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post #31 of 127
2/20/13 at 8:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Carl don't you have enough overly large speakers for your listening room smile.gif Interesting thread, subscribed.

Have you seen these? That's a pair of JBL 18's in a scoop cabinet. Ha, ha ...


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Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/20/13 at 9:54am
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post #32 of 127
2/20/13 at 9:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Is that CW1526cw Eminince woofer the best possible woofer for this unique design? I know that they are slightly expensive at like $265+ for a pair. With that being said, I would imagine that there is a much better driver out there somewhere that is more capable than the 1526 for similar or less, (or slightly more) money than the 1526. I see a lot of guys use that 1526 woofer in their Corn-Scala designs, but I have always guessed that for a Corn-Scala, there are probably better drivers out there somewhere.

There could be better drivers for this cabinet for the same or less money. I haven't looked. LTD02 might have some ideas. I invite his suggestions. My goal for the first phase of this project was to build a La Scala clone with a SEOS waveguide in place of the traditional horn. The Crites CW1526 is a popular replacement driver when people going looking for such things for their authentic Klipsch La Scalas and Belles.
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Carl Huff
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post #33 of 127
2/20/13 at 9:18am
LOL I was actually only referring to your Le Cléac'h horn, you must have a very understanding significant other.
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post #34 of 127
2/20/13 at 9:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

LOL I was actually only referring to your Le Cléac'h horn, you must have a very understanding significant other.

Yes I do! And that makes me very, very lucky. I never forget that.
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Carl Huff
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post #35 of 127
2/20/13 at 9:48am
"There could be better drivers for this cabinet for the same or less money. I haven't looked. LTD02 might have some ideas. I invite his suggestions. My goal for the first phase of this project was to build a La Scala clone with a SEOS waveguide in place of the traditional horn. The Crites CW1526 is a popular replacement driver when people going looking for such things for their authentic Klipsch La Scalas and Belles."

marty, as i noted previously, the crites/eminence/klipsch driver used in the cornscala has a fairly weak motor and very compliant (soft) suspension which gives it medium-high sensitivity and a nice big bottom end. the tradeoff is that it requires a very large cabinet in a traditional ported design, something like 8-9 cu ft. it has a pretty high xmax for that type of driver as well. for the price, it is a bargain and there aren't many drivers of its ilk being made anymore.

most drivers are optimized for much smaller cabs and higher sensitivity, so there are not a ton to choose from. i think the td15x from aespeakers would be an upgrade, but it is about double the cost. the altec 416-8c (copy from great plains audio) is kind of similar to the 1526, but it doesn't have nearly as much excursion capability which may or may not be an issue for you.

we will have to wait and see how the ported scalas turn out before we can pass judgment on which is the better way to go with the 1526, horn loaded or direct radiator.
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post #36 of 127
2/20/13 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Have you seen these? That's a pair of JBL 18's in a scoop cabinet. Ha, ha ...


_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Now that's a serious set of garage speakers there Carl! biggrin.gif

What CD did you go with? Imagine you tried a few...how about a BMS coax?
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post #37 of 127
2/20/13 at 10:25am
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Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Now that's a serious set of garage speakers there Carl! biggrin.gif

What CD did you go with? Imagine you tried a few...how about a BMS coax?

You are 'spot on' as my Brit friend would say. After trying several I settled on a pair of BMS 4590 coaxial CDs that I snagged off EBay. When I was doing research for this project I discovered that many Post Production film houses around Hollywood had upgraded their JBL 4675 systems by installing BMS coaxials. I visited a few. It turns out that the good'ol JBL 2360 horn takes on a whole new character when mated with a BMS coaxial CD.
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Carl Huff
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post #38 of 127
2/20/13 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

You are 'spot on' as my Brit friend would say. After trying several I settled on a pair of BMS 4590 coaxial CDs that I snagged off EBay. When I was doing research for this project I discovered that many Post Production film houses around Hollywood had upgraded their JBL 4675 systems by installing BMS coaxials. I visited a few. It turns out that the good'ol JBL 2360 horn takes on a whole new character when mated with a BMS coaxial CD.
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Carl Huff

Well, jolly good then!

I imagine the "new character" is an improvement? wink.gif I've never heard the stock JBL CD (well, actually I probably have in a movie theater, but wasn't aware).

Having 2 pair of 2360's, a pair of 4590's and single 4592, along with 2226J 15's (4675's bottom end), I would love to use them in my HT room but either the room is too small or the speakers are too big...or both. smile.gif

How do these things sound when seated 10' away?
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post #39 of 127
2/20/13 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Aaron,

I invite you to try your 4590s with your 2360 horns. I bet you will be pleasantly surprised. The big difference is the new 'sense of air' (for lack of better words) that you will get from your 2360s. And probably more important, they don't have the 'hot beamy quality' in close proximity. How do they sound at 10' away? Not bad, in fact much better than what I had expected. They never run out of gas, that's for sure. Poorly recorded music or dialogue seems more problematic tho. The dynamics of the 2360 + 4590 combo have the potential of punching a hole in your head. Some people would undoubtedly find them fatiguing when listening to an overzealous action film. Overall tho I find them to be an excellent combination.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/20/13 at 5:03pm
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post #40 of 127
2/20/13 at 11:56am
I've had them briefly mocked up and playing, but lack the proper cradle mounts for the 20 pound 4590 chunks. The crossover is a much larger issue as I don't have the passives (heard they aren't very good anyway) and my design skills are unproven at best, so it was tough to get any sort of gauge for what they could do with the crude setup. My testing area is also currently filled with 5 Unity cabs and large pair of line arrays, so not much room to play either. I don't really want to mess with them until I can dedicate the time to do it right...and the gigantic 2360 won't even fit behind the planned baffle wall in the HT room (cue the U15's)...some day down the road in the next house.

Wow, that's a lot of excuses! I should probably just get off my sorry ass and get them going out in the garage... biggrin.gif

Appreciate the impressions. How did you implement your crossover? (sorry for the La SEOS derail)
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post #41 of 127
2/20/13 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
"... How did you implement your crossover? ..."

I use active crossovers for pretty much all of what I do these days. Since I design and build such things I usually have a prototype lying about that I press into service.
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Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #42 of 127
2/20/13 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 
Aaron just as FYI ...

The Ebay seller 'salesbaron1' did have a bunch of JBL 2506 (adjustable metal brackets for the JBL 2360 horn) for sale at a discounted price. I bought a pair and they work well.


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Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/20/13 at 5:04pm
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post #43 of 127
2/20/13 at 2:18pm
Thanks Carl. It looks like they don't have any available currently, but I'll email them and see. What did you have to give for yours? The original plan was to have my buddy that is a custom car builder fab a set of brackets, but they'll be pretty much hidden so not much to gain by having something purdy.
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post #44 of 127
2/20/13 at 2:33pm
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"... What did you have to give for yours? ..."

Maybe $100 for the pair?? I drove down and bought some other stuff at the same time and don't remember the actual amount that I paid for the brackets.
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Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #45 of 127
2/20/13 at 5:02pm
I have no idea what you are doing, but Nice one Carl. The box looks like fun to build.
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post #46 of 127
2/20/13 at 5:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I have no idea what you are doing, but Nice one Carl. The box looks like fun to build.

Hello Dave,

Nice to see you here. My hope is that I do know what I'm doing and don't make fool of myself in the process!
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Carl Huff
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post #47 of 127
2/20/13 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Have you seen these? That's a pair of JBL 18's in a scoop cabinet. Ha, ha ...


_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff


DUDE, NICE!! I love gigantic speakers biggrin.gif
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post #48 of 127
2/20/13 at 10:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

DUDE, NICE!! I love gigantic speakers biggrin.gif

Yea, me too but I think I have hit my limit. These cabinets are very heavy and more than 7 feet tall with the horn in place. I have to remove the horn assembly to move them anywhere and at 30 inches deep by 40 inches wide they don't fit thru every door. They do pound tho!
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Carl Huff
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post #49 of 127
2/20/13 at 10:29pm
Wonder if ChopShop is considering those garage speakers as surrounds :P
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post #50 of 127
2/21/13 at 4:07am
Always liked your style Carl and love your big speakers.
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post #51 of 127
2/21/13 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Aaron,

I invite you to try your 4590s with your 2360 horns. I bet you will be pleasantly surprised. The big difference is the new 'sense of air' (for lack of better words) that you will get from your 2360s. And probably more important, they don't have the 'hot beamy quality' in close proximity. How do they sound at 10' away? Not bad, in fact much better than what I had expected. They never run out of gas, that's for sure. Poorly recorded music or dialogue seems more problematic tho. The dynamics of the 2360 + 4590 combo have the potential of punching a hole in your head. Some people would undoubtedly find them fatiguing when listening to an overzealous action film. Overall tho I find them to be an excellent combination.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Carl, are you running the BMS 4590's with the 2360 horns in a 2-way or a 3-way setup? How do you like them? Can you offer any comparisons to other speakers that you might have heard?
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post #52 of 127
2/21/13 at 9:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Carl, are you running the BMS 4590's with the 2360 horns in a 2-way or a 3-way setup? How do you like them? Can you offer any comparisons to other speakers that you might have heard?

I appreciate your compliment chrapladm. wink.gif Thank you!

These cabinets were featured in a thread on another forum ...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31407-Richard-Long-s-Waldorf-restoration

They are a modern spin on the classic Waldorf cabinet design by Richard Long of Richard Long Associates (better known as RLA) in the 70s. He originally built them for the dance club that was in the New York Waldorf Astoria Hotel. The 'Waldorf' loudspeaker as it was called become an instant success and the standard for disco dance clubs. Studio 54 was one of many such clubs featuring the RLA Waldorf System. 'Lee in Montreal' is deeply steeped in the disco dance club lore of the 70's and provided me the drawings that I worked from.

I have since liberated the crossover gear that I used with those loudspeakers but I can tell you that I had them configured as 3 way. My notes from that project tell me that I had the active crossovers set at 620Hz and 6200Hz. All crossover elements were 4rd order Linkwitz-Riley (ie: 24 dB per octave). With EQ the scoop reached 30Hz. The dynamics were overwhelming and were guaranteed to startle you if you were not prepared.

The concern expressed by many when I was building these cabs was that the frequency response would be uneven due to phase cancellation of the wave from the scoop interacting with the wave emitting from the drivers. This is a criticism of all scoop designs. Altho I could readily measure those qualities 1 meter in front of the cabinets they had all but disappeared when measured at my listening position 4 meters from the loudspeakers. The system overall was easily corrected with active EQ.

I really liked them. I cannot think of anything that I can compare them too. There size alone leaves an impression upon you! The BMS 4590s are an exceptionally good CD and perform very well in this application. I especially like these cabs when playing quality live recordings such as is the Crossroads 2010 Blu-Ray disc.
_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/21/13 at 9:42am
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post #53 of 127
2/21/13 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Wonder if ChopShop is considering those garage speakers as surrounds :P

AVS comedy biggrin.gif
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post #54 of 127
2/24/13 at 8:52am
Thread Starter 
Back to La SEOS ...

Here is a PIC of the back panel with the inner reflector attached. The reflector is simply 2 pieces of 3/4 plywood glued together with 45 degree angles applied on my cabinet saw.




Next I applied a quick coat of paint to the dog house and back panel. It's a lot easier to do now than later when the areas are visible but not accessable. The goal is to seal the wood and apply a black color. I use $3 spray cans from Lowes for this.



______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #55 of 127
2/24/13 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
I didn't get as much time as I had hoped to work on this over the weekend but I still made progress. I got the cabinet back painted and attached. I also routed the openings top and bottom of the dog house and mounted the driver.



I also got in a little paint time. For the visible and exposed surfaces I use 'Campbell MagnaClaw'. Altho it's described as an industrial grade primer, I apply it with a roller and get a low gloss mildly textured finish. Two applications on raw wood usually does it. The resulting finish is tough and can be sanded (should you need to) within an hour after being applied. Touch-up is easy.




Hopefully next weekend I can make some baseline measurements of the lower cab.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/24/13 at 4:00pm
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post #56 of 127
2/24/13 at 5:44pm
Subscribed.

JSS
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post #57 of 127
2/25/13 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 
A Little La Scala History ...

The original AES paper as offered up by Paul Klipsch back in April 1965 describing the La Scala is here ...

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/898769/LaScala%20AES%20Pre-print.pdf

In a 1989 interview that was published in the April issue of Speaker Builder magazine Paul Klipsch said that he invented the La Scala after attending an outdoor concert where they had a poor and inadequate sound system. He went on to say that he had always thought of the La Scala as one of his more euphonic creations and was obviously quite proud of it.

The La Scala started production in 1963 and remained essentially unchanged right up until 2006. It is still available by special order from Klipsch today. http://www.klipsch.com/la-scala-ii-floorstanding-speaker

A licensed variation of the La Scala is available from John Allen for use in Commercial Cinemas as his HPS 525.
The details are here ... http://www.hps4000.com/pages/525_.html
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Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #58 of 127
2/25/13 at 9:24pm
I would love to hear this up next to a Jubscala... looks like fun!
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post #59 of 127
2/28/13 at 11:08am
If you don't mind, I would love to check out your speakers once you're done! I'm a Bakersfielder as well...
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post #60 of 127
2/28/13 at 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbo View Post

If you don't mind, I would love to check out your speakers once you're done! I'm a Bakersfielder as well...

Great! I've got some other stuff you might be interested in as well. I will 'pm you' when these are up and running to offer up an official invite.
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Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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