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JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 9

post #241 of 536
Just read this whole thread, and needless to say, it's got me intrigued. I'm glad I received my Phil2s this week otherwise I would've been tempted to spring for the 228s for a LCR setup. When I started my search for new speakers, I in home auditioned the B&W 683, PSB T6, then tried CM9 and Imagine T, then Gallo and EMP and I finally ended with the Phil 2s, which I like more than I even imagined. But my curiosity is highly piqued by these high sensitivity designs.

I have a pair of Tekton M-Lores being delivered on Tuesday (and plan to audition the KEF LS50 which not similar w/ respect to sensitivity, I know), as I have now begun the process of finding a two channel setup. I have yet to see measurements on the Tektons and it doesn't seem that Eric is anywhere near as highly regarded as Jeff or Mark with respect to sound (no pun intended) speaker design/engineering concepts. I'm thinking of getting the OmniMic to measure these M-Lores.

How would the 228s sound for a dedicated 2 channel system? Does JTR offer anything comparable but smaller for a medium to small-sized room? Any plans for a Noesis 8HT?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #242 of 536
The 228HT is the smallest in the Noesis series of speakers. It would work perfectly fine in small or medium sized rooms. Are you sure you're not confusing the 228HT with the 212HT?
post #243 of 536
Thread Starter 
Two channel dedicated enthusiasts typically do not use a sub and run speakers full range. That type of listening is NOT the design of the JTR. They are designed to be run with a subwoofer. Just to make sure we are on the same page.

Smallroom, yes or huge room! smile.gif The 228ht play clean at double reference volumes(+6dB) on a standard THX rated mid tier AVR (due to high sensitivity) and are capable of more on a pro amp!(due to their high power handling) People use the triple eights for DJ use, the 228ht are spec'ed out the same. They sound great at both low and high volumes.
Edited by Archaea - 3/17/13 at 6:23am
post #244 of 536
I should've said 2.1 channel room. I plan on getting a sealed sub for my 2 channel room. Thanks for the review Archaea. I've enjoyed reading your detailed reviews from the various GTGs.

Jbrown, I was thinking more along the lines of a new Noesis Single 8 (which they don't make) similar to the 8HT. But it looks like the 228 is only a couple hundred dollars more than the 8HT.
post #245 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

I should've said 2.1 channel room. I plan on getting a sealed sub for my 2 channel room. Thanks for the review Archaea. I've enjoyed reading your detailed reviews from the various GTGs.

Jbrown, I was thinking more along the lines of a new Noesis Single 8 (which they don't make) similar to the 8HT. But it looks like the 228 is only a couple hundred dollars more than the 8HT.

I think the JTR's sound awesome for 2.1 channel listening. The best I have ever heard, and I don't even have my Noesis yet.

The Noesis 228HT's and a Captivator S1 or S2 would be a phenomenal system. However, if I had both Phil2's and JTR's I would probably switch the systems and use the Noesis for movies. This is not because I think the Phil2's sound bad, I have never heard them, but their semi open baffle design sounds like it would excel for music and the controlled directivity and efficiency of Noesis would be phenomenal for movies.
post #246 of 536
Subscribed *
post #247 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Two channel dedicated enthusiasts typically do not use a sub and run speakers full range. That type of listening is NOT the design of the JTR. They are designed to be run with a subwoofer. Just to make sure we are on the same page.

Smallroom, yes or huge room! smile.gif The 228ht play clean at double reference volumes(+6dB) on a standard THX rated mid tier AVR (due to high sensitivity) and are capable of more on a pro amp!(due to their high power handling) People use the triple eights for DJ use, the 228ht are spec'ed out the same. They sound great at both low and high volumes.
Is it dangerous? Most AVR support speakers having impedance of 6-8 ohm. JTR is rated at 4 ohm. Any risk of damaging the AVR (example Denon 3312) when playing at reference level?
post #248 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Is it dangerous? Most AVR support speakers having impedance of 6-8 ohm. JTR is rated at 4 ohm. Any risk of damaging the AVR (example Denon 3312) when playing at reference level?

Not a JTR expert/owner, but I don't think so. Crossed over to subs at 80Hz or above, JTR's don't require a lot of voltage to be swung into that low impedance load to generate reference SPL's. See responses to post 97 a few pages back, including Archaea's excellent video. THX certified AVR's are effectively rated for 4ohm loads AFAIK.
post #249 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Is it dangerous? Most AVR support speakers having impedance of 6-8 ohm. JTR is rated at 4 ohm. Any risk of damaging the AVR (example Denon 3312) when playing at reference level?

No problem at all. I also powered my Magnepan's with my receiver back when I had them and had no problems with them either and they are very low sensitivity.
post #250 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

No problem at all. I also powered my Magnepan's with my receiver back when I had them and had no problems with them either and they are very low sensitivity.

Were your Maggies low impedance speakers also or just low sensitivity?
post #251 of 536
Both. Pretty much all the floorstanding mags are 86db/2.83v and 4ohms.
post #252 of 536
I wonder about that sensitivity rating, when I bought the eD's going from the Maggies I had to turn down the individual speaker volume 17db's! The eD's are rated at 97 I believe. So it could be a bit of both, eD rating is conservative and Magnepan exaggerating a bit.

With the Noesis I turned down the speakers 3 db to match where the eD's were, so a full 20 db from the Maggies. I can't even calibrate to reference using a receiver, reference for me is mains at -12 (as low as they go) and master volume at -1.5.
post #253 of 536
Could be. That Magnepan rating is really like 83dB for 1 watt since it is 86dB/2.83v at 4ohms which is 2 watts. The Noesis are 101dB at 1 watt so there is an 18dB difference in sensitivity. I also wouldn't trust the dB rating on your volume control too much.

That's why you see so many Magnepan owners advocating high power amps. I wouldn't want to run mine with anything less than 400wpc into 4 ohms. The amp I have on my 3.7's is 600wpc into 4ohms. I have no problem getting those as loud as I'd like for music.
Edited by mrlittlejeans - 3/18/13 at 9:29am
post #254 of 536
Carp, you should set all your speakers to 80 dBs rather than 75 dBs to make sure they are correct. Then your reference will be -5 dBs on the MV. Who knows, maybe you need to go to 85 dBs and set reference to -10 on the MV. When I see a -12 dB setting it usually is even lower than that and will not be balanced correctly. I still can't see a AVR powering maggies to any real volume, not only due to the lack of power for the very low sensisity(83 dBs) but also the 4 ohm load required as well. I used to shut down my 100 watt per channel reciever with my JBL's. 103 dB sensitive but 4 ohms. It happened on WOTW and FOTP and I had them crossed at 80hz.
post #255 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Carp, you should set all your speakers to 80 dBs rather than 75 dBs to make sure they are correct. Then your reference will be -5 dBs on the MV. Who knows, maybe you need to go to 85 dBs and set reference to -10 on the MV. When I see a -12 dB setting it usually is even lower than that and will not be balanced correctly. I still can't see a AVR powering maggies to any real volume, not only due to the lack of power for the very low sensisity(83 dBs) but also the 4 ohm load required as well. I used to shut down my 100 watt per channel reciever with my JBL's. 103 dB sensitive but 4 ohms. It happened on WOTW and FOTP and I had them crossed at 80hz.

Yeah, I've read that there can be issues setting the speaker volumes at -12 but I use the meter not Audyssey. However, I do really like your idea and can't believe I didn't think of it (heh, well actually I can believe it). It would be much easier to bump up the individual speakers by 8.5 db's and then have -10 be reference - it bugs me that -1.5 is reference now. I'm a fan of nice even numbers. Thanks man.
post #256 of 536
How do you guys think these Pi Four speakers would compare to the Noesis 228s? They are both roughly in the same price range and both high sensitivity speakers, with the Pi speakers at 98 dB sensitivity.
post #257 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

How do you guys think these Pi Four speakers would compare to the Noesis 228s? They are both roughly in the same price range and both high sensitivity speakers, with the Pi speakers at 98 dB sensitivity.

Well, I have not heard either but I will go out on a limb and give my opinion anyways. I have owned the T8's(I still have one) and the eD upgraded cinema speaker. I am very familiar with the JBL woofer in the Pi speaker. So if you opted for the best Pi options(DE 250 and JBL woofer) I have owned both of those. My eD speaker had the DE-250 and a great eminence woofer in the 3012HO. Comparing the T8 with the upgraded eD I like the T8's coax better than the DE-250 but like the midbass on that 3012HO better than the dual 8's on the T8's. The 228 has an even better CD and horn than the coax so I would think the highs would be better on the 228's. However, the JBL 2226 is even better than the 3012HO and I still have not heard a better midbass. So the PI would have awesome midbass but the 228 would have awesome highs. They both still would have great highs and midbass. I am just nitpicking here. The T8's and JTR speakers are built very well and very heavy for a compact speaker(T8).
post #258 of 536
Thanks for the reply. I like the idea of the coax on the JTR speakers, but the Pi speakers look like a really kick a$$ version of Cornwalls. I wonder how they would compare to the Geddes Abbey or Nathan, those Geddes speakers are looking damn sexy.
post #259 of 536
I believe that I am going with 3 212HT's. I would like to know would the 228 pair well with the 212s for a center.
post #260 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Thanks for the reply. I like the idea of the coax on the JTR speakers, but the Pi speakers look like a really kick a$$ version of Cornwalls. I wonder how they would compare to the Geddes Abbey or Nathan, those Geddes speakers are looking damn sexy.

I have heard great things about the Geddes speakers and I have heard great things about the La Scalas. Everyone likes different things and we pick things based on our preferences. I have heard certain speakers do great things but never a speaker do it all yet. If I had a choice of a speaker it would be a creation of this:

Detail, dynamics, and live sound of the BFM DR-250's
Midbass of the JBL Dual 2226's of the 4675c-lf's
Tone of the Triads or maggies.

Now adding a T-48 to a DR-250 gets me almost there but I would still want that tone or smoothness of the Triads or maggies. This is where the maybe the ribbons come into play on the DR's? You still need to add the bottoms for more midbass though which requires more wires and active dsp. So I guess I have not heard a passive speaker do it all yet. There are only two speakers that have the midbass I have heard and neither had the best top end or a complete speaker.
post #261 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have heard great things about the Geddes speakers and I have heard great things about the La Scalas. Everyone likes different things and we pick things based on our preferences. I have heard certain speakers do great things but never a speaker do it all yet. If I had a choice of a speaker it would be a creation of this:

Detail, dynamics, and live sound of the BFM DR-250's
Midbass of the JBL Dual 2226's of the 4675c-lf's
Tone of the Triads or maggies.

Now adding a T-48 to a DR-250 gets me almost there but I would still want that tone or smoothness of the Triads or maggies. This is where the maybe the ribbons come into play on the DR's? You still need to add the bottoms for more midbass though which requires more wires and active dsp. So I guess I have not heard a passive speaker do it all yet. There are only two speakers that have the midbass I have heard and neither had the best top end or a complete speaker.

Sounds like you might like a nice beefy line array like the GR Research arrays, have you considered going that route?
post #262 of 536
I have line arrays now(with subs integrated for midbass), Love them. I still would bet the arrays will not have the midbass of the JBL's or a horn loaded 15 from BFM.
post #263 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I believe that I am going with 3 212HT's. I would like to know would the 228 pair well with the 212s for a center.

Reef, you're probably best to just send Jeff an email and ask him this question. jeff@jtrspeakers.com
post #264 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I believe that I am going with 3 212HT's. I would like to know would the 228 pair well with the 212s for a center.

NICE!! I haven't seen someone posting that they are buying the big boys in awhile. You won't be disappointed.

I haven't heard the 228's as a center, when we compared we only had 228 mains. Ask Archaea what he thinks about that idea, he has all 3 228's now.
post #265 of 536
Thread Starter 
And haven't had much chance at at all to listen to the full set yet! Not even a single movie!
post #266 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I believe that I am going with 3 212HT's. I would like to know would the 228 pair well with the 212s for a center.
Yes it will. The ideal situation would be 3 212s. If thats not possible then the 228 as a center would be the next best option and would sound great.
Chris
post #267 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

And haven't had much chance at at all to listen to the full set yet! Not even a single movie!
Hopefully, I get a chance watch a movie or two with them this weekend. I will not be able to compare them with the 212's but I will at least be able to do some non-blind AB testing of them and the T8's with the same amplifiers and Audyssey turned off. Now I wonder if my pre/pro will let me keep the sub on for zone 2 so I could go back and forth in a roughly equal setting.
post #268 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


Yes it will. The ideal situation would be 3 212s. If thats not possible then the 228 as a center would be the next best option and would sound great.
Chris
3 really would not be possible with my set up, but, things could be done! I would much rather keep things the same and just pair a 228 for the center.
post #269 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

3 really would not be possible with my set up, but, things could be done! I would much rather keep things the same and just pair a 228 for the center.

Reefdvr27, is it a height problem with the horiz centre channel? Have you considered 212HT-LP's? It will be the width of the slot ports "shorter". (edit: 3 inches?)
Edited by GIEGAR - 3/20/13 at 7:11pm
post #270 of 536
My 228's are at FedEx. biggrin.gif If I get off work in time I can pick them up tonight and get them setup tomorrow for some brief AB testing before putting the Triple 8's in storage until I can get them installed as surrounds in a couple of weeks.
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