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JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 2

post #31 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post






Man, looks like Jeff is going to get slammed with orders for the 228's. Nobody wants the 212's? Come on, step it up people!! tongue.gif
.

The 212's wouldn't quite fit, plus, if we are going to get something that is nearly as good for movies for less than half the price, how can we pass it up. If I had more time to listen to music, however, I might modify my stands and save up for the big boys. I am sure I will still be jealous of you guys with the ultimate speaker.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #32 of 536
Do you guys that have heard both the 212 and 228 Noesis feel that they are voiced pretty similarly? The reason I ask is that while considering a 228 LCR set, I got to wondering if my system, which will be nearly 100% for movies, would benefit from having a 212 as the center channel and 228's for left and right. Are the woofers that Jeff uses sourced from the same company for both models? I would assume that since both compression drivers are BMS that the treble would be seamless enough in this configuration.

Thanks is advance for any help. I've really enjoyed reading through all of the comparisons from you guys and wish I was closer geographically so I could join in the fun!
post #33 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post






Man, looks like Jeff is going to get slammed with orders for the 228's. Nobody wants the 212's? Come on, step it up people!! tongue.gif

Mark, aren't those 804's you are replacing really expensive? Are you a music guy or just movies? I think you might be perfect for the big 212 Noesis.

I would love to get the 212HTs but compared to the intro price of the 228HTs it would cost me 4 grand more to get them for my LCRs, and that's just hard to stomach when they are only used for movies.
post #34 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Do you guys that have heard both the 212 and 228 Noesis feel that they are voiced pretty similarly? The reason I ask is that while considering a 228 LCR set, I got to wondering if my system, which will be nearly 100% for movies, would benefit from having a 212 as the center channel and 228's for left and right. Are the woofers that Jeff uses sourced from the same company for both models? I would assume that since both compression drivers are BMS that the treble would be seamless enough in this configuration.

Thanks is advance for any help. I've really enjoyed reading through all of the comparisons from you guys and wish I was closer geographically so I could join in the fun!

They are voiced similarly IMO. Still for the the sound of the 212's compression driver... I can't put it into words. It's the only speaker I've ever heard where the highs sound "powerful", that's probably not the right word for it. The best thing I can say about it is when I turn on the system I have a real hard time turning it off. The 212's just do it for me, I think even more than the other KC guys. It was clear to me yesterday that I thought that there was a wider gap between the 228's and the 212's than they did IMO.

The 228's, like I said though, are similar - and I bet for movies your idea would work however I have a feeling the bigger variable will be if you have an AT screen and can place the center vertical. I'm too afraid to try it because I know I'm going to like a vertical center so much that I'm going to want to get going on a false wall right away and I don't want to mess with that right now.

I don't know if the woofers are the same company or not.

How big is your room? I ask because my room is 17 wide 23 deep and the 228's filled it with no problem. With all this praise I'm giving the 212's aside, if I were 100 percent movies I would buy the 228's - at least I'm pretty sure I would. We didn't watch a whole lot of clips, as usual music dominated the day.

I will say this though, we didn't go nuts with the volume like we (errrr I) usually do so I don't know how the 228's handle crazy db levels that the 212's laugh at. And since I love what the 212's do for music so much, I dont' regret for a second buying the big boys. Someone asked me Sat. if I have any regrets about spending this much on my front 3 and my answer is no without hesitation but most of that is due to the fact that I knew going in that I would listen to music A TON with these. Hell, a few years ago when I had Axioms that I could stand but couldn't change due to financial reasons I STILL listened to music all the time on them. Ha, I spent most of my time trying to tweak to get them sounding good, but still... I was listening. My first love (still is ) was simply the music itself and over the years it's morphed into a love of the gear as well, or at least a love of the search for the right gear.

So I knew I would get my money's worth over the years. I'm never giving these speakers up until I find something better and I just don't know if that's going to happen. I used to feel motivated to demo speakers because I wanted to find that perfect for me sound that I loved, well now that I have that I still want to demo speakers but now it's just because I like this hobby and it's fun hearing new gear. Now, if I stumble upon something I like better and can afford it, I'll be all over it but that's not the motivation anymore.

Ok, enough rambling. I don't think there was an answer to your question in any of that incoherent mess of a reply. I'm reminded of the scene in Billy Madison... "we are all dumber for hearing your answer and may god have mercy on your soul." biggrin.gif
post #35 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

They are voiced similarly IMO. Still for the the sound of the 212's compression driver... I can't put it into words. It's the only speaker I've ever heard where the highs sound "powerful", that's probably not the right word for it. The best thing I can say about it is when I turn on the system I have a real hard time turning it off. The 212's just do it for me, I think even more than the other KC guys. It was clear to me yesterday that I thought that there was a wider gap between the 228's and the 212's than they did IMO.

The 228's, like I said though, are similar - and I bet for movies your idea would work however I have a feeling the bigger variable will be if you have an AT screen and can place the center vertical. I'm too afraid to try it because I know I'm going to like a vertical center so much that I'm going to want to get going on a false wall right away and I don't want to mess with that right now.

I don't know if the woofers are the same company or not.

How big is your room? I ask because my room is 17 wide 23 deep and the 228's filled it with no problem. With all this praise I'm giving the 212's aside, if I were 100 percent movies I would buy the 228's - at least I'm pretty sure I would. We didn't watch a whole lot of clips, as usual music dominated the day.

I will say this though, we didn't go nuts with the volume like we (errrr I) usually do so I don't know how the 228's handle crazy db levels that the 212's laugh at. And since I love what the 212's do for music so much, I dont' regret for a second buying the big boys. Someone asked me Sat. if I have any regrets about spending this much on my front 3 and my answer is no without hesitation but most of that is due to the fact that I knew going in that I would listen to music A TON with these. Hell, a few years ago when I had Axioms that I could stand but couldn't change due to financial reasons I STILL listened to music all the time on them. Ha, I spent most of my time trying to tweak to get them sounding good, but still... I was listening. My first love (still is ) was simply the music itself and over the years it's morphed into a love of the gear as well, or at least a love of the search for the right gear.

So I knew I would get my money's worth over the years. I'm never giving these speakers up until I find something better and I just don't know if that's going to happen. I used to feel motivated to demo speakers because I wanted to find that perfect for me sound that I loved, well now that I have that I still want to demo speakers but now it's just because I like this hobby and it's fun hearing new gear. Now, if I stumble upon something I like better and can afford it, I'll be all over it but that's not the motivation anymore.

Ok, enough rambling. I don't think there was an answer to your question in any of that incoherent mess of a reply. I'm reminded of the scene in Billy Madison... "we are all dumber for hearing your answer and may god have mercy on your soul." biggrin.gif

Carp,

Thanks for the extended and thoughtful response. My room is 16*19, so a little smaller than yours. I'm moving into a new house and hadn't thought of upgrading my LCR's until seeing the crazy intro price and reading the good feedback from you guys. Three 212's are out of reach for me at this time as there are just too many expenses and honestly if I was going to spend $6500 on my front three I might consider spending a little more and getting the Catalysts or some Danley configuration. I currently have a Linn AV5140/5120 for my LCR. They are very nice sounding, but are clearly not capable of the effortless output of the JTR's. I guess if went with the 228's, I could always upgrade and use them as surrounds. What surrounds have you guys found to be a good match with JTR? I will be running Trinnov from the Sherwood 972 and am worried about running into calibration issues from the high sensitivity of the JTR's.

Thanks again,
Matt
post #36 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Carp,

Thanks for the extended and thoughtful response. My room is 16*19, so a little smaller than yours. I'm moving into a new house and hadn't thought of upgrading my LCR's until seeing the crazy intro price and reading the good feedback from you guys. Three 212's are out of reach for me at this time as there are just too many expenses and honestly if I was going to spend $6500 on my front three I might consider spending a little more and getting the Catalysts or some Danley configuration. I currently have a Linn AV5140/5120 for my LCR. They are very nice sounding, but are clearly not capable of the effortless output of the JTR's. I guess if went with the 228's, I could always upgrade and use them as surrounds. What surrounds have you guys found to be a good match with JTR? I will be running Trinnov from the Sherwood 972 and am worried about running into calibration issues from the high sensitivity of the JTR's.

Thanks again,
Matt

I use elemental designs cinema 6's for my surrounds. They work well for movies IMO, eve though they are small they have decent dynamic capabilities. Also with movies I don't notice as much the difference in sound. However, when I do listen to multi chanel music it becomes obvious that they aren't a match and those are the times when I think about getting some JTR's to replace them. What is the sensitivity of the Linn speakers? I would think you would be ok running them as surrounds. My surrounds are 8 feet away, main speakers are 13 feet away (I think the surrounds are rated for 93 sensitivity), and I have to run them 7 db's hotter to level match and it works out fine... for now.
post #37 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Three 212's are out of reach for me at this time as there are just too many expenses and honestly if I was going to spend $6500 on my front three I might consider spending a little more and getting the Catalysts or some Danley configuration.

Having heard your higher priced alternatives, I can say that spending more would not guarantee better performance. Simply put, the Noesis 212's are at the top of the HT audio food chain.
post #38 of 536
Congrats on getting a pair of JTR Noesis speakers to call your own, Jonathan! I am happy for you, and I think we'd all agree it is long overdo. smile.gif
post #39 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Having heard your higher priced alternatives, I can say that spending more would not guarantee better performance. Simply put, the Noesis 212's are at the top of the HT audio food chain.

Appreciate the feedback RMK as I really respect your experience and have followed along with your journey from the Revels, JL's, SPUDS, etc. As I mentioned in the Sony 50ES thread, I'm looking for to hearing your thoughts on that as well as that is the projector I most likely will be going with.

Is the 60*40 degree horn of the Noesis appropriate for all installs? Back when the Danley threads were active it seemed to be recommended to match the dispersion pattern of the horn with the appropriate room and speaker placement. Has this been a concern for any of you with your Noesis placement?
post #40 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Appreciate the feedback RMK as I really respect your experience and have followed along with your journey from the Revels, JL's, SPUDS, etc. As I mentioned in the Sony 50ES thread, I'm looking for to hearing your thoughts on that as well as that is the projector I most likely will be going with.

Is the 60*40 degree horn of the Noesis appropriate for all installs? Back when the Danley threads were active it seemed to be recommended to match the dispersion pattern of the horn with the appropriate room and speaker placement. Has this been a concern for any of you with your Noesis placement?

Hi Matt,

Yeah, I've got plenty of experience mostly trial and error ... tongue.gifwink.gif

I'm looking forward to getting the 50ES (Friday) and will post my impressions. Based upon the reviews it seems like a no-brainer.

Jeff posted this diagram showing the Noesis dispersion pattern. As you can see, most rooms, speaker placements and seating locations will fit this pattern with no issues. Mine certainly does and the "sweet spot" of the Noesis is larger and deeper than most speakers. smile.gif


Edited by RMK! - 2/19/13 at 10:55am
post #41 of 536
I am looking for two surrounds for my HT. Since I dont have to tone and timber match (correct me if I am wrong) then I can use anything I want... Tad bit of over kill..but what do you guys thing of a pair of these? I want to wall / ceiling mount them somehow to keep them out of the way though.

Still may go with Phil Monitors but they are not easily mounted...those are probably over kill too.
post #42 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Not sure, but he bought them in May (or around then) of 2012 if I remember right soon after he bought my Caps.

Another way I would describe the difference between the 2, the 228's have a "lush" sound to them that the 888's don't. Lush? Is that what I mean to say? Looks stupid now that I've typed it but it made sense in my head. tongue.gifsmile.gif

Using flowery words like "lush" soon you will be able to write those professional reviews. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #43 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Matt,

Yeah, I've got plenty of experience mostly trial and error ... tongue.gifwink.gif

I'm looking forward to getting the 50ES (Friday) and will post my impressions. Based upon the reviews it seems like a no-brainer.

Jeff posted this diagram showing the Noesis dispersion pattern. As you can see, most rooms, speaker placements and seating locations will fit this pattern with no issues. Mine certainly does and the "sweet spot" of the Noesis is larger and deeper than most speakers. smile.gif


Thanks RMK, looks like I would be fine in my rectangular room.
post #44 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

I am looking for two surrounds for my HT. Since I dont have to tone and timber match (correct me if I am wrong) then I can use anything I want... Tad bit of over kill..but what do you guys thing of a pair of these? I want to wall / ceiling mount them somehow to keep them out of the way though.

Still may go with Phil Monitors but they are not easily mounted...those are probably over kill too.

Overkill perhaps but the main issue is the 228's rather narrow dispersion pattern and with a "normal" proximity of surrounds they would not work. If you have a very wide or deep room then maybe but again, they were not designed to be surrounds. The Single/Slanted 8's are much better suited to that purpose.

That said, I bet they would give your Phil 2's a run for their money for both music and HT ... smile.gif
post #45 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Using flowery words like "lush" soon you will be able to write those professional reviews. smile.gif

Aww crap you're right they do use words like that. If I do it again I'm going to have to kick my own a$$. mad.gifsmile.gif
post #46 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Having heard your higher priced alternatives, I can say that spending more would not guarantee better performance. Simply put, the Noesis 212's are at the top of the HT audio food chain.

just to confirm, does this mean that you've tried the Danley SH50s?
post #47 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Aww crap you're right they do use words like that. If I do it again I'm going to have to kick my own a$$. mad.gifsmile.gif

Carp, hope you were using some 100% pure silver speaker cables that cost at least $1000. No way regular old copper could ever sound "lush" tongue.gif
Edited by Frohlich - 2/19/13 at 12:32pm
post #48 of 536
HAHAHAHA ^^^^^^^ I probably laughed at that more then I should have. biggrin.gif
post #49 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

just to confirm, does this mean that you've tried the Danley SH50s?

Nope, the SH95 (the SH50's little brother) and a couple of the SM models (96 and 60 I believe). A friend heard the SH50's and gave me a fairly detailed report. I am a fan of the Danley and Seaton products in general (as is Jeff smile.gif ) but have sort of settled on JTR as the best SQ and value for my application. YMMV smile.gif
post #50 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Nope, the SH95 (the SH50's little brother) and a couple of the SM models (96 and 60 I believe). A friend heard the SH50's and gave me a fairly detailed report. I am a fan of the Danley and Seaton products in general (as is Jeff smile.gif ) but have sort of settled on JTR as the best SQ and value for my application. YMMV smile.gif
Thanks for that, for a moment there i thought you said you've tried them all hah, and the 212 is the top bar none.

I've always wanted the SH50, because i'm still in awe over the yorkville unity horns i have, they have my jtr quintuple and triple 8's beat, 2011 and 2010 models. that and they are cheap.

want to figure out how the sh50 compared to the 212ht, because those 2 are in my list of possible upgrades in the future. The unity/synergy concept is very nice, but the 212 has that massive compression driver in there that gives it a big advantage over all the smaller compression drivers.
post #51 of 536
I have 2011 vented 888-HT's for LCR and the low profile single-8's for surrounds. If anything I have a pretty dead dedicated theater room, sealed and soundproofed. These are exclusively for movies. My room is roughly 16' wide, 25' deep, 10' high. If I remember correctly, the 888's are 90 degree conical dispersion, so these new 228HT speakers are significantly tighter. In a relatively dead room, could I expect any advantages with these? It sounds like the main difference based on one contributor's experience is subjectively better treble performance. The only reason I'd buy in would be to repurpose my 888's as wides or heights, and I'd have to upgrade the receiver as well.
post #52 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

Thanks for that, for a moment there i thought you said you've tried them all hah, and the 212 is the top bar none.

I've always wanted the SH50, because i'm still in awe over the yorkville unity horns i have, they have my jtr quintuple and triple 8's beat, 2011 and 2010 models. that and they are cheap.

want to figure out how the sh50 compared to the 212ht, because those 2 are in my list of possible upgrades in the future. The unity/synergy concept is very nice, but the 212 has that massive compression driver in there that gives it a big advantage over all the smaller compression drivers.

Yes, it is all about that BMS CD in the 212. Haven't heard the 228 (since there is only one pair in existence tongue.gif) so no comment but I hold the 2012 Triples in pretty high esteem.. They sport a very nice BMS CD of their own.wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

I have 2011 vented 888-HT's for LCR and the low profile single-8's for surrounds. If anything I have a pretty dead dedicated theater room, sealed and soundproofed. These are exclusively for movies. My room is roughly 16' wide, 25' deep, 10' high. If I remember correctly, the 888's are 90 degree conical dispersion, so these new 228HT speakers are significantly tighter. In a relatively dead room, could I expect any advantages with these? It sounds like the main difference based on one contributor's experience is subjectively better treble performance. The only reason I'd buy in would be to repurpose my 888's as wides or heights, and I'd have to upgrade the receiver as well.

The old axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. smile.gif
post #53 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Matt,

Yeah, I've got plenty of experience mostly trial and error ... tongue.gifwink.gif

I'm looking forward to getting the 50ES (Friday) and will post my impressions. Based upon the reviews it seems like a no-brainer.

Jeff posted this diagram showing the Noesis dispersion pattern. As you can see, most rooms, speaker placements and seating locations will fit this pattern with no issues. Mine certainly does and the "sweet spot" of the Noesis is larger and deeper than most speakers. smile.gif


Thank you for posting this. I had been meaning to find this diagram and either measure or do the math. I was mainly worried about the center channel reaching all the seats. I finally did the math and it will cover them, but there will not be a lot of room to spare in my wider than long room.
post #54 of 536
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Nope, the SH95 (the SH50's little brother) and a couple of the SM models (96 and 60 I believe). A friend heard the SH50's and gave me a fairly detailed report. I am a fan of the Danley and Seaton products in general (as is Jeff smile.gif ) but have sort of settled on JTR as the best SQ and value for my application. YMMV smile.gif
Thanks for that, for a moment there i thought you said you've tried them all hah, and the 212 is the top bar none.

I've always wanted the SH50, because i'm still in awe over the yorkville unity horns i have, they have my jtr quintuple and triple 8's beat, 2011 and 2010 models. that and they are cheap.

want to figure out how the sh50 compared to the 212ht, because those 2 are in my list of possible upgrades in the future. The unity/synergy concept is very nice, but the 212 has that massive compression driver in there that gives it a big advantage over all the smaller compression drivers.

Out of curiosity which yorkville unity horns do you have an like? I've never heard a yorkville speaker.
post #55 of 536
I had some forum members over to check out the T8's and S2. It was fun to finally show off my system to some fellow gearheads. We will definitely have some sort of get together to compare T8's to the 228's. Maybe there are some more southern Californians who would like to audition these speaker who will show up. My guess, is that I won't have the speakers until late march at the earliest, so It will probably be April by the time it is scheduled.
post #56 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

I had some forum members over to check out the T8's and S2. It was fun to finally show off my system to some fellow gearheads. We will definitely have some sort of get together to compare T8's to the 228's. Maybe there are some more southern Californians who would like to audition these speaker who will show up. My guess, is that I won't have the speakers until late march at the earliest, so It will probably be April by the time it is scheduled.

Many thanks to Jedirun for auditioning his system

GREAT sound and media room which will be fantastic when the 228HTs arrive (and theT8's are used as surrounds)

His S2 is incredible
post #57 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Out of curiosity which yorkville unity horns do you have an like? I've never heard a yorkville speaker.

currently U215s for L/R
have a U15 coming for center, since that would work for me.
i upgraded from T8's and Quintuples
It might very well be the fact that the Unity's have a nice horn. It uses the 4550 compression driver that is also in the Danley Synergy series speakers.
Flanking the U215s are a set of LS6 for music.
post #58 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I personally like having a single thread, like the JTR Speaker thread, for all of the discussion about a certain company's products. It has been very easy to keep up with all the JTR Speakers by following the single thread. There is also a lot of discussion common to all speakers that owner's like to participate in such as placement, toe-in, surrounds, equipment, and who is having kids. I don't even own JTR products, but enjoy the daily updates/discussion in the thread.

Agreed. I think someone was a little excited when he decided to make this thread. smile.gif Can you imagine if someone made a thread for every time a manufacturer released a new speaker? Things would just be chaotic and a real mess. This thread should be merged with the main JTR one, especially with a ridiculous title touting a speaker to be "the best" even though this hobby is highly subjective. Not only that, but he finds it necessary to compare two completely different speakers than what this thread is about in the original post; two manufacturers that don't even compete with each other due to different design trade-offs. It gives the impression that someone has an agenda... Is Archaea now working for JTR? If so congrats, but you should put something in your signature. And you probably shouldn't be starting threads and advertising prices. I'm a Salk and Revel fanboy, but I don't start threads every time they release a new product giving price info and claiming they are the best speakers you haven't yet heard. rolleyes.gif The main JTR thread has over 7000 posts and 450,000 views. It's not like no one sees it or it's dying. Just sayin'. wink.gif

-=Flame suit engaged=- (I know RMK won't be able to resist smile.gif) I mean no disrespect, by the way. Jeff is a great designer.
post #59 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Agreed. I think someone was a little excited when he decided to make this thread. smile.gif Can you imagine if every manufacturer had someone make a thread for every speaker they've released? Things would just be chaotic and a real mess. This thread should be merged with the main JTR one, especially with a ridiculous title touting a speaker to be "the best" even though this hobby is highly subjective. It makes it appear that Archaea is working for JTR.

I'm flaming away!!! That sounds really.... haha, you know what.

Actually Archaea did do a generic title of the thread at first and I suggested to him that he should change it to something more specific so you can blame me. smile.gif My thinking was for people that do searches at a specific price point, so I think the title serves it's purpose and is not in the least bit ridiculous. I doubt someone looking for speakers at around 1000 each who has never heard of JTR would just click on the JTR speaker thread and start wading his way through it just out of curiosity. I guess I'm not as concerned that the speaker section remains all neat and tidy. In fact, that whole kind of thinking is weird to me. I don't think I've ever seen a thread and thought, "whoa, hold on... that thread shouldn't exist."

Also, he didn't claim it was the "best", just said the best that you have never heard of. The words "best" and "1000" are very likely to come up in searches. The thread will soon enough fall off first page and then only be accessible through searches for most people.

Speaking for myself I am a huge fan of the Noesis speakers, and consider myself more of a fan boy of individual products that companies. I still think the Submersive is the best sounding commercial sub available, so I guess I'm a fan boy of the Noesis and the Submersive. I wasn't crazy about the 888's, so it's not a blind loyalty to a company.

On the flip side though, I do want JTR to succeed and be around for a LONG time for selfish reasons, I want to be able to buy JTR gear for years to come if need be.

Now, if I hear speakers that I like better I'll make the switch and be all over the forums about it.
post #60 of 536
I thought it was $999...was there a price increase to $1000 tongue.gif
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint.