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JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 15

post #421 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Desired output is very relative.
For us bass hounds no 1000$ commercial sub I've run across would suit my output preference, nor likely would a pair even in a medium sized room like my 3500 cubic foot room. I know this preference after hosting two subwoofer meets in my room and attending a dozen more meets in the last couple years.

The op said he wanted tiny form factor and high output. Hence my reply there is nothing better than s1 outside of DIY.


In the world of commercial or internet direct subwoofers:
small size, massive spl, low cost

Choose two...

Archaea, do you know the actually output numbers of the S1? I'm very curious because that was the one sub that I was very very close to buying before deciding on dual PSA XS30's.

I would have to believe that my dual XS30's would have more output then a single Cap S1 though, but I'm just not sure. I know what the XS30's are capable of for output numbers but I'm not sure about the Cap S1.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #422 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Archaea, do you know the actually output numbers of the S1? I'm very curious because that was the one sub that I was very very close to buying before deciding on dual PSA XS30's.

I would have to believe that my dual XS30's would have more output then a single Cap S1 though, but I'm just not sure. I know what the XS30's are capable of for output numbers but I'm not sure about the Cap S1.

I bet it would be just under the UXL-18 and above the SI-18 if you look at the Data-bass site. This is going off displacement. UXL-18 is 34 mm, SI 23 mm and the Cap 30 mm. You can also look at the LMS with 38 mm of x-max.
post #423 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I bet it would be just under the UXL-18 and above the SI-18 if you look at the Data-bass site. This is going off displacement. UXL-18 is 34 mm, SI 23 mm and the Cap 30 mm. You can also look at the LMS with 38 mm of x-max.

If that's the case my dual XS30's would have more output then a single Cap S1.

I love your setup MK!!
post #424 of 536
Going off pure displacement the XS30's would have a fair advantage. The uncertain part is the amplifier capability <20hz in the PSA amps. smile.gif I think the XS30's are a straight bargain for what they sell for. In that range that's probably what I would buy.
post #425 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Going off pure displacement the XS30's would have a fair advantage. The uncertain part is the amplifier capability <20hz in the PSA amps. smile.gif I think the XS30's are a straight bargain for what they sell for. In that range that's probably what I would buy.

I still need to get around to doing some room measurements, but I emailed Tom at PSA some very detailed drawing of the room along with a lot of pictures a let him know where the subs would be placed. After all of this info he figured with room gain I would have very solid output down to roughly 7-8hz. So far it sure feels like that.

I have always thought "what if" when thinking about the Cap S1, but I have been really happy with the XS30's so far.

I bought them as soon as they were released so dual's only cost me $2100 shipped, plus on top of that both had a little freight damage threw no fault of PSA. But because of that Tom said I could have another two new ones or just keep the ones I had plus get some more cash back. In the end I think it only cost me $1800 for dual XS30's, which I personally think was a great bargain.
post #426 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I still need to get around to doing some room measurements, but I emailed Tom at PSA some very detailed drawing of the room along with a lot of pictures a let him know where the subs would be placed. After all of this info he figured with room gain I would have very solid output down to roughly 7-8hz. So far it sure feels like that.

I have always thought "what if" when thinking about the Cap S1, but I have been really happy with the XS30's so far.

I bought them as soon as they were released so dual's only cost me $2100 shipped, plus on top of that both had a little freight damage threw no fault of PSA. But because of that Tom said I could have another two new ones or just keep the ones I had plus get some more cash back. In the end I think it only cost me $1800 for dual XS30's, which I personally think was a great bargain.

I had one of the original XS15's in my room before the October GTG and had really nice extension down to 13hz. I imagine the pair of XS30's would be pretty killer.
post #427 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Going off pure displacement the XS30's would have a fair advantage. The uncertain part is the amplifier capability <20hz in the PSA amps. smile.gif I think the XS30's are a straight bargain for what they sell for. In that range that's probably what I would buy.

Quick math:
15" area = 823 (lab15) x 2 =1646cm2
18" = 1200cm2
1200/1649= 0.729
30mm/0.729= 21.8mm
Pair of 15" drivers would need 21.8 mm Xmax to equal a 18" with 30mm of Xmax
3.5"/0.729=2.55"
Pair of 15" drivers would need 2.55" Xmexh to equal a 18" with 3.5" Xmech
post #428 of 536
Thread Starter 
PSA XS30 specs.

Power Sound Audio proprietary 15” driver
High excursion capabilities (2" peak to peak)

Quoted from PSA XS30 website.

Looks like a captivator s1 offers more displacement than a XS30.

Having heard a pair of CHT 18" sealed and a pair of HSU vtf-15h in my room and feeling like they both were not enough. I did not feel that way about the cap s1 when I heard that pair in my room. I've had an Epik Empire in my room as well which is similar to a XS30 and similar to a vtf-15h in output. I've heard the xs15 at gorillas. The difference between all those subs and a captivator is not minor. I guess I'm just more of a bass hound than most on these forums.

Gorilla, your basement room has phenomenal room gain. Probably the best of any of the dozen + rooms I've personally measured. A single 12" sealed sub in there measures flatter than pairs of 15" sealed subs I've measured in several other rooms. Truth!
Edited by Archaea - 5/2/13 at 8:27pm
post #429 of 536
Thread Starter 
Jbrown15, a pair of xs30 subs should be pretty nice...I'm glad you are happy. Based on my experiences -- I have the suspicion I personally would want a bit more in my room--- but I haven't demoed them yet either. I know a guy who had four epik empires stacked and four pb13 ultras stacked and he still wanted more. He then ordered four submersive hp subs and sold the pb 13 subs. So now he runs Seaton and epik subs. I've demoed both his setups...his room is 6500 cubic feet and oddly shaped and difficult to drive. My room is 3500 cubic feet, but with a pair of caps - mine sounds better. The room makes a lot of difference. I see your room is smaller at 2100 cubic feet, so it'll take less to drive it. At any rate I'm glad you are enjoying your equipment. If you enjoy it and have what you need don't let anyone else convince you otherwise.
Edited by Archaea - 5/2/13 at 8:58pm
post #430 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

PSA XS30 specs.

Power Sound Audio proprietary 15” driver
High excursion capabilities (2" peak to peak)

Quoted from PSA XS30 website.

Looks like a captivator s1 offers more displacement than a XS30.

Having heard a pair of CHT 18" sealed and a pair of HSU vtf-15h in my room and feeling like they both were not enough. I did not feel that way about the cap s1 when I heard that pair in my room. I've had an Epik Empire in my room as well which is similar to a XS30 and similar to a vtf-15h in output. I've heard the xs15 at gorillas. The difference between all those subs and a captivator is not minor. I guess I'm just more of a bass hound than most on these forums.

Gorilla, your basement room has phenomenal room gain. Probably the best of any of the dozen + rooms I've personally measured. A single 12" sealed sub in there measures flatter than pairs of 15" sealed subs I've measured in several other rooms. Truth!

Archaea, so are you saying a single Cap S1 would have more output then dual XS30's?
post #431 of 536
Thread Starter 
No. Four 15s will trump a single 18. I was saying 1 for 1 a cap s1 will be superior to an xs30. This conversation started with a guy saying he was eyeing the s1 due to its small size. I know of nothing more powerful, in a smaller sealed form factor, for less expense outside of DIY. My statement holds.
Edited by Archaea - 5/2/13 at 9:05pm
post #432 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

No. Four 15s will trump a single 18. I was saying 1 for 1 a cap s1 will be superior to an xs30. This conversation started with a guy saying he was eyeing the s1 due to its small size. I know of nothing more powerful, in a smaller form factor outside of DIY. My statement holds.

Oh okay, yeah I figured one to one the CapS1 beats out a XS30. I still think I would have loved to have a Cap S1, but I couldn't beat getting the XS30's for $1800. I'm guessing that since I usually never listen to my system higher then +5 and usually watch movies at -5, the XS30's should be able to keep up with my incoming 228HT's.
post #433 of 536
Thread Starter 
Yes that and your smaller room is a boon! Luke Kamp has a couple hsu vtf-15h in his 1500 cubic foot room and its some of the best bass I've ever heard. He brought the two subs to my room and I was a bit underwhelmed with max output. We entered into audible compression before I was satisfied with volume. He has to really really really crank them in his room to get to that point.
Edited by Archaea - 5/2/13 at 9:13pm
post #434 of 536
I was actually even thinking about picking up another two XS30's and stacking two in each corner behind my false wall and AT screen.biggrin.gif
Or maybe even doing a DIY project.
post #435 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

Quick math:
15" area = 823 (lab15) x 2 =1646cm2
18" = 1200cm2
1200/1649= 0.729
30mm/0.729= 21.8mm
Pair of 15" drivers would need 21.8 mm Xmax to equal a 18" with 30mm of Xmax
3.5"/0.729=2.55"
Pair of 15" drivers would need 2.55" Xmexh to equal a 18" with 3.5" Xmech

Jeff - as they stated I was comparing a pair of XS30s (four 15's) vs the single S1. tongue.gif I believe that's what the guy was basing his comparison on, correct?

Like I said from a pure displacement standpoint the XS30s (pair) would have an advantage. The biggest plus on the Cap/S1 side is the amplifier they use. It's crazy efficient and provides stupid amounts of power in the ultra low areas. Not to mention it would take up much smaller amount of physical space if you're space or placement constrained.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 5/3/13 at 5:21am
post #436 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

PSA XS30 specs.

Gorilla, your basement room has phenomenal room gain. Probably the best of any of the dozen + rooms I've personally measured. A single 12" sealed sub in there measures flatter than pairs of 15" sealed subs I've measured in several other rooms. Truth!

Haha, I won't argue with you there. biggrin.gif I was/am flat down to 6hz with just one of my subs running. eek.gif Adding +3LT below 20hz gives me like +6-8db of added output haha.
post #437 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Or maybe even doing a DIY project.

Now you've got my attention. biggrin.gif
post #438 of 536
Hi guys, I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these Neosis bad boys next week, a 228 for my center channel. I can't afford to buy three at once, or I would, but for now I'll be using my two Klipsch KL-650 THX Ultra 2s as my main left and right's.

Now, I have a question here, as I'm having some kind of problem with my Emotiva amp and current set up and worried that I may damage my new Noesis. I have an XPA-3 that's been good to me, however it seems to shut down when I run my KL-650s. I have, I believe, two blown compression drivers, it happened all of a sudden when I turned on my amp, my apartment was very staticky that day and I heard my speakers pop. I got two replacement horns for my KL's from Parts Express, but I'm worried something in my electrical system, such as having too much gear for the circuirts here, is causing my amp to go into shutdown mode and possibly blow tweeters repeatedly. Is there some test I can do? How many amps do I need from my breaker for an Emotiva XPA-3? And why do my tweeters keep blowing? I didn't do anything special. I want to protect my investment and avoid future headaches. Once I put in my replacement horns tonight I just don't want to risk them blowing again, as I might sell these Klipsch to have an all JTR set-up. These speakers have been good to me but it's time to move up in the world!

I'm also considering the Single 8s but the slant one for my center, as I have a non-acoustically transparent projector screen and it would be nice to reclaim the floor area beneat the screen to clean up my living space a bit. It sucks but the Elite AT screen I got before had way too much moire on my BenQ w1070, so I had to get the regular white one (which I'm happy with...but that means I need to figure out placing for my speakers). My Klipsch are also too wide, they have to go below the screen. With either the Slant 8s or the Noesis 228s, I think I can figure something out for my left and right so they won't have to be below the screen, and can either eventually put three 228s on the sides + above the screen (angled down), or get three slanted 8s for my LCRs, angled down, or I'm not sure. I do like the fact that the Noesis are longer than they are wide, so maybe I can squeeze them alongside my screen in the place I have, and it not impact the viewable area of my projected image (I don't have much space!).

Then again, I might move back into my old loft one day and there I'd build an AT 4k curved scope screen and put these speakers behind it, in which case the slanted ones wouldn't make as much sense as the 228s or possibly single 8 low profile version. Anyway, I need the forums input on my amp problems, it's just so heavy to ship it back to Emotiva to eliminate the amp as the cause of my tweeters blowing (this is the third time). The first time was my fault since I ran my speakers from my Marantz which isn't 4 ohm safe, since I bent the RCA inputs by accident (since then I fixed them myself with a replacement part from Emotiva). Now I'm just wondering if perhaps my electrics are overloaded in my new condo / apartment and I could blow my new gear too, or perhaps the Klipsch KL-650s and the XPA-3 were never a good match to begin with? I ran them for years together, but I just need to know what's going wrong to blow these horns all the time. Makes me worried to buy these 228s and have the same problem happen again.
post #439 of 536
Curious, how well do the Noesis match the S8 in sound? For those who really are determined to have their speakers match as much as possible, I don't see a small version of the Noesis being likely.
post #440 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Hi guys, I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these Neosis bad boys next week, a 228 for my center channel. I can't afford to buy three at once, or I would, but for now I'll be using my two Klipsch KL-650 THX Ultra 2s as my main left and right's.

Now, I have a question here, as I'm having some kind of problem with my Emotiva amp and current set up and worried that I may damage my new Noesis. I have an XPA-3 that's been good to me, however it seems to shut down when I run my KL-650s. I have, I believe, two blown compression drivers, it happened all of a sudden when I turned on my amp, my apartment was very staticky that day and I heard my speakers pop. I got two replacement horns for my KL's from Parts Express, but I'm worried something in my electrical system, such as having too much gear for the circuirts here, is causing my amp to go into shutdown mode and possibly blow tweeters repeatedly. Is there some test I can do? How many amps do I need from my breaker for an Emotiva XPA-3? And why do my tweeters keep blowing? I didn't do anything special. I want to protect my investment and avoid future headaches. Once I put in my replacement horns tonight I just don't want to risk them blowing again, as I might sell these Klipsch to have an all JTR set-up. These speakers have been good to me but it's time to move up in the world!

I'm also considering the Single 8s but the slant one for my center, as I have a non-acoustically transparent projector screen and it would be nice to reclaim the floor area beneat the screen to clean up my living space a bit. It sucks but the Elite AT screen I got before had way too much moire on my BenQ w1070, so I had to get the regular white one (which I'm happy with...but that means I need to figure out placing for my speakers). My Klipsch are also too wide, they have to go below the screen. With either the Slant 8s or the Noesis 228s, I think I can figure something out for my left and right so they won't have to be below the screen, and can either eventually put three 228s on the sides + above the screen (angled down), or get three slanted 8s for my LCRs, angled down, or I'm not sure. I do like the fact that the Noesis are longer than they are wide, so maybe I can squeeze them alongside my screen in the place I have, and it not impact the viewable area of my projected image (I don't have much space!).

Then again, I might move back into my old loft one day and there I'd build an AT 4k curved scope screen and put these speakers behind it, in which case the slanted ones wouldn't make as much sense as the 228s or possibly single 8 low profile version. Anyway, I need the forums input on my amp problems, it's just so heavy to ship it back to Emotiva to eliminate the amp as the cause of my tweeters blowing (this is the third time). The first time was my fault since I ran my speakers from my Marantz which isn't 4 ohm safe, since I bent the RCA inputs by accident (since then I fixed them myself with a replacement part from Emotiva). Now I'm just wondering if perhaps my electrics are overloaded in my new condo / apartment and I could blow my new gear too, or perhaps the Klipsch KL-650s and the XPA-3 were never a good match to begin with? I ran them for years together, but I just need to know what's going wrong to blow these horns all the time. Makes me worried to buy these 228s and have the same problem happen again.

I would not be buying speakers until I resolved the issue you are having with the blown CD's. The Klipsch are an efficient speaker and the Emotiva should be more than adequate (especially in a condo/apartment wink.gif). It sounds like you need and electrician to check out the power. If that is all good, then sending the Emotiva back for evaluation/repair would be the next step.
post #441 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Hi guys, I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these Neosis bad boys next week, a 228 for my center channel. I can't afford to buy three at once, or I would, but for now I'll be using my two Klipsch KL-650 THX Ultra 2s as my main left and right's.

Now, I have a question here, as I'm having some kind of problem with my Emotiva amp and current set up and worried that I may damage my new Noesis. I have an XPA-3 that's been good to me, however it seems to shut down when I run my KL-650s. I have, I believe, two blown compression drivers, it happened all of a sudden when I turned on my amp, my apartment was very staticky that day and I heard my speakers pop. I got two replacement horns for my KL's from Parts Express, but I'm worried something in my electrical system, such as having too much gear for the circuirts here, is causing my amp to go into shutdown mode and possibly blow tweeters repeatedly. Is there some test I can do? How many amps do I need from my breaker for an Emotiva XPA-3? And why do my tweeters keep blowing? I didn't do anything special. I want to protect my investment and avoid future headaches. Once I put in my replacement horns tonight I just don't want to risk them blowing again, as I might sell these Klipsch to have an all JTR set-up. These speakers have been good to me but it's time to move up in the world!

I'm also considering the Single 8s but the slant one for my center, as I have a non-acoustically transparent projector screen and it would be nice to reclaim the floor area beneat the screen to clean up my living space a bit. It sucks but the Elite AT screen I got before had way too much moire on my BenQ w1070, so I had to get the regular white one (which I'm happy with...but that means I need to figure out placing for my speakers). My Klipsch are also too wide, they have to go below the screen. With either the Slant 8s or the Noesis 228s, I think I can figure something out for my left and right so they won't have to be below the screen, and can either eventually put three 228s on the sides + above the screen (angled down), or get three slanted 8s for my LCRs, angled down, or I'm not sure. I do like the fact that the Noesis are longer than they are wide, so maybe I can squeeze them alongside my screen in the place I have, and it not impact the viewable area of my projected image (I don't have much space!).

Then again, I might move back into my old loft one day and there I'd build an AT 4k curved scope screen and put these speakers behind it, in which case the slanted ones wouldn't make as much sense as the 228s or possibly single 8 low profile version. Anyway, I need the forums input on my amp problems, it's just so heavy to ship it back to Emotiva to eliminate the amp as the cause of my tweeters blowing (this is the third time). The first time was my fault since I ran my speakers from my Marantz which isn't 4 ohm safe, since I bent the RCA inputs by accident (since then I fixed them myself with a replacement part from Emotiva). Now I'm just wondering if perhaps my electrics are overloaded in my new condo / apartment and I could blow my new gear too, or perhaps the Klipsch KL-650s and the XPA-3 were never a good match to begin with? I ran them for years together, but I just need to know what's going wrong to blow these horns all the time. Makes me worried to buy these 228s and have the same problem happen again.

Did you also try just run your AVR to your speaker and eliminate the amps (you can use this downtime to send back to emotiva for repair/checking)? Noesis is so efficient and seriously, maybe you don't even need an amp... especially if you say you have a relatively small apartment.
My living room is about 20x15, and I run my 228 (LCR) with Onkyo 818. I can get up to 0dB with no problem (and seriously, I only do that for a limited time for testing... normally, -10dB is what I used to).
post #442 of 536
Thanks for the response. I plugged in my amp into another socket that's all on its own after installing the brand new CDs on my Klipsch, and no shutdowns (as expected). So I think my electronics are okay, maybe it was just building-wide static issues which seem to be intermittent. Is there an anti-static or surge protector that's worth using? Line conditioner maybe? I'm not thinking about it for audiophile nonsense, more just to avoid spikes/surges due to whatever source to protect my investment.

And to answer your question, my klipsch dip into 4 ohms and running them from my AVR was how I blew my horns originally (ok it was an all night rave at huge decibels...but I'd done that several times before and it was only when my amp was out of the loop due to a broken RCA jack that I had to use my Marantz).

After things seem stable I'll be putting in some serious consideration for either a Single 8 or a Noesis...I can't wait!
post #443 of 536
Anyone who's heard both these and Klipsch THX Ultra 2 set can say a word or two on their relative merits? Subjective opinions are fine smile.gif that's what I want, other movie bufs opinions. Reason I ask is because I want to upgrade my setup and am also considering a 2.1 channel /w phantom center setup.
post #444 of 536
Did you get the right CD for your Klipsch? Is it just a stock CD from parts express? Make sure you have the correct parts to begin with.
post #445 of 536
Aye, the ones from Parts Express are identical and work fine. Good source, actually. But if / when I do upgrade, I'm leaning towards this Noesis or maybe Seaton (that would be waaay down the line).

I really want to hear what these 228s sound like though, to make sure they'd be an actual upgrade from my Klipsch.
post #446 of 536
Thread Starter 
We compared my 228's directly to a set of Klipsch RF-63 in A/B manner. The 228 were a step up in both my and the Klipsch owner's opinion. Too small a upgrade, we both thought, to make him drop everything and run out to purchase the JTR (but FWIW we are both cheap and somewhat practical). In the end both he and I thought the JTR were superior for movie watching and dynamics. The RF-63 is a Klipsch flagship model along with the RF-83. I see you are running the KL-650's. I've not heard those. You might pm scrappydue (the guy I know with the Klipsch) and see what he thinks about it - if he has experience with the KL-650. It's that old addage about diminished returns. You may have 80-90% of the top performance with a speaker that costs 50% of that top performing speaker - how much are you going to pay to get that last 10-20%? I have the same go round with the 212HT.

Here's a thread that came up in a search for the KL-650
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1002715/using-3-klipsch-rf83-vs-the-kl-650-from-the-thx-ultra-set
Edited by Archaea - 5/17/13 at 9:58pm
post #447 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

We compared my 228's directly to a set of Klipsch RF-63 in A/B manner. The 228 were a step up in both my and the Klipsch owner's opinion. Too small a upgrade, we both thought, to make him drop everything and run out to purchase the JTR (but FWIW we are both cheap and somewhat practical). In the end both he and I thought the JTR were superior for movie watching and dynamics. The RF-63 is a Klipsch flagship model along with the RF-83. I see you are running the KL-650's. I've not heard those. You might pm scrappydue (the guy I know with the Klipsch) and see what he thinks about it - if he has experience with the KL-650. It's that old addage about diminished returns. You may have 80-90% of the top performance with a speaker that costs 50% of that top performing speaker - how much are you going to pay to get that last 10-20%? I have the same go round with the 212HT.

Here's a thread that came up in a search for the KL-650
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1002715/using-3-klipsch-rf83-vs-the-kl-650-from-the-thx-ultra-set

Klipsch considers the Palladium line there flagship model line, not the reference series. Maybe at the time the RF-63 and 83 were out Klipsch hadn't introduced the Palladium line.
post #448 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

PSA XS30 specs.

Power Sound Audio proprietary 15” driver
High excursion capabilities (2" peak to peak)

Quoted from PSA XS30 website.

Looks like a captivator s1 offers more displacement than a XS30.

Having heard a pair of CHT 18" sealed and a pair of HSU vtf-15h in my room and feeling like they both were not enough. I did not feel that way about the cap s1 when I heard that pair in my room. I've had an Epik Empire in my room as well which is similar to a XS30 and similar to a vtf-15h in output. I've heard the xs15 at gorillas. The difference between all those subs and a captivator is not minor. I guess I'm just more of a bass hound than most on these forums.

Gorilla, your basement room has phenomenal room gain. Probably the best of any of the dozen + rooms I've personally measured. A single 12" sealed sub in there measures flatter than pairs of 15" sealed subs I've measured in several other rooms. Truth!
Speaking of the PSA subs. They just released the XV-30F. A front firing version of my XV-30's. I had talked with Tom about doing this awhile back about standing my XV-30s up and removing the plate. I really like what they did here. I may give it a shot. However my love of the S2's has not gone away. I think I am going to order a pair very soon.
post #449 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Klipsch considers the Palladium line there flagship model line, not the reference series. Maybe at the time the RF-63 and 83 were out Klipsch hadn't introduced the Palladium line.

Yes, the Palladium's were built from 2008 according to the Klipsch website. The msrp is $20,000 per pair. There are favorable reviews all over the place. I have never heard them myself.

I have the RF-83's and I think the msrp was $2500 per pair. They are commonly offered at a large discount so no one ever plays full price. Mine were 50% off. So my RF-83's are $625 each. That is in line with what most people actually pay.

That makes the 228's nearly twice the cost. And I have no doubt that they are worth every penny. The JTR 228's should best anything from the Klipsch Reference line if the price point is any indication. I absolutely love the 212's and if they are any indication I would expect the 228's to offer superior clarity compared to the RF series especially at high volumes. Not to mention a sturdy compression driver which many people need in order to safely boost the treble to compensate for an AT screen (myself included).

Anyway, the 228 is high on my list of affordable speakers to put in my room. My expectations would be that the 228's are an enormously more capable speaker for movies. I don't know how they would compare for music. I really don't feel my RF's are broken for music so we will see.

I am hoping to hear them soon.......hint hint Jonathan. It would be fun to compare with the 212, and Mr Smithers new SEOS speakers too.
post #450 of 536
Man I am absolutely loving my 228HT's so far, I can't believe how great they sound and how clear and crisp movies sound. So far they are worth every penny they cost me, and they're built like mini tanks!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint.