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Lets talk AntiCables...;) - Page 2

post #31 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

and theories are based off of some sort of data biggrin.gif
And the data has to do with the R.I.C...smile.gif...resistance, capasitance and inductance... And the type of sheilding.

Shouldn't that be "Resistance, Inductance, and Capacitance" . . . ? biggrin.gif
_
post #32 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Anticable speaker cables aren't shielded. So, how does the resistance, capacitance, and inductance stack up against normal speaker cable, say Belden 5000UE (just because the numbers are readily available)? How do those differences create an audible difference?
Your capable of doing research...look into it...smile.gif
post #33 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Your capable of doing research...look into it...smile.gif

You are the one preaching it man lol. If you can post the data that could show something man!
post #34 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Shouldn't that be "Resistance, Inductance, and Capacitance" . . . ? biggrin.gif
_
15?...17?...from your post I would think so...smile.gif...OK back on topic.
post #35 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

You are the one preaching it man lol. If you can post the data that could show something man!
I'm not preaching...I shouldnt have to hold your hand...your capable of Google searches as am I...smile.gif
post #36 of 331
Thread Starter 
post #37 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

And the data has to do with the R.I.C...smile.gif...resistance, capasitance and inductance... And the type of sheilding.
Actually inductance is abbreviated L not I. So it is commonly refered to as RLC (resistance-inductance capacitance)
post #38 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by almadacr View Post

You don't have any proof of what you claim , only your personal experience.
Yes indeed, who needs personal experience when you can instead just blindly accept the word of internet "experts" who have no personal experience.
post #39 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Actually inductance is abbreviated L not I. So it is commonly refered to as RLC (resistance-inductance capacitance)
Nitpicking my post does nothing to further the conversation.
post #40 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Nitpicking my post does nothing to further the conversation.

Failing to provide data and telling others to research it doesn't help either:)

and no posting the FAQ to the company doesn't count:D
If that thing were true I might have been running my cables backwards all this time!

In the end though, if you are happy with your purchase and are enjoying your audio experience than good for you.
post #41 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

It is clear you believe these cables improve your sound. It is also clear you believe the only way for others to learn if they will work as well for them is to buy the cables and try them out.

On the other side, it is equally clear that many here reject both of those beliefs. Do you have anything else to offer? Or, do you plan to just keep repeating those same two beliefs in answer to every post, as you have done at blu-ray.com?

Good catch! I notice a certain similarity between the first post of this thread and the one over at blu-ray. A straight copy and paste.
post #42 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Failing to provide data and telling others to research it doesn't help either:)

and no posting the FAQ to the company doesn't count:D
If that thing were true I might have been running my cables backwards all this time!

In the end though, if you are happy with your purchase and are enjoying your audio experience than good for you.
Thanks...and the data is there...your just not reading it...smile.gif
post #43 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post

Good catch! I notice a certain similarity between the first post of this thread and the one over at blu-ray. A straight copy and paste.
It sure was...and that proves what?
post #44 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Thanks...and the data is there...your just not reading it...smile.gif

Where is this data you speak of?
post #45 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Where is this data you speak of?
The point of all of this is that there a subtle differences in cable...I've heard it and 1000's of others have too.I'm not out to prove or disprove anything.In my own tests I've noticed it does...maybe I hear things that you cannot...I don't know I'm not you...and no matter what your using for cables if your happy great...continue to use them...if your at all curious about the Anti cable..try them...but only if you concider testing cables worth while.I did out of curiosity and was pleased with what I found...so I'm sharing that with others.
post #46 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

The point of all of this is that there a subtle differences in cable...I've heard it and 1000's of others have too.I'm not out to prove or disprove anything.In my own tests I've noticed it does...maybe I hear things that you cannot...I don't know I'm not you...and no matter what your using for cables if your happy great...continue to use them...if your at all curious about the Anti cable..try them...but only if you concider testing cables worth while.I did out of curiosity and was pleased with what I found...so I'm sharing that with others.

If you can't explain to me why they allowed more "depth" and such just say so rolleyes.gif

IMHO it would make things less tense around here biggrin.gif
post #47 of 331
josh6113 - you seem unwilling to accept the fact that the kind of testing you (and those thousands of others you mention) have done is inherently flawed and has next to no scientific validity. The Stereophile cable test you quoted in the blu-ray.com forum is similarly flawed, as was pointed out to you in considerable detail. So, there's really no point in this thread. You've made your claim that you hear a difference and seem to have nothing else to offer here - at least, nothing that addresses the issues that posters at both AVS and blu-ray.com have raised.
post #48 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

josh6113 - you seem unwilling to accept the fact that the kind of testing you (and those thousands of others you mention) have done is inherently flawed and has next to no scientific validity. The Stereophile cable test you quoted in the blu-ray.com forum is similarly flawed, as was pointed out to you in considerable detail. So, there's really no point in this thread. You've made your claim that you hear a difference and seem to have nothing else to offer here - at least, nothing that addresses the issues that posters at both AVS and blu-ray.com have raised.
I understand that...I can't explain...just offer what I notice...and the other thing is people cant prove cable DOESNT sound different...the door swings both ways.
post #49 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

...look into it...smile.gif
I have. It is obvious you haven't, or you are intentionally ignoring the facts. But in case the former is the case., and for the benefit of others...

A perfect wire would have no resistance, capacitance or inductance. A practical wire has all three. We just want to keep the values low enough that they have no audible effect.

Resistance doesn't have an audible effect, expect for volume, as long as the resistance of the speaker cables doesn't exceed say 5% of the lowest impedance of the speaker. So assuming that you have an adequate size wire to start with, ETP or OFC won't make a difference. The difference in resistance between ETP and OFC is less than 1%.

Inductance is primariiy a function of the length of the wire. Wire gauge and cable construction can make some difference. But unless you have a very, very long cable, the inductance of a cable won't have an audible effect.

Capacitance is a function of cable geometry and the type of insulation. It isn't generally a problem, except in some boutique cables.

So lets look at some numbers:

Level 3 Belden
anticable 5000UE
R(ohms/foot) 0.0016 0.0016
L(mH/foot) 0.0003 0.00015
C(nF/foot) 0.048 0.024

Gee, two 12 AWG wires have the same resistance per foot to four significant digits even though one is ETP and one one is OFC. And the Belden 5000UE has half the capacitance and inductance per foot of the anticable. The Belden 5000UE measures superior to the anticable. But the relevant fact is that both measure low enough that you won't hear a difference between them because of RLC.

So, it is obvious RLC is not an argument one can use to explain the audible superiority of anticables.
Edited by Colm - 2/23/13 at 12:25pm
post #50 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

I have. It is obvious you haven't, or you are intentionally ignoring the facts. But in case the former is the case., and for the benefit of others...

A perfect wire would have no resistance, capacitance or inductance. A practical wire has all three. We just want to keep the values low enough that they have no audible effect.

Resistance doesn't have an audible effect, expect for volume, as long as the resistance of the speaker cables doesn't exceed say 5% of the lowest impedance of the speaker. So assuming that you have an adequate size wire to start with, ETP or OFC won't make a difference. The difference in resistance between ETP and OFC is less than 1%.

Inductance is primariiy a function of the length of the wire. Wire gauge and cable construction can make some difference. But unless you have a very, very long cable, the inductance of a cable won't have an audible effect.

Capacitance is a function of cable geometry and the type of insulation. It isn't generally a problem, except in some boutique cables.

So lets look at some numbers:

Level 3 Belden
anticable 5000UE
R(ohms/foot) 0.0016 0.0016
L(mH/foot) 0.0003 0.00015
C(nF/foot) 0.048 0.024

Gee, two 12 AWG wires have the same resistance per foot to four significant digits even though one is ETP and one one is OFC. And the Belden 5000UE has half the capacitance and inductance per foot of the anticable. The Belden 5000UE measures superior to the anticable.

So, it is obvious RLC is not an argument one can use to explain the audible superiority of anticables.
All this info was in the link I posted...and not once did I say Anti cable was superior... I just posted my findings from it compared to the cable I used in my very first post...you however are saying Belden is superior so its seems I'm not the one who should prove something....I've not once said one cable is better than the other...just for me I've noticed differences and what I hear through the anti's sounds great to me compared to what I've personally used.
Edited by josh6113 - 2/23/13 at 12:37pm
post #51 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

...and not once did I say Anti cable was superior... .
Well if they aren't superior, why the heck would you waste our time and yours recommending we try them?
post #52 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Well if they aren't superior, why the heck would you waste our time and yours recommending we try them?
If you try them you can answer that yourself...and you sound like the type that believes if it doesn't cost more it cannot be better crowd.
post #53 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

...you sound like the type that believes if it doesn't cost more it cannot be better crowd.
LOL if you only knew. Since you brought up what I sound like, you sould like a shill for anticable.

It has been fun. See ya. Gotta go melt some metal.
post #54 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

LOL if you only knew. Since you brought up what I sound like, you sould like a shill for anticable.

It has been fun. See ya. Gotta go melt some metal.
You can say that...even though I'm not...keep me posted on the melting...smile.gif
post #55 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Nitpicking my post does nothing to further the conversation.
Except to add some clarification to the proper use of terms so that others may not make the same mistake.

Other than that-sure-it adds nothing of any importance
post #56 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

They don't change the sound...let's get that clear...what they do is provide a very clean path...I get great seperation and a depth I've not heard in other cables I've tried...you have never used them so how do you know?...what speakers do you have BTW?
More nonsense. All cables have inductance, resistance and capacitance, hence it affects the signal, period. One's imagination never stopped reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

...anyway try them or don't...I'll leave that up to you...smile.gif
Thanks, don't need to to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Look the only way anyone will know if anything will be good is to try it.......
Pure nonsense. Don't need to try everything before knowing.
post #57 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I understand that...I can't explain...just offer what I notice...and the other thing is people cant prove cable DOESNT sound different...the door swings both ways.
But we can test your null hypothesis too and accept/reject it as well.
Let me ask you, what will convince you that you didn't really hear a difference, just perceived one due to subconscious biases beacus of flawed testing? Anything??
post #58 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

More nonsense. All cables have inductance, resistance and capacitance, hence it affects the signal, period. One's imagination never stopped reality.
Thanks, don't need to to know.
Pure nonsense. Don't need to try everything before knowing.
Then we can agree to disagree...smile.gif...except about the I.R.C....and how can you possibly have an option on the cable if you've never tried it in your own system?...my opinion is based on cable I've used not what I havent.If you believe its noscense that's your right...doesn't make it true.
post #59 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

But we can test your null hypothesis too and accept/reject it as well.
Let me ask you, what will convince you that you didn't really hear a difference, just perceived one due to subconscious biases beacus of flawed testing? Anything??
Because of my own testing I've done... I didn't just listen for 5 minutes and said yep that is a big difference...I've tested and listened with various music,movies and concerts between all the cable I have and what I heard really surprised me....I was a skeptic myself until I did my own comparisons.
post #60 of 331
This thread was ignored for four days before it got its first response.

I liked it better that way.
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