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PlayStation 4 - Page 12

post #331 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I just thought of something. from this discussion. Some of the additional new perks we'll get with our PS4s is the ability to record up to 15 minutes of play and have friends drop in to watch and/or take control of our current activity. How much of that is 100% independent of the game, and how much of it must be universally coded to work? Not only that, the trophy system (which currently is coded into PS3 games) may change up in some way if Sony wants.

What I am getting at is that besides the super HD, 60 fps 3D conversion of PS3 classics, they would also make these games fully PS4 compatible with all the new perks included.

I'm sure the video stuff is universal. There's a hardware encoder that can just feed off the frame buffer, the games don't even need to be aware of it to work.
post #332 of 15246
I am more interested in complete remakes of older PS2 and PS1 games to be honest, not just HD remasters, the best PS3 games aren't bad looking at all.

PS4 FF7 remake, we all know SE will make tons of money from it, but they just aren't willing to do it =(
post #333 of 15246
I wouldn't mind a PS4 conversion of GTA V. But games like Uncharted look good enough as it is. No need to remake those games.
post #334 of 15246
I would love a PC port of Tomb Raider on the PS4. The Digital Foundry faceoff made me want that game on more powerful hardware. I'll probably get it for PS3 when it hits $29.99, but I would jump on PS4 version.
post #335 of 15246
It could be coming....they def don't want to announce it yet though.
post #336 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by freepsncodes View Post

i am thinking about buying the new ps4 but dont like the fact that you cant play ps3 games on it man sony just wants to tae your money

The whole Backwards Compatible issue, is going to be a BIG one. There is a good segment of the gaming population that would prefer to sell their PS3, along with 75 percent of their PS3 library, to put that money towards their PS4 purchase. But, with no guarantee of any kind of legitimate BC, you have to hold onto that PS3 if you want to play any PS3 games. So the idea of selling off your system and most of your games, for the upgrade, goes out the window. This will take away a certain portion of customers.

Also, there will be those out there that feel that they have so much invested in their PS3, that they would rather STAY with their PS3, otherwise they will feel a sort of Buyer's Remorse for having all this PS3 stuff, and then moving on to a PS4 where none of that stuff is aplicable.

As far as GaiKai is concerned, seeing is believing. Sure, I think people with super fast internet can probably get by with the GaiKai streaming, but I just don't see it for the average US consumer.


This is going to be a hairy issue that isn't going to go away any time soon.


Microsoft is likely in the same boat, which will soften the blow for both of them to a degree, but the whole BC thing is actually going to be a pretty big deal. People got used to it last generation.
post #337 of 15246
Thread Starter 
They got used to it so much that when Sony removed PS2 BC, PS3 sales happened to go up. In regions that never had PS2 BC machines, Sony has had some of their best PS3 success.

Forum noise over BC may flare up every now and then, but the price of the system and software support are far, far more critical issues for the PS4. Besides, PS3 BC with Gaikai, if it works as well as people said about PC Gaikai, is better than nothing.
post #338 of 15246
A lot of people are going to be angry when their digital purchases don't transfer over. PS3 sales didn't go up because they removed PS2 support, it went up due to price drops and more games coming. Removing PS2 support barely cut costs anyway, so it isn't even a big factor in the price drops.

Sony needs to work on getting every game on the PSN running on the PS4 for those who jumped on the digital bandwagon, otherwise their digital sales will tank, people expect digital content to follow them to new hardware. Same thing goes for Microsoft.
post #339 of 15246
Thread Starter 
That's why I said sales "happened" to go up when BC was removed - it wasn't to suggest causation. However, in regions that did not have PS2 BC offered at all (i.e. Europe), PS3 sales have been successful and was completely unaffected by the decision. Such is true for the overwhelming number of consoles sold with little or no BC over the decades.

The point is, BC is over rated forum chatter and nothing more when it comes to how a console performs. Do I want it? Sure, but not having it has no affect on my purchasing decision since I still have my PS3, and am willing to check out Gaikai BC as well. The masses are not going to care in significant numbers when the new machine rolls around. All this random "people now expect" is coming from nowhere. No basis whatsoever for what is simply another opinion.

Besides, it's funny how some act as if Sony can snap their fingers and make BC happen. The PS4 and PS3 are architecturally so vastly different from one another that full emulation of the PS3 is impossible on the software side. That leaves hardware emulation (outside of Gaikai streaming) as the only technically possible solution.

So simply spike up the PS4's price to add a bunch of PS3 components? Not gonna happen, and it doesn't take a genius to understand why. Price was the single biggest complaint regarding launch PS3s, so anything that unnecessarily increases the PS4's price by a significant amount has been cut (hardware BC for the PS4 would be a lot more expensive than PS3's hardware BC).

Offer a hardware PS3 BC add-on for the PS4? I'd love that myself, but with the Gaikai purchase price of $300 million, I guess Sony will focus on BC from that end first before making other considerations.

That'll leave selected super HD ports for popular PS3 titles as a supplement, which will be resold regardless of whether or not you own the original. Just like almost any generation launch before it, hang on to your PS3s if playing your own, older discs and online purchases will still make up a lot of your game time. No one is stopping you.
Edited by joeblow - 3/10/13 at 5:00pm
post #340 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

All this random "people now expect" is coming from nowhere. No basis whatsoever for what is simply another opinion.

Apple, Android, Steam, Nintendo, they all offer full digital BC for their products. Thanks especially to Apple, people expect their digital purchases to follow them. This will hurt the push to digital when people learn that all their old purchases will not follow them when they upgrade.
post #341 of 15246
Is it accurate to say Steam offers full backwards compatibility, or is it really Windows that offers it? And I'd be surprised if every game available on Steam will run on Windows 8 without a hiccup.
post #342 of 15246
Thread Starter 
A} There are many, many more examples of BC not being offered on new hardware than not, and B} the ones you list also have similar architecture to its previous gen release when BC is offered. Either that or the previous gen release was easy to emulate since it wasn't a technical beast to begin with.

And trying to use Apple as a comparison example is as apples to oranges as you can get. Let's ignore the fact that they dropped a significant portion of BC when they released OS X on their computers. The phone hardware ecosystem is completely different than the console model.

For one, emulating lower tech hardware is infinitely easier than trying to do so with more advanced systems. And more importantly, if in each of the seven years the PS3 was modestly improved and re-released like the iPhone, then BC makes some sense - that is until Sony completely overhauls the entire architecture which then forces them to make tough choices of whether to spike up the PS4 launch price or offer streaming BC instead. Those are real world choices your scenarios don't even try to deal with when you join the club of those who simply say "make it happen" without detailing how it could be possible.

So, adding around $100 to the launch PS4 is your solution to make full BC happen? It's the easiest thing in the world to whine for something we want, but come up with a viable solution that makes financial sense considering all the challenges involved with launching new hardware.
post #343 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Apple, Android, Steam, Nintendo, they all offer full digital BC for their products. Thanks especially to Apple, people expect their digital purchases to follow them. This will hurt the push to digital when people learn that all their old purchases will not follow them when they upgrade.

I have a Viewsonic Tablet that wont accept any more Android OSs...

Even though it has 1Ghz cpu and a Tegra chipset, NVIDIA doesnt want to support it. So that was that.

Android is supposed to be Open Source... but the Tegra drivers are binary and proprietary.
NVIDIA forced everyone to get new Hardware.

It sucks.
post #344 of 15246
Quote:
So, adding around $100 to the launch PS4 is your solution to make full BC happen? It's the easiest thing in the world to whine for something we want, but come up with a viable solution that makes financial sense considering all the challenges involved with launching new hardware.

I did much earlier in the previous topic. I brought up the hardware add on first, even before the patent for one was found.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367918/playstation-meeting-2013-ps4-unveiling-conference-replay-in-first-post/600#post_22149064
post #345 of 15246
I only expect the BC whining to increase for the forseeable future. Fighting it will only increase the noise. Sony was the first to set the BC precedent, and they carried it through 3 generations, only to abandon it because they built themselves into a corner with the cell. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.
post #346 of 15246
Thread Starter 
That's what it comes down to basically. Still, at least they are trying something to address the situation. Let's see how this Gaikai thingy plays out.
post #347 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

That's what it comes down to basically. Still, at least they are trying something to address the situation. Let's see how this Gaikai thingy plays out.

I have a 150GB monthly cap, I'm screwed. tongue.gif
post #348 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

That's what it comes down to basically. Still, at least they are trying something to address the situation. Let's see how this Gaikai thingy plays out.

people would prefer that the newest system (PS4) to play the older games as well. i mean who wants 3 consoles (ps2/3/4) all connected to the tv at the same time just so that they get to keep thier older library of games. mad.gif its not practical. BC is important to MOST people. hopefully Sony pays more attention to us folks.
post #349 of 15246
I remember reading somewhere that netfilx use was exempt from some providers caps. I have no cap, that I'm aware of, so I don't pay much attention to these types of stories.

They need to get ISPs to allow gaikai the same leeway.
post #350 of 15246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I have a 150GB monthly cap, I'm screwed. tongue.gif
You still have a PS3 to play those PS3 discs and dloads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

people would prefer that the newest system (PS4) to play the older games as well. i mean who wants 3 consoles (ps2/3/4) all connected to the tv at the same time just so that they get to keep thier older library of games. mad.gif its not practical. BC is important to MOST people. hopefully Sony pays more attention to us folks.

I prefer full BC too. However, I recognize that it isn't currently possible with the PS4 architecture being so different than the PS3 so I'll make do like most people will, just like we've made do for 30 years of new console releases. This will be no different.
post #351 of 15246
The funny thing is, people make such a big deal out of BC before a console's launch or in the early stages, then after a while they just no longer care about it and focus on the next gen games, just like what happened with the PS3.

If Microsoft won't offer BC, IMO this won't be an issue for Sony at all. If BC means more cost = higher price tag = less PS4 sales or cutting back on the next gen techs, then I for one would gladly accept the fact that it won't be included.

This is coming from someone who owns a none-BC PS3 and went all the way and bought another launch 60GB PS3 purely for playing PS2 games upscaled, so it's not like I'm the type who doesn't care about such stuff lol (I sold my 60GB later though when I started using PCSX2, it's just too awesome).
post #352 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

You've been playing PC and PS3 then ?

Yup, though I'll also play my PS2 from time to time as well.
post #353 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

A lot of people are going to be angry when their digital purchases don't transfer over. PS3 sales didn't go up because they removed PS2 support, it went up due to price drops and more games coming. Removing PS2 support barely cut costs anyway, so it isn't even a big factor in the price drops.

Sony needs to work on getting every game on the PSN running on the PS4 for those who jumped on the digital bandwagon, otherwise their digital sales will tank, people expect digital content to follow them to new hardware. Same thing goes for Microsoft.

Wasn't there some hubbub about Wii games not transferring over to the WiiU? You'd think these corporations would realize this sort of thing annoys the customers who want to spend money and not run into any hangups.
post #354 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

I am more interested in complete remakes of older PS2 and PS1 games to be honest, not just HD remasters, the best PS3 games aren't bad looking at all.

PS4 FF7 remake, we all know SE will make tons of money from it, but they just aren't willing to do it =(

I've been incredibly disappointed in the Final Fantasy series for at least a decade. I'd pay good money for a PS4 remake of FF6 or FF7. Those games were actually fun... something think Square forgot how to do. Going back and remaking these games could teach them how to do things right again.
post #355 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEPenguin View Post

Wasn't there some hubbub about Wii games not transferring over to the WiiU? You'd think these corporations would realize this sort of thing annoys the customers who want to spend money and not run into any hangups.

People complained that their Virtual Console games didn't work on the gamepad when they transfered over. There were few things that didn't transfer over without issue. (Rockbamd DLC had some issues with at least one person, he had spent thousands on the dlc and it was glitchy when transfered, not sure how he resolved his issue)
post #356 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

(Rockbamd DLC had some issues with at least one person, he had spent thousands on the dlc and it was glitchy when transfered, not sure how he resolved his issue)

A newer version of the Transfer tool copied the songs... Took a couple months before they added that.
(hopefully people didnt immediately sell back their old Wii)

However a couple major problems...

Game status was saved under the old Mii. The Wii-U uses a new Mii, so essentially your game stats are all reset on the Wii-U.
What a horrible horrible thing. 100's of hour of work (and luck) on RB3 down the tubes.

USB instruments on the Wii-U also seem to be flakey. The rumor is that they work better if plugged into a USB hub, and THEN into the Wii-U.
post #357 of 15246
I actually wonder how many PS4's Sony is really wanting to sell during the first year since they'll obviously want to sell a lot of PS3's as well since theirs still big games coming out for it including possibly GT6. Wanting to also sell a bunch of PS3's would be another reason to not have hardware backwards compatibility besides Gaikai. With the release of the PS3 and PS Vita, Sony was still strongly supporting the PS2 and PSP unlike the business strategies of Microsoft and Nintendo which was to sell as many of the new units in the first year as possible. It's true that selling PS2' s was to make sure the PS3 hurts them less financially since they were loosing money per unit. It'll definitely be a gamble for Sony to strongly support the PS3 until perhaps 2015 and still be selling units possibly a year or 2 later (2016/2017). Their are pluses and minuses for both. Imagine how many PS4's they'd be able to sell with a $400 to $450 price tag with full backwords compatibility and then halting PS3 manufacturing by possibly September of 2014. On the one hand, this would stop the PS3 from eating into the sales of the PS4 during the holidays of 2014 but on the other hand, Sony will want the PS3 to compete with the Wii U sort of like what happened with the PS2. I would assume the Wii U have already received a price cut at that time. Heck, halting the PS3 in September of 2015 might be more realistic since that's around the time Sony could lower the price of the PS4.

For sure they'll want to know what kind of pricing strategy Microsoft will do. The leaked documents back then showed a $300 price tag. That seams very unlikely but would be a very bold move on Microsoft's part unless that price included a Live contract. Even if the PS4 ends up being both a little more powerful and easier to develop for, a lower price will offset the PS4's advantage a bit. Theirs also rumors that Microsoft might do contract with cable/satellite providers. Basically the higher tier box would be the 720.. Now that would be smart marketing. As we know, Sony have already turned the PS3 into a DVR if you buy an attachment so it's not surprising if the PS4 ends up being an all in 1 box. If that happens, they might be competing with Microsoft in trying to make deals with cable/satellite providers but theirs already rumors that Microsoft might have already gotten both Comcast and Direct TV on lock-down. Sony would have to try and get companies such Verizon and Dish Network if Microsoft haven't already snatched them since Microsoft might try to have exclusivity agreements meaning the provider is only allowed to offer the 720.
Edited by Paulo Teixeira - 3/11/13 at 10:11am
post #358 of 15246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

As we know, Sony have already turned the PS3 into a DVR if you buy an attachment.

Not in the US.
post #359 of 15246
Yes, I should have mentioned that it's not available in the US. It should. For sure Sony will try other countries and Microsoft might have all the key providers on lock down in the US.
Edited by Paulo Teixeira - 3/11/13 at 10:23am
post #360 of 15246
Since the PS3 supports DTCP-IP, and SiliconDust has the HDHomeRun Prime allowing viewing of cable channels, even copy-once and copy-never channels, it would be pretty simple for Sony to provide the ability of using the PS3/PS4 as a DVR. I watch cable on my PS3 occasionally with the same setup, and it works great.
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