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PlayStation 4 - Page 251

post #7501 of 15423
A 3 year console cycle is crazy. Developers are just starting to get used to the system with a lot of room left to grow at that point and prices are just starting to drop enough to attract many consumers that aren't willing to pay a premium to be an early adapter.

If you want that, go with a PC.
post #7502 of 15423
I wonder if they could implement a tick/tock sort of upgrade. Release a new upgrade version of the console half way through the life with a big premium (ie that is sold on pure profit) that would be purely backwards compatible with the original release just able to play at high framerates/resolutions and more effects. I'd imagine it would work fine for games that aren't "coded to the metal". Whether or not it's a smart venture I wouldn't hazard to guess.
It normally takes 3 years before developers come to grips with a new system anyway.
post #7503 of 15423
5 years worked very well for consoles, and it is where I stand for the perfect upgrade point. Any shorter and you cut the generation short, any longer and it stagnates.
post #7504 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by zBuff View Post

I wonder if they could implement a tick/tock sort of upgrade. Release a new upgrade version of the console half way through the life with a big premium (ie that is sold on pure profit) that would be purely backwards compatible with the original release just able to play at high framerates/resolutions and more effects. I'd imagine it would work fine for games that aren't "coded to the metal". Whether or not it's a smart venture I wouldn't hazard to guess.
It normally takes 3 years before developers come to grips with a new system anyway.

I am almost certain this is actually going to happen.
post #7505 of 15423
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I don't know if everyone knew this but I thought this was kind of important. I always assumed gaikai was a sony/PS4 exclusive thing.

Yeah, it was first suggested that their stuff would be on non-Sony platforms over a month ago. So this recent comment is a followup on that.
post #7506 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

If the hardware/software is easy to develop for then I surmise upgradeability is also easy; I wouldn't mind a PS5 in 2016. If they aren't going to release consoles with removable upgradeable video cards, than at least release a new console every 3 years.

You're joking right? Upgradable video cards? If you want that, and want to be able to upgrade every few years then just buy a PC gaming rig and hook it up to your HDTV. The whole reason I became a console gamer, and continue to only be a console gamer, is because I don't want the hassle of upgrading every few years.

I would be really upset if a PS5 came out in 3 years and now my PS4 played those games on "medium" settings. That's is what I hate about PC gaming. I expect a minimum of a 5 year life cycle for consoles, anything less and we mind as we'll be PC gamers. I have no problem with the length of this generation, folks are still singing praises for the graphics of games like BF4 on the 360 and PS3, especially when compared to launch games for those consoles.

I don't want to have to upgrade a console more often, defeats the purpose of buying a console IMO.
post #7507 of 15423
I have mixed emotions, a shorter cycle gets better hardware but a longer cycle means better use of the hardware.
post #7508 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

A 3 year console cycle is crazy. Developers are just starting to get used to the system with a lot of room left to grow at that point and prices are just starting to drop enough to attract many consumers that aren't willing to pay a premium to be an early adapter.

If you want that, go with a PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

5 years worked very well for consoles, and it is where I stand for the perfect upgrade point. Any shorter and you cut the generation short, any longer and it stagnates.

+1
5 years is perfect. As said, it allows ample time for developers to get to know the system and after 5 yrs tech will have gotten to a point where a new console is welcomed and needed.
post #7509 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

You're joking right? Upgradable video cards? If you want that, and want to be able to upgrade every few years then just buy a PC gaming rig and hook it up to your HDTV. The whole reason I became a console gamer, and continue to only be a console gamer, is because I don't want the hassle of upgrading every few years.

I would be really upset if a PS5 came out in 3 years and now my PS4 played those games on "medium" settings. That's is what I hate about PC gaming. I expect a minimum of a 5 year life cycle for consoles, anything less and we mind as we'll be PC gamers. I have no problem with the length of this generation, folks are still singing praises for the graphics of games like BF4 on the 360 and PS3, especially when compared to launch games for those consoles.

I don't want to have to upgrade a console more often, defeats the purpose of buying a console IMO.

But if you don't care about graphics enough that you'd want a new console every three years, why would it bother you to play on medium settings?
post #7510 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Negative.

As a lifelong consolr gamer i can tell you ith certainty that most console gamers hve no desire to upgrade to a new console every 3 years. 5 years is the niminum. i would not relish spending $400-$500 every three years on new hardware.

Wouldn't that also greatly fragment the market?
post #7511 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Wouldn't that also greatly fragment the market?

No, the architecture they're using in the consoles is extremely scalable. It'd be no different than two models of graphics cards from the same series. The same game code would run perfectly fine on both at different settings, just like on PC.
post #7512 of 15423
It's all a moot point since there's no way that Sony and Microsoft will be doing this.

They will evolve just like they did this time. Slim systems down, make systems more efficient, make them quieter and run cooler, increase the storage, add pack-in titles, lower prices, change what's included like removing Kinect or tossing in an extra controller or free subscription to XBL/PSN, etc.

There's zero evidence that things will be any different so there's no reason to worry or even debate this.
post #7513 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

It's all a moot point since there's no way that Sony and Microsoft will be doing this.

They will evolve just like they did this time. Slim systems down, make systems more efficient, make them quieter and run cooler, increase the storage, add pack-in titles, lower prices, change what's included like removing Kinect or tossing in an extra controller or free subscription to XBL/PSN, etc.

There's zero evidence that things will be any different so there's no reason to worry or even debate this.

I can see the next console as potentially having an upgradeable GPU, especially with Sony's architecture. Developers will be able to have the game scalable so that titles will be able to run on the lowest setting but also be able to run on higher setting in the future. They should be able to double or triple the life of the console by this,
post #7514 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

No, the architecture they're using in the consoles is extremely scalable. It'd be no different than two models of graphics cards from the same series. The same game code would run perfectly fine on both at different settings, just like on PC.

That is what I hate about the PC, different settings. I love consoles because no matter when or what you buy, you are getting the best the platform can offer. I'd hate to know that because I didn't by the newest version of a console my games would run on a lower setting. You don't think it is great knowing that a PS4 game bought 6 years from now will run at the best the platform can offer without you having to put another penny into the hardware?

I don't buy PC games because I know my PC can't run them at the top settings for the platform and the person across the street pays the same price but gets a better experience. I don't want to pay top dollar for a game when my experience will not be a top dollar one. Consoles don't have that problem, you get the best experience whether you buy at launch or 5 years after launch. That's what makes them great.

I think it would fragment the market and I also disagree that this is the direction the market is heading. If it does, then the PS4 will be the last console I buy. I have no interest in getting caught up in a frequent upgrade battle to get the best out of a platform.
post #7515 of 15423
SteamBox is coming guys smile.gif I think that will more likely scratch that itch and make PC gaming even more streamlined and painless. Yeah I know you won't get those great playstation exclusives, but I really can't see Sony doing this, Microsoft is more likely to do it than Sony given their development framework
post #7516 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

That is what I hate about the PC, different settings. I love consoles because no matter when or what you buy, you are getting the best the platform can offer. I'd hate to know that because I didn't by the newest version of a console my games would run on a lower setting. You don't think it is great knowing that a PS4 game bought 6 years from now will run at the best the platform can offer without you having to put another penny into the hardware?

I don't buy PC games because I know my PC can't run them at the top settings for the platform and the person across the street pays the same price but gets a better experience. I don't want to pay top dollar for a game when my experience will not be a top dollar one. Consoles don't have that problem, you get the best experience whether you buy at launch or 5 years after launch. That's what makes them great.

I think it would fragment the market and I also disagree that this is the direction the market is heading. If it does, then the PS4 will be the last console I buy. I have no interest in getting caught up in a frequent upgrade battle to get the best out of a platform.

You're just in a platform bubble though. If the guy down the street has a gaming PC, he's getting a better experience. If you're on a PS4, you're prob getting a better experience than an X1, certainly better than current gen.

Whether or not there's a PS4.5 won't change the experience you get on a PS4. You'll still be getting the best the PS4 can offer.
post #7517 of 15423
Knowing that there's something better changes my experience. It's why I likely won't be buying any multiplatform releases that are on both generations of PS/Xbox hardware. I'd just as assume wait to play such a game until I do acquire these two new systems.
post #7518 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

Knowing that there's something better changes my experience. It's why I likely won't be buying any multiplatform releases that are on both generations of PS/Xbox hardware. I'd just as assume wait to play such a game until I do acquire these two new systems.

Sure, but aren't you glad you finally have the opportunity to do so? It'd be nice if that rolled around more often.

Consoles have never been about offering the best experience. Just a functional, hassle free one. Having two or more tiers per platform wouldn't change that one bit.
post #7519 of 15423
Console gaming is all about a level playing field for competitive game play. Don have to upgrade video cards twice a year and a lot less cheating going on compared to PC land...
post #7520 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

Console gaming is all about a level playing field for competitive game play. Don have to upgrade video cards twice a year and a lot less cheating going on compared to PC land...

There's nothing level about the playing field on consoles...the quality of your A/V setup, 3rd party controllers....these things prob make more of a difference competitively than the resolution you're running.
post #7521 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Sure, but aren't you glad you finally have the opportunity to do so? It'd be nice if that rolled around more often.

Consoles have never been about offering the best experience. Just a functional, hassle free one. Having two or more tiers per platform wouldn't change that one bit.

If a console lasted 8 years before replacement like the Xbox 360 did, there'd be no better console version to want that leaves the existing product seemingly inferior. And financially I appreciate that.

And with how Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 software has always noticeably improved and better pushed the hardware each year, I've always scratched that itch to see advancement. It's only when they've largely tapped that well dry that I like seeing a reboot. But even this year, releases like Grand Theft Auto V and The Last of Us showed that there was still at least a bit of room there compared to just a year ago for growth.

So I'm quite happy it lasted 7-8 years. And I look forward to more releases that are exclusive to the 360 and/or PS3 and I'd even buy games on these older systems that appear on both generations of hardware if there's no real advantage to the next gen version (Such as if Midway Arcade Origins from last year were to see a sequel).

But games I know have a better version on next gen hardware or likely will if I'm patient (GTA V for instance seems so obvious). suddenly I won't be satisfied. That's why I don't like this updating proposal and wouldn't be happy even if my PS4 can still play PS4.5 games on reduced graphics settings.

I'd still know there was a better console option so that pushes me into spending more money and waiting until I do. So I want this generation to last until developers have pushed them about as far as they can go, be it 3 years, 5 years, 8 years, or maybe even 10.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 11/3/13 at 9:36pm
post #7522 of 15423
These last 2 pages have made me happy. I fired a rocket! biggrin.gif

Some of the posters' financial bias is clouding ability to see the big picture and cast vision.
Mark it, I'm calling it, PS5 in Q4 2016.
post #7523 of 15423
A game made for PS4/PS5 doesn't mean the PS4 has reduced graphics, that's nonsensical. Several posters have stated that idea.

There is a clearly a general misunderstanding of scalability.
post #7524 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post


If a console lasted 8 years before replacement like the Xbox 360 did, there'd be no better console version to want that leaves the existing product seemingly inferior. And financially I appreciate that.

And with how Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 software has always noticeably improved and better pushed the hardware each year, I've always scratched that itch to see advancement. It's only when they've largely tapped that well dry that I like seeing a reboot. But even this year, releases like Grand Theft Auto V and The Last of Us showed that there was still at least a bit of room there compared to just a year ago for growth.

So I'm quite happy it lasted 7-8 years. And I look forward to more releases that are exclusive to the 360 and/or PS3 and I'd even buy games on these older systems that appear on both generations of hardware if there's no real advantage to the next gen version (Such as if Midway Arcade Origins from last year were to see a sequel).

But games I know have a better version on next gen hardware or likely will if I'm patient (GTA V for instance seems so obvious). suddenly I won't be satisfied. That's why I don't like this updating proposal and wouldn't be happy even if my PS4 can still play PS4.5 games on reduced graphics settings.

I'd still know there was a better console option so that pushes me into spending more money and waiting until I do. So I want this generation to last until developers have pushed them about as far as they can go, be it 3 years, 5 years, 8 years, or maybe even 10.

 

Well, good luck ignoring the steambox then, assuming it lives up to the hype. I know the feeling you describe, it's what drives me to buy a new video card every year or two, but I do it with a smile on my face.  All my old games look that much better, and it's like that new console feeling all over again. I know I'm getting exactly the experience I'm willing to pay for, and I'm not arbitrarily limited by a decision made half a decade ago.  

 

The best part is, you say you don't want it, yet seem to admit you wont be able to resist....and that's why they're going to do it.

post #7525 of 15423
Well if you guys really think they will release new consoles in 3 years, you're crazy. They'll never do it. Half the people who bought the 360/PS3 wouldn't even have bought a PS4/X1 by then and it would alienate those who have.

Steambox holds no interest for me, I've read all the hype and I don't care for it at all because it's upgrade cycle will be like PC gaming. It's not about always having the very best graphics on the planet, I buy consoles because I know they are going to offer me a 5+ year of enjoyment at the top of there game. A 3 year cycle is just to short and the full potential of the the PS4 will not have even been tapped by then. Launching something new would under mind that potential. I don't think this generation will last as long as the 360/PS3 but, no way they shorten it to just 3 years.
post #7526 of 15423
Quote:
I don't buy PC games because I know my PC can't run them at the top settings for the platform and the person across the street pays the same price but gets a better experience. I don't want to pay top dollar for a game when my experience will not be a top dollar one. Consoles don't have that problem, you get the best experience whether you buy at launch or 5 years after launch. That's what makes them great.

Back when it was SNES/Genesis/Playstation/N64, maybe. But even the newer consoles have updates to fix graphical glitches on games and so forth these days, just like a PC. And if you're talking about top dollar, you are surely only talking about brand new games. You can get slightly older games on steam for cheap, and if they go on sale it's almost ridiculous how inexpensive some of the games are. You will never get these prices on a console. If you are talking about the "best experience" in a game on a console that has been out for 5+ years, what you are really saying is that the developers have optimized the game to run fluidly on the system. What that probably means is they've had to dumb down the graphics, remove AA and anisotropic filtering, etc (assuming it's multiplatform - PC included). Much the same as you would have to do for a newer PC game running on an older computer. The only difference is you'd have to optimize it yourself instead of having the developers do it for you. Exclusive console games sometimes push the envelope, but they are few and far between (Last of Us being a good example, but it also has some pretty nasty compromises in order to make it look pretty).

Don't get me wrong, I've been a console gamer for years and have owned pretty much every one conceivable, but this generation I honestly feel that PC gaming trumps consoles. A decent PC will run the same game faster and better than it will on even the next gen consoles, so I don't see the point. I may be swayed by exclusives down the road, but time will tell...

PS - I'm playing Dark Souls on my PC in 1080p @60fps. The PS3 one runs at 720p and, if you know the game, Blighttown hovers in the single digits in terms of fps. Optimized my arse.
post #7527 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

And @ambesolman

You clearly skipped the last part, so it's moot with your logic.
Links for your certainty about how all console gamers feel about upgrading, or was that anecdotal guesstimates?
If we are talking guesses my guess is that the PS4 didn't sellout globally in a week because console gamers are globally nonchalant about upgrading.
And if I'm ready to upgrade in 3 years and you aren't then Sony should cater to not selling?
I'm being trolled right?

Not at all.

And i never claimed to speak for all console gamers, but i've been around this hobby long enough to have an educated guess that "most" (meaning likely more than half, otherwise known as the majority) of console gamers wouldnt want to upgrade any sooner than 5 years. especially with the increased cost of a new console compared to previous generations of consoles where the buy in was well under $400.

However i will acknowledge that the success of the xbox brand has seemingly brough a lot of previous PC gamers into the console space. these were people used to upgrading their video cards and ram every 1-2 years to keep up with the latest tech (which generally meant switching to a new motherboard inside of three years once you've maxed out your ram and cpu) and this mentallity may have filtered down to the console gamer (on the xbox side of the fence) as a consequence of this. so my feelings on this matter may simply be outdated.

As a matter of course, i do think a 7 year lifecycle is too long. 5 years is pretty much a perfect cycle for these things. (Thats not to say i dont think the consoles shouls last 7+ years....they absolutely can, look at the life of the ps1 and ps2. in just think the successor should come out about the 5 year mark. two console generations can coexist simultaneously as has been proven in past generations)
post #7528 of 15423
That "better experience" is subjective though. many of the multiplats released on the ps2 were significantly superior on the xbox and vastly superior on a high-end gaming rig, but i didnt notice because i never saw any of those other versions, so the fun i had on the ps2 was just as intense to me as the guy playing on a multi thousand dollar gaming pc.
post #7529 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

That "better experience" is subjective though. many of the multiplats released on the ps2 were significantly superior on the xbox and vastly superior on a high-end gaming rig, but i didnt notice because i never saw any of those other versions, so the fun i had on the ps2 was just as intense to me as the guy playing on a multi thousand dollar gaming pc.

How would you know? You never saw them. tongue.gif

Back when I was in high school and didn't have a job I really didn't want the n64 to come out so soon. The truth was I just couldn't afford it, but I made the same arguments...how we just weren't ready, that the SNES just wasn't done yet. Nowadays, I'd buy a new console every year if I could.
post #7530 of 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

That "better experience" is subjective though. many of the multiplats released on the ps2 were significantly superior on the xbox and vastly superior on a high-end gaming rig, but i didnt notice because i never saw any of those other versions, so the fun i had on the ps2 was just as intense to me as the guy playing on a multi thousand dollar gaming pc.

Once you have bought a console you are going to support it regardless of how good or bad it is. Most people who got the PS2 got it because of the Success of the PS1. But like you said you never saw another version. Even if you had you were already locked in and likely couldn't do anything about it anyway.

The world is a different place then it was when the PS2 was released.and today's connected nature allow people to see the real world differences and news instantly,. You still have some peoples undying allegiance to a brand which is too bad. But most people I believe are reading the articles and will read the reviews and comparisons (and by most people I mean the people who buy next year)

MS can BS their early adopters with Balance all they want but they will need to prove it over the next few months. they need to to keep as many people dialed in as possible. Sony is going to be able to maintain a higher Framerate and/or Resolution far longer then the XB1. Currently when Sony is sacrificing it is doing so by a single step of either FR or RES but never both (Killzone SP 1080P/30, BF4 900P/60 are good examples) and we already have seen the XB1 Multiplat equivalents drop 2 steps in resolution like in COD and BF4 720/60 or one of each like Ryse at 900P/30 .

Multiplats will tell the full story over the next 12 months, especially those which are graphics intensive.
Edited by samendolaro - 11/4/13 at 5:32am
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