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PlayStation 4 - Page 33

post #961 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

the PS3 is Fat-32 today. That has a disk size restriction as its 32-bit.

I wonder if Microsoft will sell Sony the rights to use NTFS this time around ?

Why would they pay MS? Why not use something like exFAT?
post #962 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

the PS3 is Fat-32 today. That has a disk size restriction as its 32-bit.

I wonder if Microsoft will sell Sony the rights to use NTFS this time around ?

No it is not, and no they won't. The PS3 uses a UFS based file system. The PS4 is supposed to use BSD, so probably more UFS related again.
post #963 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You're right. They pay more.

Which is why MSONY are both looking at subsidized subscription models as well.

How do they end up paying more? At least in the US you pay a price for service regardless of whether the phone is subsidized or not. You don't get a discount if you bring your own phone or are off contract. The only thing subsidizing does is lock you into a contract for 2 or 3 years.
post #964 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

How do they end up paying more? At least in the US you pay a price for service regardless of whether the phone is subsidized or not. You don't get a discount if you bring your own phone or are off contract. The only thing subsidizing does is lock you into a contract for 2 or 3 years.

MS charges a higher rate for XBL if you buy their subsidized Xbox 360. When you do the math, those people end up spending like $60 more over the two years.

I think it'd be really ballsy to do that out of the gate.
post #965 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

How do they end up paying more? At least in the US you pay a price for service regardless of whether the phone is subsidized or not. You don't get a discount if you bring your own phone or are off contract. The only thing subsidizing does is lock you into a contract for 2 or 3 years.

Time value of money.

You break the contract, you pay a ETF that is usually a little bit more than the depreciated value of the phone. You don't, and the value is written off because you're already overpaying for you service plan in the first place after being locked in for 24 months. Since they offer those upgrades to everyone, they're already charging you more for service in the first place to offer them, right?

You're better finding a MVNO that works for you and buying your phone at full price, just as you're better insuring it through a 3rd party, private insurance. Easily can buy a phone full price and still save $1000 over those 24 months with the same level of service. Not to mention it allows easier (cost effective) upgrading (sell your old phone, buy the new toy).

"subsidized" contracts are around for a reason. They appear to give you a deal, but they're just offloading a greater total cost to a later date. Doesn't mean they're bad, but they're absolutely not cheaper.
post #966 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Time value of money.

You break the contract, you pay a ETF that is usually a little bit more than the depreciated value of the phone. You don't, and the value is written off because you're already overpaying for you service plan in the first place after being locked in for 24 months. Since they offer those upgrades to everyone, they're already charging you more for service in the first place to offer them, right?

You're better finding a MVNO that works for you and buying your phone at full price, just as you're better insuring it through a 3rd party, private insurance. Easily can buy a phone full price and still save $1000 over those 24 months with the same level of service. Not to mention it allows easier (cost effective) upgrading (sell your old phone, buy the new toy).

"subsidized" contracts are around for a reason. They appear to give you a deal, but they're just offloading a greater total cost to a later date. Doesn't mean they're bad, but they're absolutely not cheaper.

I do not think this was the case a few years ago but some of the carriers are really cutting the price for prepaid service so the contracts are now more expensive than prepaid. At one time, prepaid was for people that could not qualify for a contract and was more expensive. I will not get another contract when mine is up.
post #967 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

MS charges a higher rate for XBL if you buy their subsidized Xbox 360. When you do the math, those people end up spending like $60 more over the two years.

I think it'd be really ballsy to do that out of the gate.

True. It's definitely worth paying the full year up front, no doubt. Some people though just want that monthly charge that they don't think about. If you factor it out they're paying and extra 2.5/mo versus buying a system and 2 years of live (using a 250GB or 4GB + Kinect as the baseline) . I think it'd be a smart move by MS to offer this subsidy option right out the gate. In this case yes people are paying more for the experience over the long haul but I doubt many care if it means they can get a system they might not have 300 + 60 for. It will probably end up being a success to be honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Time value of money.

You break the contract, you pay a ETF that is usually a little bit more than the depreciated value of the phone. You don't, and the value is written off because you're already overpaying for you service plan in the first place after being locked in for 24 months. Since they offer those upgrades to everyone, they're already charging you more for service in the first place to offer them, right?

You're better finding a MVNO that works for you and buying your phone at full price, just as you're better insuring it through a 3rd party, private insurance. Easily can buy a phone full price and still save $1000 over those 24 months with the same level of service. Not to mention it allows easier (cost effective) upgrading (sell your old phone, buy the new toy).

"subsidized" contracts are around for a reason. They appear to give you a deal, but they're just offloading a greater total cost to a later date. Doesn't mean they're bad, but they're absolutely not cheaper.

Sure, the lock-in and ETF is what gets you but if you're going to stay with a carrier for multiple years it doesn't make a difference. You don't get a discount on service after you're out of contract (or if you bring your own device) so aside from having freedom to choose what carrier you want to go with there's not as much value in it. I think it depends on how often people carrier jump. Also if you upgrade and sell your old device on a frequent basis. If I carrier jump and/or sell my phone before a standard lock-in contract is up then yes, it makes more fiscal sense to either do prepaid or monthly with no subsidized phone. If you stay with a carrier for years at a time then subsidizing a phone isn't a bad choice at all. You can probably do better on your own with insurance of course. Those not insuring their phones do so at their own peril.
post #968 of 15247
I suppose when you do the math and it does roughly add up to an extra $2.50 a month for the first two years, it doesn't sound too terrible.

The part that bothers me is that they're doing it in lieu of taking a hit on the console in the first few years. They're trying to have their cake and eat it too - they're trying to make a profit on every box from day one, push the subsidy onto the consumer, and squeeze out a few extra bucks while they're at it. It's either incredibly arrogant, or incredibly brilliant...but it's really ballsy. Meanwhile Sony is probably going to go the traditional route and take a small hit. They must be supremely confident in their platform if they're going to try this. We may be looking at a situation where the more powerful PS4 costs $400ish for the full package, vs the nextbox costing far more over time, but significantly cheaper on day one if you take their devil's bargain. I can't really forsee how that would play out.

This of course assumes its $300/$500 like the rumors. If its $200/400....that's gonna make a great case for itself.
Edited by bd2003 - 5/11/13 at 3:36pm
post #969 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Sure, the lock-in and ETF is what gets you but if you're going to stay with a carrier for multiple years it doesn't make a difference. You don't get a discount on service after you're out of contract (or if you bring your own device) so aside from having freedom to choose what carrier you want to go with there's not as much value in it. I think it depends on how often people carrier jump. Also if you upgrade and sell your old device on a frequent basis. If I carrier jump and/or sell my phone before a standard lock-in contract is up then yes, it makes more fiscal sense to either do prepaid or monthly with no subsidized phone. If you stay with a carrier for years at a time then subsidizing a phone isn't a bad choice at all. You can probably do better on your own with insurance of course. Those not insuring their phones do so at their own peril.

It's only recently become more viable, but you can now easily get the same service for 1/2 the costs on MVNO's. With the carriers going to data caps, there now no reason to stay with them. And as said, in or out of contract, their standard contract price is just them passing on the costs of subsidizing phones plus a few bucks in their pockets. They're charging everyone to offer those subsidies in higher priced plans, which don't really make them subsidies. They're just shifting costs to later dates where people seem them less as a barrier to getting into a plan.

I've looked at the math, and I can easily save $1100 over 24th months buying a smartphone outright and getting the same service through one of the piggyback carriers. The MVNO's are also using the big 3 cell networks too, so you're pretty much getting the same exact service.

In the end, the point is the big carriers know what they're doing, and they're not taking a hit on hardware in the end because why would they? They just charge you $10-20 more a month for a standard contract and shift the accounting around to make you think you're stealing from them, when in fact it's the other way around.
post #970 of 15247
No doubt the carriers are getting one over on everyone. It's their world and unfortunately there's not much we can do about it when they also have the govt. in their back pocket. I actually agree with you somewhat; I buy my phones outright. The problem for me is no LTE on GSM where I live if I go with an MVNO. Also I tether currently and that's not an option apparently. There are some definite issues should I want to go away from post-paid service.
Edited by pcweber111 - 5/11/13 at 4:30pm
post #971 of 15247
post #972 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

Edit: Nevermind... it's fake.

Man, the fakes are getting hard to spot - very slick and professionally done.
post #973 of 15247
That's a lot of work for fake
post #974 of 15247
Too bad it's fake because that PS4 looks awesome. I doubt the real one will live up to it.
post #975 of 15247
I hope that's fake because eh I'm not impressed at all. Looks too busy.
post #976 of 15247
Looks good to me, if it were real I'm happy it's flat. Now I can put something on top of it if I want. But, I'll say it again, the looks of a console mean nothing to me. It could be purple, red, yellow, and green, and shaped like a roach, and it would not matter to me. I don't buy consoles for looks. Mine are hidden in cabinets.
post #977 of 15247
Fake!

Stop the video at 0.26 when all the logo's of formats and audio-codecs show up.
- It shows the logo of Dolby Digital, but not Dolby TrueHD?
- It shows the logo of Compact Disc. But weren't we told that the PS4 can not play CD's anymore?
post #978 of 15247
How do we know it's fake? Could just be something the marketing department came up with to shoot to the higher ups. Could have just been using an early prototype model. Not saying the box will look anything like that, but it could definitely be something internal that the marketing team put together when they were just coming up with ideas. It definitely has the right mix of "hip" people, different races ,genders, and age ranges that marketing departments like to try to mix in.

Or... maybe it's fake.
Edited by RemoWilliams84 - 5/14/13 at 11:13am
post #979 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

How do we know it's fake?

Sony has stated the ad is a fake. They usually don't respond to rumors, and if it turns out to be real, this proclamation would make them look bad when it's revealed.

Maybe this prototype is the real thing and the ad is a fake, but I would bet both are fake. If it's real, I hope that Tron-like light strip (which is cool), can be dimmed or turned off.
post #980 of 15247
Pretty slick for a fake. The icons in the eyes thing is pretty cool.

This is probably a PS4 fan that's looking for a production design job, so they made themselves a pretty strong resume' entry. They should hire this kid tbh.
post #981 of 15247
Very good job on the fake. I would have believed it.
post #982 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poepsnor View Post

- It shows the logo of Compact Disc. But weren't we told that the PS4 can not play CD's anymore?

Really? That doesn't make any sense. Blu-ray players/drives can play CD's. Why would the PS4 possibly not be able to?
post #983 of 15247
Anyone else kinda disappointed that GT6 was announced for the PS3? This would have been a killer launch title for the PS4 considering how much this game sells and I personally know many people who buy the console purely for GT.

It's understandable that they'd like to make some more money out of the PS3 before PS4 comes though.
post #984 of 15247
I agree that it makes no sense. As one of the developers of the CD format, does Sony even pay licensing on the technology? The speculation is all based on a Japanese interview with a Sony executive. I will believe it when the specs are released.
post #985 of 15247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Anyone else kinda disappointed that GT6 was announced for the PS3? This would have been a killer launch title for the PS4 considering how much this game sells and I personally know many people who buy the console purely for GT.

It's understandable that they'd like to make some more money out of the PS3 before PS4 comes though.

Well, they want to have their cake and eat it too. It'll be successful on the PS3, and since the series' director hinted at an eventual PS4 release that will import PS3 saves, it'll do well on that platform as well.

Add to that the fact that Sony will have only one 1st party PS4 racing game at launch in DriveClub for even more revenue from the genreas they establish a new franchise and you can see that the strategy actually makes good business sense all around.

As for me, I won't double dip on the franchise. I plan to stick with the PS4 for my driving games by keeping an eye on DriveClub for a possible purchase, and then wait for GT6 Super HD hopefully sometime next year.
post #986 of 15247
I don't know anything about this GT6 announcement or any history of the development. But I could imagine they might be doing it because the coding is well on it's way, so why stop now and switch it over. Or maybe they are coding for both and that's been the plan for the entire development cycle.
post #987 of 15247
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-killzone-shadow-fall

A pretty epic post-mortem of the KZSF demo at the reveal, with some commentary by eurogamer. The full PowerPoint presentation is included, but this is some really hardcore game dev stuff.

The takeaway - It's basically as if they treated the PS4 as a PC, and have barely begun to start taking advantage of its specifics. The demo used only 4.5 GB of memory, didnt use any significant PS4 low level optimization, and barely used any of the compute functionality of the GPU. A lot of code that should be running on the GPU is still running on the CPUs. Basically as expected for a first gen game, confirming that its a really poor demonstration of what the PS4 will eventually be capable of. Still looks very impressive considering all that....but 2-3 years from now, I think its fair to expect much better graphics than this, even at 60fps.
post #988 of 15247
Thread Starter 
Also note that the developer states they are working on a new, original IP as well. A lot of their PS4-specific tech tricks will likely show up in that game since they will have had time to mess around with the final dev kit.
Edited by joeblow - 5/15/13 at 6:47pm
post #989 of 15247
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Also note that the developer states they are working on a new, original IP as well. A lot of their PS4-spcific tech tricks will likely show up in that game since they will have had time to mes around with the final dev kit.

Yep....I still think its kind of crazy any of this is being publicized. They're really reaching out to the techies, really unusual in the console space. From day one they haven't been shy about going into exhaustive detail on everything. I absolutely love it, I wish we'd see more of it. I was in Seattle a few days ago, at the closing of an exhibit on the art of video games, and they had a few talks, one of them was co-hosted by the sucker punch sound engineer. He talked a lot about what he was doing with second son, how they're not using as much canned ambience anymore, but literally every tweeting bird and passing car is an individual sound. When I see that they're keeping 550mb of sound data in memory, which is more than the entire system memory of the current gen....I guess that's where all that memory is going. And that's barely more than half of the memory they have to play with.....I can't wait to see what they come up with in a few years on that front. I also thought it was interesting how they went all out on the number of polys in the KZ models, and basically admitted it made little difference. They don't even know what to do with the fraction of power they've already extracted....they've barely begun to rethink their approach to development.

I think he also mentioned sucker punch was also working on something new....but he didn't say anything about it.
Edited by bd2003 - 5/15/13 at 6:27pm
post #990 of 15247
All this tech talk has me very interested. Sony has captured the attention of the tech junkies, but I have to wonder what their strategy to get the average gamer's attention will be. You can only get so many sales from people like us and the fans of your brand. (Look at the Wii U and Vita struggling to get people to buy them) hopefully Sony has something ready to go to get them interested.
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