madVR v0.86.0 released - with Smooth Motion - Page 2

Thanks! I saw how to do this on the xbmc website. Thanks!

Further experimentation shows that it depends heavily on the image upscaling algorithm. I was upscaling the 720p source to 1080p, using either bilinear or DXVA2, and the flickering on the bottom strip black bars was terrible with SM on. However, when I zoomed my MPC-HC window to 100% (720p) so that image upscaling was no longer required, then the black-stripe flickering went down significantly. I also think the flickering is less with Lanczos upscaling, but I did not get a good test on that because my test system struggles to do Lanczos 720p -> 1080p at 60Hz.

A 1080p version of the test files would be handy for a situation like this.

Ah yes, I've always tested these smoothMotion test patterns with 100% (without any scaling). These alternating black & white lines are *really* mean. Maybe I should have excluded them from the test pattern. But then, a test pattern has the purpose of showing extreme cases without mercy.

Well the only time I noticed it is when I play a 3D blu ray image with TMT5. That's the only time my tv will go to 24p I believe and when I exit TMT5 my HTPC or Nvidia won't auto switch back from that 3D resolution and I notice that mediabrowser looks washed out a bit and movements aren't smooth when navigating....

Oh and the blu ray will play fine. Maybe something to do with TMT5 smoothing things out? I dunno.

Could this result in less audio clock jitter for HDMI transmission from a server to a prepro? Is the reduction in audio clock jitter only important for video playback or does it result in less jitter for audio playback, especially over HDMI as well?

I run my 1080p projector at 48Hz (really 47.953) - I believe it is technically 24PsF - windows seems to think it is an interlaced display, or at least some parts of windows (Win7) seem to think that it is 1080i. But that has never been a problem when playing back progressive material.


When I play a 60hz video with smooth motion in madvr 0.86 it works great - totally smoothed it out for 48Hz on my projector. But if I play a 24hz or 30Hz video (or their near neighbors like 23.976Hz) with smooth motion on it goes all flickery, kind of like each frame is out of order. If i turn off smooth motion then the flicker goes away. If It matters, I left reclock in the chain for all of my tests, but since the audio is bitstreamed, I don't think reclock was fiddling with anything.
Edited by JerryW - 2/23/13 at 6:31am

The Smooth Motion Test Patterns did not play for me be either drag and drop or by loading them using the load File from the menu.

Did you run the install.bat program and of course not move the directory once you have - a bit like madVR itself? Once the *.ax file is registered you should be able to drag and drop the test files into MPC-HC or double click on them once you have set MPC-HC to be the default program for the *.ytp files.

I have the test patterns in a different location than MadVR. Is this the issue?

No. madTestPatternSource.ax can be anywhere. But once madTestPatternSource.ax is registered (by double clicking "install.bat" or by using regsvr32.exe), don't move madTestPatternSource.ax elsewhere, because the file path is part of the registration information. (The two files install.bat and InstallFilter.exe must be in the same folder as madTestPatternSource.ax to register it, of course.)

Test patterns .ytp themselves can be anywhere, just like other video files.
Edited by renethx - 2/23/13 at 2:56pm

Is this supposed to help with playing back 25fps content on a 24hz/60hz capable TV?

Okay, so if I want to move them I need to re-register them? Also, can I do that with madVR itself?

The problem is that they are not playing in MPC-HC. All I see is the start up logo and nothing else in MPC-HC.

Although I was unable to play the test patterns for some reason, enabling Smooth Motion in madVR makes 25fps smoother for sure on a 120Hz TV... Or it was placebo effect.

If you move a DirectShow filter (extension .ax), re-registering it is always necessary.

"can I do that with madVR itself": do what?

Are you using madVR 0.86 or 0.86.1? An older version won't support smfrc.

Yes, "smooth motion" frame rate changer (FRC) can convert any source frame rate ("a" fps) to any display refresh rate ("b" Hz), while maintaining smooth motion. Some sharpness loss occurs. In general,

If a << b (e.g. a = 24 or 25 and b = 60), sharpness loss is minimal, often invisible.
If a ~ b or a > b (e.g. a = 24 and b = 24, or a = 60 and b = 24), sharpness loss is visible.
Edited by renethx - 2/23/13 at 3:57pm

I can move madVR to another folder but then I will have to re-register it, right? Right now it is in my download folder which is pretty lame on my part.

I downloaded 0.86.1. I have SMFRC set to on. I saw good improvement with the 25fps source I tested output at 59.999fps on my 120Hz TV. I have not been able to check the test videos.

why would one go from a = 24 to b = 24 using SMFRC?

Yes. I usually place all programs without installer in C:\ProgramData (e.g. C:\ProgramData\madVR) instead of C:\Program Files (x86) to avoid write permission problems (these simple programs often write setting files in the same folder).

Then the only possible reason is madTestPatternSource.ax is not registered properly. Do you see madTestPatternSource in MPC-HC > External Filters > the Select Filter list? (You don't have to add it to External Filters though.) If it is not registered, you will see "Cannot render the file" message in the status bar of MPC-HC when you try to play a .ytp file.
Edited by renethx - 2/23/13 at 4:46pm

I don't know.

@Madshi,
Thanks for this great addition.
Is there a plan to make smoothmotion display specific and framerate specific, along the lines of the display modes setting? My projector doesn't need smoothmotion, but my computer display benefits from it, except at 59 and 60Hz...

Well, if you set smooth motion frc to "only when there would be judder otherwise" (or whatever the option was named exactly) then it should auto turn off for your projector and auto turn on for your computer display. Does that not work as expected?

I'll try and report ;-)

I would start again by running the madVR 'unistall.bat' and the madtestpatterns unistall.bat. You can then delete all the relevant directories. Reinstall 0.86x and the madtestpatterns into your c:\program files (x86) folder and run 'install.bat' on both. [I had a problem getting 086 to run properly and it turned out to be aold version of madVR screwing things up. You will not lose your madVR settings as they are held in the registry.

I have found that I get better results with smooth motion set to "only when needed" during playback of 23.976fps Blu-ray rips. To me this means that my HDTV properly handles this frame rate without further assistance.

I also noticed that it indicates smooth motion as "off" in the stats screen when it is set like this.

Would smooth motion be used in lieu of (i.e. give better results) than the auto-refresh rate switching? Or should SM be used in conjunction with auto-refresh? I've only tried it on my TV and not on the projector, but it seems I get better results if disabling auto-refresh and using SM alone. In this case, the 23 Hz pattern is more smooth on a 60 Hz refresh rate, vs having auto-refresh switch to 23 Hz and playing the same pattern.
Edited by Anon E Maus - 2/25/13 at 8:13pm

With a properly working TV using refresh rate switching to 23Hz should be preferable, because it should produce just as smooth results as madVR's smooth motion FRC, with less work for madVR and without any negative side effects. However, some displays are not able to handle 23Hz well (or not at all) and in that case you might get better results using 60Hz with madVR's smooth motion FRC enabled. In the end, trust your eyes which looks better. If you say that using 60Hz with FRC on looks smoother then it's quite possible that your TV internally converts the 23fps input to 60Hz by using 3:2 pulldown. Which is reintroducing pulldown judder. In that case using 60Hz with FRC should produce better results.

So should I try not using frame rate switching and SMFRC set to ??? instead with 60Hz on the TV to see how that looks? I still haven't been able to get those test pattern files to play in MPC-HC. I am not sure if what I am seeing is 3:2 judder or just 24fps film source because the eye can see that in panned shots even in the theater. It doesn't look like there's extra frames in the picture; it is just 24fps which I can see at the movie theater too in action and or panned shots.

If you are outputting 24p content at 60Hz, you need Smooth Motion.
If you are outputting 24p content at 24Hz, you either need ReClock, JRiver Video Clock, or Smooth Motion.

ReClock and VideoClock work to sync to your exact refresh rate by resampling audio.
Smooth Motion works to sync to your exact refresh rate by blending video frames.


Resampling audio is a transparent process, but it breaks bitstreaming. (bitstreaming is pointless though)

Frame blending is something that you might be able to see depending on your display.

I found that the motion in the picture looked bad using SMFRC with 23.976fps content so I set it to "when needed" and it looks good again. The statistics screen shows SMFRC as "off" when using this setting so I guess it wasn't needed in my case.

With ReClock you lose HD Audio, correct? This is not an acceptable solution for me. I do not even hear/see whatever is supposed to be corrected by ReClock as it looks and sounds fantastic as it is already so why would I want to add another level of complexity to it?

I am not using JRiver as I do not like their interface, need WMC for CableTV with DRM and MB is already set up to use MPC-HC.
Edited by Sammy2 - 2/26/13 at 11:16am

With a PC, the refresh rate is never exactly matched up to the framerate of the file, whether that is 23.976, 24.000 or something else. This means you have to choose between:

1. Drop or repeat frames to keep audio in sync, which causes the video to stutter every so often.
2. Don't allow the video to drop or repeat frames (smooth video) but let the audio drift out of sync.
3. Use ReClock or VideoClock to resample the audio to keep perfect sync along with smooth video playback.
4. Use madVR's Smooth Motion so that audio does not need resampled, but video frames are blended to maintain audio sync/video smoothness.

Both options 3 and 4 will give you smooth video playback and perfect audio sync.

I can't hear a difference when ReClock or VideoClock are working on the audio to keep it in sync, but I do see a difference when Smooth Motion is working.
ReClock and VideoClock also have the benefit of being able to play back 25p PAL content at the original 24p speed, so I prefer to use them.


All bitstreaming means, is that the audio is decoded from TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM inside your amplifier. For ReClock/VideoClock to work, you just need to do that decoding inside the PC instead. (using LAV Audio) Audio quality is the same.