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madVR v0.86.0 released - with Smooth Motion - Page 3

post #61 of 94
2/26/13 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

With a PC, the refresh rate is never exactly matched up to the framerate of the file, whether that is 23.976, 24.000 or something else. This means you have to choose between:
  1. Drop or repeat frames to keep audio in sync, which causes the video to stutter every so often.
  2. Don't allow the video to drop or repeat frames (smooth video) but let the audio drift out of sync.
  3. Use ReClock or VideoClock to resample the audio to keep perfect sync along with smooth video playback.
  4. Use madVR's Smooth Motion so that audio does not need resampled, but video frames are blended to maintain audio sync/video smoothness.

Both options 3 and 4 will give you smooth video playback and perfect audio sync.

I can't hear a difference when ReClock or VideoClock are working on the audio to keep it in sync, but I do see a difference when Smooth Motion is working.
ReClock and VideoClock also have the benefit of being able to play back 25p PAL content at the original 24p speed, so I prefer to use them.


All bitstreaming means, is that the audio is decoded from TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM inside your amplifier. For ReClock/VideoClock to work, you just need to do that decoding inside the PC instead. (using LAV Audio) Audio quality is the same.

Well the motion was not as smooth for me using SMFRC but maybe the GT 430 isn't up to the task?

I don't mind dropping a frame to keep the audio in sync. I don't notice (sense) the audio not in sync or the video dropping a frame so it isn't an issue. If I heard or saw this issue I'd be more proactive about fixing it for sure. Statistics in madVR usually show one dropped frame on order of an hour or so.

I think that the DAC in my AVR is better than that in my PC so I prefer to let the audio device do the decoding or does this not matter as the DAC takes the audio when it is in it's LPCM form and converts it to digital at this point?
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post #62 of 94
2/26/13 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Statistics in madVR usually show one dropped frame on order of an hour or so.
The only statistics I trust in madVR are the actual dropped/repeat frame count. The estimation will often suggest that there will not be any dropped frames, but actual playback does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I think that the DAC in my AVR is better than that in my PC so I prefer to let the audio device do the decoding or does this not matter as the DAC takes the audio when it is in it's LPCM form and converts it to digital at this point?
Decoding TrueHD/DTS-HD to LPCM is still done entirely in the digital domain, there's no digital to analogue conversion.
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post #63 of 94
2/26/13 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

The only statistics I trust in madVR are the actual dropped/repeat frame count. The estimation will often suggest that there will not be any dropped frames, but actual playback does.
Decoding TrueHD/DTS-HD to LPCM is still done entirely in the digital domain, there's no digital to analogue conversion.

The dropped frame count is usually about 20 to 30 by the end of the movie. I do not see these, typically. Most seem to occur right when the playback starts.

So LAV does as good a job in decoding audio as my Denon does? The thing is that using ReClock will add an additional thing that I need to tinker with and I'm pretty happy with the playback as it is.
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post #64 of 94
2/26/13 at 2:45pm
If you actually don't see dropped frames by your eyes, why care? smile.gif Stick to your custom 23Hz refresh rate and HD audio bitstreaming. You don't need madVR's SMFRC @60Hz refresh rate nor ReClock @23Hz refresh rate.
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post #65 of 94
2/26/13 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you actually don't see dropped frames by your eyes, why care? smile.gif Stick to your custom 23Hz refresh rate and HD audio bitstreaming. You don't need madVR's SMFRC @60Hz refresh rate nor ReClock @23Hz refresh rate.

I'm going to leave SMFRC set to "only when needed". I do have some 29fps interlaced and even some 25fps content I'd like to test out with it but haven't had the time. It seems it should turn on for at least the 25fps content.
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post #66 of 94
2/27/13 at 1:12pm
So, I got this installed last night...but I really didn't see any changes. I'm definitely sure its me:) So, is there somewhere I should go to turn up the intensity?
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post #67 of 94
2/27/13 at 1:58pm
If you right click a playing movie and go to filters and click on MadVR and then edit there are a number of smooth video settings you can experiment with.
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post #68 of 94
2/27/13 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post

If you right click a playing movie and go to filters and click on MadVR and then edit there are a number of smooth video settings you can experiment with.
Thanks PMD....I will check this out tonight. It was kinda late when I got everything setup...didn't get to tinker much.
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post #69 of 94
2/27/13 at 2:11pm
I set mine to only when needed because in the always on mode it actually made things less smooth. I still need to test some 25fps or 29fps interlaced content.
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post #70 of 94
2/27/13 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I set mine to only when needed because in the always on mode it actually made things less smooth. I still need to test some 25fps or 29fps interlaced content.
Thanks Sammy....I will give that a try also!
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post #71 of 94
2/27/13 at 4:21pm
So...when I right click and go to filters, I do not see madvr as an option. I'm guessing something is wrong. However I do see madvr under Playback Output.
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post #72 of 94
2/27/13 at 5:08pm
You need to register madVR by running the installation executable and not moving the files. Then you need to tell MPC-HC that you want to use madVR as your video renderer in the MPC-HC settings. After that madVR will show up under "Filters" in the MPC-HC screen.
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post #73 of 94
2/27/13 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I'm going to leave SMFRC set to "only when needed". I do have some 29fps interlaced and even some 25fps content I'd like to test out with it but haven't had the time. It seems it should turn on for at least the 25fps content.

29/30fps interlaced content = 59/60fps progressive content
25fps interlaced content = 50fps progressive content

from the viewpoint of madVR SMFRC. If the refresh rate is 59/60Hz, then SMFRC will be OFF for 29/30fps interlaced content, otherwise ON. If the refresh rate is 50Hz, then SMFRC will be OFF for 25fps interlaced content, otherwise ON. A summary:



- SMFRC should be OFF if refresh rate is an integer multiple of final framerate
- SMFRC should be ON otherwise.

Currently madVR can't distinguish telecined contents from interlaced contents and treats them as interlaced, hence SMFRC may not work correctly for telecined contents (shaded area indicates "wrong" SMFRC on/off).
Edited by renethx - 2/28/13 at 6:45am
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post #74 of 94
2/27/13 at 11:22pm
@renethx, you're right, when talking about DXVA deinterlacing. DVXA simply doesn't tell me whether the content is film or video. As a result madVR has no other choice than to deinterlace to 50/60fps in that case. Consequently the SMFRC switcher treats interlaced material as video if you use DXVA deinterlacing. However, if you force madVR into film mode, everything should work as expected for telecined content.
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post #75 of 94
2/28/13 at 6:18am
How do you force madVR into film mode?
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post #76 of 94
2/28/13 at 7:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post

How do you force madVR into film mode?

In madVR settings - Processing\deinterlacing\disable automatic source type detection
Edited by steelman1991 - 2/28/13 at 7:24am
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post #77 of 94
3/10/13 at 6:24am
I ran a 25fps interlaced mkv that I have last night. Previously it stuttered as it tried to match 25fps to 60fps of my TV. Now? Smooth as silk!!

Nice job madshi!
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post #78 of 94
3/19/13 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I'm going to leave SMFRC set to "only when needed". I do have some 29fps interlaced and even some 25fps content I'd like to test out with it but haven't had the time. It seems it should turn on for at least the 25fps content.

29/30fps interlaced content = 59/60fps progressive content
25fps interlaced content = 50fps progressive content

from the viewpoint of madVR SMFRC. If the refresh rate is 59/60Hz, then SMFRC will be OFF for 29/30fps interlaced content, otherwise ON. If the refresh rate is 50Hz, then SMFRC will be OFF for 25fps interlaced content, otherwise ON. A summary:



- SMFRC should be OFF if refresh rate is an integer multiple of final framerate
- SMFRC should be ON otherwise.

Currently madVR can't distinguish telecined contents from interlaced contents and treats them as interlaced, hence SMFRC may not work correctly for telecined contents (shaded area indicates "wrong" SMFRC on/off).

I have some content that is 23.976fps that is not being switched to 23fps through my GT-430 for display on my TV. The TV shows 60Hz and the statistics screen shows that SMFRC is "ON".

Why is this happening to some content but not all content?

Although this is a question and I am wondering why this is occurring, the picture is still smooth as silk. I am wondering what the algorithm is for this if it is not a 3:2 pull down scheme. Thanks.
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post #79 of 94
3/19/13 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have some content that is 23.976fps that is not being switched to 23fps through my GT-430 for display on my TV. The TV shows 60Hz and the statistics screen shows that SMFRC is "ON".

Why is this happening to some content but not all content?

How do you switch refresh rate? MadVR's "display mode" or something else? Maybe the content is telecined? MadVR can't distinguish between telecined 29.97fps contents and interlaced 29.97fps contents.
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post #80 of 94
3/20/13 at 5:23am
I am using madVR's "Display Mode". The file is as follows:
Code:
Video 
ID : 1 
Format : AVC 
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec 
Format profile : High@L4.1 
Format settings, CABAC : Yes 
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames 
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC 
Duration : 1h 2mn 
Bit rate : 4 595 Kbps 
Width : 1 280 pixels 
Height : 720 pixels 
Display aspect ratio : 16:9 
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV 
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 
Bit depth : 8 bits 
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.208 
Stream size : 1.94 GiB (73%) 
Writing library : x264 core 130 r2273 b3065e6 
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=4595 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00 
Language : English 
Default : Yes 
Forced : No 

Audio 
ID : 2 
Format : DTS 
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems 
Codec ID : A_DTS 
Duration : 1h 2mn 
Bit rate mode : Constant 
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps 
Channel(s) : 2 channels 
Channel positions : Front: L R 
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 
Bit depth : 24 bits 
Compression mode : Lossy 
Stream size : 670 MiB (25%) 
Language : English 
Default : Yes 
Forced : No

I believe that it is because it is 720p23.976 which I do not have as a custom resolution in my nVidia settings. Is it possible to have two custom resolutions? (Not that it matters much because smooth video looks fantastic!)
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post #81 of 94
3/20/13 at 7:18am
I don't see anything wrong in your video file. If you add "1080p23" in "display mode", the refresh rate should be changed to "23Hz".
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post #82 of 94
3/20/13 at 7:34am
I have 1080p23 in Display Modes and a custom 1080p23 resolution in my nVidia control panel but this file is 720p23.976. It is playing at 59.99Hz and is smooth as silk because SMFRC is on when it plays to prevent judder.
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post #83 of 94
3/20/13 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Isn't this how madVR SMFRC is supposed to work - ie without dynamic refresh rate changing and playing everything at a fixed rate, why not switch it off and play everything at 59.94 - would also do away with the need for a custom resolution in your GPU. Maybe I'm over simplyfying things and renethx will set me straight.
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post #84 of 94
3/20/13 at 8:02am
I have it set to be on only if there would be judder. In this case it comes on and it is smooth as silk. For film content at 23.976fps I prefer it off as it looks more "film-like" at that frame rate than at 60Hz. That said, I'm not going to worry about it much. I have very little 720p23.976 content and with SMFRC it looks fantastic playing at 59.99Hz.
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post #85 of 94
3/20/13 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Forgot you could set it for dynamic switching - I personally leave it on all the time and just run everything at 60hz - playing at 60hz solves all sorts of audio sync issues I was having with 24hz playback. Can't say I see any change to the 'film-like appearance at 60hz with SMRFC on, but each to their own (now SVP that's a whole different ball-game).
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post #86 of 94
3/22/13 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have some content that is 23.976fps that is not being switched to 23fps through my GT-430 for display on my TV. The TV shows 60Hz and the statistics screen shows that SMFRC is "ON".

Why is this happening to some content but not all content?

Although this is a question and I am wondering why this is occurring, the picture is still smooth as silk. I am wondering what the algorithm is for this if it is not a 3:2 pull down scheme. Thanks.

What resolution does TV show? Maybe you have 720p60 in madvr display modes and it choose that instead 1080p23 because the film is 1280x720.
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post #87 of 94
3/22/13 at 5:52am
I do have 720p60 in madVR. I don't have a custom resolution for 720p23.976 in my nVidia Control Panel, only 1080p23.976 (23.9758, actually). I'm pretty sure that is why this plays with SMFRC on at 60Hz.
Edited by Sammy2 - 3/22/13 at 1:17pm
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post #88 of 94
3/22/13 at 6:10am
Try to delete 720p60 in madvr display modes. Then madvr will choose 1080p23 and will do upscale. If madvr choose 720p resolution then TV will do upscale (i don´t write 720p resolutions in madvr display modes because i preffer that madvr do upscale).
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post #89 of 94
3/22/13 at 1:17pm
I'm going to remove all the 720p modes and have madVR upscale this as suggested. Thanks!
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post #90 of 94
3/22/13 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No, not at all. It eliminates 3:2 pulldown judder perfectly when playing back a 24fps content with a 60Hz display. If your display supports 24Hz input properly, you don't need it. Some display supports 24Hz, but internally converts to 60Hz by mere 3:2 pulldown; madVR's smooth motion is mainly aimed at such a display.

if i set my ST30 plasma for 24 HZ and set my Nvidia Set up for 24HZ the movies look just awful. However if I set it to 60HZ and the Nvidia settings to 60 HZ it looks a lot better.

madVR makes a great difference in the smoothness now.
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