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Cambridge Audio's Azur 752BD - Page 2

post #31 of 141
3/13/13 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The Oppo is a 32-bit DAC with significantly more dynamic range, the Wolfson is a 24-bit DAC.

The Wolfson WM8740 has SNR max. 120dB, the Sabre is claimed to have SNR of 135dB, which is still less than 24-bit (144dB) . The difference is unlikely to be significant.

RE: Sabre DAC not 32-bit?
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/15/153466.html
Edited by Kilian.ca - 3/13/13 at 7:25pm
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post #32 of 141
3/14/13 at 3:31am
What Hi Fi just release review for 752, they noted some details about the sound. Here is the link:
http://www.whathifi.com/review/azur-752bd

Any idea if any sound difference between 752 and 751?
Edited by Knight7m - 3/15/13 at 1:33am
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post #33 of 141
3/14/13 at 6:20am
I would take what hifi with a serious grain of salt, not a too detailed review and also find them quite biased... I have stopped subscribing them ages ago, just my 2 cents...
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post #34 of 141
3/14/13 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The Wolfson WM8740 has SNR max. 120dB, the Sabre is claimed to have SNR of 135dB, which is still less than 24-bit (144dB) . The difference is unlikely to be significant.

RE: Sabre DAC not 32-bit?
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/15/153466.html

Interesting article. I definitely agree with the last statement about listening and letting your ears decide. I find the difference between most high end well manufacturered players is subtle at best.
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post #35 of 141
3/14/13 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
I'm a very happy owner of the 752bd. Received it just yesterday and played with it all night. I upgraded from Panasonic BDT-DMP500. Picture and sound quality is what I expected at it's price point. Solidly built. 3D is much better than the Panasonic, virtually zero crosstalk or ghosting. I'm pleasantly surprised! biggrin.gif Blu-ray discs loaded quick too! Very responsive! You can make adjustments on the Setup Menu "while the disc is playing". Can play 24hz on regular DVD. I love the display/status info - bar, total time, remaining, audio format, resolution/refresh rate... I think I'll be keeping this player for a long while.....
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post #36 of 141
3/20/13 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

My review of the 752B is getting turned in this week. Look for it soon. Direct comparisons to the BDP-105 with both players broken in.

Can't wait to hear about "source direct" mode smile.gif
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post #37 of 141
3/20/13 at 10:45am
Can't wait to see the comparison to the Oppo. Still not up on Home Theater.
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post #38 of 141
3/20/13 at 11:04am
The review has been turned in. Now it goes through editing and fact check. Probably a week or more before you'll see it on the website.
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post #39 of 141
3/25/13 at 5:24pm
Hello,

Just my two cents. cool.gif

I shop at a very respected home theater store in Manhasset NY and they said they did an A - B comparison between the 105 and 752 for a customer. After 10 minutes the customer said the 752 sounded much better. I don't have any details on how the comparison was done or if the units were broken in. My only thought is I believe the 752 have 5 DACS while the 105 only has 2. Of course, one must use the 7.1 output to hear the difference but my limited knowledge would say the 5 Wolfson DACS would add better sound quality then 2 SABRE DACS. Does anyone have more detailed knowledge about this difference?
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post #40 of 141
3/25/13 at 6:22pm
The Wolfson is 2CH each, the Sabre 8CH each, so it's 10 vs. 16 in reality.

Then you have to consider how many channels of DAC per output.

CA: 10CH for 7.1 and stereo, one per channel.
Oppo 105: 1 Sabre 8CH for 7.1: one per channel, another Sabre 8CH for dedicated stereo and headphone (I forget how they are allocated, the details are all in the Oppo thread).

Some CD players have more than one DAC channel per output: my Arcam CD player has 4 Wolfson DACs total, 4 mono channels per output.
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post #41 of 141
3/25/13 at 6:45pm
I'd wait for Kris' comparison rather than relying on some unknown customer with non-broken in electronics. I'm sure both are excellent, and it's probably more a matter of personal taste than one being "much better" than the other.
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post #42 of 141
3/29/13 at 11:57am
Allow me to quote another excerpt from reviewer Richard Stevenson in UK's Hi-Fi News April edition...
Quote:
Unsurprisingly the 752BD has a very similar sonic balance to the 751BD: rich, expressive and detailed, yet airing on the side of caution where getting down and dirty is concerned. It is a very balanced and even-handed sound and, with CD playback in particular, perhaps a little more taut and focused than its predecessor. The top end is a particular strength, the player easily eking out the texture of the brush-struck cymbals throughout Beverly Craven's eponymous first album, for example. The HF soundscape does not have the air and space of the Oppo BDP-105EU with its Sabre-DAC based sound, yet the Cambridge is far more forgiving of splashy recordings. While the Oppo sounds sharper and more clinical, the 752BD is far safer option that won't let bright recordings set your teeth on edge. This is particularly true with SACD playback. The 752BD handles the format's resolution and the wanton HF of some SACDs with a balanced musicality throughout. This is a foot-tapping player, one that 'disappears into the music' rather than sitting on your rack trying to preen itself with its own hi-fi-ness. It is a player in control and, while that does make for a very easy listen, I couldn't help wanting a little more chutzpah at the bottom end. Its LF output is a little on the dry and tight side for my more up-tempo musical tastes - although you can't fault its resolution of notes throughout the range. The fabulous bass line on Jethro Tull's take on Bach's Bouree [Stand Up] is a pleasure to behold on the Cambridge. [unquote]
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post #43 of 141
3/31/13 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I'd wait for Kris' comparison rather than relying on some unknown customer with non-broken in electronics. I'm sure both are excellent, and it's probably more a matter of personal taste than one being "much better" than the other.

+1. This is what it ALWAYS comes down to regardless of who is making the statement.smile.gif
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post #44 of 141
3/31/13 at 3:43pm
Just received and hooked up mine, all analog: RCAs for two-channel, (obviously) and RCAs for discrete 5.1. Thus, the player is doing all the processing. Whole system is new and needs breaking in/optimizing, so these are just initial impressions. That said, the review quoted above seems spot on: I am appreciating the detailed yet forgiving high-frequency energy. The player does seem to recede into the music. Beautiful pace and layering. I would agree that the low-end isn't thunderous, but it's quite articulate. I have zero initial complaints or concerns. This is simply a beautiful sounding player, with the slightest hint of warmth, irrespective of musical genre, via either Redbook or DVD-A. I don't use/own SACDs, and I've yet to fire it up on the visual side (HDMI straight out of the player into the TV, so the AVR isn't tasked with video scaling). Fit and finish is fabulous. More to come.


Rest of setup, incidentally: Marantz SR7005 AVR.
Wharfedale Evo2-30s front L/R and Evo2-8s for rear.
Center is a Wharfedale Opus2 AVS.
Sub: Phase Technology WL-12.
BPT Clean Power Center plus Cullen Perfect Plugs for power.
Speaker cable is Wireworld and Piega.
Other cabling is custom Cullen Cable: power cords, RCAs, sub, digital coax (I run digi coax out of HD cable box into AVR, so HDMI is responsible for HD picture only).
Edited by finguerres - 3/31/13 at 3:54pm
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post #45 of 141
4/1/13 at 1:38pm
Thanks for the quick review. I've been out the 752 because my local home theater store said they did an a/b comparison to the oppo 105 and they thought the 752 sounded much better. I currently have the oppo 83SE so I am looking to upgrade. I am more interested in how the 752 sounds for movies (I have the Marantz SE SACD player). I also had the Marantz SR7005 and recently upgraded to their seperates. I'll run the 752 through the 7.1 analogs so how much better do movies sound? Also, what were you using prior to the 752?
Thank you.
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post #46 of 141
4/2/13 at 3:05pm
The Widescreen review is now posted on Cambridge Audio's website. Here is the link...

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/media/widescreen-review-752bd-march-13-1364310319.pdf

Nick
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post #47 of 141
4/2/13 at 6:39pm
I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on the 752 and using purely the multichannel setup to my Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro so I can take advantage of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio without replacing my older Rotel. The issue I have is the 752 has 7.1 discrete channels and the Rotel only has 6.1; LF, RF, Center, LS, RS, sub and only 1 back center. Which of the back surrounds left or right on the 752 do I use for the 1 back center on the Rotel?
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post #48 of 141
4/3/13 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrighton View Post

The Widescreen review is now posted on Cambridge Audio's website. Here is the link...

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/media/widescreen-review-752bd-march-13-1364310319.pdf

Nick

Thank you for posting this Nick!
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post #49 of 141
4/4/13 at 4:55am
Quoting from the Widescreen Review: "The 752BD has the best analog sound quality I've heard from a Blu-ray Disc player so far… there, I said it. The high-end Blu-ray Disc player getting the most attention these days is OPPO's recently intro-duced BDP-105. But the 752BD sounds better."

This is exactly what I said several weeks earlier on this forum. I think the difference is due to up sampling. Amazes me that Oppo does not include this decades old feature, and sounds the worse for it.
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post #50 of 141
4/4/13 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The Wolfson WM8740 has SNR max. 120dB, the Sabre is claimed to have SNR of 135dB, which is still less than 24-bit (144dB) . The difference is unlikely to be significant.

RE: Sabre DAC not 32-bit?
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/15/153466.html

Never ceases to amaze me that audiophiles care about specs like these, and not whether given the appalling distortion levels of any loudspeaker, particularly of the home theater kind, they are likely to hear any difference lower than oh -70 dB or so. The best moving coil speakers have distortion levels around - 60dB. Are you likely to hear anything -60dB below the distortion level of your loudspeaker?

Of course, I blame the rags for doing these meaningless measurements of CD players and Blu Ray players. Notice they never do distortion measurements of loudspeakers. Why? Because the results are so appallingly bad ( except for some electrostatics, like the Quads, which have reasonably low distortion levels).
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post #51 of 141
4/4/13 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney1 View Post

I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on the 752 and using purely the multichannel setup to my Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro so I can take advantage of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio without replacing my older Rotel. The issue I have is the 752 has 7.1 discrete channels and the Rotel only has 6.1; LF, RF, Center, LS, RS, sub and only 1 back center. Which of the back surrounds left or right on the 752 do I use for the 1 back center on the Rotel?

bump...
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post #52 of 141
4/5/13 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalidvd View Post

Quoting from the Widescreen Review: "The 752BD has the best analog sound quality I've heard from a Blu-ray Disc player so far… there, I said it. The high-end Blu-ray Disc player getting the most attention these days is OPPO's recently intro-duced BDP-105. But the 752BD sounds better."

This is exactly what I said several weeks earlier on this forum. I think the difference is due to up sampling. Amazes me that Oppo does not include this decades old feature, and sounds the worse for it.

There is no difference just preference.smile.gif There are probably a multitude of highly regarded players (CD, SACD and Universal) that don't employ upsampling nor do I see it mentioned in any reviews of the 752BD or the previous 751BD. A Cambridge rep put it succinctly. Do you prefer Wolfson or Sabre DACs. The 752BD only has this feature because of its lineage. The previous Cambridge 840C has this feature if I am not mistaken; yet some owners preferred the Oppo. Maybe it's the lack of this feature in the Oppo as to why the owner preferred it over the Cambridge 840C.biggrin.gif

Audio is so subjective and some look for reasons why they may prefer one player over the other. Audio is not that complexed; either you prefer player A or B and you reasons are your own.

I own a Camridge Azur 640v2 (same Wolfson DACs implemented in the 752BD) and it was my preferred player for CD playback and a Denon DVD-5910CI for SACD and DVD-A playback, but that has changed over the years because my preference has changed.smile.gif

Without auditioning the 752BD I know that it is a fine player, because Cambridge does a fine job of implementing analog audio, but for me outside of the analog audio its feature set falls short for my needs.smile.gif
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post #53 of 141
4/5/13 at 7:00am
The player is certainly interesting - especially at almost half the price of the Oppo 105. The big question to me - can it be made region free for both DVD and BD?
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post #54 of 141
4/5/13 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

The player is certainly interesting - especially at almost half the price of the Oppo 105. The big question to me - can it be made region free for both DVD and BD?

Actually it is approximately the same price of the BDP-105. However, if you find it for half the price please post immediately.biggrin.gif
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post #55 of 141
4/5/13 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

I wonder if the What HiFi review will get into these kind of details. Seems everything is not rosy with the QDEO output on HDMI1 or the Mediatek output on HDMI2. This from the Oppo 103 thread (I hope CA's implementation is somehow better):

No mention of these issues in the review. Both CA and the reviewers are still silent on the topic, what a missed Oppo-rtunity.
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post #56 of 141
4/5/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Actually it is approximately the same price of the BDP-105. However, if you find it for half the price please post immediately.biggrin.gif

the 752 cost 1214$ here, while the 105 goes for 1995$ here....
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post #57 of 141
4/5/13 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

the 752 cost 1214$ here, while the 105 goes for 1995$ here....

In the US, they are exactly the same price ($1199 for each).
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post #58 of 141
4/5/13 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney1 View Post

bump...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney1 View Post

I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on the 752 and using purely the multichannel setup to my Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro so I can take advantage of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio without replacing my older Rotel. The issue I have is the 752 has 7.1 discrete channels and the Rotel only has 6.1; LF, RF, Center, LS, RS, sub and only 1 back center. Which of the back surrounds left or right on the 752 do I use for the 1 back center on the Rotel?

I know this question has nothing to do about the Opp vs Cam, but any input would be appreciated. I guess I can just try each one L/R and see what sounds better. Just wondering if anybody is in the same boat as I.
Thanks
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post #59 of 141
4/6/13 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

There is no difference just preference.smile.gif

^^ As I said before upsampling is rather like oversampling in modern DACs, for the benefit of higher sample rate going through the filters. The short video on the CA website explaining the upsampling is a bit misleading, as the bloke talks about more information of the upsampled audio when in truth you can't add real information to the source, just as in upconverted video.

The difference between CA and Oppo in design is more than just the oversampling. Without the option to turn it off you just don't know how much it contributes to the SQ difference. According to Nyquist there should be no difference.wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney1 View Post


I guess I can just try each one L/R and see what sounds better.

That's a meaningless or pointless comparison because the rear surrounds are derived mostly from the side surrounds in the original 5.1 theatre mix. Every mix is different and depending on the contents there may be a lot or little difference between the two. You wouldn't normally compare the front R and L and see which sounds better.

If you just connect either one you only get half the info. There is a proper way to MIX the two together (not with a Y-cable) to form one channel. Or else just forget about the extra channel, set the player for 5.1, at least all the info is preserved. When sent digitally of course all 7.1 can be sent intact.
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post #60 of 141
4/6/13 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney1 View Post


I know this question has nothing to do about the Opp vs Cam, but any input would be appreciated. I guess I can just try each one L/R and see what sounds better. Just wondering if anybody is in the same boat as I.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post


If you just connect either one you only get half the info. There is a proper way to MIX the two together (not with a Y-cable) to form one channel. Or else just forget about the extra channel, set the player for 5.1, at least all the info is preserved. When sent digitally of course all 7.1 can be sent intact.

As Kilian.ca stated you have to mix the surround back channels. You connect only the 5.1 (6 rca cables) and set the speaker configuration in the "Audio Processing" menu to down mix to 5.1Ch.
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