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Argo: iTunes vs. Vudu vs. Blu-ray - Page 2

post #31 of 106
2/23/13 at 10:30pm
I've got a question:

is there any advantage (audio/video) in playing movies from itunes on an Apple TV vs. my macbook via HDMI.
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post #32 of 106
2/23/13 at 11:20pm
Quote:
based on a true story that takes place during the Iranian revolution in 1979
The only way this can be a true story is if it takes place in an alternate universe.
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post #33 of 106
2/24/13 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post


More weakness than strengths. I continually see posterization and colour banding in every scene of any movie that shows an area with gradations such as skies, shadows (such in all sci-fi and horror movies), and clothing.

David, I watched Argo last night on 120" screen and I looked for the posterization and color banding in these scenes and did not see any...at least in this particular film. However there was a noticeable amount of grain which I assume was done on purpose. VUDU HDX (DD+) on WDTV Live streamer (Darbee). Great movie BTW although I suspect there was time compression and embellishment in the script to ramp up the story.
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post #34 of 106
2/24/13 at 6:06am
Thread Starter 
There was significant embellishment of the story, in reality they made it through the airport and out of Iran without incident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

David, I watched Argo last night on 120" screen and I looked for the posterization and color banding in these scenes and did not see any...at least in this particular film. However there was a noticeable amount of grain which I assume was done on purpose. VUDU HDX (DD+) on WDTV Live streamer (Darbee). Great movie BTW although I suspect there was time compression and embellishment in the script to ramp up the story.
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post #35 of 106
2/24/13 at 12:54pm
Better picture and lossless audio... I wonder which medium I'd pick... hmmm...

Don't get suckered by the illusion of convenience, so you end up saying "hey, it's good enough." Hollywood suits win that way.

I can rent a Blu-ray title a lot more cheaply at a local video store than an inferior "HD" stream on Vudu or Amazon.
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post #36 of 106
2/24/13 at 1:07pm
To me Blu Ray is the way to go. I saw Argo last night via amazon from my Sony blu ray player and I can tell you the picture quality was poor. It was DVD like. Blu ray rules in all phases, it bests out vs. every other medium. Skyfall on blu ray is exceptional, the other formats can't even hold a stick vs. blu ray and ditto on Game of Thrones.
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post #37 of 106
2/24/13 at 4:13pm

I don't understand why people preach Blu-ray (or some other format) when one can easily see what if any differences there are in the posted images. Is someone really going to be influenced (other than the poster themselves) by cheerleading when the facts actually exist... I know it does no harm but I think it's rather silly... don't go by the evidence of which I won't even address just listen to this... 

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post #38 of 106
2/26/13 at 9:36pm
Blu-ray wins again. Surpsise, surprise. Better picture and lossless audio. Why bother looking elsewhere? I wouldn't.
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post #39 of 106
2/27/13 at 5:30am
Thread Starter 
There are plenty of reasons someone would choose a format that is more convenient than Blu-ray. For example, someone who wants to watch Life of Pi or Wreck it Ralph but does not want to wait until March 5. Perhaps the viewer literally does not have a Blu-ray drive, because they own nothing but all-new Apple gear, or Android and a Roku. BD players are not exactly selling like hotcakes these days. It wont be long before Blu-ray picture quality is matched, then beaten by a download. As for audio, Dolby Digital Plus has the bandwidth needed, as the PQ bitrates go up, so should the SQ bitrates. Because of the quality I am seeing and hearing, I ask the opposite question: Why is it worth even bothering with the Blu-ray when the quality of the download/streaming files is so excellent at this point. Why deal with the hassle and the wait involved with getting a copy on Blu-ray.

Finally, Argo was a bit of a surprise. Apparently grainy film really does pose a challenge to the compression algorithms. Moving on to Life of Pi, I don't expect the Blu-ray version to be very different from the download/straming versions at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGigaShadow View Post

Blu-ray wins again. Surpsise, surprise. Better picture and lossless audio. Why bother looking elsewhere? I wouldn't.

Edited by imagic - 2/27/13 at 5:38am
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post #40 of 106
2/27/13 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

There are plenty of reasons someone would choose a format that is more convenient than Blu-ray. For example, someone who wants to watch Life of Pi or Wreck it Ralph but does not want to wait until March 5. Perhaps the viewer literally does not have a Blu-ray drive, because they own nothing but all-new Apple gear, or Android and a Roku. BD players are not exactly selling like hotcakes these days. It wont be long before Blu-ray picture quality is matched, then beaten by a download. As for audio, Dolby Digital Plus has the bandwidth needed, as the PQ bitrates go up, so should the SQ bitrates. Because of the quality I am seeing and hearing, I ask the opposite question: Why is it worth even bothering with the Blu-ray when the quality of the download/streaming files is so excellent at this point. Why deal with the hassle and the wait involved with getting a copy on Blu-ray.

Finally, Argo was a bit of a surprise. Apparently grainy film really does pose a challenge to the compression algorithms. Moving on to Life of Pi, I don't expect the Blu-ray version to be very different from the download/streaming versions at all.

I have to ask this: do you happen to work for Netflix, Vudu, or Apple? biggrin.gif
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post #41 of 106
2/28/13 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGigaShadow View Post

Blu-ray wins again. Surpsise, surprise. Better picture and lossless audio. Why bother looking elsewhere? I wouldn't.

The problem is, it is so difficult to rent discs anymore (thanks to the studios pressuring the rent by mail companies). I used to get new released blu-rays from netflix and then later from blockbuster within a day or two of when the disc hit the stores. Now its about 8 weeks later, if that.

So if the film is an action film or otherwise has good sound, I'lll wait for the blu-ray. Otherwise, a more dialogue driven movie I will stream via VuDu. I'm more willing to compromise a little on the picture quality than the sound quality. (In other words, if I can have lossless audio and its a film that makes it worthwhile, I won't give that up).

If vudu streamed Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS Master HD (including 7.1 of those when available), I would do VuDu all the time.
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post #42 of 106
2/28/13 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

The problem is, it is so difficult to rent discs anymore (thanks to the studios pressuring the rent by mail companies). I used to get new released blu-rays from netflix and then later from blockbuster within a day or two of when the disc hit the stores. Now its about 8 weeks later, if that.

So if the film is an action film or otherwise has good sound, I'lll wait for the blu-ray. Otherwise, a more dialogue driven movie I will stream via VuDu. I'm more willing to compromise a little on the picture quality than the sound quality. (In other words, if I can have lossless audio and its a film that makes it worthwhile, I won't give that up).

If vudu streamed Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS Master HD (including 7.1 of those when available), I would do VuDu all the time.

I'm not sure very many people would be able to pass an A/B double blind test between a Vudu 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus and a DTS HD Master 7.1 soundtrack. So far I have not been disappointed, so long as you level match Vudu to Blu-ray they can sound remarkably similar. As long as Vudu does not throttle the DD+ bitrate, the headroom is there to preserve the integrity of the original sound. The key is to make sure the device you view Vudu on actually supports the 7.1 audio stream. That means you cannot use a HTPC as the source. With iTunes there is more of an issue with the sound, Dolby Digital has a rather limited bitrate and is limited to 5.1 channels.
Edited by imagic - 2/28/13 at 12:09pm
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post #43 of 106
2/28/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

There was significant embellishment of the story, in reality they made it through the airport and out of Iran without incident.

There have been lots of changes made to the movie version (Affleck has acknowledged this in a UK press interview "I struggled with this long and hard, because it casts Britain and New Zealand in a way that is not totally fair. But I was setting up a situation where you needed to get a sense that these six people had nowhere else to go. It does not mean to diminish anyone." Whilst in the movie version the Brits don't help - in reality they hosted the US Embassy staff initially and assisted after it was decided the Canadian Ambassador's residence was safer...)

Personally I really enjoyed the film. I didn't treat it as a history lesson, more a film inspired by a true story, rather than telling one.

I felt they did a great job of shooting a film that felt of its time. It felt like a film made in the 70s as well as set in the 70s. Very reminiscent of Three Days of the Condor for some reason.

Have pre-ordered the UK Blu-ray release. Interesting to see the iTunes comparisons - I've never bought online movies before - and until we get lossless audio and improved picture quality I doubt I'll start.
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post #44 of 106
3/7/13 at 1:27pm
I would really appreciate it if XBOX Video / Zune was compared along with the other services since many Windows 8 users use the service. Thanks.
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post #45 of 106
3/25/13 at 4:33pm
I seriously miss these types of treads so much.
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post #46 of 106
3/26/13 at 5:49am
This post is not meant to be a mine is bigger than yours boast but isn't the comparison only applicable to a 55" screen and below? At that screen size and given that the screen is 16:9 you are effectively watching a 52" 2.35 image if you account for black bars. I have little doubt that all sources look pretty decent at that size.

My set up is 130" at 2:35:1, 6 times larger in viewing area than the test review. I can guarantee you that the difference between anything streamed and blu ray is massive at this picture size. The difference between a good and poor quality bluray transfer is also significant at this image size.

As previously posted blurays are also significantly cheaper than any streamed option which makes it an absolute no brainer for me.
Edited by seanoo - 3/26/13 at 6:33am
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post #47 of 106
3/26/13 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanoo View Post

This post is not meant to be a mine is bigger than yours boast but isn't the comparison only applicable to a 55" screen and below? At that screen size and given that the screen is 16:9 you are effectively watching a 52" 2.35 image if you account for black bars. I have little doubt that all sources look pretty decent at that size.

My set up is 130" at 2:35:1, 6 times larger in viewing area than the test review. I can guarantee you that the difference between anything streamed and blu ray is massive at this picture size. The difference between a good and poor quality bluray transfer is also significant at this image size.

As previously posted blurays are also significantly cheaper than any streamed option which makes it an absolute no brainer for me.

Size is totally irrelevant. It's the ratio of screen size vs. the distance of the viewer's eyeballs that matters. When I do my comparisons, I am about 60" from my screen, just under the THX recommended minimum/optimum distance. That's because I use my panel as a giant computer monitor. How close are you to your screen? Optimally, you'd be about 13-14 feet away. To replicate my viewing conditions, you'd need to be about 12 feet away.
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post #48 of 106
3/26/13 at 9:26pm
My eyes are not seeing what your eyes are ...

The picture where it shows the woman the close up of her face if I had a preference out of all four of them pictures I would say that VUDU HDX is the taker I see a much more smoother picture then what you describe weather noise or grain is removed or not the picture in my honest opinion looks worlds better so no matter what was removed or left or whatever the codec is not lossless and that is not its intent it is to compress and maintain a good quality picture and it does better then any of them in that picture ....

VUDU HDX in my opinon steals the show in a couple of cases I think others should share what they think as well...
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post #49 of 106
3/27/13 at 3:41am
I just watched this on blu-ray a couple of days ago, it was very good. I debated whether to buy it on blu-ray or Vudu. Your screenshots are great and show streaming movies are not far behind. I ended up with the blu-ray and a good deal from FYE.

Mark is that speedtest on your PC or apple device? And you find that it's accurate?
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post #50 of 106
3/27/13 at 1:22pm
I suppose you can tell by my signature how I feel about streaming movies for convenience over quality.
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post #51 of 106
3/28/13 at 9:18am
Does anyone know - who she is?
I haven’t seen the movie. I wiki’d Argo and could not ID her amongst the cast.
Thanks for the informative thread. Good read.
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post #52 of 106
3/28/13 at 11:50am
Quote:
I haven’t seen the movie. I wiki’d Argo and could not ID her amongst the cast.
Thanks for the informative thread. Good read.

If I remember correctly she is one of the maids at the Canadian embassy in the movie. According to IMDB her name is Sheila Vand.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2611074/
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post #53 of 106
3/30/13 at 4:04pm
Sorry if I missed it, but what codec does this BD use?

Seems a bit relevant.
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post #54 of 106
3/31/13 at 1:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnkit View Post

Sorry if I missed it, but what codec does this BD use?

Seems a bit relevant.

iTunes HD, Vudu HDX and Blu-ray all use AVCHD, aka H.264 - it's the bit rates that vary.
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post #55 of 106
3/31/13 at 3:19pm
I challenge that a format offering less MBps than others to be superior. I'm all for lossless compression, but beyond that, it would be pretty tough for blu-ray not to win.
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post #56 of 106
4/1/13 at 6:22am
imagic,

It wasn't clear based on your first post (unless I overlooked it), but for vudu, did you do an actual download of the HDX movie, or was it streaming HDX. From my understanding, streaming HDX is only 4.5mbps. Downloaded HDX is supposed to be higher (like 9 or 10 I believe, but I don't know for sure).
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post #57 of 106
4/1/13 at 6:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

imagic,

It wasn't clear based on your first post (unless I overlooked it), but for vudu, did you do an actual download of the HDX movie, or was it streaming HDX. From my understanding, streaming HDX is only 4.5mbps. Downloaded HDX is supposed to be higher (like 9 or 10 I believe, but I don't know for sure).

Actually, HDX streaming has three tiers, represented by bars, like a cell-phone signal. The minimum requirement for HDX is 4.5mbps, which translates to one bar. Three bar HDX streaming is full-speed, around 10Mbps. The downloadable version of HDX shows two bars in the Vudu player, which would imply it is not as good as the top tier streaming version.

In practice, there is no difference between three bar streaming and downloadable Vudu HDX. I compared screen caps and found them to be functionally identical.
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post #58 of 106
4/1/13 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Actually, HDX streaming has three tiers, represented by bars, like a cell-phone signal. The minimum requirement for HDX is 4.5mbps, which translates to one bar. Three bar HDX streaming is full-speed, around 10Mbps. The downloadable version of HDX shows two bars in the Vudu player, which would imply it is not as good as the top tier streaming version.

In practice, there is no difference between three bar streaming and downloadable Vudu HDX. I compared screen caps and found them to be functionally identical.

Ah cool - i didnt realize it was minimum of 4.5mbps... That's good to know!
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post #59 of 106
4/1/13 at 11:45am
Hi, I just stumbled across this discussion. Interesting thread. I tend to watch movies streamed from DirecTV (mostly for convenience sake) but have been toying with the idea of using other content providers. How does streaming from DirecTV (or Cox, or Comcast etc.) compare to iTunes, Vudu and/or Amazon video?
F.
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post #60 of 106
4/1/13 at 6:55pm
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I wonder if you are aware that these comparos -- which are fantastic by the way -- are serving as a great commercial for streaming? It's basically telling me, "Hey, don't worry about those iTunes 1080 streams, they are really, really quite good."

Often, we rent BluRay from Redbox, but honestly, that's mostly because it's so cheap and (for us) ridiculously convenient.
I am baffled how Redbox offers cheaper rentals than streaming options like iTunes. I think physical disc and risk of scratched disk would cost more than bandwidth. Obviously there is another piece of the pie driving up cost. My guess is the movie studios fear of streaming.
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