or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › AVS Roundup of the Best-Reviewed Flat Panel TVs of 2012
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AVS Roundup of the Best-Reviewed Flat Panel TVs of 2012 - Page 8

post #211 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Wish I was gutsy enough to try a plasma. But I just *know* I'll be the one to get the buzzing / burning one.
You make it sound like a minefield (which actually mirrors my experience when trying to get a Samsung LCD with a uniform backlight in 2007 tongue.gif). Granted I don't have much experience with plasma beyond Pioneer (and the continued race to the bottom since 2008), but having owned 3 of their panels (2 of which have since been sold off), neither issue was a concern.
post #212 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Wish I was gutsy enough to try a plasma. But I just *know* I'll be the one to get the buzzing / burning one.
You make it sound like a minefield (which actually mirrors my experience when trying to get a Samsung LCD with a uniform backlight in 2007 tongue.gif). Granted I don't have much experience with plasma beyond Pioneer (and the continued race to the bottom since 2008), but having owned 3 of their panels (2 of which have since been sold off), neither issue was a concern.

......and right now else-thread there's someone who has the wonderful new VT60 doing buzzing, humming (a different sound), and IR, and the thing is relatively new and he's been working with the break-in slides.
post #213 of 254
The way I watch TV burn in never happens. Does that make me retarded or brilliant?
post #214 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

......and right now else-thread there's someone who has the wonderful new VT60 doing buzzing, humming (a different sound), and IR, and the thing is relatively new and he's been working with the break-in slides.
Yes, I've seen those (and more). One owner is at a higher elevation. I wonder if shipping these cross-country puts them at considerable risk for developing defects (makes you want to invest in an extended warranty).eek.gif
post #215 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

^^^I sell tvs. I can't tell you how many times a customer's been really impressed with the picture quality and price equation on a particular set and been fully ready to pull the trigger until they notice it's a plasma. Then they run in fear because a neighbor's hairdresser's mechanic bought a cheapy Maxent or Haier 7 years ago and had a crappy experience with it. The fact that Panasonic plasmas consistently have the least problems of any flat panel according to Consumer Reports reliability surveys means nothing to them. Then there's the plain fact that the average buyer wants the brightest, thinnest set with the most whiz-bang smart features despite the fact that a $90 Roku box will outperform any smart tv for internet functionality. They'll rave about how thin and bright their new set is and not notice the horrendous flashllighting and clouding because their room is lit up like Death Valley at high noon in July and they're running the set in Dynamic mode. They may notice the speakers aren't very good and come in and buy a $90 sound bar.

TV mfgs. ignore these people at their peril, that's why showrooms are full of led lit lcds and plasmas are disappearing.

I agree with this statement.. It's people that are merely "sheeple" that contribute to this pattern of selecting and purchasing their TV. Fortunately, I don't consider myself one. In late 2011, I bought a Panasonic 55" Viera GT and never looked back. I watch a ton of TV, sometimes not changing the channel for hours and knock on wood, don't have any perceptible IR or BI.

I understand that some people, it seems to be a relatively small percentage, report that they do experience it though. Non of my friends have this problem with their plasma, however. It's too bad that a good number of this group of people listen and take to heart what the "neighbor's hairdresser's mechanic" has to say about mostly very cheap, (to me it's easy to spot cheap/low quality, it's not that hard), 1st Gen plasma experience was years back. Most of the time an "off name brand" item. If they had bothered to dig a little deeper, do some reading like I did, I think they may have been able to make a decision on their own, but then again, maybe not. confused.gif
post #216 of 254
I've owned a 52" XBR4 for 5 years. A few weeks ago, I hit the streets looking to replace the 52" with a 60" without having to bring a Brink's truck along. The XBR has great color, reasonable off-axis color (at 45 degrees), and light from from windows in the room are distracting only for an hour or two during the sunniest days. Even lamps at night for the most part get swallowed up by the matted screen. I brought home two LEDs, one from Samsung, the other Sony. The color washed out to unacceptable levels only about 20-25 degrees off axis. Image (light) reflection was only fair. Next, I evaluated a Pana GT50. As expected, off axis color was superb, but the light reflection was absolutely hideous. Any source of light, regardless of intensity, was mirrored onto the screen. No one in our metro area carries the Pana WT60 IPS LED screens. Am I to believe that there's nothing out there to compete with a 5 year old XBR4 without turning the room into a cave or restricting seating at 10-12 feet away to a area no more than a couple feet from the edge of each screen?
Edited by TLoewenberg - 5/7/13 at 12:38pm
post #217 of 254
^Samsung F8500 or the Panasonic ZT60 shouldn't be ruled out in terms of bright rooms or overcoming reflection, but the cost is greater.
post #218 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Smart? Passive/Active? Glossy/Matte?

Just stabbing in the dark, because I can't find any kdl-46HX850's for sale brand new or from a place with a good return policy, here's a KDL-55HX750 for ~$1435. (Amazon / FBA / Prime)

No, just a black tv that's at least 42 inches and LED. All I care about is picture quality. If I have to spend a little more I will. But I really think 1500 should be more than enough to get a really nice picture these days.

On the one you mentioned, someone complained about light leaks and another that it's not very good for sports.
post #219 of 254
I wouldn't touch any model of an edge-lit LED/LCD flat panel. They all suffer from varying degrees of the "flashlight effect", an inherent flaw in the technology that you've referred to as " not the be-all and end-all in terms of black level and uniformity" for the Vizio Exx1i-A3 LED-Edgelit LCD.

It's an understatement. LED-Edgelit flat panels are junk.

Unfortunately, if you want LED-LCD technology and the same quality you used to get from LCD-only displays, you have to get an LED-LCD with full backlighting. And guess what? It costs a lot more for the same size display of an LED-LCD with full backlighting than it used to cost for LCD-only displays. It's a bigger price increase than you'd pay for inflation, because, after all, you're paying for "new technology."

Here are some examples:

Sony KDL-xxHX850 LED-Edgelit LCD:55" for $2000.00 (your price). Edge-lit equals junk for two thousand dollars. You said, "Despite being edgelit, it garnered high praise from reviewers." Good for them, "despite" that they're willing to pay that kind of money for the Flashlight Effect.

Sony XBR-xxHX950 LED-Full Array Backlighting LCD: 55" for $3200. Whoa! Fork out another $1200.00 to get rid of LED-Edgelit issues. As you yourself say, "The Sony XBR-xxHX950 is one of very few LED-LCD TVs that implement full-array LED backlighting with local dimming, which eliminates the uneven lighting of LED-edgelit designs and greatly expands the contrast in the image with super-deep blacks. This technology is also very expensive...,

Meanwhile, you can get a good LCD-only display with no edge-lighting effects and better blacks for $1200.00 (Amazon price, lower prices from their marketplace sellers):

Sony KDL55BX520 55-Inch Bravia BX520-Series LCD HDTV

Hmmm..... Let me think......
post #220 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

^^^I sell tvs. I can't tell you how many times a customer's been really impressed with the picture quality and price equation on a particular set and been fully ready to pull the trigger until they notice it's a plasma. Then they run in fear because a neighbor's hairdresser's mechanic bought a cheapy Maxent or Haier 7 years ago and had a crappy experience with it. The fact that Panasonic plasmas consistently have the least problems of any flat panel according to Consumer Reports reliability surveys means nothing to them....

Per what I said in an earlier post about the LED-LCD junk that's being foisted on us nowadays, the next time I have to replace a set, I'll be shopping for Plasmas. The poor quality of LED-LCD technology - not just the display, but the sound (because, as you've pointed out, the dimensions of those rail-thin TVs make it impossible for them to house hi-fidelity speakers) also make me amazed that more people are not turning to Plasma.

Really, what is the big deal with LED-LCD? Even if you dish out the big bucks for full-array backlighting, does the display have any lasting power compared to LCD-only displays, which last 5 years tops before LCD "fogging" or total failure occurs?

What's especially galling is that the extended warranty companies are trying to foist the even poorer quality LED-LCD sets as replacements for the LCD-only sets that fail. When that happened to me, I wound up returning 2 defective LED-LCD junkpiles before telling the warranty folks to just "gimme the money." Naturally the money was commensurate with the cost of an Edge-Lit LED set of the same size as the old LCD-only set. It wasn't enough money for an LCD-only replacement ("that's old technology") and of course far less money than a full-array LED/LCD ("not the same level of technology"). There were sooooo many comparisons to "old", "new", and "equivalent" techonologies. And the arguments were soooo fatuous compared to the simple truth: "the contract says we can pay you less than you paid because we decide the kind of technology for the replacement and what level it is. If that happens to amount to cheap junk, tough luck"

Next time it'll be Plasma, hands-down. I don't expect any better treatment from the warranty companies, but I do hope to get better performance and longer screen life. I want to demand unconditional replacement cost on the display warranty, just to see what happens.

I had a lot of steam to work off tonight.
post #221 of 254
Quote:
Per what I said in an earlier post about the LED-LCD junk that's being foisted on us nowadays, the next time I have to replace a set, I'll be shopping for Plasmas.

There won't be any 4K Plasma sets. For 4K, only LED-LCD.
post #222 of 254
Auditor55: are you glad that we're doomed to LCD that sucks?

If LCD sucks bad enough and OLED costs too much do you think that there is any chance of SED coming back?
post #223 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Auditor55: are you glad that we're doomed to LCD that sucks?

If LCD sucks bad enough and OLED costs too much do you think that there is any chance of SED coming back?

No I'm not glad that you're doomed to LCD. I don't think SED is going to come back because the industry is more concerned with scams like 4K, 3D and smart TV.
post #224 of 254
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Samsung F8500 or the Panasonic ZT60 shouldn't be ruled out in terms of bright rooms or overcoming reflection, but the cost is greater.


Especially the F8500, which is way brighter than any other plasma according to all reports. Apparently, in this regard, it spanked the other plasmas in the Value Electronics shoot-out this weekend, about which we'll have a detailed report very soon.

post #225 of 254
^Correct, it's a game changer in the Plasma brightness realm. I'm happy with my Kuro's brightness...I wouldn't complain about a better filter, though.
post #226 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Correct, it's a game changer in the Plasma brightness realm. I'm happy with my Kuro's brightness...I wouldn't complain about a better filter, though.


And better motion resolution as well.
post #227 of 254
I'm late to this thread, but I couldn't resist noting that of the eight choice, only one comes in a size under 50".

Having shopped around for a while, I understand this is just the way it is. You can buy TV's under 50", but mostly lesser TV's with scaled down features. Plus, at any size, if you want decent sound, you're expected to hook up an amplifier and a soundbar or a 5.1 system, etc. A big massive prominent 'system'.

Does everyone live in a barn?

I love TV, I love quality, etc... I just don't want my living room to look like Times Square.
Edited by heinriph - 5/16/13 at 2:27pm
post #228 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by heinriph View Post

I'm late to this thread, but I couldn't resist noting that of the eight choice, only one comes in a size under 50".

Having shopped around for a while, I understand this is just the way it is. You can buy TV's under 50", but mostly lesser TV's with scaled down features. Plus, at any size, if you want decent sound, you're expected to hook up an amplifier and a soundbar or a 5.1 system, etc. A big massive prominent 'system'.

Does everyone live in a barn?

I love TV, I love quality, etc... I just don't want my living room to look like Times Square.

I thoroughly understand that. In fact when I got the 60" I did so against my better judgement. I think overwhelming TVs look overwhelmingly dumb.

But that said, we're having fun with this thing.

I can't IMAGINE what the 70, 80, (and larger) beasts must look like in folks homes.

I still think people are not invoking my JSC Technology enough. Just Sit Closer®.
post #229 of 254
And yet, 80+ is set to be the size that really showcases 4K and proves its upgrade-worthiness. If not, might as well stick a fork in it for the typical home theater.
post #230 of 254
I think the only reason that 4K MIGHT happen is so they can sell an 84-inch TV. You can charge more money and make more money by selling MASSIVE TVs.
post #231 of 254
Like heinriph above, I am a bit late to this thread, but found it in frustration after wanting to purchase a *decent* 40-incher. Not *OMG-this-is-so-perfect-I-could-die*, but decent in terms of overall picture quality, wide viewing angle and no avoidable design flaws (capacitor issues, variable panel supplier sourcing, lighting issues, overheating, weak speakers, etc.). 40 inch is the max due to the size of my cabinet, preferred budget, and common sense - I don't want to be overwhelmed by the presence of the screen. It shouldn't be that uncommon for smaller sets to be in demand - after all, many people buy ~40inch or smaller units for bedrooms and the like. I don't see (m)any plasmas in the small screen range, and those I do know of tend to be 720p.

I currently own a 37-inch 720p Samsung LN37A450 (our first flat panel), and we've been pretty happy with it. We'd like to move it to the rec room and get something a bit upgraded for the main family area, if the price is justified by the performance. I'm happy to purchase another streaming box (probably a WD TV Live, as all my ripped music is in WMA format) and forgo built-in apps to stream local content and Netflix. I'd be happy to hear what the hive mind here can suggest, or (even better) recommend from experince. Barring that, is there a thread here for best performers in the (relatively) smaller sizes?

Thanks in advance for constructive and helpful responses.
post #232 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

I think the only reason that 4K MIGHT happen is so they can sell an 84-inch TV. You can charge more money and make more money by selling MASSIVE TVs.

I went to buy a computer monitor today at Magnolia (love my new IPS monitor- AVS looks great!) and popped into the display room and look, nothing critical, I didn't play with the remote, just a sit for five minutes in the comfy chair in front of the display and it was the 65inch Sony but I thought it looked pretty damn good. I need to go back when I have some more time and check out the settings and really look at color, blacks etc. I thought it looked quite nice and perhaps there is room for 4K at 65 and up.

And I am not being critical either fellas, but while there, I did want to see the Panasonics. I got a look at the VT60 and once again, no fussing with remote, no critical viewing just five minutes with it and this store has no windows in this section and the lights are not overbearing but that display just did not look good. I know Plasma is the darling to most but it just looked dull and lifeless to me. I guess it's great we still have choices and folks should be a bit less critical of the likes of others. Glad there is something for all except I still think it sucks the Elite is gone. I'm feeling a 4K return in my bones! I do really hope so..

Anyway, the 4k feed looked pretty dang good to me. I wonder what it would be like on a 70 to 75 inch display and full local dimming?

Was fun to see it anyway.

Rick
post #233 of 254
Plasmas always look dull in stores (where the lighting is never right). To boot, its not necessary that the feed to the plasmas or settings may be correct
The sheer brightness of LED displays just makes them pop out in stores.
For that reason plasma manufacturers introduced a torch mode (intended for stores) so that the display could be nice and bright
Key thing to note is that the same plasmas look absolutely gorgeous at home

I personally have not come across any LED displays that implement motion the way plasmas do. Something always just seems off to me when it comes to LED displays
post #234 of 254
Were i live there are hundreds of LEDs in the stores and just a few Plasma's or even none. Besides that there is the dull look in the bright environment and lots of not well informed employes. No surprise that Plasma is on its way out...
post #235 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


Especially the F8500, which is way brighter than any other plasma according to all reports. Apparently, in this regard, it spanked the other plasmas in the Value Electronics shoot-out this weekend, about which we'll have a detailed report very soon.

The F8500 might be brighter than other plasma, however that's not saying much because plasmas are not that bright. The F8500, while a nice plasma and brighter, does not compare to LED's. Plasma still look rather dim in comparison and exhibit whites are not true whites, kind of an off or egg shell white.
post #236 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


Especially the F8500, which is way brighter than any other plasma according to all reports. Apparently, in this regard, it spanked the other plasmas in the Value Electronics shoot-out this weekend, about which we'll have a detailed report very soon.

The F8500 might be brighter than other plasma, however that's not saying much because plasmas are not that bright.

You still need to know how much brighter it is in order to make a judgement. Have you seen one?
post #237 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You still need to know how much brighter it is in order to make a judgement. Have you seen one?

Yes I have seen it. A salesperson at Best Buy tried to tell me its just as bright as an LED, sorry its not.
post #238 of 254
Who cares?
post #239 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Who cares?

Actually, that's a penetrating comment:
  • Plasma people don't really care much, and are devoted to plasma for reasons to the side of brightness.
  • LED people are biased against it anyway.
  • And people in the middle are vanishingly rare.

FWIW, I'm still hoping that someone develops a freakshow new plasma tech that is the best of all conceivable worlds that makes the entire industry quake. Because the PQ seems so incredibly smooth to me.
post #240 of 254
Well stated. The aforementioned "forces" have become rather regimental, haven't they? biggrin.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › AVS Roundup of the Best-Reviewed Flat Panel TVs of 2012