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AVS Roundup of the Best-Reviewed Flat Panel TVs of 2012 - Page 3

post #61 of 254
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

Scott, when I referred to Elite I meant the Sharp Elite. MY 141 has just about perfect color calibrated.

Ah, yes, of course! Sorry for the misunderstanding. Tom Norton at HomeTheater.com measured pretty accurate colorimetry on the Sharp Elite as seen here...not quite as good as the Kuro, but darn close. Of course, this is only one brightness level (75%), and the set's color problems, especially with cyan, at different brightness levels are well documented.

 

 

post #62 of 254
No longer a problem, my buddy returned the 65" VT50 for the Sharp 70".
Now it's bright enough to view in his daylight conditions, and his room thermometer no longer reads 80 degrees.
post #63 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

No longer a problem, my buddy returned the 65" VT50 for the Sharp 70".
Now it's bright enough to view in his daylight conditions, and his room thermometer no longer reads 80 degrees.

Hope your buddy enjoys inferior performance smile.gif
post #64 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

Ah, yes, of course! Sorry for the misunderstanding. Tom Norton at HomeTheater.com measured pretty accurate colorimetry on the Sharp Elite as seen here...not quite as good as the Kuro, but darn close. Of course, this is only one brightness level (75%), and the set's color problems, especially with cyan, at different brightness levels are well documented.

Making a correction, the color issues with the Elite is not related to brightness but saturation of the primaries and secondaries. When you calibrate the gamut at 75% luminance(brightness) and 100% saturation, you end up with non-linear saturation tracking below 100%. Cyan is worse of them all with drastic hue errors. Below is a 20% saturation sweep chart of the Elite's color gamut calibrated to 100% saturation targets.



If you calibrate the Elite using 75% luminance and 75% saturation targets, the set will result in much better tracking from 0-75% saturation, which is where most real world content lies. One will have to live with the errors from 75-100% saturation but you end up with a better overall picture including more natural skin tones, tree leaves, etc.
post #65 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Hope your buddy enjoys inferior performance smile.gif

He may actually view it as superior performance. I had both the Pioneer Pro 151 and the Sharp Elite in my home for about a month. I was able to conduct numerous comparisons with a myriad of content. I preferred the Elite and not by a narrow margin.

I'll never understand why people can't accept that each tech has its strength and weaknesses and its the value you put in those strengths as well as the weight you give to the weaknesses that determine what YOU think is the best.
post #66 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

He may actually view it as superior performance. I had both the Pioneer Pro 151 and the Sharp Elite in my home for about a month. I was able to conduct numerous comparisons with a myriad of content. I preferred the Elite and not by a narrow margin.

I'll never understand why people can't accept that each tech has its strength and weaknesses and its the value you put in those strengths as well as the weight you give to the weaknesses that determine what YOU think is the best.

Ken I respect and am aware that he very well may view the 70" Sharp as a superior performer. But unless he exchanged for the Elite, no 70" in Sharp's line will hold a candle to the VT50. That being said, the "wow" factor of a 70" display is nice. And I fully respect the benefits/perks that LCD can bring, and I'm willing to accept that we all have the right to choose. That's what AVS is all about smile.gif
post #67 of 254
Agree Hooz.
post #68 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

My buddy loved the set, but not how it was heating up his apartment when he tried to get the Brightness up to watch the set during the day time!
Sent back for a Sharp LED that's bright, and runs cooler during the day.

How come you are always lurking in any thread that mentions plasmas, just waiting for the opportunity to voice your gripes? Heating up the apartment?! My cable box puts out more heat. Go enjoy your cloudy, artificial picture.
post #69 of 254
I have that Sharp in my living room. So I can actually give opinions based on fact. The fact is the Sharp is awful compared to the 65VT50. The only way I prefer the Sharp is for a brightly lit room. Otherwise, the PQ is easily 300% better on the Panny. Contrast, motion, viewing angles and and color accuracy are leagues better. Did I mention its not a small difference?

Edit: I have the regular Sharp, not the Elite. Just to clarify.
post #70 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

No longer a problem, my buddy returned the 65" VT50 for the Sharp 70".
Now it's bright enough to view in his daylight conditions, and his room thermometer no longer reads 80 degrees.

Here's the problem.

I view my VT50 in daylight conditions all the time. Unless the sun is directly incident on the screen, it presents no problem. And specifically, you have to be at the angle of incidence for it to matter. If the sun comes in at 45 degrees from the left and you are directly perpendicular to the screen, the filter makes the sun a non factor. If you are 45 degrees off the other way, however, you see the "sun spots".

But I watch the VT50 for football, the occasional golf, baseball, etc. And it's plenty bright for daytime viewing.

And this nonsense about the temperature? Just stop.

The thing barely runs warm. I can hold my hand on the back after my TV has been on several hours. Every time I read one of your absurd posts, I actually do this (assuming the TV has been on). And just now, after 3 hours on, I could have held my hand their indefinitely.

I wish the plasma could warm my room even a little, but it just doesn't do a darned thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

He may actually view it as superior performance. I had both the Pioneer Pro 151 and the Sharp Elite in my home for about a month. I was able to conduct numerous comparisons with a myriad of content. I preferred the Elite and not by a narrow margin.

I'll never understand why people can't accept that each tech has its strength and weaknesses and its the value you put in those strengths as well as the weight you give to the weaknesses that determine what YOU think is the best.

Hey, I bet a number of people prefer the Elite to the VT50. That's pretty reasonable (although others will prefer the VT50 to the Elite). What's not reasonable is to have an entirely bogus preference based on entire bogus non-facts about the VT50. That's all.
post #71 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I wish the plasma could warm my room even a little, but it just doesn't do a darned thing.
Hey, I bet a number of people prefer the Elite to the VT50. That's pretty reasonable (although others will prefer the VT50 to the Elite). What's not reasonable is to have an entirely bogus preference based on entire bogus non-facts about the VT50. That's all.

I had suggested to my wife that we get several VT50s for our new place, strategically spreading them across the house to save on our heating bills. My plan is to entirely ditch our heating system and use the VT50s not as TVs, but rather as modified space heaters. biggrin.gif

Only kidding guys. wink.gif

I am actually considering the VT60 as an alternative display for our bedroom. I had been considering a 4K display for our den and moving my Elite to the bedroom, but I'm tending to back off from that now over concerns of their inability to display future 4K 60p (the current and impending 4K crop).

You guys will laugh at one of the annoyances I have with plasma. I currently have a 42" Kuro in our bedroom and I find it nearly impossible to listen to our AM shower radio when I'm showering and my wife is watching the Kuro. I actually never see people commenting on RF interference from plasmas as it relates to AM radio reception, but I do find it annoying. I'm not sure if the Kuros are a worse offender in this area.
post #72 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post

I have that Sharp in my living room. So I can actually give opinions based on fact. The fact is the Sharp is awful compared to the 65VT50. The only way I prefer the Sharp is for a brightly lit room. Otherwise, the PQ is easily 300% better on the Panny. Contrast, motion, viewing angles and and color accuracy are leagues better. Did I mention its not a small difference?

Edit: I have the regular Sharp, not the Elite. Just to clarify.

I would have thought it was 248% better, I'm surprised.
post #73 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Hope your buddy enjoys inferior performance smile.gif

Better check again. My Buddy saw a lot of the problems in the Store Demo unit, but Sharp has done quite a few Ugrades and Mods. His unit is built in January 2013, and he's gone over it with a fine tooth comb, and seeing None of the Problems Forum Members have complained about, nor what he was seeing on the Store Demo Unit.
post #74 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Better check again. My Buddy saw a lot of the problems in the Store Demo unit, but Sharp has done quite a few Ugrades and Mods. His unit is built in January 2013, and he's gone over it with a fine tooth comb, and seeing None of the Problems Forum Members have complained about, nor what he was seeing on the Store Demo Unit.

Hold on now. Are you saying your friend bought a Sharp Elite with a 2013 build date or one of the regular Sharp panels? To the best of my knowledge, 11/12 was the last production run for the Elite. That would be great if what you say applies to the Elite and they've taken care of the Nov build issues.
Edited by Ken Ross - 2/28/13 at 9:36am
post #75 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I had both the Pioneer Pro 151 and the Sharp Elite in my home for about a month. I was able to conduct numerous comparisons with a myriad of content.
I wish I had that problem! biggrin.gif
post #76 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hold on now. Are you saying your friend bought a Sharp Elite with a 2013 build date or one of the regular Sharp panels? To the best of my knowledge, 11/13 was the last production run for the Elite. That would be great if what you say applies to the Elite and they've taken care of the Nov build issues.
Ken, I think you meant 11/12. It is my understanding as well that 11/12 is the last build date and the Elite is no more. It seems that is you want the Elite in the future, you will have to get the $30k 4k.
post #77 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Better check again. My Buddy saw a lot of the problems in the Store Demo unit, but Sharp has done quite a few Ugrades and Mods. His unit is built in January 2013, and he's gone over it with a fine tooth comb, and seeing None of the Problems Forum Members have complained about, nor what he was seeing on the Store Demo Unit.

I'm not doubting the fact that 70" Sharp he picked up is a solid FP. All I was saying is that I can't believe he won't miss the VT50's performance over whatever average Sharp he picked up (assuming he didn't pick up the Elite, which I'm gathering the fact that he didn't.)
post #78 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

Ken, I think you meant 11/12. It is my understanding as well that 11/12 is the last build date and the Elite is no more. It seems that is you want the Elite in the future, you will have to get the $30k 4k.

You're right, I did mean 11/12.

It was also my understanding that 11/12 was the last production run, that's why I was surprised by his friend's 1/13 build date. Probably not an Elite.
post #79 of 254
My buddy went to the store to buy the Sharp after watching so many games on one at the local watering hole. He came home with an ST50.
post #80 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

My buddy went to the store to buy the Sharp after watching so many games on one at the local watering hole. He came home with an ST50.

Sounds like your buddy make a great choice. biggrin.gif
post #81 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Sounds like your buddy make a great choice. biggrin.gif
He came to the conclusion that the Sharp is a good TV but it's not the better TV.
post #82 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

He came to the conclusion that the Sharp is a good TV but it's not the better TV.

And I think most would echo that conclusion.
post #83 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hold on now. Are you saying your friend bought a Sharp Elite with a 2013 build date or one of the regular Sharp panels? To the best of my knowledge, 11/12 was the last production run for the Elite. That would be great if what you say applies to the Elite and they've taken care of the Nov build issues.

I have not mentioned Elite in any of my postings. He has the new 847 panel I believe.
post #84 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Not the Adjustment Brightness Setting, but Brightness overall, so it's able to be seen in a Bright Room. (I know various adjustments will bring up the overall Brightness, or should I have said viewability?)

Just in from my buddy:

Those people are crazy, watching in a basement or dark room with ECO settings on. It does make it livable, but you give up 30% of your Bri/Con and may as well turn the set off. After 2-3 hours of viewing with a digital
thermoniter at 2 feet away I measure 87 degrees and behind the set with the fans blowing it is even hotter. This unit heats the whole 13x13 room and the room next to it, another 13x13.connected with a double doorway with no doors.....Ed

That is laughable. You honestly believe that? Something tells me this guy has never used anything but standard mode or something.

Please don't spread this nonsense around. Not that it matters, hopefully people trust the word of professionals who laud the VT as the best set of the year over some guy who thinks his plasma is heating 350 square feet of living area.

If he's heating that much space with a 159 Watt Device, then good grief, notify Obama. (That's if he has the 65VT50, and I'll even grant him the running it of 24/7). Maybe the guy lives in Arizona. LOL.

We can have divergent opinions on things, even outlandish statements, but outright falsehoods? But then again, perhaps it does good in the long run for the non-technical to see that he's ridiculed for it.
post #85 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

All 3 (remaining) majors have decreased their output, and Panasonic's fiscal situation leaves much to be desired. Market share has decreased steadily, so they won't be produced perpetually.


SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......you-know-who will post soon........ smile.gif
post #86 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFree View Post

I totally agree with you. 4K & 3D passive are the ones to watch for. Every HDTV mentioned no doubt are excellent HDTV's, however for 3d active glasses don't cut it when frienda & relatives attempt to "enjoy" 3D even on the best. These same people enjoy 3D on LG passive hdtv & "free passive 3d glasses. We are waiting for LG to come out with a affordible 3D passive front projector using these same 3D passivew 3D glasses.

I too am completely impressed even with the 1920x540 (passive) LG's. But in general though? The panel off-angle, uniformity, and flashlighting/bleed is horrible, and I didn't find it the least bit surprising to have LG not even mentioned by the Scott.
post #87 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......you-know-who will post soon........ smile.gif
No ribbing now. It has my depressed enough as is. mad.gif
post #88 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I would have thought it was 248% better, I'm surprised.

What made you choose this sarcastic response over the one you just deleted? Neither was particularly clever or funny.
post #89 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post

What made you choose this sarcastic response over the one you just deleted? Neither was particularly clever or funny.

I guess I always find it funny when someone posts these absolute percentages. But hey 'clever & funny' (or lack thereof) are in the eyes of the beholder. Don't take it to heart. smile.gif
post #90 of 254
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


I too am completely impressed even with the 1920x540 (passive) LG's. But in general though? The panel off-angle, uniformity, and flashlighting/bleed is horrible, and I didn't find it the least bit surprising to have LG not even mentioned by the Scott.

"The Scott"? Is that like "The Donald"? wink.gif Seriously, I didn't include any LGs because only one of the sites I consulted had an LG in its top picks, and I was trying to find flat panels that more than one site agreed was at or near the top of the performance and/or value heap. On the other hand, I'm with you in preferring passive 3D, even at half vertical resolution per eye. The end result looks better than that spec would seem to indicate.

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