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New Sony ES premium speaker line - Page 2

post #31 of 57
2/24/13 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSW View Post

Have you heard a tweeter array like that before? I'm wondering how it sounds and what difference it makes.
To tell the truth it looks very odd. One would think that the smaller domes are run in a higher bandwidth than the one larger one, but if so having them so far apart invites some pretty serious lobing issues. Perhaps they're wired out of polarity. Who knows? For all that cash I'd want to see less hype and more data.
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post #32 of 57
2/25/13 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSW View Post

Have you heard a tweeter array like that before? I'm wondering how it sounds and what difference it makes.
To tell the truth it looks very odd. One would think that the smaller domes are run in a higher bandwidth than the one larger one, but if so having them so far apart invites some pretty serious lobing issues. Perhaps they're wired out of polarity. Who knows?

For what it's worth, it seems that all three tweeters are being fed the same signal, based on the fact that the bookshelf, for example, is described by Sony as a 2-way. The only other instance I've seen of a vertical three-tweeter array is the M&K S-150 (looks like three identical tweeters, though), and I believe in that case it was done to significantly narrow its vertical dispersion, per THX guidelines (there are also speakers that are configured and used as phased arrays for special purposes). Why Sony did something vaguely similar with their new high-end hi-fi speaker series, using two different tweeters instead, is still a bit of a mystery.
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post #33 of 57
2/25/13 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

For what it's worth, it seems that all three tweeters are being fed the same signal, based on the fact that the bookshelf, for example, is described by Sony as a 2-way.
Using three in a vertical array will reduce vertical dispersion, and that's a logical move. Using two different tweeters is odd, especially with one larger and two smaller. I could see using two larger tweeters and one smaller in a sort of MTM arrangement, but not what they did. It might be easily explained, but their lack of any documentation is rather Bose-esque.
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post #34 of 57
2/25/13 at 2:27pm
Hi All,

I am probably the least qualified of people here to ascertain sound quality but this weekend gone, I went to a HiFi Show in which Sony were demonstrating 4K HD Video. The sound was via 5.1 Sony Speakers that looked identical to these new ones being discussed. All I can say, is to me, they sounded really, really crap - I was quite shocked & remember thinking to myself, how such nice looking speakers & top end ones could be so uninspiring to even a noob like me. I was kinda hoping they would really making a statement of just how good top end Japanese speakers can sound but it this was simply not the case. Decades ago, I heard the Yamaha NS1000M's & even now, I remember that they were way better in every way than these new Sony Speakers!

Bazzy!
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post #35 of 57
2/25/13 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi All,

I am probably the least qualified of people here to ascertain sound quality but this weekend gone, I went to a HiFi Show in which Sony were demonstrating 4K HD Video. The sound was via 5.1 Sony Speakers that looked identical to these new ones being discussed. All I can say, is to me, they sounded really, really crap - I was quite shocked & remember thinking to myself, how such nice looking speakers & top end ones could be so uninspiring to even a noob like me. I was kinda hoping they would really making a statement of just how good top end Japanese speakers can sound but it this was simply not the case. Decades ago, I heard the Yamaha NS1000M's & even now, I remember that they were way better in every way than these new Sony Speakers!

Bazzy!
The only (very brief) review I've seen was this one from Audioholics: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/sony-ss-na2es-ces-2013
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The sound was natural and the bass was tight and punchy.
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They certainly look to be well designed, and sounded good at our demo. Make no mistake however that all of the upper echelon Sony loudspeakers are being engineered and crafted to a higher standard than we've seen produced by them in many years.

So I'm not sure whether you heard the same speakers but they seemed to be impressed enough.
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post #36 of 57
2/25/13 at 3:05pm
I'm willing to bet that any ~$60,000, nine-speaker + two-subwoofer configuration set up in a dedicated space and playing (carefully?) processed audio will have sound that is natural and bass that is tight and punchy. And if it doesn't, someone really needs to be fired. biggrin.gif
Edited by eljaycanuck - 2/25/13 at 3:20pm
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post #37 of 57
2/25/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

My feeling is that anyone who can afford that much for speakers makes too damn much money to begin with, probably by fleecing others, so their getting fleeced in return doesn't cause me to lose sleep. cool.gif

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum. Congratulations...rolleyes.gif
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post #38 of 57
2/25/13 at 8:00pm
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum. Congratulations...rolleyes.gif
Not as dumb as paying $3k for a 2x5 center. rolleyes.gif
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The only (very brief) review I've seen was this one from Audioholics
So I'm not sure whether you heard the same speakers but they seemed to be impressed enough
Ever seen anything they didn't like?
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post #39 of 57
2/26/13 at 5:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Ever seen anything they didn't like?
Very true I haven't, it's just that when speakers get into these price points it's not whether they sound good it's whether they sound good enough to justify the price. Stereophile declared them to be the "best sound of the show", I know they are another website that isn't known for being critical but these speakers must be doing something right.
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post #40 of 57
2/26/13 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSW View Post

Very true I haven't, it's just that when speakers get into these price points it's not whether they sound good it's whether they sound good enough to justify the price. Stereophile declared them to be the "best sound of the show", I know they are another website that isn't known for being critical but these speakers must be doing something right.
I'm sure they sound just fine. But a 2x5 center is only capable of so much, and IME what it's capable of plateaus at $1k. For that matter the difference between one at $1k and one at $500 will be slight.
Back in 1982 or thereabouts Motor Trend declared the new Renault the import of the year. Based on that I bought one. Worst car I've ever owned. I'll put faith in reviews from ad driven sources when I see them say that something, anything, sucks.
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post #41 of 57
2/27/13 at 7:54am
What do you think of the frequency response graph for this enthusiastic review of the $200,000/pair Wilson Audio Specialties Alexandra XLF?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexandria-xlf-loudspeaker-measurements
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post #42 of 57
2/27/13 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

Well, I agree. I'm not saying everything they make is junk. Just that they really push TVs to the extreme. And they make the typical consumer stuff, as you mentioned. Really high end AV really hasn't been their focus, minus televisions.

Sony's presence in the TV business has been going down for years. Samsung, Panasonic and Sharp make the best TVs nowadays. I don't think Sony makes any of their own TVs anymore. They rebrand other manufacturers.

They certainly don't push TVs to the extreme. More likely they'll eventually drop out of the TV business altogether as the future of the unit looks bleak.
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post #43 of 57
2/27/13 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I'm sure they sound just fine. But a 2x5 center is only capable of so much, and IME what it's capable of plateaus at $1k. For that matter the difference between one at $1k and one at $500 will be slight.
Back in 1982 or thereabouts Motor Trend declared the new Renault the import of the year. Based on that I bought one. Worst car I've ever owned. I'll put faith in reviews from ad driven sources when I see them say that something, anything, sucks.
It's pretty sad when you can't even trust reviewers and I agree on the centre. Also a dual 10" sub like that should not be hitting 4 figures either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

What do you think of the frequency response graph for this enthusiastic review of the $200,000/pair Wilson Audio Specialties Alexandra XLF?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexandria-xlf-loudspeaker-measurements
I read that a little while ago and my jaw almost hit the floor when I saw the frequency response, that's really bad for speakers selling at 1k let alone these which retail for 200 times that! eek.gif

It makes me wonder why Wilson make their speakers so ugly? It obviously isn't helping with the sound so is it just to fool people into thinking it is?
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post #44 of 57
2/27/13 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSW View Post

It's pretty sad when you can't even trust reviewers and I agree on the centre. Also a dual 10" sub like that should not be hitting 4 figures either.
I read that a little while ago and my jaw almost hit the floor when I saw the frequency response, that's really bad for speakers selling at 1k let alone these which retail for 200 times that! eek.gif
+1.
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It makes me wonder why Wilson make their speakers so ugly? It obviously isn't helping with the sound so is it just to fool people into thinking it is?
+1. The uninformed might think that no one would make a speaker that ugly unless they did so because it made it work better than an attractive speaker. And anyone who'd consider even $20k let alone $200k for a speaker is quite uninformed. Of course, it doesn't help when you have reviewers praising this stuff. I wouldn't put them in the same category as pedophile priests in terms of how much of a disservice they do to those who count on them for guidance, but I wouldn't rate them all that far behind either. Maybe just at the Bernie Madoff level.
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post #45 of 57
2/27/13 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Sony's presence in the TV business has been going down for years. Samsung, Panasonic and Sharp make the best TVs nowadays. I don't think Sony makes any of their own TVs anymore. They rebrand other manufacturers.

They certainly don't push TVs to the extreme. More likely they'll eventually drop out of the TV business altogether as the future of the unit looks bleak.

I'm not saying they make their own TVs. But, they still sell all of their TVs at a premium over other brands, when other brands are just as good, if not better. Sure seems to me like they think a lot of their TVs and think they can get away with charging way above the competition, thus my comment about them pushing TVs. Also, considering, they don't really make anything else that I'd really consider high-end, other than some of their flagship model TVs. They make some average performing, mid-range receivers, but still, most people would go with another brand other than Sony, for a receiver. They make your typical consumer electronics, and the Playstation brand. The only thing they really charge an arm and a leg for are their TVs. Seems like a form of pushing and focusing on TVs, to me.
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post #46 of 57
2/27/13 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

What do you think of the frequency response graph for this enthusiastic review of the $200,000/pair Wilson Audio Specialties Alexandra XLF?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexandria-xlf-loudspeaker-measurements

Not great, but who cares when you can afford $200,000 speakers? biggrin.gif
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post #47 of 57
2/27/13 at 8:31pm
For what it's worth Stereophile said these speakers were best of the show for CEDIA 2013. HT Mag picked them as best of show as well. I'm personally very interested in the speakers. Sony speakers have a very smooth, non- fatiguing sound.

I'm a little concerend about the center, however. I'm not a big fan of typical MTM center designs.

-Brian
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post #48 of 57
2/27/13 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

What do you think of the frequency response graph for this enthusiastic review of the $200,000/pair Wilson Audio Specialties Alexandra XLF?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexandria-xlf-loudspeaker-measurements

Why did I read through all those comments? Someone seems a little bitter about people saying bad things about his babies. I guess it's the same with any of these hobbies though. Some people have more money than sense and there's something to cater to those folks too.
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post #49 of 57
2/27/13 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycholis View Post

Why did I read through all those comments? Someone seems a little bitter about people saying bad things about his babies. I guess it's the same with any of these hobbies though. Some people have more money than sense and there's something to cater to those folks too.

Wow, the author of that review is a complete pompous ass.. But then again, he likes his $10K speaker and power cables, so perhaps I am the fool...
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post #50 of 57
2/27/13 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

For what it's worth Stereophile said these speakers were best of the show for CEDIA 2013. HT Mag picked them as best of show as well. I'm personally very interested in the speakers. Sony speakers have a very smooth, non- fatiguing sound.

I'm a little concerend about the center, however. I'm not a big fan of typical MTM center designs.

-Brian
Agreed on all points. It still boggles my mind how many speaker manufacturers put so much time and money into their speaker ranges only to build undersized and under engineered centre speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycholis View Post

Why did I read through all those comments? Someone seems a little bitter about people saying bad things about his babies. I guess it's the same with any of these hobbies though. Some people have more money than sense and there's something to cater to those folks too.
I did the same thing, I'm glad they didn't remove them as it gave me some good insight on the knowledge and maturity level of the reviewer (also his belief in cable magic).
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post #51 of 57
2/28/13 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

So we're going to judge people because they have more money than we do?

What if they are billionaires who just like to collect speakers like people collect paintings? They are senseless for that?

I don't think anyone judged the person for his money. They were questioning the fact that such expensive speakers measured poorly. The author jumped down peoples throats calling them morons and idiots. He acted like a child. As for people having more money, if I would have cashed out some of my retirement savings (like the author did as mentioned in the comments by his editor) I could afford the speakers too. But we are the morons rolleyes.gif
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post #52 of 57
2/28/13 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I don't think anyone judged the person for his money. They were questioning the fact that such expensive speakers measured poorly. The author jumped down peoples throats calling them morons and idiots. He acted like a child. As for people having more money, if I would have cashed out some of my retirement savings (like the author did as mentioned in the comments by his editor) I could afford the speakers too. But we are the morons rolleyes.gif

Oh, in that case, let's get him! mad.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #53 of 57
2/28/13 at 6:50am
AcuraDefTechGuy,

I've seen the pictures of your collection of super high end speakers that you listed in your sig including darlings like the Phils. What do you have to say about what spending say, $20K on speaker versus a superb $5K one gets you? it seems some of the higher end brands may not measure that much better if you just look at raw charts and such
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post #54 of 57
2/28/13 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

AcuraDefTechGuy,

I've seen the pictures of your collection of super high end speakers that you listed in your sig including darlings like the Phils. What do you have to say about what spending say, $20K on speaker versus a superb $5K one gets you? it seems some of the higher end brands may not measure that much better if you just look at raw charts and such

I definitely don't think we need to spend close to that kind of money for great sounding speakers. biggrin.gif

But we all certainly have our own personal reasons for buying what we buy.

And even if we disagree, we can still respect one another. wink.gif

As far as comparing charts & measurements, I think it's probably not fair to compare 3rd party measurements vs 1st party/ manufacturer measurements.

For example, Revel's own measurements of the Salon2/ Studio 2 is like +/-0.5dB. S&V Magazine measured the Salon2 as +/-1.3dB, while HTM, Stereophile, & Soundstage/NRC measured a little different.
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post #55 of 57
2/28/13 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Wow, the author of that review is a complete pompous ass.. But then again, he likes his $10K speaker and power cables, so perhaps I am the fool...
That's what happens when you drink your own kool-aid. If he thinks cables make a difference because they carry a high price tag of course he'll think that a high price tag makes a speaker better as well. I'd love to see his reaction to a true double-blind test that proved all of his notions totally false.
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post #56 of 57
2/28/13 at 5:45pm
Thread Starter 
Home Theater seems pretty impressed:
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Lacking the high-end street cred of a boutique brand, Sony probably won't get much credit for producing the best sound of CES 2013 (at least so far) with its new ES speakers. The NA-2 tower ($10,000/pair), NA-5 monitor ($6000/pair), N-8 center ($3000), and matching sub ($4000) have the same Scandinavian-made multi-chambered birch cabinetry of the existing AR-1 and AR-2. Note the triple tweeter configuration, shown here on the center but present on all the new models. No, you're not seeing two super-tweeters flanking a tweeter, just three tweeters, though they're not the same size and are not all getting exactly the same frequencies (we'll have to get into the intricacies some other time). Fed by Pass amps and high-res sources including vinyl and DSD, the tower established an instant comfort zone with its super silky sweet top end, fatigue-free and convincing midrange, and controlled bass. In addition to today's press announcement at the Venetian, Sony is also showing the ES speakers in a 9.2-channel configuration at its gigantic booth in Central Hall.

Some info from tech guide also, along with some very positive impressions.
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post #57 of 57
2/28/13 at 5:57pm
I'd love for sony to make a high end speaker again. This is my dark secret but I used to be a big sony fan. I had a set of SS-TL4 transmission line towers that I didn't even know existed and a full set of their 90s speakers to make a 5.1 system. All bought at thrift stores and costing less than 500 for the entire set including receiver. My audio memory is probably not great but those TL-4s weren't any slouches. This was during a time when they were in a sort of golden age and some of the products they made were half decent (especially used at a thrift shop).
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