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Best Surround Processor Currently Available? - Page 22

Poll Results: Best Multi-Channel processor currently on the market?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 11% (23)
    Classe SSP800
  • 10% (21)
    Bryton SP3
  • 1% (3)
    ADA Mach IV
  • 13% (27)
    ADA Mach IV+Trinnov
  • 20% (42)
    Datasat RS20i
  • 15% (32)
    Theta CB3 HDMI + Extreme Dacs
  • 5% (12)
    Krell Evolution 707
  • 11% (24)
    Mcintosh MX151
  • 7% (15)
    JBL Synthesis with SDEC 4500
  • 14% (31)
    Other (comment on your answer)
207 Total Votes  
post #631 of 817

Do you foresee anymore frivolous spending regarding audio?

post #632 of 817
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

I'll take your money. You're pretty confident. What sort of odds are you offering?

(12 channels)

With Theta' s track record, no way 60 days... smile.gif
Edited by adidino - 10/2/13 at 4:52pm
post #633 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post

I recommend a HTPC with Dirac or or Audiolense and the exa sound e18 or exa sound e28 usb multi-channel Dacs. Both use the Sabre32 1908 chip and they are DSD, DSX compatible. You'd have plenty of money for a huge NAS server as well!!! wink.gif

I just got a ExaSound E28 so I am looking forward to trying it out with my HTPC! What are you running?
post #634 of 817
I also just received my Exasound e28 DAC and it sounds absolutely awesome. Definitely better than my Meridian 861. The only issue with it, is that you currently cannot use it during the calibration of Dirac because of the buffer is to low. I have already engaged both Dirac and the DAC developer and a solution will come soon. This does not mean you cannot process through the Dirac processor in combination with this DAC because you can and I have that working. The problem is that the latency is so low on this DAC driver that Dirac doesn't allow doing a filter calibration because it wants a higher latency buffer to do 8 channels at 96000. In fact, it didn't work for me on my RME Multiface until 2048, and the DAC is loading at 256. Dirac is going to work on letting their software calibrate at a lower latency, while the developer of the DAC is going to work on a driver update to help with this process (allowing a higher latency setting).

Tonight I receive my cables for my RME Multiface that will allow me to use it to create my filters and apply them to the e28. This weekend will be an all out assault of movies and high resolution music. The only problem for me with this setup is the limitation of 8 channels maximum.

Maestro2be
Edited by Maestro2be - 10/3/13 at 6:20am
post #635 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro2be View Post

I also just received my Exasound e28 DAC and it sounds absolutely awesome. Definitely better than my Meridian 861. The only issue with it, is that you currently cannot use it during the calibration of Dirac because of the buffer is to low. I have already engaged both Dirac and the DAC developer and a solution will come soon.

Tonight I receive my cables for my RME Multiface that will allow me to use it to create my filters and apply them to the e28. This weekend will be an all out assault of movies and high resolution music. The only problem for me with this setup is the limitation of 8 channels maximum.

Maestro2be

I'm tellin' you guys. For best sounds achievable the DACs need to be stripped out of the digital processor box. This principle has been well established in 2 channel, and this architecture is now emerging in MCH. Theta's digi out card will do the trick, you can do it with a HTPC driving DACs directly, or a processor like Datasat or Trinnov. A good compromise is 2 channel outboard DACs for mains, and other channels driven by onboard DACs (as most Theta + GenVIII users are currently doing).
post #636 of 817
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro2be View Post

I also just received my Exasound e28 DAC and it sounds absolutely awesome. Definitely better than my Meridian 861. The only issue with it, is that you currently cannot use it during the calibration of Dirac because of the buffer is to low. I have already engaged both Dirac and the DAC developer and a solution will come soon. This does not mean you cannot process through the Dirac processor in combination with this DAC because you can and I have that working. The problem is that the latency is so low on this DAC driver that Dirac doesn't allow doing a filter calibration because it wants a higher latency buffer to do 8 channels at 96000. In fact, it didn't work for me on my RME Multiface until 2048, and the DAC is loading at 256. Dirac is going to work on letting their software calibrate at a lower latency, while the developer of the DAC is going to work on a driver update to help with this process (allowing a higher latency setting).

Tonight I receive my cables for my RME Multiface that will allow me to use it to create my filters and apply them to the e28. This weekend will be an all out assault of movies and high resolution music. The only problem for me with this setup is the limitation of 8 channels maximum.

Maestro2be

Interesting Maestro.

How does it compare to your demo of the Datasat since that might be more apples to apples since the Datasat is running Dirac as well.
Edited by adidino - 10/3/13 at 7:44am
post #637 of 817
In terms of pure DAC performance this e28 is superior to the Datasat RS20i DAC. This is without any processing for either of them (meaning, no Dirac for the Datasat and no Dirac for the e28).

The sound of this DAC is so smooth and non-fatiguing it's almost creepy because I didn't expect it to be so good. It constantly has me turning it up more and more and I simply cannot get any pain out of it. I was even listening to it at 95-105db of constant volume at my listening position. Which as you would be aware, this is very loud. During peek movie explosions etc. it was pushing over 105db at my listening position and never hurt me or my wifes ears (I use all Active ATC speakers). It was the first time in my life, that I was able to create a massive wall of sound that was so loud I had to turn it down finally (notice I did not say painful experience or frequency causing me to turn it down). I mean, literally, there was just SO MUCH VOLUME that the room and us couldn't handle more volume. It's hard to explain this. I wasn't feeling "pain". I was just feeling that my body and ears cannot take any more volume. This was a dramatic change from all my previous experiences of painful frequencies etc. making me reach for the remote to turn it down, and then back up for dialog scenes.

I expect the e28 with my HTPC to beat the Datasat (which was my original belief as well) after applying the Dirac processing to it but that needs to be heard first (and all the filters setup as well). In respect of not starting a bashing war about the Datasat, I will tell you of all the demo's I have ever done it was the best of them all when the Dirac was engaged up to this point. The only ones I still have left to really demo are the Trinnov and the McIntosh MX151. But again, I suspect it will be in a step above come this weekend simply due to the fact that out of the gate performance (using only speaker distance and level calibration on both Datasat and e28) the e28 is the clear winner in sound quality for me and my wife.

However, it is possible that using Dirac creates a much more even response for ANY DAC or processor thrown into the mix due to how it fixes/corrects so many flaws. People are making claims that Dirac can make cheap DAC's and sound cards sound almost as good as the best of them out there. I will know for sure if this is true or not within 1 weeks time as I have an 8 channel DAC that is quite painful to my ears that I will be testing against the Datasat and the e28 to see if I can still hear a distinct difference between them all. If they all sound the same to me or virtually 95%, then it becomes to me more important who can provide me the fastest and best updates to future changes.
post #638 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

I'll take your money. You're pretty confident. What sort of odds are you offering?

(12 channels)

It's a suckers bet (for you). But I'll put up an '06 Ken Wright Cellars Pinot (Savoya) that is drinking nicely now. Just had a biottle and have a few left. I think I paid $70 five years ago.
The only deadlines Theta makes are missed ones.biggrin.gif

60 days from CEDIA until we see one here at AVS. I'm sure Steve or some other Theta sycophant will be number #1, first to receive!wink.gif
post #639 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

It's a suckers bet (for you). But I'll put up an '06 Ken Wright Cellars Pinot (Savoya) that is drinking nicely now. Just had a biottle and have a few left. I think I paid $70 five years ago.
The only deadlines Theta makes are missed ones.biggrin.gif

60 days from CEDIA until we see one here at AVS. I'm sure Steve or some other Theta sycophant will be number #1, first to receive!wink.gif

You might need to wrap that bottle up real well as Steve is in London. Perhaps it would be best delivered by hand smile.gif
post #640 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post

You might need to wrap that bottle up real well as Steve is in London. Perhaps it would be best delivered by hand smile.gif

Hmmm... I think I'm safe. Perhaps, he'll deliver mine.smile.gif
post #641 of 817
Jeff, since Theta hasn't historically ever been "on time", don't you think the odds are 100 - 1? So if he bets one wine bottle, you should be betting a used Theta Generation VIII Series 3 DAC in his system. He can use it.
post #642 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Jeff, since Theta hasn't historically ever been "on time", don't you think the odds are 100 - 1? So if he bets one wine bottle, you should be betting a used Theta Generation VIII Series 3 DAC in his system. He can use it.

I assume that because he was so eager to take the bet, he feels his odds of winning are 100% - so 100 -1. So, my pinot for a bottle of Petrus.biggrin.gif
post #643 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

I think that before you talk you should know better the company, if they weren't good, they would not have the work they have and sell what they sell.

The guy and his company, TUC, is a sham. He has no background in EE. His ideas about shielding have no foundation in established EE theory. That blue crap he globs all over circuit boards simply ruins the gear. He posted some bs about it being some kind of restricted military product but then we found its actually made in a garage buy yet another audio snake oil charlatan.

Let's see some test reports from a certified lab. And that's not 6 moons or The Absolute Sound either!
post #644 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

The guy and his company, TUC, is a sham. He has no background in EE. His ideas about shielding have no foundation in established EE theory. That blue crap he globs all over circuit boards simply ruins the gear. He posted some bs about it being some kind of restricted military product but then we found its actually made in a garage buy yet another audio snake oil charlatan.

Let's see some test reports from a certified lab. And that's not 6 moons or The Absolute Sound either!

For folks like yourself who require such things as test reports from a certified lab, EE backgground, EE theory, etc, I can understand that you would not think positively of these kinds of upgrades. My old dealer (in business in Phoenix for 20 years and then forced to close down a couple of years ago), sold all sorts of gear from Arcam, Pass Labs, Cary, YBA, Cambridge, etc, but he also did some mods on my Cambridge CD player. He doesn't have a EE background and didn't have any foundation of established EE theory; however, his mods sounded great. At least, I knew him, and knew that I could go see him face to face, if there was any issue. With David and The Upgrade Company, I was a little worried at first, but the upgrade definitely had improved the performance, so I was happy. And, I've been happy ever since, with the several upgrades he's done to other pieces of equipment. For me and my preferences, it's been a good direction to go.

Dave
post #645 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

The guy and his company, TUC, is a sham......

Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

For folks like yourself who require such things as test reports from a certified lab, EE backgground, EE theory, etc, I can understand that you would not think positively of these kinds of upgrades.....

Gents, can we please remain on-topic and avoid a detour into TUC nonsense? Lengthy discussion may already be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336902/how-do-i-verify-or-debunk-the-claims-of-the-upgrade-company

or much more in an earlier thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1198719/the-upgrade-company-component-mods
post #646 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Hmmm... I think I'm safe. Perhaps, he'll deliver mine.smile.gif

A single bottle of '06 pinot? You're kidding, right?
post #647 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

A single bottle of '06 pinot? You're kidding, right?

It's a really good Pinot... and sold out.
post #648 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post


Gents, can we please remain on-topic and avoid a detour into TUC nonsense? Lengthy discussion may already be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336902/how-do-i-verify-or-debunk-the-claims-of-the-upgrade-company

or much more in an earlier thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1198719/the-upgrade-company-component-mods

Agreed, unless TUC SE Processors are mentioned as a competitor for the Best Surround Processor smile.gif
post #649 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

Agreed, unless TUC SE Processors are mentioned as a competitor for the Best Surround Processor smile.gif

TUC will turn lead into gold. Give him a $500 processor and what will come back will beat the crap out of anything south of $30K (at least so he claims) - all this without touching a single active component. I admit to having done a few upgrades with TUC, but his claims became so outlandish and patently absurd I moved on.
post #650 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

TUC will turn lead into gold. Give him a $500 processor and what will come back will beat the crap out of anything south of $30K (at least so he claims) - all this without touching a single active component. I admit to having done a few upgrades with TUC, but his claims became so outlandish and patently absurd I moved on.

Well, since you couldn't help yourself, despite RUR's kind request, (and since this thread is about surround processors) I will respond. I have an SE Onkyo 5508 processor from the upgrade company. Thus far, it has bettered my Arcam AV888, as well as my Krell S-1200U 3D. Considering the prices of these processors, the cost of the SE Onkyo 5508 is what I consider a good value. From there, it's entirely possible to venture a guess that the best processor would be one that is considered tops here, and is then upgraded by TUC.

Dave
post #651 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

Well, since you couldn't help yourself, despite RUR's kind request, (and since this thread is about surround processors) I will respond. I have an SE Onkyo 5508 processor from the upgrade company. Thus far, it has bettered my Arcam AV888, as well as my Krell S-1200U 3D. Considering the prices of these processors, the cost of the SE Onkyo 5508 is what I consider a good value. From there, it's entirely possible to venture a guess that the best processor would be one that is considered tops here, and is then upgraded by TUC.

Dave

Interesting. I had one of his upgraded Onkyo pre/pro's as well, using it mainly a MCH analog preamp (source was Pioneer BDP-09). When he sold me this he assured me this was the best MCH analog preamp could buy.

Then I got a Theta Six Shooter which completely trounced the Onkyo. He then told me "of course, what were you thinking, without $500 worth of audiophile fuses (I believe the Onkyo has 9 fuses), the Onkyo will sound like crap - I'll give you 10% off the fuses".

I'm not even saying his upgrades don't work - have not done enough A/B to conclusively say that. But I just can't deal with this used car salesman style of operations and his tendency to divide the universe into pieces that sound like total crap (the one he has not touched) and those that are the very best money can buy at any price (the stuff he has touched).
post #652 of 817
This is all just poppycock, everyone knows that the ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV is the best processor in the world....I said so over a year ago.....weren't you guys listening??

biggrin.gif


I love threads like this...





Total time suck.



Dan
post #653 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

This is all just poppycock, everyone knows that the ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV is the best processor in the world....I said so over a year ago.....weren't you guys listening??

biggrin.gif


I love threads like this...





Total time suck.



Dan

The best maybe, the best to use probably not.
post #654 of 817
You've used it?
post #655 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

You've used it?

No i haven't, that's why i said maybe it's the best, and i am not taking it's credits.However from what i know and discussed previosly with an expert is that Trinnov is very complex to use, when compared to the Datasat for example.
Of course ADA is supreme, but it's like having a Buggatti Veyron and you cannot take advantage of it.
post #656 of 817
I have used both, it's well-documented, in fact I'm part of the reason the RS20i is so easy to use, and I'm going to tell you first-hand that if you want the best out of either unit, a professional is required. For an experienced professional both are easy to setup, Trinnov is a more powerful tool, and both are easy to control.

For the end user, both are equally easy to use.

Do not confuse Dirac manipulation vs. Trinnov manipulation for end user experience: they are very different situations.

Dan
post #657 of 817
I have to chime in. I do not find Trinnov difficult to use at all. Yes the Ada / trinnov GUI may not be as simple as the Datasat but if you can use a pc then both systems are quite simple.

The biggest hurdle can be with the Ada side of the software as this can be setup incorrectly and can cause what one would think of to be a fault when in fact its a user setup error. There is a reason the Ada software is not meant for the end user.

I very much love the Datasat unit, which is why I purchased it. Also its only £18000 as apposed to £48000 for the Ada top dog.
post #658 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I have used both, it's well-documented, in fact I'm part of the reason the RS20i is so easy to use, and I'm going to tell you first-hand that if you want the best out of either unit, a professional is required. For an experienced professional both are easy to setup, Trinnov is a more powerful tool, and both are easy to control.

For the end user, both are equally easy to use.

Do not confuse Dirac manipulation vs. Trinnov manipulation for end user experience: they are very different situations.

Dan

Then one of these days expect a PM from me as i would love to learn more about the difference of the 2 products. smile.gif
post #659 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTheater View Post

Trinnov is very complex to use

Not my experience at all. Any digital correction system takes awhile to get the hang of. I've found the Trinnov software easier to use than the DEQX, not much harder than Meridian's, and quite a bit easier than Audiolense and Acourate
post #660 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Not my experience at all. Any digital correction system takes awhile to get the hang of. I've found the Trinnov software easier to use than the DEQX, not much harder than Meridian's, and quite a bit easier than Audiolense and Acourate

Since you mention Meridian, is their processor in pair with ADA and Datasat?
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