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2014 list of consumer available DVR's - Page 6

post #151 of 472
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


I can tell you Canadian stations looks better than American stations viewing the same program. wink.gif

That could be because Canadian stations aren't allowed sub-channels, while most American stations have them.

Close, but no cigar. The times, they may be changing!

I've wondered about the lack of Vancouver, BC subchannels. Their OTA does look real real sharp.
post #152 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

You do you know the original purpose was compatibility with existing 4x3 SD TV's as in CRTs? It wasn't a ''tuner' issue but a display issue. But, that was then and it isn't necessary anymore.
Since PBS was mentioned, I was told by station engineer of the local affiliate it was a PBS requirement to provide a SD sub channel of their main channel. Is this true?
Don't forget cable companies still might use the 4:3 feed for their SD channels. AFA PBS, my local PBS channel has never had a SD mirror, we have many PBS SD subs but no mirrors. We use to have a nice PBS HD(different than PBS in HD) channel but that went away several years ago.
I agree SD mirrors have outlived there usefulness, in my market only FOX and MyTV still have mirrors.
post #153 of 472
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I agree SD mirrors have outlived there usefulness, in my market only FOX and MyTV still have mirrors.
I think the primary reason for cable co's to broadcast SD versions of their native HD feeds is so they can charge you extra for HD.
post #154 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I think the primary reason for cable co's to broadcast SD versions of their native HD feeds is so they can charge you extra for HD.
Cable, yes, but that doesn't explain OTA stations’ doing it.
post #155 of 472
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Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Cable, yes, but that doesn't explain OTA stations’ doing it.
Yes, I agree it doesn't make much sense for an OTA station to do that.
post #156 of 472
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

As far as digital TV is concerned, modern DVR's capture the digital transport stream as it is broadcast and do no processing of the signal. So the PQ is identical to the as-broadcast PQ.

Excellent - that's good to know!.....and, I couldn't agree more with your tag line. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

.....all DVR's (that I know of) record exactly as delivered. They don't reduce quality.....this doesn't mean that the downstream processing of the actual output signal will be as good. One example of that is the VRX from ePVision.....lower bitrate transmissions will cause false contouring on those recordings, where the same recording played back on a PC will not show this.

Being new at this, I forgot to include some other concerns and needs. Whatever DVR I buy, IF it has an HDD, it will be mandatory that I can transfer the recorded programs from the HDD to my I-Mac, without losing PQ, even if I have do this in real-time. So, are you saying (above) that some DVRs will record video without losing PQ, but, when they playback the recordings they use lower bit rates causing PQ of the video coming out of the DVR to degrade ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


In one word: compression. Or lack of. There is no free lunch. Digital material, namely video takes up a HUGE amount of space, hence the needed to compress. It doesn't stop there, satellite and CATV companies usually go further and compress more to fit 10 lbs of **** into a 1 lb bag.
Ah, yes, every time I hear the word "compression", I immediately think of pixelization and other horrors! Now see, this would seem to be one of those PQ factors I'm interested in - what compression scheme (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 or any others) do each of the DVR's use.

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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


Again, they record what is transmitted as it is transmitted. No better, no worse.
Thanks! - 2nd verifications are always good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


You might want to take a look at the Magnavox/Funai DVD/DVR in the DVR recorders sub forum. Being only a DVD recorder, it is only SD which is why it wasn't included here.
Absolutely!!!, in fact, it was the Mag. 537 that first peaked my interest in DVRs. I almost pulled the trigger to buy it last week, but since I've never been one to only consider my immediate needs, ignoring any future ones, I decided to check out the HD DVRs too. Also, I really didn't want a built-in or stand-alone DVD recorder because I'd prefer that my I-Mac make my DVDs, just because I think it would do a better job with PQ. However, I am still considering this one.


O.k., now back to my original post regarding "PQ factors". BTW, all who have posted gave some very helpful info., including 'wajo' who PM'ed me. Sorry for the long posts, but you know how newbies are - they're full of questions and impatient for the answers. Thanks for putting up with us!

When I asked for PQ factors / specs, I knew I couldn't control or change the quality of the broadcast signals I'm receiving, so I eliminated any interest in that PQ from the start. What I failed to specify was that I was interested in the PQ factors that each DVR may (or) may not allow the user to control or set.

(1) For example, I know that I've read about, not only on this forum, but even at the manufacturers websites, the "bit rate" at which a recording is made. Therefore, I'd like to know the maximum bit rate (selectable or not) that each DVR is capable of recording at.

(2) Also, I've heard stated, the maximum number of hours of video that can be recorded on the HDD in the highest PQ mode. I would like to know this fact for each of the DVRs. If, at maximum PQ mode, one DVR with a 500GB HDD can record 100 hrs. of video (and) another 500GB DVR can record 150 hrs., I'll know that the 100-hr. DVR will produce the better PQ.

(3) And, repeating from above, which "compression scheme" do each of the DVRs use.

I guess the above factors would apply only to DVRs that contained an internal or external HDD because in a PC-driven DVR, these factors would be determined by your computer, right ???

Could the above 3 PQ factors be added to the spreadsheet ? rolleyes.gif

Thanks again,
Bill
post #157 of 472
Quote:
Being new at this, I forgot to include some other concerns and needs. Whatever DVR I buy, IF it has an HDD, it will be mandatory that I can transfer the recorded programs from the HDD to my I-Mac, without losing PQ, even if I have do this in real-time.
I know some DVRs, like DTV Pal, will have their recordings encrypted. frown.gif Hence, why people make their own DVRs with computers that don't have these restrictions.
post #158 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

(1) For example, I know that I've read about, not only on this forum, but even at the manufacturers websites, the "bit rate" at which a recording is made. Therefore, I'd like to know the maximum bit rate (selectable or not) that each DVR is capable of recording at.

(2) Also, I've heard stated, the maximum number of hours of video that can be recorded on the HDD in the highest PQ mode. I would like to know this fact for each of the DVRs. If, at maximum PQ mode, one DVR with a 500GB HDD can record 100 hrs. of video (and) another 500GB DVR can record 150 hrs., I'll know that the 100-hr. DVR will produce the better PQ.

(3) And, repeating from above, which "compression scheme" do each of the DVRs use.

I guess the above factors would apply only to DVRs that contained an internal or external HDD because in a PC-driven DVR, these factors would be determined by your computer, right ???
All of this may apply to an SD DVD recorder which encodes everything it inputs, but is irrelevant for a DVR. You are missing the key point made above -- the transport stream is captured directly without any modification by the DVR. Bitrate is what ever the channel is broadcasting at, you have no control. The codec is MPEG-2. The number of hours that fits on a HDD depends on the bitrate of the channels you are capturing, but generally a 500 GB drive will hold 60-70 hr of HD/5.1.

Don't get confused trying to mesh the information you are getting about DVR's with DVD recorders -- they are very different devices made for different purposes.
post #159 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Don't forget cable companies still might use the 4:3 feed for their SD channels.
On TWC in my market, all the OTA locals have SD simulcasts.
Quote:
I think the primary reason for cable co's to broadcast SD versions of their native HD feeds is so they can charge you extra for HD.
Absolutely not. Again, it's for convenience for owners of older TV's, I hate to use the term 'public service', but that kinda describes the jist of it.
I got the same story from two different station engineers regarding this years ago.
post #160 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Whatever DVR I buy, IF it has an HDD, it will be mandatory that I can transfer the recorded programs from the HDD to my I-Mac, without losing PQ, even if I have do this in real-time.
I have no real experience with other O/S's other than M$ so I can't comment on that.
Quote:
it was the Mag. 537 that first peaked my interest in DVRs. I almost pulled the trigger to buy it last week, but since I've never been one to only consider my immediate needs, ignoring any future ones, I decided to check out the HD DVRs too.
That has it's place, but the SD limitation really places it at the back of the pack. There are a lot of quirks with it like all of these HD DVR's. The tuner setup is one of the worst if you are using it on analog CATV.
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I was interested in the PQ factors that each DVR may (or) may not allow the user to control or set.
None do.
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I'd like to know the maximum bit rate (selectable or not) that each DVR is capable of recording at.
The ATSC specs set that a 19.4 Mb/s;
Quote:
Terrestrial (local) broadcasters use 8VSB modulation that can transfer at a maximum rate of 19.39 Mbit/s
But don't expect to see anything close to that.
post #161 of 472
Thread Starter 
post #162 of 472
As Kelson said, the answer to most of your questions is that the quality is out of your control. You're at the mercy of the station engineers for whatever channel you're trying to record. The DVR just captures what the station is sending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

Being new at this, I forgot to include some other concerns and needs. Whatever DVR I buy, IF it has an HDD, it will be mandatory that I can transfer the recorded programs from the HDD to my I-Mac, without losing PQ, even if I have do this in real-time.

You'll want to get either PHD-VRX, TViX 6620, or TiVo, then. The DTVPal, CM-7000 Pal, and CM-7400 have encrypted HDDs that will not allow you to transfer your recordings; they are only good for throw-away TV recording. The PHD-VRX records to a USB HDD, which you can connect to your computer to save the recordings. The TViX records to an internal HDD and will let you copy recordings to an external USB HDD or over your home network (Ethernet or WiFi). TiVo also lets you copy recordings of OTA programs over your home network. It can take a while, since the recordings are large, but you get an exact copy of what the DVR recorded, which is an exact copy of what the station transmitted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

Ah, yes, every time I hear the word "compression", I immediately think of pixelization and other horrors! Now see, this would seem to be one of those PQ factors I'm interested in - what compression scheme (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 or any others) do each of the DVR's use.

The DVR doesn't get to choose. It records what the station sends, which is MPEG-2 video with Dolby Digital ("AC3") audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

Also, I really didn't want a built-in or stand-alone DVD recorder because I'd prefer that my I-Mac make my DVDs, just because I think it would do a better job with PQ.

The one benefit of stations using the old MPEG-2 format is that it's also the same format used by DVD-Video discs, so if you're recording a 480i channel, you can actually just cut out the commercials, put the program into a standard VOB container, burn it to DVD, and have any normal DVD player play back the exact same video/audio that got broadcast. If you're recording a 720p or 1080i channel, though, you can't do that, as the DVD-Video format does not support HD. You can still burn HD files to a DVD, but only a Blu-ray player or PC will be able to play the discs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

For example, I know that I've read about, not only on this forum, but even at the manufacturers websites, the "bit rate" at which a recording is made. Therefore, I'd like to know the maximum bit rate (selectable or not) that each DVR is capable of recording at.

Again, the DVR can't choose. It depends on the channel you're recording and how that network has its stream configured. Networks that have no sub-channels (mainly CBS and CW in some markets) dedicate all their bandwidth to a single 1080i program, which is ~19 Mbps and requires ~8 GB / hour of recording. A network that has a 1080i channel with one or two 480i sub-channels will have to use less bandwidth for its main HD feed, so recordings of that channel will only require ~6 GB / hour. Networks that broadcast 720p will need more like 4 GB / hour, and 480i sub-channels will only need ~2 GB / hour. Again, these numbers are only a generic guideline based on the stations in my area; your stations may do things differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

Also, I've heard stated, the maximum number of hours of video that can be recorded on the HDD in the highest PQ mode. I would like to know this fact for each of the DVRs. If, at maximum PQ mode, one DVR with a 500GB HDD can record 100 hrs. of video (and) another 500GB DVR can record 150 hrs., I'll know that the 100-hr. DVR will produce the better PQ.

How many hours of recording space you have depends on which channels you are recording. See the above numbers for estimates.
post #163 of 472
biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif.....Sometimes I've just got to laugh at myself !
Due to my limited knowledge, at times during my first 2 posts, I felt like I was struggling to play a game of charades, but with my hands tied behind my back. And, I'm certainly no Marcel Marceau !
Well, with this comment, Kelson wins the prize for guessing my "pantomime" :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

All of this [my stated "PQ factors"] may apply to an SD DVD recorder which encodes everything it inputs, but is irrelevant for a DVR. Don't get confused trying to mesh the information you are getting about DVR's with DVD recorders -- they are very different devices made for different purposes.

Yep, you got it. I was erroneously referring to a DVD recorder. Most of my interest and studying of "DVRs" over the past week or so, was done in that huge Magnavox thread. Even though you could call the Mags. a combo DVR / DVD recorder, their restrictions seem to make it mainly a DVD recorder and the info I was reading applied to this feature of the machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

.....[the Mag. 537] has it's place, but [.....] the tuner setup is one of the worst if you are using it on analog CATV.
"Worst" referring to possibly the tuner's PQ (or) other factors not related to PQ ?
I'll definitely be recording from a cable company - one that doesn't require a set top box (STB) - but maybe only a few of the programs will be analog. All of the ones I want to keep and copy to DVD will be from a digital signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

You'll want to get either PHD-VRX, TViX 6620, or TiVo, then. The DTVPal, CM-7000 Pal, and CM-7400 have encrypted HDDs that will not allow you to transfer your recordings; they are only good for throw-away TV recording. The PHD-VRX records to a USB HDD, which you can connect to your computer to save the recordings. The TViX records to an internal HDD and will let you copy recordings to an external USB HDD or over your home network (Ethernet or WiFi). TiVo also lets you copy recordings of OTA programs over your home network. It can take a while, since the recordings are large, but you get an exact copy of what the DVR recorded, which is an exact copy of what the station transmitted.

Excellent! - this is also what I needed to know. But, just to clarify. With the TViX, I can just hook an ethernet cable OUT from the TViX to IN on my Mac and transfer all of the T.V. programs I recorded on the TViX's HDD, to my Mac, right ? The only experience I've had so far with an ethernet cable is to get my broadband internet connection from my cable company's modem to my I-Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

The one benefit of stations using the old MPEG-2 format is that it's also the same format used by DVD-Video discs, so if you're recording a 480i channel, you can actually just cut out the commercials, put the program into a standard VOB container, burn it to DVD, and have any normal DVD player play back the exact same video/audio that got broadcast. If you're recording a 720p or 1080i channel, though, you can't do that, as the DVD-Video format does not support HD. You can still burn HD files to a DVD, but only a Blu-ray player or PC will be able to play the discs.

.....Networks that have no sub-channels (mainly CBS and CW in some markets) dedicate all their bandwidth to a single 1080i program, which is ~19 Mbps and requires ~8 GB / hour of recording. A network that has a 1080i channel with one or two 480i sub-channels will have to use less bandwidth for its main HD feed, so recordings of that channel will only require ~6 GB / hour. Networks that broadcast 720p will need more like 4 GB / hour, and 480i sub-channels will only need ~2 GB / hour. Again, these numbers are only a generic guideline based on the stations in my area; your stations may do things differently.
How many hours of recording space you have depends on which channels you are recording. See the above numbers for estimates.

All GOOD info., thanks!

Many thanks to all,
Bill
Edited by seasearyder - 4/19/13 at 4:56am
post #164 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
"Worst" referring to possibly the tuner's PQ (or) other factors not related to PQ ?
I'm referring to the fact it is a outdated "hybrid" tuner with separate tuners for digital and analog. You have to keep switching back and forth for both. Really archaic.
If you only are interested in ATSC (or QAM), then it is of no issue.

BUT, I have found when playing back ATSC recordings on LCD TV, blacks are clipped severely. Unwatchable as far as I'm concerned. That was the first thing I noticed. Any other external material, another HD DVR or even a DVD player shows no, or little issue. I tried tweaking, but it did no good. Black clipping (or crush if you prefer) was horrible. Period.
Quote:
I can just hook an ethernet cable OUT from the TViX to IN on my Mac and transfer all of the T.V. programs I recorded on the TViX's HDD, to my Mac, right ?
You will have to ask that in the TViX 6620 thread. wink.gif
post #165 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif.....Sometimes I've just got to laugh at myself !
Due to my limited knowledge, at times during my first 2 posts, I felt like I was struggling to play a game of charades, but with my hands tied behind my back. And, I'm certainly no Marcel Marceau !
Well, with this comment, Kelson wins the prize for guessing my "pantomime" :
Yep, you got it. I was erroneously referring to a DVD recorder. Most of my interest and studying of "DVRs" over the past week or so, was done in that huge Magnavox thread. Even though you could call the Mags. a combo DVR / DVD recorder, their restrictions seem to make it mainly a DVD recorder and the info I was reading applied to this feature of the machine.
"Worst" referring to possibly the tuner's PQ (or) other factors not related to PQ ?
I'll definitely be recording from a cable company - one that doesn't require a set top box (STB) - but maybe only a few of the programs will be analog. All of the ones I want to keep and copy to DVD will be from a digital signal.
Excellent! - this is also what I needed to know. But, just to clarify. With the TViX, I can just hook an ethernet cable OUT from the TViX to IN on my Mac and transfer all of the T.V. programs I recorded on the TViX's HDD, to my Mac, right ? The only experience I've had so far with an ethernet cable is to get my broadband internet connection from my cable company's modem to my I-Mac.
All GOOD info., thanks!

Many thanks to all,
Bill

I think Aleron Ives has the best summary of the issues for PQ. My feedback indicates the difference is very small between all digital content. I have a TiVo with HD service, an M6620N, BV-980H, Mag 515H and Sony DHG. I get 24 analog, 140 clear QAM channels, and 400 "HD" channels with the TiVo and a cable card. The TiVo can save shows on a PC and there is a program, kmttg, that can show the bit rate of any show saved on the PC. I seldom watch and never record vsb/analog shows. No need, since I get everything in digital.

 

Even though my AVR thinks all the content from the TiVo is 1080i, the actual show bit rate varies depending on content. Normally a show on CBS/NBC prime time indicates 18-19Mbs. Fox is normally 14-15Mbs. Basic cable HD, like SyFy, indicates about 12Mbs. Prime time ABC usually runs about 10-11Mbs. I believe QAM uses less error correction so it can compress more into a 6MHz channel. 8VSB uses more error correction, looks better and has fewer stations with sub-channels (now). How much depends on the station and how much depends on the cable company is unknown.

 

If we need to compare PQ, the tool is important as is the content. A rebroadcast of Gunsmoke on a 1080i channel is not going to be the best 1080i/DD5.1 baseline. A small flatpanel or even CRT always looks better than a large screen. Anybody watch the broadcast "Concert for Sandy" a few months ago? It was on NBC or CBS but only 8Mbs and DD2.0.

 

More stuff to think about.

post #166 of 472
While I agree content from a HD DVR outputted in it's native format will look the same no matter what HD DVR you use, there will be some differences in other cases. Namely if you use the fixed output option. That is displaying a 720p broadcast at 1080i or a 1080i broadcast at 720p. In this case the quality of the scaler comes into play, which can vary considerably between DVRs.
While I like my little iView DVR it lacks the native output option so I use 1080i fixed. 1080i recordings look the same as broadcast but 720p or even 480i broadcasts are not as good upconverted to 1080i, the little iView just doesn't have that great of a scaler. My Tivo HD is only marginally better but on it I use the native option so again whatever is broadcast is what I get to my TV.
Another difference in picture quality between the various HD DVRs is when you watch them from their SD outputs. Again my iView lacks the quality my Tivo does but truthfully that may have more to do with the fact that with my Tivo I use it's S-video output and the iView only has composite for it's SD output.

seasearyder, don't even think of a SD DVDR, trust me, you won't be happy with it's SD picture quality. Oh and lastly, if you just plan on importing your material to your laptop then the native or SD outputs won't be of concern, they only come into play if recording from it's outputs, not directly reading from it's HDD, that will be a mirror of the broadcast smile.gif
post #167 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

Excellent! - this is also what I needed to know. But, just to clarify. With the TViX, I can just hook an ethernet cable OUT from the TViX to IN on my Mac and transfer all of the T.V. programs I recorded on the TViX's HDD, to my Mac, right ? The only experience I've had so far with an ethernet cable is to get my broadband internet connection from my cable company's modem to my I-Mac.

Technically, you'd use a crossover cable to do that. Using a regular Ethernet cable would assume that you have a router or hub between your two devices, although some PCs these days don't require crossover cables to directly connect to another machine. In any event, the answer to your question is yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

You will have to ask that in the TViX 6620 thread. wink.gif

I'm still here, so no he doesn't. tongue.gif
post #168 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Technically, you'd use a crossover cable to do that. Using a regular Ethernet cable would assume that you have a router or hub between your two devices, although some PCs these days don't require crossover cables to directly connect to another machine. In any event, the answer to your question is yes.
I'm still here, so no he doesn't. tongue.gif

I haven't needed a cross-over cable since the 20th century. The 100BT cards I used in the late 90's and the 1000BT cards I first got in 2001 would auto negotiate the connection so it would work whether the cable was crossover or straight through.
post #169 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by seasearyder View Post

:
Excellent! - this is also what I needed to know. But, just to clarify. With the TViX, I can just hook an ethernet cable OUT from the TViX to IN on my Mac and transfer all of the T.V. programs I recorded on the TViX's HDD, to my Mac, right ? The only experience I've had so far with an ethernet cable is to get my broadband internet connection from my cable company's modem to my I-Mac.
It's not as simple as that. Yes, you can direct-connect a cable but they won't talk to each other unless you manually configure the network parameters for each device -- this is what your router does with DHCP protocol. You never see it because today's software is smart enough to keep it hidden from the user.

You will have to assign each device an IP address and a subnet mask and then whatever other network parameters a mac expects, i.e. Windows wants workgroup names to be the same. If you have no clue what I'm talking about, then forget the direct connect and stick with a router intermediary.
post #170 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Quote:
(Funaie DVD recorders employ an) outdated "hybrid" tuner with separate tuners for digital and analog. You have to keep switching back and forth for both. Really archaic.
If you only are interested in ATSC (or QAM), then it is of no issue.

...when playing back ATSC recordings on LCD TV, blacks are clipped severely. Unwatchable as far as I'm concerned. That was the first thing I noticed. Any other external material, another HD DVR or even a DVD player shows no, or little issue. I tried tweaking, but it did no good. Black clipping (or crush if you prefer) was horrible.....

Funai's tuners are more clunky than most but, as you state, when used only with digital sources are adequate. For analog sourced standard-def recording Philips' HDRW 720 (Funai's 'grandthather'), is equally adequate. Both machines employ a revolving six hour buffer and can be considered standard-def DVRs. Both work fine 90% of the time but succeed in tripping over themselves (in different ways) that last 10%.

I once owned a factory refurbed first version of Funai's H2160 that consistently exhibited strange washed-out images from all sources. Perhaps the cause was severe black level clipping. Fortunately I had bought an extended warranty and a week before the warranty expired got an RMA and subsequent refund!
post #171 of 472
THANKS! all, for the latest round of very helpful info., however, I'm getting into some very deep soup here (for me). What I should probably do now is take a more thorough look at my Mac's capability for ripping data / recording DVDs by taking advantage of some (already paid for) Apple training.....AND, visit the TViX 6620 thread. Maybe I'l luck out and some Mac user will have a step-by-step procedure for exactly what I'm wanting to do.

The Apple training may also be key for ME because, supposedly, Macs are super user friendly when it comes to manipulating / editing video and audio. Some of the things it sounds like I need to do, might be automatically done by my Mac. I certainly won't be able to purchase my DVR this week, but that's o.k. - making the right decision is more important.

I'll keep monitoring THIS thread also for any late developments.

Thanks again! - I'm sure I'll be living at AVS Forums at least until I can get this done - maybe longer.
post #172 of 472
Thread Starter 
Post 4 updated with additional facts on TiVo.
Edited by videobruce - 5/20/13 at 6:16am
post #173 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Post 3 updated with additional facts on TiVo.

Post 4.

post #174 of 472
Thread Starter 
Thanks Joe. Corrected. redface.gif
post #175 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Thanks Joe. Corrected. redface.gif

No sweat. I have the small Premiere 320GB series 4. I have never detected any HDD noise. Maybe I need my hearing checked.

 

I have noticed that three units (two here) with non-PSIP guides have drives that run 24/7. I doubt that's accidental. I know when the DHG and TiVo were/are going to perform updates. I don't know if the non-free guide on the CM7400 or Amulet 458 have such information.

post #176 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I have the small Premiere 320GB series 4. I have never detected any HDD noise. Maybe I need my hearing checked.
You really shouldn't hear anything. You have to put your ear up against the deck to hear the drive working (assuming it is at the time).

The issue is the constant HDD activity for no apparent reason. Looking at the whole setup; temporary storage for selected recordings, 60 minute buffering, reserving space for future recordings (depending on how you have those season passes setup)
I had a very interesting, long series of PM's with a member of that other forum regrading that forum itself and TiVo in general. This member had models starting with Model One up to the present and described the downturn of their product line. Basic failures all around, some got fixed, others not and new issues appeared.

The SDV issue with the four's and reports of bad caps, coup[led with the well known poor performance of their OTA tuners are all a step backwards.
post #177 of 472
I haven't experienced it yet myself, but I've heard reports of bad caps with the DTVPal/CM-7000Pal DVRs as well. Seems it was a common issue with many devices manufactured around 2008.

Not sure what the TiVo could be doing with the HDD when in standby and not recording. For comparison the Pal (the one I'm most familiar with) keeps the drive spinning all the time, but doesn't access it in standby if it's not recording. Perhaps the Tivo is indexing the guide for searches (WMC does this), or perhaps it constantly defragments the drive when nothing else is happening. I'm just guessing, though.

There "shouldn't be" an issue with fragmentation on the TiVo, at least until the drive fills up completely and old "deleted" recordings start to get deleted for real. Up to that point it "should" just allocate HDD space sequentially, so the only fragmented files would be from recording multiple shows at once. But of course, "shouldn't be" and "isn't" aren't the same thing!
post #178 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

.... Not sure what the TiVo could be doing with the HDD when in standby and not recording . . .

I never put my TiVo's in "Standby", which is a distinct setting selected by menu options. My TiVo's are always recording. When I turn on my TV, I can "back-up" the TiVo if I choose to and watch the past half-hour (buffer space) of whatever channels it happened to be tuned to. I often do this if I miss the first part of the local news broadcast. I don't know what happens if the unit had been in "Standby". There is much misinformation relating to TiVo that is being disseminated by non-owner "TiVo Experts".
post #179 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

There is much misinformation relating to TiVo that is being disseminated by non-owner "TiVo Experts".
+1
post #180 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
reports of bad caps with the DTVPal/CM-7000Pal DVRs as well. Seems it was a common issue with many devices manufactured around 2008.
The first 'bad caps' issue started in 2002 with a stolen electrolytic formula that wound up in Taiwan;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Quote:
Perhaps the Tivo is indexing the guide for searches (WMC does this), or perhaps it constantly defragments the drive when nothing else is happening.
I'm leaning towards indexing and maybe defraging.
Quote:
There "shouldn't be" an issue with fragmentation on the TiVo, at least until the drive fills up completely and old "deleted" recordings start to get deleted for real. Up to that point it "should" just allocate HDD space sequentially, so the only fragmented files would be from recording multiple shows at once.
I'm glad you used the term "should".
Quote:
I never put my TiVo's in "Standby", which is a distinct setting selected by menu options.
"Standby" turns off a LED and the output circuity just as the Sony did. Not my idea of standby, especially in this age.
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There is much misinformation relating to TiVo that is being disseminated by non-owner "TiVo Experts".
Especially in that other forum. The same ones that are under the illusion that it is the holy grail.
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