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LFM-1 Compact - Fuses Blowing..Worth repairing?

post #1 of 43
2/25/13 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
I bought a Outlaw sub on craigslist a year or so ago.

Fuse blew a little while ago. I replaced it and that one instantly blew too. So I looked up on the forum and found this to be a somewhat common issue. I called outlaw and they said the repair is $75 plus another $50 to ship it back and forth.

So my question is - is it worth $125 to get this back up and running or am I better off looking for another sub with maybe a $200 budget?

Also, anyone who has had this issue...once repaired, was this fixed for the long haul or did it occur again?

Thanks a ton!!
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post #2 of 43
2/25/13 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post

Fuse blew a little while ago. I replaced it and that one instantly blew too. So I looked up on the forum and found this to be a somewhat common issue. I called outlaw and they said the repair is $75 plus another $50 to ship it back and forth.

In truth, based on your above, it reads as if Outlaw created a defective product, knows it and in my opinion, is charging the general public to fix their defective product. Just saying. Someone from Outlaw is welcome to straighten me up on this issue of this being a defective product or not as I'm basing my above on your comments.

Can you find out what the problem is and fix it yourself? Give Outlaw a call and ask them what's wrong with their sub that requires this fix and can you fix it yourself?

A while back, we had a Samsung TV that had random shutoff issues. I called around and shops wanted $85.00 to $125.00 to fix the problem. I surfed the web and Samsung had an available BIOS update that fixed the problem. The point, shops were thieving the general public for a publicly available, downloadable fix. Instead of informing me of the facts, they confidently suggested I bring it on down and they'd get me going again. How thoughtful of them. Yes, they have a fiduciary obligation to tell me of the facts as opposed to "RIPPING" me off in this fashion and I hope they all have been forced out of business due to this treatment of unsuspecting customers. If you missed it, I'm still angry over this incident.

(I ran a business for thirty years and openly told customers when they didn't need services; integrity)

Samsung sent us a thumb drive at no charge, I plugged the thumb drive into the USB port and voila, fixed. No charge.

In my opinion, Outlaw is responsible for this fix and that includes shipping both ways as in my opinion, they sold a defective product. If it were a car, I'm sure something like this complaint would trigger a recall. There's no money to be had but I bet a class action suit on this matter would remind them of their responsibility. I'm not trying to kick over a fight as I'm just saying.

With that in mind, you have to decide how much you paid for the subwoofer, how much return did you get on your one year of use, how much will the fix will cost you and if for what you're getting, are you spending good money or throwing good money after bad.

As an example, from Newegg, a Klipsch, RW-12d, on sale, delivered, can be had for $299.99 and from Amazon, a delivered BIC, F12, can be had for $229.85.

Can you pull and replace the plate Amp with a Parts-Express replacement Amp?

Again, just saying and giving one person's opinion on the question you ask.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/25/13 at 7:27am
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post #3 of 43
2/25/13 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply.

Originally I paid $175 for it (used). I didn't get a ton of use out of it. I'm thinking that $125 for the repair brings me up to 300 bucks, which is probably around what a new one could be had for..

I'm not sure how widespread the issue is...but i googled something like lfm-1 compact fuse blew, and found several topics..even other outlaw subs seem effected by the same issue. I'm not really sure what their sales volume vs number of issues is..or even if other brands experience the same thing. I'm sort of a novice in audio.

I asked on the phone if I can order parts and do it myself, and was told it is proprietary. I think they said it involved the power supply in some way. If someone does know what the exact issue is, and where parts can be acquired, I would definitely do it myself and save myself $75.
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post #4 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post

I asked on the phone if I can order parts and do it myself, and was told it is proprietary. I think they said it involved the power supply in some way.

Say what?! A known defective fix is proprietary information? eek.gif

LOL biggrin.gif

Now that's funny. biggrin.gif

I always say one should go with what ever makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside. That kind of customer service, does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Can you R-n-R the plate Amp with one purchased at Parts-Express?

Being that it's a defective subwoofer and based on what their customer service told you about keeping the facts a secret, I'd run away from their idea of customer service as fast as I could. If you have a budget of $200.00, for a bit more, a delivered, brand new, 12", BIC, F12, with full warranty, sounds like a much better way to go and a more prudent use of your money..
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post #5 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:27am
Lol a class action law suit for a sub that is discontinued, out of warranty and bought used... yeah that's a good idea. OP if it was a Plus or an EX then I would say its worth it, but the compact only goes down to 25hz and is a '10in sub. If you can spring for it get the Klipsch rw-12d.
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post #6 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Lol a class action law suit for a sub that is discontinued, out of warranty and bought used... yeah that's a good idea.

Stop. I said as much in my comment when I posted: "There's no money to be had but I bet a class action suit on this matter would remind them of their responsibility."

The intent of my above was clear, there's no money to be had but in my opinion, sometimes company management needs to be reminded of their responsibilities towards defective products, discontinued or not and it's a shame that one would need to resort to the legal system over a defect of this kind.

If someone wants to overlook this issue, I wholeheartedly support their decision to do so.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/25/13 at 8:42am
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post #7 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post


I asked on the phone if I can order parts and do it myself, and was told it is proprietary.
They were probably being polite. In truth, they have no way of knowing what the problem is without looking at it. Besides, if you could fix it yourself you'd be able to diagnose it yourself. The $75 is a flat rate on their part. Depending on what's bad it may cost them half that to fix it, it may cost them twice that. They just quote a flat fee to simplify the process.
For $125 you can get a new amp from any number of sources. That might be the better option.
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post #8 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:51am
I would consider fixing it or perhaps investing in a replacement amp from part express if you choose not to go through Outlaw. If I remember correctly, the LFM-1 compact was a pretty good 10" sub similar to the HSU STF-2 or VTF-1. If that's the case the BIC F12 will be a downgrade in both deep bass extension and overall SQ with music. The Klipsch Rw12-D would be a better choice if you don't want to bother fixing it.
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post #9 of 43
2/25/13 at 9:11am
Thread Starter 
It wasn't proprietary info...it was a proprietary part, from what they said -- so they have a monopoly on fixing the issue. If anyone thinks differently, I'm open to ideas. Maybe I could buy someone elses broken outlaw sub and swap out parts..anyone know if the compact uses the same amp as some larger models?

The outlaw sub came highly recommended on this forum when I first made the purchase. I think a 12" may be overkill for me...i'm only using satellite speakers wink.gif
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post #10 of 43
2/25/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post

It wasn't proprietary info...it was a proprietary part, from what they said -- so they have a monopoly on fixing the issue.

This is what you posted that I responded to: "I asked on the phone if I can order parts and do it myself, and was told it is proprietary."

If they can install the part, they can sell the part and anyway someone wants to look at the issue, in the end, the consumer still ends up with the part which, unless licensed, becomes the personal property of the consumer. Just saying and if you're comfortable with this issue, then you're good as it's your time, your money and your subwoofer.

Either which way you choose to go, I wish you the best in what ever you choose to do.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/25/13 at 9:24am
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post #11 of 43
2/25/13 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post

It wasn't proprietary info...it was a proprietary part, from what they said -- so they have a monopoly on fixing the issue.
There are no proprietary parts. The likelihood that they manufacture the amp themselves is slight, the possibility that they manufacture any parts, zilch. There's no way they could know what the fault was from a phone conversation, unless the guy at the other end of the call was a clairvoyant. And it still comes down to if you can't diagnose it, you can't fix it. It's not like changing a light bulb.
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post #12 of 43
2/25/13 at 11:15am
Thread Starter 
I have 2 friends who know their way around circuit boards..maybe I'll have them look at it before I ship it out. Is parts express the best place to go for sub parts?
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post #13 of 43
2/25/13 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Stop. I said as much in my comment when I posted: "There's no money to be had but I bet a class action suit on this matter would remind them of their responsibility."

The intent of my above was clear, there's no money to be had but in my opinion, sometimes company management needs to be reminded of their responsibilities towards defective products, discontinued or not and it's a shame that one would need to resort to the legal system over a defect of this kind.

If someone wants to overlook this issue, I wholeheartedly support their decision to do so.

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Who says its defective? It worked as intended and now it isn't. Parts go bad, but by your logic if the transmission in your car goes out after the warranty is up its defective and the manufacturer should replace it because its their responsibility....
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post #14 of 43
2/25/13 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Who says its defective? It worked as intended and now it isn't. Parts go bad, but by your logic if the transmission in your car goes out after the warranty is up its defective and the manufacturer should replace it because its their responsibility....

That does not really go far enough, seeing as how the sub was acquired second-hand. Caveat emptor and all that.
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post #15 of 43
2/25/13 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

That does not really go far enough, seeing as how the sub was acquired second-hand. Caveat emptor and all that.
OP said he bought it a year ago and the problem just recently happened. Its not the buyer, seller or Outlaws fault. Parts don't last forever and **** happens. The questions now are what are the best decisions to make from here.
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post #16 of 43
2/25/13 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They were probably being polite. In truth, they have no way of knowing what the problem is without looking at it. Besides, if you could fix it yourself you'd be able to diagnose it yourself. The $75 is a flat rate on their part. Depending on what's bad it may cost them half that to fix it, it may cost them twice that. They just quote a flat fee to simplify the process.
For $125 you can get a new amp from any number of sources. That might be the better option.

I agree.

If the fuse is continually breaking, you probably have a short somewhere in the amp. It's easier to replace the amp then to fix it, so they'll replace the amp. They know how much labor and cost is involved.

I would probably pay the $125 since that sub with a new amp is probably worth more than $125. I would make sure the plan is to replace the amp if replacing the amp resolves the problem.
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post #17 of 43
2/25/13 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

OP said he bought it a year ago and the problem just recently happened. Its not the buyer, seller or Outlaws fault. Parts don't last forever and **** happens. The questions now are what are the best decisions to make from here.

I wasn't speaking of fault at all. Merely pointing out that as flamingoezz isn't even Outlaw's direct customer and that the suggestion that they fix something like this on their dime is quite a stretch indeed.
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post #18 of 43
2/25/13 at 1:23pm
Speaking in general, some don't know the difference between a business' responsibility for a defective design and a consumer's responsibility for normal wear and tear.

Responsibility for a defective design is enforceable during the existence of the product as opposed to repairs outside of the stated warranty period. If someone doesn't want to see this because they choose not to, that's on them as it's not incumbent for others to go along.

It's morally wrong to tell someone not to stand up for their consumer rights.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/25/13 at 1:31pm
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post #19 of 43
2/25/13 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Speaking in general, some don't know the difference between a business' responsibility for a defective design and a consumer's responsibility for normal wear and tear.

Responsibility for a defective design is enforceable during the existence of the product as opposed to repairs outside of the stated warranty period. If someone doesn't want to see this because they choose not to, that's on them as it's not incumbent for others to go along.

It's morally wrong to tell someone not to stand up for their consumer rights.

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I'm done, you just don't get it. Its not defective its broken and not the resposibilty of anyone except who's property it is to get repaired or move on. You can speak in general, but that has nothing to do with this thread so why even bring it up and tell someone to file a law suit and trash a company for nothing they did wrong. I hate when people think they are owed something for nothing, its a terrible problem in America today.
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post #20 of 43
2/25/13 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

I'm done, you just don't get it. Its not defective its broken and not the resposibilty of anyone except who's property it is to get repaired or move on. You can speak in general, but that has nothing to do with this thread so why even bring it up and tell someone to file a law suit and trash a company for nothing they did wrong. I hate when people think they are owed something for nothing, its a terrible problem in America today.

I posted in general as I didn't want to be accused of singling out any forum member's comments as my comments were directly tied to the OP's comments, making them on topic And I didn't tell anybody to file a lawsuit nor did I trash a company and it was the OP who commented that he thought it was a manufacture defect that I responded to when they posted:

"So I looked up on the forum and found this to be a somewhat common issue."

Yes, manufactures have an obligation to correct common issues and if they don't, they're manufacturing and distributing a product with a known defective design. And nowhere am I recommending anybody file a law suit and nowhere am I trashing a company. This is what I wrote:

"There's no money to be had but I bet a class action suit on this matter would remind them of their responsibility."

Yes, a company does have legal and moral obligations to owners of their products, irrespective of how many times their product has been resold and yes, sometimes management does need to be reminded that they do have an obligation to correct for known design (likely to cause failure) problems. And yes, people should be encouraged to follow-up on consumer based complaints, even if one doesn't think they should. And yes, we can be critical of manufactures of products discussed in this forum.

Please reread what I posted as you have totally misunderstood what you read because I did not post what you're suggesting that I posted.

And for the record, my comments are based on my having owned and operated a licensed, bonded and insured consumer based company for over thirty years. Yes, firsthand I know of what a company's legal obligations are to buyers and owners of their products and how liability is transferred upon change of ownership and how liability for defective workmanship, never ends. And yes, firsthand I understand the need to have flexibility in regard to warranty work and yes, many times I did extended warranty work that was outside the scope of stated and signed for warranty restrictions. Why? It's called customer service. As a retired business owner, based on decades of personal experience, my loyalty is to the customer, not the business.

Liability is tied to the product, not the buyer. Nobody is suggesting that anybody should encourage anybody to get anything for nothing.

Again, instead of getting mad at me, please, reread what I posted with my above comments kept in mind.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/25/13 at 3:26pm
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post #21 of 43
2/25/13 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I posted in general as I didn't want to be accused of singling out any forum member's comments as my comments were directly tied to the OP's comments, making them on topic And I didn't tell anybody to file a lawsuit nor did I trash a company and it was the OP who commented that he thought it was a manufacture defect that I responded to when they posted:

"So I looked up on the forum and found this to be a somewhat common issue."

Yes, manufactures have an obligation to correct common issues and if they don't, they're manufacturing and distributing a product with a known defective design. And nowhere am I recommending anybody file a law suit and nowhere am I trashing a company. This is what I wrote:

"There's no money to be had but I bet a class action suit on this matter would remind them of their responsibility."

Yes, a company does have legal and moral obligations to owners of their products, irrespective of how many times their product has been resold and yes, sometimes management does need to be reminded that they do have an obligation to correct for known design (likely to cause failure) problems. And yes, people should be encouraged to follow-up on consumer based complaints, even if one doesn't think they should. And yes, we can be critical of manufactures of products discussed in this forum.

Please reread what I posted as you have totally misunderstood what you read because I did not post what you're suggesting that I posted.

And for the record, my comments are based on my having owned and operated a licensed, bonded and insured consumer based company for over thirty years. Yes, firsthand I know of what a company's legal obligations are to buyers and owners of their products and how liability is transferred upon change of ownership and how liability for defective workmanship, never ends. And yes, firsthand I understand the need to have flexibility in regard to warranty work and yes, many times I did extended warranty work that was outside the scope of stated and signed for warranty restrictions. Why? It's called customer service. As a retired business owner, based on decades of personal experience, my loyalty is to the customer, not the business.

Liability is tied to the product, not the buyer. Nobody is suggesting that anybody should encourage anybody to get anything for nothing.

Again, instead of getting mad at me, please, reread what I posted with my above comments kept in mind.

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You need to just stop derailing threads. Why are you even bringing any of this talk of a lawsuit up? You have zero proof there is any design flaw. It could be the sub is 10 years old and the amp just went bad. It could be that the sub was not properly setup and configured and was being overdriven. If could be anything. The sub is used and older. It is probably worth about $100 working. If the sub is no longer under warranty why would any company be legally obligated to fix it? That is ridiculous. It is, a relatively, a cheap piece of used electronics. Things break. Should I sue Gateway because my 2001 desktop no longer boots up? Or Samsuing because my first MP3 player from 2001 no longer charges?

Jessh..
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post #22 of 43
2/25/13 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

You need to just stop derailing threads.

I responded to the OP. The only derailing going on are your intentionally posted, out of context comments. At this point, regarding this thread, I'll only respond to the OP.
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post #23 of 43
2/25/13 at 4:54pm
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

You need to just stop derailing threads. Why are you even bringing any of this talk of a lawsuit up?
Everyone has to have a hobby, derailing threads is his. rolleyes.gif
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post #24 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

It's morally wrong to tell someone not to stand up for their consumer rights.

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You have had a pretty rocky road since you decided to adopt this forum, and as much as you want to think you are being persecuted around here,
I want to tell you that you have been given an extremely wide berth considering the nonstop argumentative, flowery worded (it's a gain KNOB. KNOB.),
know it all, wife crying (WTF), posting style you exhibit. In the old days the tubeguys, jakesms, johnla et al. would have made you wish for the patient, knowledgeable
folks you've been dealing with here.

Where the line gets drawn however, is when you decide to morph into the moral compass of the forums. You don't get to tell anybody here whats moral or not concerning
sub-woofer amplifiers or anything else. It has nothing to do with this situation and everything to do the fact that you think you can tell the people here whats good and bad.
Whats next, the stone tablets you drug down the mountain?

I never report posts, (you do..) but if any should get reported, its yours.

A little unsolicited advice.. Ive been around here for a while. Most of the spectacular flameouts Ive seen all have one thing in common. And thats a 10 - 15 post a day average.
Unplug when it becomes real life, because it just isn't.

Have a nice day.
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post #25 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:29pm
Thread Starter 
Just to respond to some of the things said:

the sub is about 4 years old, which would put it outside warranty even if I was the original owner. I emailed outlaw to tell them my symptoms (last time I called) and ask if they replace the entire amp or just parts -- to which they replied in part:

"We normally repair these amplifier plates. Typical repair costs are $75.00, which includes parts and labor, plus round-trip shipping costs."

Anywho, back on topic. I paid $150 on the sub originally...is it worth another $75 - 125 investment to get her working again?
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post #26 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:31pm
Sorry Flamingoezz got a lil carried away there.
Anyway, If i was in you position I would go ahead with the repair. You may also want to see what it would cost for them to send you a new amp.
They are easy to install and the time frame would be quicker. If its the same or 25 bucks more it may be a good idea.
That's a decent little sub and you may be able to get your money back when you sell it. It seems like you paid a pretty good price for it to begin with.

Just remember it isn't worth anything broken. If you take a small loss selling it after you repair it, you may lose less overall by trashing it.
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post #27 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:33pm
I was typing as you posted.... for 75.00 , definitely.
Even if you decide to sell it, you will get more than 75 which could go towards something else.
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post #28 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Sorry Flamingoezz got a lil carried away there.
Anyway, If i was in you position I would go ahead with the repair. You may also want to see what it would cost for them to send you a new amp.
They are easy to install and the time frame would be quicker. If its the same or 25 bucks more it may be a good idea.
That's a decent little sub and you may be able to get your money back when you sell it. It seems like you paid a pretty good price for it to begin with.

Just remember it isn't worth anything broken. If you take a small loss selling it after you repair it, you may lose less overall by trashing it.

+1

I would also check into the price of a new amp. The comparable replacement 10" sub currently available for the Compact is probably the HSU STF-2, which runs $329 + shipping.

Note that amplifiers are typically the weak link in terms of longevity on a sub. HSU only warranties their sub amps for 2 years. However, sub drivers, unless they are abused, can generally last a long, long time.
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post #29 of 43
2/25/13 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Everyone has to have a hobby, derailing threads is his. rolleyes.gif

Maybe we could nickname him Super 8! biggrin.gif

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post #30 of 43
2/26/13 at 1:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoezz View Post

I paid $150 on the sub originally...is it worth another $75 - 125 investment to get her working again?

That's always a personal call as to if something is worth something or not. So far, it reads as if this subwoofer has cost you a boatload of time and effort and at a certain time and point, one has to cut their losses and move forward with a new choice in subwoofer. My opinion, it's time to buy better.

Have you looked into purchasing a replacement Amp at Parts-Express? And if you have, were you able to find a solution regarding amplifier replacement?

Have you opened the subwoofer box up to look at the inside of the amplifier and see if the circuits are fried?

What other alternatives have you considered?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/26/13 at 2:09am
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