New PC gaming rig vs PS4

Somehow you missed this thread, just a few lines down. Lots of discussion on pros/cons for new consoles vs. PCs.

Others with more/better knowledge can chime in here, but my $0.02

There are two* schools of thought:

• get a great bang-for-buck system, spend less now and upgrade as you go
• get a top of the line expensive system (you mentioned hexa-core i7 + GTX Titan) that will hopefully stay above the curve for a long time

I think the majority of active AVS posters in this PC section fall into the first camp. For a i5 + GTX 660 today, you are comfortably well under $500. You can even splurge and step up to 670 and get a nice performance increase without breaking the bank. This combo will run many released games at the highest level of graphics at 1080p @ 60fps, and the recent cutting edge games that will slow that system down (Crysis 3, Far Cry 3, etc.) can have graphics option dialed down to get back to 60fps and still look awesome.

On the other hand, if you have money to burn (not judging!), you start well over $1500 to have the top of the line CPU + GTX card, yet your experience with most games would be the same. I admit it would be nice not to have to worry about finding the graphical sweet spot and gain some minor (read: often not noticeable) visual fidelity in the few recent cutting edge games, and if money wasn't an issue we would all be there.

Of course if you want to run a big, high-res monitor(s) at crazy resolutions (far beyond 1080), then you probably need to go with the second plan.

So when do you make that decision? I would ask when do you want to use it? If you want to play Crysis 3 and the upcoming, well reviewed Tomb Raider on PC now, what are you waiting for? If money was no object, you would already have a bitchin' PC.

My advice (see my sig): build a modest, bang-for-buck PC and enjoy a "next-gen console" now. Learn to accept that occasionally you may need to dial down some settings to maintain high framerate, or settle for lower frames for higher visual fidelity, and you are still far above the current consoles. And could be on target for the new consoles at the end of the year. Even if you upgrade next year, the price on a Titan probably won't stay $1000 forever.

Good luck with your choice, and I would be interested to hear what other AVS PC gurus think about this.

*EDIT: there's actually a third option - wait for better PC hardware to come out. But this option is an endless loop, resulting in never getting anything.
Edited by DaverJ - 2/25/13 at 11:05am

At this point in the game it's like asking "how many gallons of water are in the mirage?" Your guess is as good as mine.

Listen at 13:35

First off...while i respect Mr. Carmack...take what he says as a grain of salt because he's stated many things in the past that never happened..especially about some of his cutting edge games that were suppose to blow our socks off and once the games came out..they were a bit on the "meh" side of things. He also stated that Rage on the PS3 would rival that of the PC version and look better than the xbox version because of the usage of Blu-Ray in the PS3 and a few other things like the Cell CPU,etc...well after Rage came out on xbox, ps3 and PC...the xbox version looked identical to the ps3, well pretty close and the PC version looked way superior to the ps3 version. Mr. Carmack has been as accurate as Michael Pachter quite honestly lol

Another thing he said is that the next generation of consoles would in no way have 8GB of ram..well whats shocking is that..not only does both the next xbox and ps4 sport 8gb of ram but the PS4 is using 8GB of GDDR5 and i think that alone should give you a good idea or a good assumption that KillZone 4 will run at 60fps at 1080p although that is not set in stone but that is what the dev's said they will achieve once they get the final dev boxes and the final product released to the consumer.

Keep in mind that always..ALWAYS these first year of titles on new consoles are never very optimized as they could be. I would say that we will begin to see what these new consoles are really capable of on their 2nd and 3rd year of games but looking at the footage of KillZone 4...i was pretty excited to see what i saw...was it jaw dropping visuals? I would say...close to it but not quite but again..these are launch games and quite frankly i was impressed. Anyone remember what the xbox 360 and ps3 launch games looked like? LOL Remember ..well lets just take xbox 360 as example since it was the lead platform this generation.... Perfect Dark was simply hideous and Project Gothem 3 while it looked pretty nice for a launch game... compare Perfect Dark to say COD games or Halo 4 and PG3 to say Forza 3 and 4 ...i mean comparing those games to each other is almost night and day imho.

I think people will be very surprised in what these next gen consoles will be able to do...i think Microsoft really needs to do something about that 8GB GDDR3 ram... Sony will have a rather nice advantage in their games simly because of the faster ram and more bandwidth 8GB of GDDR5 ram will have....it will MOST DEFINITELY HELP in keeping 1080p at 60fps because PS4's GPU will be based on AMD's 7800 Series cards but custom modified to tailor the PS4 console. a AMD 7800 Series equivalent type GPU in the PS4 will be massively powerful for the simple fact that it will be much more utilized to its full potential than a AMD 7800 PC graphics card is in a PC platform for many reasons. Cutting edge PC hardware is never fully utilized...sorta like our brain, our brain is only 10% used..just imagine if we humans were able to just be able to use another 10% of our brain for a total of us being able to use 20% of our brain..imagine that for a while..its mind boggling we only use 10% of our brain. Consoles and PC's somewhat work in the same way.... 512mb of ram in a console is like 2gb of ram in a PC. An AMD HD 5850 PC graphics card is like a AMD HD 7970 GPU in a console...you get my point but i'll explain further.

Remember we cant really sit here and compare the hardware in these upcoming consoles to PC's...we can to an extent ..for example we know in the PC world that 8GB of GDDR3 ram vs 8GB of GDDR5 ram is significant difference because of speed and bandwidth of the two kind of memory performance but back to my point..we cant really compare PC development to Console development...granted...these next gen console games are being developed on very powerful PC machines right now until final dev kits are sent out to console developers. ..current dev boxes for ps4 and xbox 720 are using like two Nvidia GTX 680's or two HD 7970's...i forget which brand but they are using..TWO of these ultra high end pc graphic cards and like 16gb of DDR3 ram in these dev boxes for these next gen consoles..why so much power? Because these consoles will be utilizing much more of its hardware than what PC's are able to do...at the end of it all...its going to be so called "tapping much closer to the hardware" than what PC developers can do when developing PC games.

A few things to always remember. Consoles are a closed box...meaning every console has the same hardware specs inside...developers there for can take much more advantage of the hardware inside. I mean all you gotta do is look at Halo 4 on xbox 360 and you gotta scratch your head on how the hell did they manage to produce those types of visuals on 8 year old hardware that sports 512mb of DDR3 memory or look how insanely beautiful games like Kill Zone 3 look on 7-8 year old hardware using an exotic hard to develop for Cell CPU and a not so friendly split memory configuration that is split with 256mb for the graphics and 256mb for the system but yet they still managed to produce visuals we see in Kill Zone 3, Uncharted 2 & 3 and this upcoming PS3 game called "The Last of Us" ... these games can almost rival Crysis 3 PC on "high" with no AA and maybe x8 AF settings..maybe i am being a little generous in saying that but that comparison is NOT that far off. So this just proves developers can really take much much more advantage of hardware in a closed box than PC developers can with a lot of overhead to deal with which includes the OS, background services running and other various programs running but the biggest killer of it all that hinders PC hardware from truly being fully utilized is the fact that PC developers have to deal with so many freaking various configurations that PC owners have...its gotta be a nightmare for PC developers compared to Console Developers because PC developers have to make sure their game will run on hundreds if not thousands of different PC configurations...then on top of it..they have all these background resources running at the same time that takes away from the overall performance that cutting edge PC hardware is able to produce.

Regardless of all that..i still truly believe if we had more PC developers besides just Crytek trying to fully tap the power of cutting edge PC hardware..we would have seen many PC exclusive games by now surpass what Crysis 3 has done visually. It is a shame to see that most of what us PC gamers have to play are games developed on 8 year old hardware ported over to our PC rigs that sport hardware that is many generations ahead of these current consoles...some times i just get so pissed off that we no longer have all these PC exclusive games that aim at taking advantage of current mid to high end pc hardware. I am not talking about these current PC exclusive developers that pump out these RPG's, Strategy games,etc that are only on the PC...no, i am talking about PC dev's like Crytek that truly strive to take advantage of current mid to high end pc hardware. The problem with Crytek...sure they got talent with producing bad ass visuals...but they are some-what lacking in producing engines that run like a dream on PC hardware ...maybe some of this you can blame them on these old consoles being in the way taking up a lot of their time that could of been spent focusing a bit more time optimizing their PC versions of Crysis..who knows but what ever the reasons may be...i do know for sure two of the reasons are what i just mentioned above..and i am sure here are more reasons behind his as well.

One thing we can look forward too as gamers though is that these new next gen systems will be out in less than a year..for a PC only gamer that means your hardware will finally begin to be pushed harder and taken advantage more and in return you'll be playing next gen console ports that will look stunning and beautiful on your rigs and those of us that enjoy both PC and console game..such as myself..i'll be able to enjoy the best of both worlds...next gen console gaming..especially the console exclusives that will not see the light of day on PC's and i'll also be able to enjoy PC games exclusive to the PC platform as well along with console to pc ports as well.

I suspect myself personally that i will not be playing many next gen console ports to the PC for some years to come because these new consoles will be producing games...the exclusive next gen console games i mean...that will look visually superior to anything on the PC in terms of visuals...That is not a fanboy statement..i am no fanboy..i am simply stating what history has proven the last few generations of consoles...when new consoles come out...they are usually producing games for the first 2-3 years that are a bit head visually of what we see on the PC..then about on that 3rd year..PC's start overtaking consoles in terms of graphics especially with the console ports to the PC's but next gen "exclusive console games will be setting the bar to a new level graphically.

I am not a fanoy of any system, brand,etc...i am only a fanoy in the fact that i love gaming, i am a fanboy of gaming and i will play ANY game on ANY PLATFORM..may it be the PC, the Next Xbox or PS4...if its a good game and it happens to be exclusive to one of the three platform...i'll be playing it, period. I am not one of these "Fake gamers' that claim to be hardcore gamers but yet only will play games on the PC or will only play their games on a console because they dislike the other platform...to me thats ridiculous and that is not what a true gamer is... a true gamer has no prejudice towards any platform what so ever..he or she will game on what ever platform is required to play that AAA game and make no mistake about it...if you are a hardcore gamer you will do what you gotta do to get at least one console and a decent gaming PC...because if you do not have at least one console and a gaming pc...you will automatically miss out on a nice list of exclusive AAA games...that is just my take on what a true gamer is all about.
Edited by Moegames - 2/25/13 at 1:35pm

It will take a year or two for console development to start hitting its stride with the new hardware. Also, the consoles will be expensive initially, with relatively small libraries, and a bunch of other kinks still to work out (network, hardware reliability, distribution methods, etc). We won't see what the new consoles can do for a while after release. So I'd go the other way around. Get a PC now. Wait a couple of years. Then buy a console. But that's me.

While the new console hardware may technically be able to outshine a decent PC at launch, the software won't catch up for a while. By the time it does, PC tech will have kept moving forward. In other words, don't use horsepower as your deciding factor. Go with other things that may be important to you: exclusive games, friends, online features, etc.

Did you guys even see what the PS4 has for hardware? It's nothing that special vs a PC. Thats not to say it won't have great looking games but don't expect 1080P at 60 fps, it's not going to happen. They already said they are shooting for 1080p @ 30 fps. The GPU has 18 compute units and is capable of 1.84 teraflops — i.e. somewhere between the Radeon 7850 and 7870. The CPU is nothing to talk about, the Jaguar is decent but thats about it.
It still won't touch a good PC. thats not to say I'm not getting one because I am and I think all PC gamers would agree, the more powerful consoles means only good things for us PC gamers.

After Rage Carmack has become the God who bleeds. I still have faith in him though.

For $600 (give or take, depending on sales) you could build a 3570K+7850 system that would take the PS4 to task today. At the end of the day, software exclusivity will determine where to spend your money. If you love games that will be exclusive to the PS4, then be prepared to buy a PS4. Likewise with the Xbox3. If everything you want is on Steam or Origin, then just build a PC. Or save up and buy both! *gasp*

honestly, I think the best option is to try to wait as long as you can.


Reason being, I don't think we will have a clear grasp of this whole transition until late 2014 or even 2015. All the current developers that are making their games for 360 and PS3 have to begin the transition over to PS4 and Xbox Infinity. It's going to take them awhile to get to grips with this. Then, once everything shakes out, you'll have a really good idea of what kind of hardware you'll need to run all the PS4 and Xbox Infinity ports at a higher level for the forseeable future. You'll know which CPU and GPU combo will provide the most bang for the buck, for what developers are doing. I know it sucks to think you have to wait another year or so, but that's just the way it is.

In the meanwhile, build a cheapo $500 gaming PC that can cover you for a year or so.
Edited by Anthony1 - 2/27/13 at 4:47pm

I have an awesome Blu-ray player. Why would I need a PS3... or 4?

You don't. That is ...unless you're interested in a worse BD player. Then get either the PS3 or 4.

Actually, before I bought my Oppo 93, I did own a PS3. That particular model got accolades for it's really fast BD load times, and it played SACD's too. When I sold the PS3, some games and accessories about a year later, I got $300 for it. I lucked in that regard.

Little bit OT: I haven't yet purchased a good gaming headset...

Well good then!

If you're okay dealing with the occasional finicky-ness of usb audio devices take a look at either the Logitech G35 (wired) or the G930 (wireless). I've owned both (currently the G930's) and recommend them.....if you don't mind using usb audio.

Any downside to the G930 over the G35?

It's wireless, and has some problems inherited with wireless headphones. I have the G930 because I wanted to use wireless headphones while playing games on my HTPC. I get some audio pops that is definitely noticeable with music, as well as some poor drivers that came from the CD. I also have some audio drop outs. Maybe I expected more for paying $120 for a wireless headset. I would recommend it for the good audio quality and reliable battery life.

Thanks - I would prefer wireless, but my PC is very close to my gaming chair and I'll do wired if it simplifies things and avoids potential problems like you mentioned.

I use the wired 360 controller and it's not a big deal to me. So the surround sound in games is good from both the G930 and the G35?

Should be the same I assume, since the G930 is basically a wireless G35. I'm just saying I haven't tried the G35.

Yes! It is very good and the results for surround are identical for both. I owned the G35 before getting the 930's. I wanted wireless and having it is sooooo nice but if you're tied to a chair and aren't needing to get up and stuff then you can just stick with wired.

I did notice some difference in SQ going to the wireless version. At near or max volume (which is damn loud) the wireless version seems to get pretty nasty sounding and distorted but I never use them at those levels unless I'm listening to music. So that's the only time the SQ kinda isn't all that great. If gaming is your focus, they are wicked sweet and simple too. If you listen to a lot of music and loud .... maybe keep your eyes open for other options.

I have owned both G35's and G930's and highly recommend them to gamers. I've had my 930's for almost three years and not a single problem with them. Still holding together.


I got wireless because I was using my laptop in my kitchen and would often get up to do various things. It was nice when on chat (or listening to music) that I wouldn't have to keep doing the: "Hey guys, hold on, be right back. Soda." or whatever. I just get up and keep chatting.

Newer AVS member Marafice Eye inherited my old G35's which met their demise ....somehow but now owns his own pair of G930's and would probably mirror the things I've mentioned so far.

I almost bought these:



http://www.sennheiserusa.com/over-ear-headphones-acoustic-headphones_504633




But then I realized I didn't really need 2 channel headphones of that caliber. Kinda overkill anyway. I'll check out the recommendations. Thanks!

Those would be really nice for general media but not for gaming, imo.

Actually the 598's and the new PC363D's use the same drivers. The 363D is the newer upgrade to the pc 360's. I have both sets. The 363D's are extremely great!!! the 598's will work great!

I don't have the experience with the G930's that the other have, but just a heads up. I bought them this past September to replace a broken headset I had. Got them just in time for Borderlands 2 release. They worked great for B2, then I kind of shelved them for a bit. When I went back to them, I had issues with the 7.1 sound. Basically, if I wanted anything better than stereo, I needed to restart my PC with the USB antenna plugged in. Not a huge deal, but annoying. Since then, I've upgraded to Windows 8. The Logitech software does not work on Windows 8 and I have lost the .1 bass channel of the 7.1 sound. Admittedly, I have not worked real hard to get the issue resolved, but it is still disappointing.

I bought the PC 360's. They'll be in my hands by Wednesday. They are in my price range and I'm hoping they'll work well as gaming AND 2 channel cans. I think they will compliment my SB X-Fi Titanium card quite nicely too.

You will be very happy with the 360's! they are a awesome set of phones!