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NIB Kuro Sig 141 from dealer friend or ZT60? Need help deciding. - Page 2

post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyboy View Post

it is, 60 is due:)

Man, you caught my quote before I had a chance to correct my correction, which was just deleting the incorrect post. smile.gif But yeah, you're right. The 60 is set to be release this year. smile.gif Hopefully I didn't cause any confusion.
post #32 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Man, you caught my quote before I had a chance to correct my correction, which was just deleting the incorrect post. smile.gif But yeah, you're right. The 60 is set to be release this year. smile.gif Hopefully I didn't cause any confusion.

Not in this crowd...we're on top of all things plasma. smile.gif
post #33 of 96
The 141 sounds like a no brainer to me. Expensive yes... But quality (proven unbeaten) quality costs.

Pioneer always made a loss due to the extent of the technology and quality of components. Panasonic don't.

With the DOA return promise it sounds even better. All the odds suggest it will last the distance regardless of warranty. A cheaper pretender with cheaper components with a year or two warranty, or a 60" Elite monitor.

Easy choice if it was me.

3D isn't a big deal to myself as such but to anyone who is interested i saw a 600 last week paired with a 3D processor and it amazed. 95% performance (at least) with it compared to a "dedicated" 3D display (plasma.) The guy had it very carefully set up and a lot of practice with tweaks. So it is awkward. But depends how important 3D is, but it can do it, and compared to lcd 3D, it's night and day.

The Panny has yet to match an 8G first for all round performance and image integrity (processing)

Which makes me laugh when i hear (every) year a Kuro killer is here, always Panasonic of course. But what Kuro do they mean exactly. There are quite a few different models worldwide as we are all aware, over two generations.

141 all day long. Brand new in box is a true one off opportunity.
post #34 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Got a 65VT50 right now so I'm not really hurting....just lacking a bit in some ways from my 111fd.

Since you have made the investment in your TC-P65VT50 and PRO-111FD why not wait until large screen OLED panels become mainstream?
post #35 of 96
Thread Starter 
Thanks Stu03. I know you're a big Kuro fan and you make valid points. Interestingly, I called Pioneer support about the warranty 2x and got 2 different replies. One said yes and the other said no.
post #36 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Do you think going from a 65" to a 60" would be a startling difference?

Big enough....I mean its roughly a 15% smaller area. The benefit of the 141's PQ is probably going to be mostly negated by the size difference. I really don't see the point of taking in a smaller TV especially when you have a fantasic one to begin with. What are you going to do with the 65VT? The problem isn’t the kuro, the problem is you have a fantastic top level TV now and are trying to trade some benefits of your current TV for some different benefits(and different problems).


Side note how does you're friend have a new Kuro in the box?
post #37 of 96
Lol I've never seen anyone say "I'm sure glad I went smaller."
post #38 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Lol I've never seen anyone say "I'm sure glad I went smaller."

No, but I'm sure you've heard, "I should have gotten the Kuro when I had the chance." smile.gif
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Hello! I have a friend who is a dealer and I trust him. He’ll sell me a new in the box Sig 141 for $3495 plus taxes. There is no warranty. But he will give me 3 days to declare it DOA for a full refund.

That’s a hell of a deal.

But then I’m reading the 65ZT60 should probably reach 141 black levels and be priced at about $3500.

What to do? All feedback appreciated. I have a quality problem I know and probably can’t go wrong and probably am asking too much since the ZT60 is still an unknown except for staged eye ball views but do value the opinions of the many smarter than me members of this forum. smile.gif

PS- Got a 65VT50 right now so I'm not really hurting....just lacking a bit in some ways from my 111fd.
I would not spend $4000 and not have a warranty.
post #40 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

No, but I'm sure you've heard, "I should have gotten the Kuro when I had the chance." smile.gif

But we are talking about someone who has a 65" VT. Honestly I would try another way to spend $3500 ....projector? biggrin.gif
post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Lol I've never seen anyone say "I'm sure glad I went smaller."

Actually i'm one who is glad i went smaller wink.gif
post #42 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Actually i'm one who is glad i went smaller wink.gif

That's what she said!! smile.gif

Seriously, I agree with CP in spending $4k and not having a warranty. I'll throw this out as well.......why not purchase the Kuro, sell the VT50 for a great price (shouldn't be hard at all) and use that money to help offset the cost of the 65ZT60?? Then, you've got both!! No second guessing. And then next year, this sort of discussion happens again with: Should I get the 65ZT70? lol
post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

...I'm sure you've heard, "I should have gotten the Kuro when I had the chance." smile.gif

No. I never have.

People who really wanted the KUUURO that bad went out and bought them. The rest are/were satisfied with the alternatives OR turned around and purchased used kuro sets (likely from owners who realised that picture size was more important to them than the absolute best picture or contract ratio). There's no prestige for a wannabee to openly dwell on not getting a Kuro, you see. I'm sure comments like that (factual or imagined) do please kuro owners though. After all, there's only so much patting on the back you can continue to give yourselves, and waiting once a year for the impartial writers to again declare the kuro (entire model lineup?) the benchmark is far, far too long to wait for that sort of self aggrandizement. Either way this sort of forum chatter is always amusing to read, but I'm digressing/usurping this thread. On to the original point...


To the OP: not sure how you are even debating the decision. IF you really know what these olde Kuros are all about (sounds like you do) then its a no brainer. I don't know the odds of total panel failure to operating time but if the sucker fires up out of the box with no bad pixels and runs for 72 hours straight then you have yourself a gem. You hear about models from other manufacturers failing or exhibiting common production flaws all the time... are there not members from the distinguished kuro community here who have readily available insight as to what the reliability of these units were?


Ok digressing again now...
Maybe its just me, but if I was a kuro wannabee all these years (one of these so called many "I should have gotten the kuro when I had the chance" folks) I wouldn't hesitate buying this set. OR I'd buy it, test it (longer than 3 days - maybe a few months), then sell it to the highest bidding fanatic and turn a profit. Eh???

"Virgin Kuro plasma, properly broken in for 200 hours. professionally calibrated. LESS THAN 500 hours total run time. Serious inquiries can receive an in-person demonstration to see for yourself - otherwise calibration metrics, screen shots (material of choice), and test pattern results will be provided." (that last part would be the clincher - to SEE with your own eyes and behold). Sounds like the easiest sale in history. I'm actually starting to think about this...

I know very little when it comes to model years/numbers - is this 141 model the biggest, best, and last model ever made by pioneer? (i'm assuming its has the gold ELITE letters on the chunky lower bezel?)
post #44 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

That's what she said!! smile.gif

Seriously, I agree with CP in spending $4k and not having a warranty. I'll throw this out as well.......why not purchase the Kuro, sell the VT50 for a great price (shouldn't be hard at all) and use that money to help offset the cost of the 65ZT60?? Then, you've got both!! No second guessing. And then next year, this sort of discussion happens again with: Should I get the 65ZT70? lol

smile.gif
post #45 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I would not spend $4000 and not have a warranty.

Thanks Chris. This would be a large gamble and bubbleboyjones is right in that why not take the $3500 and do something like go look at Paris? I've looked at Kuros for 6 years. smile.gif
post #46 of 96
Thread Starter 
stuckin96...what happened in 96? Was that a really great year for you? wink.gif

Thanks for the suggestion about checking to see what the Kuro reliability rates are.
post #47 of 96
Hard to say, but Consumer Reports regularly published failure rates from the TV manufacturers, and Pioneer regularly appeared at or near the top in terms of likelihood of not breaking down. I'm not sure where to get the old reports, but checking said reliability reports from 2007-2009 would give you a good idea.

Stuckin96, the 141 is probably equitable with the 151FD or very close. The last official panel manufactured by Pioneer in the 60" size is the 600M, which I don't believe is visually superior to either the 141FD or the 151FD.
post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Thanks Stu03. I know you're a big Kuro fan and you make valid points. Interestingly, I called Pioneer support about the warranty 2x and got 2 different replies. One said yes and the other said no.

To settle this I would call Pioneer one more time and let them know you have gotten two different answers when you call and you need to know 100 percent yes or no. If asking for a supervisor is an option, I would go that route. If you are willing to spend that kind of money they should at least be able to give you a concrete answer.
post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Well, there is something about the way htwaits wrote his post that got me to imagining what it would feel like to have that Kuro mounted and working only to have it develop problems a month later.
Our 6010 is on it's second calibration by UMR (Jeff Meier) and I wonder all the time what it will feel like to have it fail. eek.giffrown.gif
post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Hard to say, but Consumer Reports regularly published failure rates from the TV manufacturers, and Pioneer regularly appeared at or near the top in terms of likelihood of not breaking down. I'm not sure where to get the old reports, but checking said reliability reports from 2007-2009 would give you a good idea.

Stuckin96, the 141 is probably equitable with the 151FD or very close. The last official panel manufactured by Pioneer in the 60" size is the 600M, which I don't believe is visually superior to either the 141FD or the 151FD.

Technically, the 141FD is the best 60" panel Pioneer produced (hand picked glass, yadda, yadda). However, in reality the 141FD, 151FD, and 600M all produce an equally great picture. The only differnce between them are features. But regarding PQ, they are the same.
post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

...how does you're friend have a new Kuro in the box?

I glossed over this comment before but this is probably THE best question asked thus far. Think about it - how does somone (shop or person) sit on"The Best" plasma display EVER made in the entire world - to date - and now after how many years they are deciding to just give the sucker away??? I'd be asking: has this box changed hands in its lifetime (from dealer to dealer, etc), how did this person offering it manage to obtain it (trade, auction, was it just rotting in their stock room for past few years, etc). I'd be questioning - or more politely, trying to verify - just how "new in box" this unit is... is it still originally sealed? has it ever been opened to "look at"?, was it ever turned on? If these models have any sort of internal clock/timer would be damn interesting to check just how many running hours they have on them. I konw OP said he trusts the seller which is important, but there's no harm to simply ask the guy how this box came into his hands and what (if anything) he knows about its history. Unfortunately, unless this guy selling it received the box directly from Pioneer (as an authorized purchasing dealer) then there is NO way to be sure about this units history. Your trusted seller could say "i bought it directly from the authorized dealer who purchased it from Pioneer" but even then he can't be 100% sure. That's what the other party could have said; they could have gotten it from anywhere and then just how "new in box" does this unit look now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

stuckin96...what happened in 96? Was that a really great year for you? wink.gif

Thanks for the suggestion about checking to see what the Kuro reliability rates are.

96 could easily be 95 or 97. Those were fun times; much simpler times. No boundaries. Ah to be young again smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

...Stuckin96, the 141 is probably equitable with the 151FD or very close. The last official panel manufactured by Pioneer in the 60" size is the 600M, which I don't believe is visually superior to either the 141FD or the 151FD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Technically, the 141FD is the best 60" panel Pioneer produced (hand picked glass, yadda, yadda). However, in reality the 141FD, 151FD, and 600M all produce an equally great picture. The only differnce between them are features. But regarding PQ, they are the same.

Forgot to ask about 8G and 9G (I feel like I'm talking about Oracle DB's ha). I assume the three models mentioned are all the last 9th gen panels. Interesting to see who things the better/best model is. The 600M was a non Elite version so regardless if it were mechanically identical to the Elite's I'd say as far as the social pecking order goes people would bow down to the Elite models. So now comparing the 151 and 141 you'd think the newer 151 would again get the status nod even if it were identical to the 141 but its interesting that on the Pioneer website it lists the 141 as being "Elite Signature Series" and goes on to state "Designed & built exclusively for high-end custom installations". It doesn't state either of that for the 151...

So I guess my question was answered: this 141 model up for sale to the OP is THE BEST 60" PLASMA EVER BUILT IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. Sounds like one hell of an opprtunity - that is, IF this thing really is new in the box, as in still having the manufacterer's seal on the box.
post #52 of 96
to the original poster, I sent you a pm, but have not heard a response, if you do not take the new in box 141, would you let me know your friends contact info, shop, etc. I will take it no questions asked immediately!!
post #53 of 96
Thread Starter 
Okay, let me ask you kind folks this; if I fire it up and find blotching, dead pixels, uniformity issues, etc. what do you think I could sell it for (with full transparency to buyer...just the kind of guy I am) on the open market? Would there be a market?
post #54 of 96
I personally see the 151FD as the best flat panel ever made. I would not hesitate to purchase one used as long as it was not abused. They can be stupendous in color reproduction with proper calibration which in my opinion is mandatory if you are considering this product. This product also offers reliability, anti-reflection coatings and TV sound quality unmatched in the market today. These panels were rated at 100,000 hours and I believe it. I have owned mine for 4 years of heavy use and it shows no signs of wear. I do not see this with anything else I encounter. The only other products close to this level of accuracy and reliability are some 3 chip DLP projectors. The 141FD has some bugs with respect to how it handles some signals which knocks it out of the top category.

I know if mine where to fail at this time I would be looking at repairing it or finding another 151FD to replace it with.
post #55 of 96
Was the 151FD the last "Elite" Kuro ever made by Pioneer?
post #56 of 96
Thread Starter 
Yeah, Jeff...I did some extended reading through the Signature 141 thread and there were quite a few issues noted. Granted happy people are watching thier Kuros but there was a higher than expected number of posters with blotching and uniformity issues. It seems the "hand picked" lingo is a lot like Onkyo and Integra....a bunch of marketing hype.
post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Okay, let me ask you kind folks this; if I fire it up and find blotching, dead pixels, uniformity issues, etc. what do you think I could sell it for (with full transparency to buyer...just the kind of guy I am) on the open market? Would there be a market?


I guess that completely depends on the severity ....most likely its going to take a massive hit. I don't think there is much of a market for Kuro's with issues in 2013.Thats kind of the point of buying one in the first place, to get the best panel out there.

If your friend gave you a week to return no questions asked that would be one thing. But 3 days only if its DOA? That's insane. People keep screaming "This is your last chance at a Kuro" yet its 2013 and they still somehow keep popping up "new" in boxes. Wait until the ZT comes out then make a decision. All signs lead to the ZT evening the playing field a bit so thats good if you're looking to buy a Kuro(new or used). Whats the worst case scenario....you end up stuck buying a ZT and all Kuros are gone? Not a bad problem at all.
post #58 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303_GSS View Post

to the original poster, I sent you a pm, but have not heard a response, if you do not take the new in box 141, would you let me know your friends contact info, shop, etc. I will take it no questions asked immediately!!

I won't do that. Just an FYI. Doesn't feel right.
post #59 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

I guess that completely depends on the severity ....most likely its going to take a massive hit. I don't think there is much of a market for Kuro's with issues in 2013.Thats kind of the point of buying one in the first place, to get the best panel out there.

If your friend gave you a week to return no questions asked that would be one thing. But 3 days only if its DOA? That's insane. People keep screaming "This is your last chance at a Kuro" yet its 2013 and they still somehow keep popping up "new" in boxes. Wait until the ZT comes out then make a decision. All signs lead to the ZT evening the playing field a bit so thats good if you're looking to buy a Kuro(new or used). Whats the worst case scenario....you end up stuck buying a ZT and all Kuros are gone? Not a bad problem at all.

I know you're right. Check out the "Where's our Kuro replacement?" thread. Respected EU figure spent time with Kuro, ZT and VT. Came away very impressed with ZT.
post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckin96 View Post

Forgot to ask about 8G and 9G (I feel like I'm talking about Oracle DB's ha). I assume the three models mentioned are all the last 9th gen panels. Interesting to see who things the better/best model is. The 600M was a non Elite version so regardless if it were mechanically identical to the Elite's I'd say as far as the social pecking order goes people would bow down to the Elite models. So now comparing the 151 and 141 you'd think the newer 151 would again get the status nod even if it were identical to the 141 but its interesting that on the Pioneer website it lists the 141 as being "Elite Signature Series" and goes on to state "Designed & built exclusively for high-end custom installations". It doesn't state either of that for the 151...

So I guess my question was answered: this 141 model up for sale to the OP is THE BEST 60" PLASMA EVER BUILT IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. Sounds like one hell of an opprtunity - that is, IF this thing really is new in the box, as in still having the manufacterer's seal on the box.
Yes, yes they were (all 9G). I do think you're getting caught up in minutiae, though. smile.gif Some might claim the 600M is the best because it's a monitor and hence it was geared towards providing perfect PQ. wink.gif
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