or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming › [HOW-TO] Roll your own Synology DiskStation for NAS - UPDATE 5/28/2013 DSM 4.2-3211
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[HOW-TO] Roll your own Synology DiskStation for NAS - UPDATE 5/28/2013 DSM 4.2-3211 - Page 12

post #331 of 359
Looks like there's a version 4.3 now that works on the HP Microservers.... N54L and Gen 8
post #332 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by drawz View Post

No need for an SSD, unless trying to use it as a cache (which synology does support). The Synology OS is actually loaded to all drives in the array. Like many lightweight linux setups, it runs mostly from memory anyway. Boot from a USB flash drive to keep all your SATA ports available for HDs. I don't think XPenology runs off the boot device after the very initial startup (in fact it can be removed after boot).

Yes, but the OS is loaded onto something other than the USB boot drive, so I figured that maybe since the OS is copied to the array, that it would be running from the array(which would be a bunch of slow 5400rpm drives). But, like you said, it must be running the whole OS from memory after it is loaded because I cannot tell any difference in the OS interface being snappier now that the OS is on the 120GB Samsung 840 Evo. So I will re-install everything and let it install XPEnology back on the array.

I am running XPEnology 4.3 update 3 and everything is brilliant. Massive Thumbs up to the creator of this thread, of which I found by googling "How to use Synology OS on non Synolgy hardware". I think Synolgy is really shooting themselves in the foot by not offering a box that can properly handle transcoding. I would have happily paid for just their OS to roll my own NAS box or even paid for one of their NAS boxes if it was capable, but here we are...I must say though, for the money I spent on rolling my own NAS with XPEnology, I saved around $500 and have far superior hardware than anything Synology offers.
Edited by SandstormGT - 1/7/14 at 3:40pm
post #333 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post

Yes, but the OS is loaded onto something other than the USB boot drive, so I figured that maybe since the OS is copied to the array, that it would be running from the array(which would be a bunch of slow 5400rpm drives). But, like you said, it must be running the whole OS from memory after it is loaded because I cannot tell any difference in the OS interface being snappier now that the OS is on the 120GB Samsung 840 Evo. So I will re-install everything and let it install XPEnology back on the array.

I am running XPEnology 4.3 update 3 and everything is brilliant. Massive Thumbs up to the creator of this thread, of which I found by googling "How to use Synology OS on non Synolgy hardware". I think Synolgy is really shooting themselves in the foot by not offering a box that can properly handle transcoding. I would have happily paid for just their OS to roll my own NAS box or even paid for one of their NAS boxes if it was capable, but here we are...I must say though, for the money I spent on rolling my own NAS with XPEnology, I saved around $500 and have far superior hardware than anything Synology offers.

Just to be fair to what Synology offers OOTB that you don't get with the whiteboxes:

The ability to expand a single volume beyond 8 drives
Lower power consumption
Regular app and firmware updates
DS Apps like Cloudstation and the mobile apps
Screw less hard drive caddies
Hot swap drives with LED status indicators
Up to 4 NICS.

There are tradeoffs with either method, it all depends on your needs and budget.
post #334 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Just to be fair to what Synology offers OOTB that you don't get with the whiteboxes:

The ability to expand a single volume beyond 8 drives
Lower power consumption
Regular app and firmware updates
DS Apps like Cloudstation and the mobile apps
Screw less hard drive caddies
Hot swap drives with LED status indicators
Up to 4 NICS.

There are tradeoffs with either method, it all depends on your needs and budget.
Not completely true. The version from the Xpenology site can support up to 36 drives, can fully utilize all the DS mobile apps and utilizes all the official and 3rd party apps and updates. As far as hardware, if you purchase the right stuff, you too can have hotswap and screwless caddies. You do lose some power advantages, but again, if you pick the right hardware, you can do a pretty good job. My ESXi system only consumes 45 watts while idle and I've never seen it go over 120. It's running Xpenology with 10 drives, a WHS VM, a OSX VM, a Win7 VM, and a couple Linux VMs.

What you do lose is the ability to update firmwares directly, but the Xpenology group does a pretty good job of keeping things up to date.
post #335 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Not completely true. The version from the Xpenology site can support up to 36 drives,
This must be fairly new then, I was under the impression that it was limited to 8 or 12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

can fully utilize all the DS mobile apps and utilizes all the official and 3rd party apps and updates.
I know you can use all the third party apps, but you can use the DS mobile apps without setting up port forwarding rules and using a dynamic dns service? How about Cloudstation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

As far as hardware, if you purchase the right stuff, you too can have hotswap and screwless caddies.
Unless you buy used, there are very few if any cases with 5+ hot swap drives, led status lights, and screwless caddies that give you any real price advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

You do lose some power advantages, but again, if you pick the right hardware, you can do a pretty good job. My ESXi system only consumes 45 watts while idle and I've never seen it go over 120. It's running Xpenology with 10 drives, a WHS VM, a OSX VM, a Win7 VM, and a couple Linux VMs.
Still about twice the power draw of an 8 bay Synology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

What you do lose is the ability to update firmwares directly, but the Xpenology group does a pretty good job of keeping things up to date.
True - they do a great job.
post #336 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

This must be fairly new then, I was under the impression that it was limited to 8 or 12.
I haven't gone above 10 yet, but I've read a few folks that have 20+ drives
Quote:
I know you can use all the third party apps, but you can use the DS mobile apps without setting up port forwarding rules and using a dynamic dns service? How about Cloudstation?
All the DS apps work great. If you have MKVs and want to use DS video, I recommend also downloading AcePlayer. I believe Cloudstation works but I don't use it. I did set it up for brief time, but I prefer Dropbox. There is a 3rd party app that will sync your Dropbox to a Share on the Synology, but it's buggy at the moment.
Quote:
Unless you buy used, there are very few if any cases with 5+ hot swap drives, led status lights, and screwless caddies that give you any real price advantage.
What about the N54L and newer Gen8 hardware? Don't they come with screwless, hot swap sleds? It's true that with a standard "whitebox" case you don't get those by default, but you can easily add them with something like an IcyDock.
Quote:
Still about twice the power draw of an 8 bay Synology.
True, but we're talking pennies here. Plus with ESXi, I get multiple other systems to use as well. My old standalone WHS box used over 300 watts, so 45 is a huge improvement for me.
post #337 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I haven't gone above 10 yet, but I've read a few folks that have 20+ drives
I saw a few posts where people said they did it, but I didn't see any answers to how.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

All the DS apps work great. If you have MKVs and want to use DS video, I recommend also downloading AcePlayer. I believe Cloudstation works but I don't use it. I did set it up for brief time, but I prefer Dropbox. There is a 3rd party app that will sync your Dropbox to a Share on the Synology, but it's buggy at the moment.
Do they work without port forwarding? As far as I know you need a valid Synology serial to use the DS apps without port forwarding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

What about the N54L and newer Gen8 hardware? Don't they come with screwless, hot swap sleds? It's true that with a standard "whitebox" case you don't get those by default, but you can easily add them with something like an IcyDock.
The N54L is $360.00, only holds 4 drives and has a Turion so it doesn't transcode very well. It's really not much better then the Synology 413. The Icydocks are nice, but add $130.00 onto the price of your case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

True, but we're talking pennies here. Plus with ESXi, I get multiple other systems to use as well. My old standalone WHS box used over 300 watts, so 45 is a huge improvement for me.
Well aware of ESXi, I had an interesting discussion with the Synology folks at their booth at VMWorld this year. wink.gif
post #338 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

I saw a few posts where people said they did it, but I didn't see any answers to how.
Didn't think there was anything special to do. Just load the disks and create the array. I've got a test VM I can fire up and do some testing, if you'd like.
Quote:
Do they work without port forwarding? As far as I know you need a valid Synology serial to use the DS apps without port forwarding.
I only had to open port 5000 in my router for the Management console, but otherwise the rest work fine. There was nothing else I had to do.
Quote:
The N54L is $360.00, only holds 4 drives and has a Turion so it doesn't transcode very well. It's really not much better then the Synology 413. The Icydocks are nice, but add $130.00 onto the price of your case.
None of the CPUs in the current Synology's do any better. Why would you want your Synology to transcode anyway? On iOS, AcePlayer does a great job and there are number of devices you can attach in front to do your transcoding - WDTV, Popcorn Hour, Mede8er, etc. If you buy the right hardware and Vmware, you can build a XBMC VM that will transcode beautifully.
post #339 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Didn't think there was anything special to do. Just load the disks and create the array. I've got a test VM I can fire up and do some testing, if you'd like.
There was some file editing to do. In my testing I never got a VM past 12 drives. Don't go out of your way unless you really feel a need to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I only had to open port 5000 in my router for the Management console, but otherwise the rest work fine. There was nothing else I had to do.
We may not be on the same page here. With a Synology, you can add "quickconnect id" that let's you use that id for cloud station and the DS apps. It allows you to connect without any port forwarding or dyndns. Synology has servers that basically brokers the connection between the devices.

Are you able to use this or do you need to use the IP address that your ISP hands you? Are you able to access DS File, DS Music, etc.. this way? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

None of the CPUs in the current Synology's do any better. Why would you want your Synology to transcode anyway? On iOS, AcePlayer does a great job and there are number of devices you can attach in front to do your transcoding - WDTV, Popcorn Hour, Mede8er, etc. If you buy the right hardware and Vmware, you can build a XBMC VM that will transcode beautifully.
Correct - I never said they did, I was just making a comparison of devices that are equivalent to the ones you posted.

This whole thing started in response to post that called a whitebox 'far superior hardware' because it can handle PLEX transcoding and cost less. All I'm doing is pointing out there are tradeoffs when you do this and there are benefits to either method.

And you don't need to go over all the ways to stream and transcode media, I've tried them all and I'm pretty happy with the way I have things now. wink.gif
post #340 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

We may not be on the same page here. With a Synology, you can add "quickconnect id" that let's you use that id for cloud station and the DS apps. It allows you to connect without any port forwarding or dyndns. Synology has servers that basically brokers the connection between the devices.

Are you able to use this or do you need to use the IP address that your ISP hands you? Are you able to access DS File, DS Music, etc.. this way? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious.
No, I am not using a Quckconnect ID as I didn't really see the need. The apps work fine with either an IP or DNS name.
post #341 of 359
Looking for a bit of help here. My box running was running 4.1 of the Synology software just fine and has been for many months. I was having some file throughput issues, so I decided to upgrade to 4.2. The migration worked fine, it boots up, etc but I've discovered that support for my NIC chipset (looks like Realtek 8169) was dropped. Sooo.. I don't have any network access, which is the whole point of the Synology.

However, I booted back up with the 4.1 USB stick, and I can access it via the web screen, but only to install the DSM software again. I have tried to downgrade to 4.1, but of course the Synology software won't allow that. Says the new software must be at least 3202 (the 4.2 version I had tried to install).

Any ideas on what to do? I suppose worst case is that I could get a Intel NIC that seems to be supported in 4.2, but I'd hate to buy (and wait) for another NIC when it was working.
post #342 of 359
What kind of file throughput issues were you having? There are a few options I can see.

1. Check out the Xpenology forums and see if anyone has added driver support for that NIC as an add on package for 4.2
2. Backup all your data and rebuild with 4.1
3. Try 4.3. There is a new package on the Xpenology site for 4.3, but I don't know if it supports the NIC you have.
post #343 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

What kind of file throughput issues were you having? There are a few options I can see.

1. Check out the Xpenology forums and see if anyone has added driver support for that NIC as an add on package for 4.2
2. Backup all your data and rebuild with 4.1
3. Try 4.3. There is a new package on the Xpenology site for 4.3, but I don't know if it supports the NIC you have.
The file throughput issues was that the transfers would stall for a second or so. Probably the max transfer I would see (over gigabit) would be 75mb/s, which were fine, but then it would drop down to a couple of hundred KB for a few seconds then come back up. The problem manifested itself mostly in serving high def video (blu-ray rips) to a Media player. It would play for about 4 minutes then stop. Playing the same file from the internal HD would work fine. I'm not positive it was the Synology causing it, but it was a place to start.

1) I've visited there and while it seems that someone wanted that driver, and the guy said he's put it in, but it doesn't look like a new version has been put out since then.

2) Backup the data - do you mean take out the HDs and reinstall with another HD, then reintroduce the old HDs? I'm worried about losing the data - will that work? I have the important stuff backed up, but this was the backup machine. Also, the movies aren't backed up anywhere else. They are on this with a RAID setup in case one of the HD fails, I don't have to redo all the movies.

3) I found this nugget on the 4.3 discussion page: "Replace the REALTEK r8169 driver with the r8168 v8.037 (RTL8111x/RTL8168x/RTL8411x)" so I'm not sure it will work. I'm hesitate to try it because it might just move the version further along. I guess it can't cause any more issues than I already have.
post #344 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaflyer View Post

2) Backup the data - do you mean take out the HDs and reinstall with another HD, then reintroduce the old HDs? I'm worried about losing the data - will that work? I have the important stuff backed up, but this was the backup machine. Also, the movies aren't backed up anywhere else. They are on this with a RAID setup in case one of the HD fails, I don't have to redo all the movies.
By backing up, I mean transfering all your data to an external source (USB drive, another unit, etc.) and then rebuilding from scratch. I don't think you can re-introduce the drives back into the system. Now granted, I haven't really tried too hard, but the one time I thought the software asked to rebuild the array. Perhaps, if you had a backup of your configuration, you'd be able to rebuild under 4.1, reinstall the drives, and then restore the configuration. I'd still want a backup of my data in case anything went wrong. You can pickup a 3TB external drive for around $120 these days.
post #345 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Just to be fair to what Synology offers OOTB that you don't get with the whiteboxes:

The ability to expand a single volume beyond 8 drives
Lower power consumption
Regular app and firmware updates
DS Apps like Cloudstation and the mobile apps
Screw less hard drive caddies
Hot swap drives with LED status indicators
Up to 4 NICS.

There are tradeoffs with either method, it all depends on your needs and budget.

1) I personally would have no reason to expand a single volume past 8 disks, that is 24TB with 2 disk redundancy in SHR2 mode.
2) My box is pretty low power consumption, under 55w streaming a movie that has to be transcoded.
3)All apps I have tried seem to work fine, I installed Firmware 4.3 of XPEnololgy but have done all 4 updates through the control panel.
4)I have not tried any apps remotely yet, but I have no problems logging into the XPEnology management console remotely, after forwarding port 5000. I already had a no-ip.com DNS setup, so that works fine for me. But you are right, you can't use Synology DNS without changing the serial# to my understanding.
5)The case I am using (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339) cost $100, has 5 hot-swap bays, it takes less than a minute to attach the rails and 4 thumb screws to each drive. This case actually supports (7)3.5" drives and (1)2.5" drive, but my motherboard only has 6 sata slots.
6) I could have support for several NIC's if I needed it, through a PCI card, but I have no problems saturating my current network, so I am not sure the majority of users utilize this feature. 4 NIC's could be accomplished several different ways, even in my super small case. I was just saving my PCI slot for something useful.

I would have had no issues purchasing a Synology product if they offered it with a better processor, but because they currently do not, I had to look for another method, and I am glad I did now. Minus the drives, and using a smaller/cheaper(but better than Synology) Core-i3 processor, I think I could build two of the same boxes for the same price as a Synology NAS.
post #346 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post

1) I personally would have no reason to expand a single volume past 8 disks, that is 24TB with 2 disk redundancy in SHR2 mode.
2) My box is pretty low power consumption, under 55w streaming a movie that has to be transcoded.
3)All apps I have tried seem to work fine, I installed Firmware 4.3 of XPEnololgy but have done all 4 updates through the control panel.
4)I have not tried any apps remotely yet, but I have no problems logging into the XPEnology management console remotely, after forwarding port 5000. I already had a no-ip.com DNS setup, so that works fine for me. But you are right, you can't use Synology DNS without changing the serial# to my understanding.
5)The case I am using (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339) cost $100, has 5 hot-swap bays, it takes less than a minute to attach the rails and 4 thumb screws to each drive. This case actually supports (7)3.5" drives and (1)2.5" drive, but my motherboard only has 6 sata slots.
6) I could have support for several NIC's if I needed it, through a PCI card, but I have no problems saturating my current network, so I am not sure the majority of users utilize this feature. 4 NIC's could be accomplished several different ways, even in my super small case. I was just saving my PCI slot for something useful.

I would have had no issues purchasing a Synology product if they offered it with a better processor, but because they currently do not, I had to look for another method, and I am glad I did now. Minus the drives, and using a smaller/cheaper(but better than Synology) Core-i3 processor, I think I could build two of the same boxes for the same price as a Synology NAS.

1) I thought the same thing at about 15TB of movies. Amazon Prime and some ridiculous sales on BR box sets have changed that.
2) 55W is very good.
3) There have been updates from Synology that have broken the Xpenology firmware in the past. It may very well happen again. Heck, there was an update from Xpenology that dropped support for some NIC's.
3&4) I should have been more specific. I was referring to the using the DS Mobile apps and Cloudstation. The DS Mobile apps mostly work with port forwarding, but Cloudstation does not.
5) There's room for 7 drives, but only 5 are hot swap ready. You should also add the cost of the power supply you bought to go with it. There are also no drive status LED's, and you have to open the case to get to the drives.
6) There are other reasons for multiple NICS than just the chance of saturating a single gig link.

I'm glad your setup is working out for you. However, like I said earlier, there are tradeoffs with either method, it all depends on your needs and budget.
Edited by robnix - 1/13/14 at 2:12pm
post #347 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

By backing up, I mean transfering all your data to an external source (USB drive, another unit, etc.) and then rebuilding from scratch. I don't think you can re-introduce the drives back into the system. Now granted, I haven't really tried too hard, but the one time I thought the software asked to rebuild the array. Perhaps, if you had a backup of your configuration, you'd be able to rebuild under 4.1, reinstall the drives, and then restore the configuration. I'd still want a backup of my data in case anything went wrong. You can pickup a 3TB external drive for around $120 these days.
I ended up just getting a network card that was supported, using the Intel e1000 driver. It was $30 and worth solving the frustration.

The problem with backing up the stuff and reinstalling was that I had no access to the Synology to back up the disks. Other than removing the disk and hoping I could read the data another way, there wasn't a way to back it up.
post #348 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

1) I thought the same thing at about 15TB of movies. Amazon Prime and some ridiculous sales on BR box sets have changed that.
2) 55W is very good.
3) There have been updates from Synology that have broken the Xpenology firmware in the past. It may very well happen again. Heck, there was an update from Xpenology that dropped support for some NIC's.
3&4) I should have been more specific. I was referring to the using the DS Mobile apps and Cloudstation. The DS Mobile apps mostly work with port forwarding, but Cloudstation does not.
5) There's room for 7 drives, but only 5 are hot swap ready. You should also add the cost of the power supply you bought to go with it. There are also no drive status LED's, and you have to open the case to get to the drives.
6) There are other reasons for multiple NICS than just the chance of saturating a single gig link.

I'm glad your setup is working out for you. However, like I said earlier, there are tradeoffs with either method, it all depends on your needs and budget.

I certainly agree on the trade-off's, If I had an extra $1000 I would have bought a top of the line Synology with the proper socket and just replaced the CPU. Or I guess I could have just bought a Synology and used it only for storing files, and built another PC to act as a PlexMediaServer that can handle the transcoding. Maybe one day Synology will sell their OS and I can happily pay for it and be in a good place.
post #349 of 359

Is there any PCI SATA cards I can get that would work with this?

post #350 of 359

I have a huge problem.

connected now only one 160GB seagate barracud cean raw disk and booting on usb stick with Synology latest version. It installs the program on the machine when booting on the usb. Fine and stand still in some phase, thats fine.

 

Its also found in Syology Assistant latest ver 4.3.4359

I take out the usb stick right click on my pc booted with usb stick....

Mark the servernaem and choose install and also choose the .pat file that you described.

The installations starts and after just 6 sec if goes to nearly last line in assistans and tell 2writing configuration files"... there it counts down 550sec and counting down and procent green line counting up.

Meanwhile the pc just suddenly reboots and in your decription it it told to power it off. I do that.

Then put in the usb stick again and go to the laptop were I have the synology assistans still counting.....

I poer up the PC on the usb again and it goes through lots of lines on the display and my laptop still counting and cant find the NAS anymore....still counting down and get a time out after 10min....but before the timeout comes the strange thing is: The PC new NAS goes through all of the lines and then power it self off.????? Is that normal or what is wrong?

What should do what can be the problem?

 

/Jimmy

post #351 of 359
Is the hardware listed in the OP required? Or with VMWare/virtualbox can almost any (similar) hardware be used now? I just bought parts from a DIY Nas, an am trying to decide between freenas, nas4free or this hacked synology setup. I've got two existing (official) Synology's already.
post #352 of 359

I was just able to get this working on a DELL Dimension E510

post #353 of 359
This is the message I get after rebooting the machine after a Volume Crash:
Attention

USB Disk 1: Your disk space is running out.
Please add or replace disks to expand the storage.

What do i need to do next?
Thanks
post #354 of 359
I corrected the problem by rebooting the machine and then I shut it down.
Removed the USB thumb drive, reformatted it and expanded the partition.
I reinstalled the software put the thumb drive back in the machine and restarted.
I now have a healthy Synology DSM and didn't lose any of my files.
post #355 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilpostini2 View Post

This is the message I get after rebooting the machine after a Volume Crash:
Attention

USB Disk 1: Your disk space is running out.
Please add or replace disks to expand the storage.

What do i need to do next?
Thanks

A lot of people never have it. How?
Did you install a lot of apps or something like this that occupied more space on your thumb drive?
post #356 of 359
What are my best options to expand my HP N54L beyond 6 drives (4 in raid slots, 1 media bay, 1 e-sata and back)
post #357 of 359

Thanks for the great article.  I was able to get DSM installed on my Dell Optiplex 755 SFF.  It has a intel dual core 2.33 and 8GB or RAM.  the only weird thing is i have to install the DSM on a USB Drive to boot to.  I have a larget 2TB internal drive that i use as my VMware iscsi LUN for my ESXi host shared storage but  it seems to work perfect.  

 

Actually one more thing is that I cant reboot the DSM from the OS, i have to reboot the DSM in person. Seems like it shuts down but wont come back up without me pushing the power button but its been running for over a week with  no issues.  I can spare that 16GB thumb drive.

 

Thanks again!

post #358 of 359
Proposed XPEnology DIY system build:

http://xpenology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2852

(the formatting in my original posts was completely messed up)
Edited by dabotsonline - 4/10/14 at 12:12pm
post #359 of 359
You definitely win for completeness of concept and well thought out plan. I don't know the price of all this, but in my head, I'm thinking it might just be cheaper/better to buy a true Synology system. Might be a little more up front, but in the end, you won't have to hassle with the possible incompatibility with hardware/software etc.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming › [HOW-TO] Roll your own Synology DiskStation for NAS - UPDATE 5/28/2013 DSM 4.2-3211