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Recommend me a subwoofer - Page 4

post #91 of 126
3/1/13 at 11:35am
Rythmik because I have one already and appreciate the sound and service; I also wanted a servo. I am sure you'd be happy with any of them.
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post #92 of 126
3/1/13 at 2:27pm
The LFM-1 Plus... smile.gif Aside from sounding completely awesome, the plexi-top on it makes it visually appealing to me.. they are nice man.
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post #93 of 126
3/2/13 at 8:30am
Thread Starter 
I will most likely go with Rythmik LV12R

I just can't justify paying 18.6% more for Hsu VTF-2MK4 for shipping and sales tax. The sub is $529 but I will end up paying $627.32 for it. Am I getting $627.32 worth of sub? No, I'm still getting $529 sub just paying $98.32 more for it.

Can anyone give me Rythmik email? They don't have it on their website.

Thanks
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post #94 of 126
3/2/13 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

I will most likely go with Rythmik LV12R

I just can't justify paying 18.6% more for Hsu VTF-2MK4 for shipping and sales tax. The sub is $529 but I will end up paying $627.32 for it. Am I getting $627.32 worth of sub? No, I'm still getting $529 sub just paying $98.32 more for it.

Can anyone give me Rythmik email? They don't have it on their website.

Thanks
And if you dont like the Hsu you will have to pay return shipping. So you can add another $70 or so to that. It could end up costing you $150 or so to find out you dont like it. They will not give you back any of the shipping costs. It cost me $110 to find out the stf2 is a bedroom sub.
Edited by Bond 007 - 3/2/13 at 8:51am
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post #95 of 126
3/2/13 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

And if you dont like the Hsu you will have to pay return shipping. So you can add another $70 or so to that. It could end up costing you $150 or so to find out you dont like it. They will not give you back any of the shipping costs. It cost me $110 to find out the stf2 is a bedroom sub.

Well I would chalk that up to either not researching HSU's return policy and not researching HSU's Subs on this forum. HSU has stellar customer service and is highly recommended on this forum. I pulled the trigger on HSU just by reading lots of threads about ID subwoofers, HSU was a perfect fit and I bought the VTF-15H. 9 months later and I am very happy with it! Granted I know how you feel because out here in Cincy, there isn't much to demo as far as subs go (I am from CA originally). I did demo the uber Paradigm Sub2 but that was a bit out of my price range. But this forum has helped me find the perfect sub for my price and room. Next I am going to try a DIY and see how that goes.
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post #96 of 126
3/2/13 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

Well I would chalk that up to either not researching HSU's return policy and not researching HSU's Subs on this forum. HSU has stellar customer service and is highly recommended on this forum. I pulled the trigger on HSU just by reading lots of threads about ID subwoofers, HSU was a perfect fit and I bought the VTF-15H. 9 months later and I am very happy with it! Granted I know how you feel because out here in Cincy, there isn't much to demo as far as subs go (I am from CA originally). I did demo the uber Paradigm Sub2 but that was a bit out of my price range. But this forum has helped me find the perfect sub for my price and room. Next I am going to try a DIY and see how that goes.
I didnt say Hsu had bad customer service. Only that you damn well better know what you are getting or it may cost you dearly.
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post #97 of 126
3/2/13 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

Can anyone give me Rythmik email? They don't have it on their website.

There's a form on their website that you submit questions to and Brian will email you back or you can just post your question over in the Rythmik thread.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/contact.html

I think you will be very pleased with that sub.
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post #98 of 126
3/2/13 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

I will most likely go with Rythmik LV12R

I just can't justify paying 18.6% more for Hsu VTF-2MK4 for shipping and sales tax. The sub is $529 but I will end up paying $627.32 for it. Am I getting $627.32 worth of sub? No, I'm still getting $529 sub just paying $98.32 more for it.

Can anyone give me Rythmik email? They don't have it on their website.

Thanks

That makes sense to me. I would probably go with the cheaper one.

The Outlaw Plus, the VTF-2.4, and the LV12R are going to be way more similar than they are different. They are the same class of sub. Because room acoustics and placement are such a big factor in sub performance--and let's not ignore personal listening preferences, too--you could put all three in one room, and like one the best. Move them to another room, and prefer a different one. So all this debate about which one is better is more a theoretical exercise than truly providing definitive evidence of the superiority of one over the other. Especially since argument for preference for a sub is often motivated by other biases (such as ownership) or having heard one but not another.
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post #99 of 126
3/2/13 at 5:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

There's a form on their website that you submit questions to and Brian will email you back or you can just post your question over in the Rythmik thread.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/contact.html

I think you will be very pleased with that sub.

Thanks,
Damn Apple, the contact form is in Flash. Could not see it on iPad.
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post #100 of 126
3/3/13 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Beeman, who knows what volume level that measurement was taken at. maybe 80 or 85 dB, and even then, what is the distortion levels at 14 hz?. I'm not knocking that sub, but I guarantee you it is not going to have much output at 14 hz at significant levels, even with extraordinary room gain. We are talking about CEA max output here.

I was looking at the +/- 2dB as in my opinion, jacked up or turned down, +/-2dB is significant and Rythmik isn't known for jacking up posted information. Either which way, in fairness, that's why I posted a disclaimer stating that I didn't know if the information was ground plane or an in-room measurement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

Now I'm even more confused than when I started this thread.

Which one to choose? I eliminated the sealed subs from the list.

SVS PB 1000 $500

Rythmik LV12R $550

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus $621.39

HSU VTF-1 MK2 $542.82
HSU VTF-2 MK4 $650.73

Either the SVS, PB-1000 or the Rythmik LV12R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post


Now just for a minute let's get back to the original question.
Obviously everybody is very well informed on the subject.
Considering the amp, driver, measurements, ... everything, which one would you choose?
Let's say all three priced the same.

Rythmik LV12R
Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus
HSU VTF-2 MK4

Thanks.

Rythmik, LV12R.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 3/3/13 at 5:12am
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post #101 of 126
3/3/13 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

The servo control on the Rythmik does give one disadvantage. It reduces the performance at the upper end of it's frequency range.

I am not picking on you, but the statement is not true. We have the upper end extend to 200hz already. Now there are subs extend all the way to 1khz. Place your ear next to those subs, you will hear "far more" hiss and other noise than you will with our subs. We got a pretty clean sound for a reason. Bandwdith is also related to higher order distortion. Wider bandwidth opens up to higher order distortion such as 5th or higher order HD. In short, "It is not a BUG, it is a FEATURE" -- John Cooley, Deepchip.com.

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Edited by Rythmik - 3/3/13 at 1:26pm
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post #102 of 126
3/4/13 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
I am kinda set on Rythmik LV12R
But since I'm getting Paradigm speakers I looked at their subs as well.

Monitor SUB 8 8" 300W (900W Dynamic) 19Hz $700
40Lb 10.7"Hx10.3"Wx11.1"D

Monitor SUB 10 10" 300W (900W Dynamic) 17Hz $850
54Lb 13"Hx11.1"Wx12.7"D

Monitor SUB 12 12" 300W (900W Dynamic) 16Hz $1,000
65Lb 15.1"Hx13"Wx14.5"D

Of course they're much more expensive than I'm planning to spend but in a package with speakers the price will be negotiated.
What's interesting is that SUB 8 is 300W and goes down to 19Hz, like Rythmik.

How do they compare to Rythmik?

Thanks.
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post #103 of 126
3/4/13 at 3:39pm
Paradigm's extension rating is in-room w/ boundary gain, not 2m ground-plane.

That aside:
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg 
Order of priorities:

1. PERFORMANCE for the PRICE. I want MAX performance for MAX $650. In other words I want it to go as deep as possible, play as loud as possible, all for $650.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg 
I eliminated the sealed subs from the list.
SVS SB12-NSD...or Paradigm Monitor SUB 8. Hmmm... wink.gif
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post #104 of 126
3/4/13 at 3:39pm
I don't think any of those subs will be as good as the Rythmik, not even the 12". And no way any of them are going to achieve the stated extension, not even close. I doubt the Monitor Sub 12 will have any significant output below 30 hz, it is a modestly powered sealed 12", that extension claim is bogus, unless they mean something like 12 dB down, of course, a window they would naturally omit. I would much rather have the Rythmik than any of those.
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post #105 of 126
3/4/13 at 3:42pm
Yeah, all your prior lists looked pretty good till that one. Scratch those.
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post #106 of 126
3/4/13 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I am not picking on you, but the statement is not true. We have the upper end extend to 200hz already. Now there are subs extend all the way to 1khz. Place your ear next to those subs, you will hear "far more" hiss and other noise than you will with our subs. We got a pretty clean sound for a reason. Bandwdith is also related to higher order distortion. Wider bandwidth opens up to higher order distortion such as 5th or higher order HD. In short, "It is not a BUG, it is a FEATURE" -- John Cooley, Deepchip.com.

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You publish frequency response graphs on your web site that show response dropping off above 80 Hz on some of your products.
Edited by ehlarson - 3/4/13 at 4:03pm
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post #107 of 126
3/4/13 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

You publish frequency response graphs on your web site that show response dropping off above 80 Hz on some of your products.
If this page is any indication, the drop-off is the result of the default LPF setting, not the servo design itself. On that same page, another graph shows -3dB variance up to 200Hz. This is the explanation:
Quote:
The new A370PEQ2 amplifier, now shipped standard with F15, has an additional low pass filter setting --LFE. It extends the upper end -3db extension to 200hz.
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post #108 of 126
3/4/13 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
OK, that's what I thought, Paradigm subs are forgotten.
Rythmik LV12R it is smile.gif

Thanks
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post #109 of 126
3/4/13 at 4:11pm
+1, if you need more bandwidth use the LFE in instead of line in. As the man said it is a choice; a feature not a bug. Subs with a large bandwidth have more noise. Rythmik offers the choice to reduce the bandwidth and reduce the noise. Zero drawbacks, all potential performance improvement, that's my kind of sub.

And it has nothing to do with the servo.
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post #110 of 126
3/4/13 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

+1, if you need more bandwidth use the LFE in instead of line in. As the man said it is a choice; a feature not a bug. Subs with a large bandwidth have more noise. Rythmik offers the choice to reduce the bandwidth and reduce the noise. Zero drawbacks, all potential performance improvement, that's my kind of sub.

And it has nothing to do with the servo.

Since I am using this in a stereo system with powered speakers and no bass management the LFE input is not an option. Even if it were going into a different application this would give me pause simply because of the lack of flexibility this implies.

I ended up purchasing a sub that is -3 db at 450 Hz. It has no audible noise.

The Rythmik F15 spec on the line inputs is, and I quote: 14 - 90 Hz (-2 dB @ 14 Hz) with LINE IN inputs in all models.

Sorry but 90 Hz doesn't cut it. It needs to be flat at least 1 octave above the crossover point. Ideally more.
Edited by ehlarson - 3/4/13 at 6:21pm
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post #111 of 126
3/4/13 at 7:31pm
??? I understand why it won't work for you, but if the maximum you can set the LPF cut-off on line-in is 90 Hz then it rolls off above that no matter that the driver and amp is actually good to 200 Hz or more. The sub itself is good to 200 Hz, but the LPF of the line-in rolls off over 90 Hz (max).

I am actually using another alternative; LFE input after an active crossover so I roll off the subs and the mains.
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post #112 of 126
3/4/13 at 8:11pm
+1 to Don's accurate points

ehlarson
I'm glad that you found a sub you are happy with and fits your application. However you should not attempt to ding the Rythmik's design choices because of your system's perceived limitations. The Rythmik offers great flexibility and several amp choices, if you were interested in the sub you were welcome to seek options from Brian and point out what your concerns and limitations were. There are many Rythmik users with unique situations that Brian assists in optimizing their configuration (such as the 2 channel folks and people with vintage gear). There very well may have been options for you hence why I say "perceived". For the majority of us that are using AVR's with bass management, the Rythmik offers more flexibility then we even need and thus provides us flexibility and configuration options. I have been able to configure a measured smooth transition between my mains and subs at 80Hz and 40 Hz crossovers with both the LFE and Line in.

What you are claiming to be a bug is an intentional design for higher sound quality. I don't agree with your approach to throw out the one line blame it on being the servo design's fault, I asked you to elaborate at that point and you did not. It has nothing to do with the servo and your post is misleading.

You found something your happy with, great, but most users in this market don't have the same constraints you have.
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post #113 of 126
3/4/13 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

+1 to Don's accurate points

ehlarson
I'm glad that you found a sub you are happy with and fits your application. However you should not attempt to ding the Rythmik's design choices because of your system's perceived limitations. The Rythmik offers great flexibility and several amp choices, if you were interested in the sub you were welcome to seek options from Brian and point out what your concerns and limitations were. There are many Rythmik users with unique situations that Brian assists in optimizing their configuration (such as the 2 channel folks and people with vintage gear). There very well may have been options for you hence why I say "perceived". For the majority of us that are using AVR's with bass management, the Rythmik offers more flexibility then we even need and thus provides us flexibility and configuration options. I have been able to configure a measured smooth transition between my mains and subs at 80Hz and 40 Hz crossovers with both the LFE and Line in.

What you are claiming to be a bug is an intentional design for higher sound quality. I don't agree with your approach to throw out the one line blame it on being the servo design's fault, I asked you to elaborate at that point and you did not. It has nothing to do with the servo and your post is misleading.

You found something your happy with, great, but most users in this market don't have the same constraints you have.

I have to agree with dstew. Even the upper end rolloff on the line in is high enough for configuring with most speakers. I don't get what the big deal is.
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post #114 of 126
3/5/13 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Sorry but 90 Hz doesn't cut it. It needs to be flat at least 1 octave above the crossover point. Ideally more.

Have you measured your room? Crossovers and slopes mean absolutely zip if a sub is not properly integrated into a room's acoustics and one happens to be fighting a mode, reenforced peak, null, dip or harmonic in the 90Hz range. Just saying.

One sub good.

Two subs better.

Three subs makes up for a lot of sonic sins.

...tongue.gif

(Currently fighting a 52Hz to 90Hz; an 8dB reenforced mode above, moving right into a 16dB null below, +/-3dB.)

The point, it's about proper integration, first or in my opinion, none of the rest matters. If you've already measured and properly integrated your subwoofer system into your room's acoustics, then ignore everything I posted in my above. tongue.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 3/5/13 at 4:36am
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post #115 of 126
3/5/13 at 2:19pm
Getting my LV12R tomorrow... considered the same subs as mentioned smile.gif
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post #116 of 126
3/6/13 at 10:07am
So, I think I'm overpowering my subwoofer, it's beginning to pop on me at some really bassy loud scenes (i.e. in LoTR RoTK, when those big ass elephants are stomping around). You can see my setup in my sig, and I've known for a while now that my sub is less than optimal... what would anyone recommend as a replacement? Ideally for <$350 or so. Thanks!
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post #117 of 126
3/6/13 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So, I think I'm overpowering my subwoofer, it's beginning to pop on me at some really bassy loud scenes (i.e. in LoTR RoTK, when those big ass elephants are stomping around). You can see my setup in my sig, and I've known for a while now that my sub is less than optimal... what would anyone recommend as a replacement? Ideally for <$350 or so. Thanks!

The most commonly recommended sub at that price point is the Klipsch RW12d. Appears it is outperforming the other subs in that range. If you can save up for something more you should consider it.
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post #118 of 126
3/6/13 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So, I think I'm overpowering my subwoofer, it's beginning to pop on me at some really bassy loud scenes (i.e. in LoTR RoTK, when those big ass elephants are stomping around). You can see my setup in my sig, and I've known for a while now that my sub is less than optimal... what would anyone recommend as a replacement? Ideally for <$350 or so. Thanks!

HSU STF-2 would be good at that price I think smile.gif
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post #119 of 126
3/6/13 at 1:27pm
To me, the RW-12D is better than stf-2 for the money. I agree that you should save up a bit for those $600 range sub. I learnt a lesson by buying lesser sub and find myself keep upgrading costing a lot more with this route.
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post #120 of 126
3/6/13 at 1:45pm
Thanks for the input guys. What is it specifically about my setup that screams $600 subwoofer? Certainly not doubting you guys, I'm just curious basically how to match an ideal subwoofer given a certain setup.
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