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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 36

post #1051 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveendicott View Post

I have tried various settings and think the picture is better. One question though, I assume the light 'leakage' (or whatever) is here to stay? It won't get any better with use or via a firmware update? I have backlight set to around 4 or 5 but in dark scenes it is fairly noticeable. Does anybody have experience with direct Sony Store purchase as to whether this is the kind of thing that Sony would let me exchange? I bought extended warranty with Sony if that would help the situation (they gave me 15% discount due to my dead KDS-60A3000 and that applied to the warranty too). Thanks.

Did you find settings that eliminated the "grainy" appearance? My replacement set is somewhat better as far as clouding but I too notice a lot of "grain" especially during motion. I thought I had it somewhat better until I went downstairs where my old TV was on and immediately noticed the old set was much clearer.
post #1052 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

This is the KDL-70R550A.
I'd like to add this to the Success list of the HDTV Overclocking: 120Hz from PC to TV list.
Some of them have official 120Hz support, and some of them are unofficial/undocumented (e.g. EDID overrides).
But nontheless, I'll add your 70" Sony to the list!

I think if they all use the same chips (which they now almost always do for the same model prefix/suffices), then, all 2013-year Sony 50/60/70" should be able to accept true 120Hz natively!

Sorry to disappoint, but I just double checked to make sure it's actually displaying 120hz and sadly it's not. It only shows 60hz.
post #1053 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

This is the KDL-70R550A.
I'd like to add this to the Success list of the HDTV Overclocking: 120Hz from PC to TV list.
Some of them have official 120Hz support, and some of them are unofficial/undocumented (e.g. EDID overrides).
But nontheless, I'll add your 70" Sony to the list!

I think if they all use the same chips (which they now almost always do for the same model prefix/suffices), then, all 2013-year Sony 50/60/70" should be able to accept true 120Hz natively!

Sorry to disappoint, but I just double checked to make sure it's actually displaying 120hz and sadly it's not. It only shows 60hz.

 

Well....................................................................................crap.

Could be what I said about handshaking.

Could be that it is in fact taking 120 but using only 60.

Could be that it is in fact taking 120 and using 120 and only "knows" to display as high as 60 (trust me, we software guys take all kinds of liberties with assumptions)

Could be could be could be....

post #1054 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

Sorry to disappoint, but I just double checked to make sure it's actually displaying 120hz and sadly it's not. It only shows 60hz.
Can you run the Refresh Rate Multitool and confirm?
HardForum thread: Refresh Rate Multitool
Github: Refresh Rate Multitool

Sometimes the display's OSD is incorrect; and you're actually seeing all 120 frames.
This has happened before -- we've encounterd an HDTV that said "60Hz" but was actually displaying 120 unique, original frames per second.
Can you confirm via Multitool?


EDIT: bobbitybob confirmed, in a later post, that 720p works better:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM as well to verify.

Edited by Mark Rejhon - 6/15/13 at 8:19pm
post #1055 of 3997
Amazon now has the 70" for $2199 so I just pulled the trigger. They start collecting sales tax in nj in two weeks.
Very excited to get it!
post #1056 of 3997
just found out how to adjust sound/pic while in internet mode- read this on another sony site- while in internet mode
push options on remote and adjustments for pic & sound will pop up.
Edited by bgrpph - 6/13/13 at 9:09pm
post #1057 of 3997
I am trying to choose between the 70R550A Sony (which I have seen and loved at BB) and the Vizio M-Series 70 incher due to hit the shelves next week. From what I have read, they are very similar. But the Vizio boasts local dimming, while the Sony does not. Does anyone know of any other differences between these sets that I can use to help me decide when I try to see these side-by-side in the near future?
post #1058 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

I am trying to choose between the 70R550A Sony (which I have seen and loved at BB) and the Vizio M-Series 70 incher due to hit the shelves next week. From what I have read, they are very similar. But the Vizio boasts local dimming, while the Sony does not. Does anyone know of any other differences between these sets that I can use to help me decide when I try to see these side-by-side in the near future?

I'm in the same boat. My main concerns with the 70r550A is the off angle viewing (which seems to be endemic) and the dirty screen effect (which seems to be hit or miss). The M-series seems to have some DSE complaints and no off angle complaints (so far). That said, very few people have been able to test the 70" M-series since it has just come out. I think there are only one or two 70" owners on the M-series thread.
post #1059 of 3997
The Vizio will have the same off axis viewing problems.
post #1060 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by yao View Post

I'm in the same boat. My main concerns with the 70r550A is the off angle viewing (which seems to be endemic) and the dirty screen effect (which seems to be hit or miss). The M-series seems to have some DSE complaints and no off angle complaints (so far). That said, very few people have been able to test the 70" M-series since it has just come out. I think there are only one or two 70" owners on the M-series thread.

All mid tier TVs like the ones you have mentioned are never going to be 100% perfect. That being said, I would go with Sony because my 70r5550a is pretty nice, no complaints so far. But there will be off angle issues like the majority of Edge lit led TVs. The semi matte screen of the 550a helps with the reflections and minimizes the color dullness.
post #1061 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by jem2288 View Post

Did you find settings that eliminated the "grainy" appearance? My replacement set is somewhat better as far as clouding but I too notice a lot of "grain" especially during motion. I thought I had it somewhat better until I went downstairs where my old TV was on and immediately noticed the old set was much clearer.

I don't know. I spent a lot of time trying to change things during the NBA Finals game last night until I realized that what I was 'chasing' was in the broadcast. The broadcast would go from clear to 'noisy' continuously but I checked two other TVs in the house (one on basic cable and one on digital cable (HD)) and the signal was changing the same way. Switching to other stations afterwards and looking at things it seems to not be as bad as it was for that Mad Men episode. I did change my Scene Setting from the initial default (Auto?) to General. I don't know if the Auto setting was changing some things behind the scenes or not.

I haven't looked into the term but could the graininess I have seen be attributed to 'dirty screen effect'? Is that what it looks like? If so, is that a problem unit by unit (where replacement might be better) or is it symptomatic of all units made in this model?
post #1062 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai30 View Post

But there will be off angle issues like the majority of Edge lit led TVs.

 

No, like the majority of LCD tvs.  Not specifically "edge lit".

post #1063 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveendicott View Post

I don't know. I spent a lot of time trying to change things during the NBA Finals game last night until I realized that what I was 'chasing' was in the broadcast. The broadcast would go from clear to 'noisy' continuously but I checked two other TVs in the house (one on basic cable and one on digital cable (HD)) and the signal was changing the same way. Switching to other stations afterwards and looking at things it seems to not be as bad as it was for that Mad Men episode. I did change my Scene Setting from the initial default (Auto?) to General. I don't know if the Auto setting was changing some things behind the scenes or not.

I haven't looked into the term but could the graininess I have seen be attributed to 'dirty screen effect'? Is that what it looks like? If so, is that a problem unit by unit (where replacement might be better) or is it symptomatic of all units made in this model?

Most likely what you saw is an over compressed signal, making things look blocky. Cable and satellite are both bad with this.
post #1064 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveendicott View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem2288 View Post

Did you find settings that eliminated the "grainy" appearance? My replacement set is somewhat better as far as clouding but I too notice a lot of "grain" especially during motion. I thought I had it somewhat better until I went downstairs where my old TV was on and immediately noticed the old set was much clearer.

I don't know. I spent a lot of time trying to change things during the NBA Finals game last night until I realized that what I was 'chasing' was in the broadcast. The broadcast would go from clear to 'noisy' continuously but I checked two other TVs in the house (one on basic cable and one on digital cable (HD)) and the signal was changing the same way. Switching to other stations afterwards and looking at things it seems to not be as bad as it was for that Mad Men episode. I did change my Scene Setting from the initial default (Auto?) to General. I don't know if the Auto setting was changing some things behind the scenes or not.

I haven't looked into the term but could the graininess I have seen be attributed to 'dirty screen effect'? Is that what it looks like? If so, is that a problem unit by unit (where replacement might be better) or is it symptomatic of all units made in this model?

 

 

No, if I understand what you're saying, the image itself was coming in grainy.

 

If the camera panned, did the grainy scene move with it?  If so, then that's not DSE.  If it looked like no matter where the camera moved that the effect was latched to a specific spot on the screen itself (like dirt would be), then that is the Dirty Screen Effect, and is can be glaring as hell.

 

There are moments when I also wonder where the graininess is coming from.  I even saw it on a cartoon.

 

There are settings that seem to make it worse, or better, but my mind is spinning from trying to keep track of all this esoteric home grown settings-term-of-the-day Sony @#$% that I can't remember what did what.

 

That all said, compression effects can be confusingly subtle, and glaring as hell.  I'm not talking about pixelation either.  There were times when parts of the cartoon were totally clear, but a particular region that was a particular shade was in a kind of subtle snow or something.  Like the color it was trying to hit was right inbetween two available colors and it hovered in between.  Like dithering in a way.  Still not sure.


Edited by tgm1024 - 6/14/13 at 6:32am
post #1065 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Can you run the Refresh Rate Multitool and confirm?
HardForum thread: Refresh Rate Multitool
Github: Refresh Rate Multitool

Sometimes the display's OSD is incorrect; and you're actually seeing all 120 frames.
This has happened before -- we've encounterd an HDTV that said "60Hz" but was actually displaying 120 unique, original frames per second.
Can you confirm via Multitool?

Yep, that's the test I ran yesterday (and also confirmed with a camera). The OSD reports something like 1920x1080 120hz, but the panel itself is very obviously only putting out 60 frames. (panel is supposed to be 120hz, but I guess between the hdmi chip and the panel itself the signal gets converted down to 60hz)
post #1066 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Can you run the Refresh Rate Multitool and confirm?
HardForum thread: Refresh Rate Multitool
Github: Refresh Rate Multitool

Sometimes the display's OSD is incorrect; and you're actually seeing all 120 frames.
This has happened before -- we've encounterd an HDTV that said "60Hz" but was actually displaying 120 unique, original frames per second.
Can you confirm via Multitool?

Yep, that's the test I ran yesterday (and also confirmed with a camera). The OSD reports something like 1920x1080 120hz, but the panel itself is very obviously only putting out 60 frames. (panel is supposed to be 120hz, but I guess between the hdmi chip and the panel itself the signal gets converted down to 60hz)

 

That's what I was worried about.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there aren't several TVs fooling people the same way.

post #1067 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

That's what I was worried about.
I'm starting to wonder if there aren't several TVs fooling people the same way.
Correct, there were a few models that frameskipped. A different Sony model tested, frameskipped at 120Hz.
However, several models definitely output 120 frames per second.

The two listed Vizio models didn't frameskip at all, when tested with Multitool. Motion definitely looked more fluid, for example.

Based on this new information, I'm removing the Sony model from the list.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 6/14/13 at 8:35am
post #1068 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

Yep, that's the test I ran yesterday (and also confirmed with a camera). The OSD reports something like 1920x1080 120hz, but the panel itself is very obviously only putting out 60 frames. (panel is supposed to be 120hz, but I guess between the hdmi chip and the panel itself the signal gets converted down to 60hz)
Does the input lag improve, though?
Due to 120Hz, the 60Hz frames are delivered faster -- so you might still be getting less input lag anyway.

I wonder what happens if you try 1280x720p at 120Hz?
What if you use Reduced timings or other sizes of porches?
Does it still frameskip?
post #1069 of 3997
FYI, 50" at frys for $799

add it to the cart to see price

http://www.frys.com/product/7665497
post #1070 of 3997
How come at daytime the black colors are really deep (black bars) but at night time when there's hardly any light, the shade of black isn't as deep or sharp? I can see the slight light bleed and clouding at night time. Any suggestions in the adjustment settings.
post #1071 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Does the input lag improve, though?
Due to 120Hz, the 60Hz frames are delivered faster -- so you might still be getting less input lag anyway.

I wonder what happens if you try 1280x720p at 120Hz?
What if you use Reduced timings or other sizes of porches?
Does it still frameskip?

Input lag feels the same to me between 120hz and 60hz game mode. I don't think I have a way to measure this. Displaylag.com measured game mode at 39ms, so best case scenario it would still be ~31ms. I'm not sure I'd be able to notice that kinda difference if it exists.

I'll play around with it and try 720p over the weekend. Any good docs on the timings/porches stuff? Currently I have no idea what I should be doing with that. Also I'm using a rather old dvi to hdmi cable right now, I'll switch that out with a new hdmi cable just in case.

120hz is still a benefit though if you like vsync and don't have a thousand dollars worth of gpu due to the 60 to 40 instead of 60 to 30 fps drop.
post #1072 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

I'll play around with it and try 720p over the weekend. Any good docs on the timings/porches stuff? Currently I have no idea what I should be doing with that. Also I'm using a rather old dvi to hdmi cable right now, I'll switch that out with a new hdmi cable just in case.
A direct HDMI to HDMI cable is always best, directly from the HDMI port of your graphics card. That's where the 120Hz overclocking successes occur. Adaptors often cause problems, since 1080p@120Hz requires dual-link DVI, and adaptors don't merge both channels of dual-link DVI to a single HDMI link.

As for documents on porches, the video timings science is a bit hard to comprehend for people new to it. I'll consider manual editing of numbers beyond the scope of this post. That said, there are often settings in various Custom Resolution Utilities (e.g. nVidia Custom Resolution, PowerStrip, ToastyX CRU, etc) such as "Auto", "Reduced", "VESA GTF", and other timing computation formulas. The easiest way is to try and change the selector list -- this modifies the formula used to calculate the timings of the resolution by changing that one listbox, between three or four different settings. Sometimes only one of the settings work. But since you are successfully displaying an image, this is not likely to help.

Try focussing on testing 720p@120Hz and testing direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 6/14/13 at 10:11am
post #1073 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winn75 View Post

How come at daytime the black colors are really deep (black bars) but at night time when there's hardly any light, the shade of black isn't as deep or sharp? I can see the slight light bleed and clouding at night time. Any suggestions in the adjustment settings.

 

Optical effect.  Your eyes' irises are contracting during the brighter light.  When it's night time out, they open up (dilate) and you can see finer shades of gray, even with the light of the TV "blinding" them.

post #1074 of 3997
Have had "Vizio E701i-A3" for two weeks now. Not happy with it. Great picture, but too many problems with the internet connection and Netflix. Tired of it and doing an Amazon return this weekend.

I honestly do not need 3D or even a smart tv as I can always pick up a PS3 for my app access. What I absolutely want is a 70 inch, 1080p, LCD, LED, quality tv from any of the following manufacturers and I'm looking for suggestions: Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, JVC. Obviously I'm strongly considering this Sony, but don't care if it does or doesn't have 3D or DirectTv connectivity whatsoever. At least 70 inch is a must though.

Thanks.

And for those wonderring why I'm returning the Vizio if I don't care about it being Smart; it's because it is failing miserably at something it is supposed to do. That makes me VERY leery about the quality and the smart move says to dump it. You can check my posts on that thread and you'll see all the issues I've had. A shame too because the picture is very acceptable.
post #1075 of 3997
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp06011999 View Post

Have had "Vizio E701i-A3" for two weeks now. Not happy with it. Great picture, but too many problems with the internet connection and Netflix. Tired of it and doing an Amazon return this weekend.

I honestly do not need 3D or even a smart tv as I can always pick up a PS3 for my app access. What I absolutely want is a 70 inch, 1080p, LCD, LED, quality tv from any of the following manufacturers and I'm looking for suggestions: Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, JVC. Obviously I'm strongly considering this Sony, but don't care if it does or doesn't have 3D or DirectTv connectivity whatsoever. At least 70 inch is a must though.

Thanks.

And for those wonderring why I'm returning the Vizio if I don't care about it being Smart; it's because it is failing miserably at something it is supposed to do. That makes me VERY leery about the quality and the smart move says to dump it. You can check my posts on that thread and you'll see all the issues I've had. A shame too because the picture is very acceptable.

 

Buy the Sony.  If you have the "blobs", return it.  Otherwise, chances are you'll like it plenty.

post #1076 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp06011999 View Post

Have had "Vizio E701i-A3" for two weeks now. Not happy with it. Great picture, but too many problems with the internet connection and Netflix. Tired of it and doing an Amazon return this weekend.

I honestly do not need 3D or even a smart tv as I can always pick up a PS3 for my app access. What I absolutely want is a 70 inch, 1080p, LCD, LED, quality tv from any of the following manufacturers and I'm looking for suggestions: Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, JVC. Obviously I'm strongly considering this Sony, but don't care if it does or doesn't have 3D or DirectTv connectivity whatsoever. At least 70 inch is a must though.

Thanks.

And for those wonderring why I'm returning the Vizio if I don't care about it being Smart; it's because it is failing miserably at something it is supposed to do. That makes me VERY leery about the quality and the smart move says to dump it. You can check my posts on that thread and you'll see all the issues I've had. A shame too because the picture is very acceptable.

is the internet connection and netflix an issue for other vizio owners as well? If it's not, might as well return it and get a replacement.

even with the sony or any tv, sometimes you just get a lemon and need to switch it out till you get a good one.
post #1077 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

is the internet connection and netflix an issue for other vizio owners as well? If it's not, might as well return it and get a replacement.

even with the sony or any tv, sometimes you just get a lemon and need to switch it out till you get a good one.

Yea, that's my concern. I don't know to trust the Vizio now thinking it's a quality issue of that brand or chalk it up to "more technology = more problems".

While I "believe" Sony to have a good name, I don't know. Perhaps they'll have an issue too. My Mitsubishi projector from a few years ago was as problematic as they come. But I was forced to deal with factory replacements since it was after 30 days and luckily I haven't had an issue after the third replacement. Ouch.

Maybe I'm just asking too much to expect to get something that does what it's supposed to. I mean, it's not like the money I paid suddenly quit being money. So I get frustrated when what you pay for isn't what you got. So what to do....

I guess the simple question is, "Is Sony a better name than Vizio?"
post #1078 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

A direct HDMI to HDMI cable is always best, directly from the HDMI port of your graphics card. That's where the 120Hz overclocking successes occur. Adaptors often cause problems, since 1080p@120Hz requires dual-link DVI, and adaptors don't merge both channels of dual-link DVI to a single HDMI link.

Try focussing on testing 720p@120Hz and testing direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection.

720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM as well to verify.

So I think it must be the cable then (it's monoprice and they only carry single link of this type) and 1080p@120hz could be possible too. Problem is my card only has mini hdmi, and the cable I got is regular, so I can't test it until I get the right cable. Was going to buy a new graphics card anyways, so I'll report back next week sometime. Also going to test the Zalman edid hack for 3d vision and I got a new colorimeter coming in next week as well to set this thing up perfect.
post #1079 of 3997
So it looks like the soonest I'll get the 70" set is either late june or early july. The 550a. I've never had a 3d tv, I've done all kinds of research. So, looks like the sony is the best bang for the buck. Had the M-Series vizio panded out, I might have gone that route. Can anyone tell me about the 2d conversion. Is it any good at all. Or is that something I'm buying that is no good at all....
Thanks again.
post #1080 of 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

So it looks like the soonest I'll get the 70" set is either late june or early july. The 550a. I've never had a 3d tv, I've done all kinds of research. So, looks like the sony is the best bang for the buck. Had the M-Series vizio panded out, I might have gone that route. Can anyone tell me about the 2d conversion. Is it any good at all. Or is that something I'm buying that is no good at all....
Thanks again.

the 3d upconversion works but it's not eye popping or anything. probably just like any 2d upconversion to 3d.
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