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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 43

post #1261 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

When I first hooked my 70" up it auto put the scene into graphics with everything in the picture menu greyed out. Took me probably 10 minutes to finally find the scene select in the separate options menu. The terrible menus, no cms and horrible docs are reason enough for me not to buy a Sony again. I checked out Samsung's manual on their current lcd line and they put 10 point gamma in a $900 tv, and even their cheapest stuff has full rgb controls. Sony seems to be more interested in emulating Chinese junk... Shame, because the actual hardware is excellent.
I agree that for some reason Sony decided not to give us very good tweakability functions. I don't think that Sony includes cms on it's flagship models either. On the flip side however, I would buy Sony again because with what few adjustments they do include the PQ can be dialed in to a high level of acceptability. Bottom line, I like the PQ regardless of how I'm allowed to get to it.
post #1262 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

I absolutely agree that Cinema as well as the other "Scene Select" modes should be co-located with Vivid/Standard and Custom. It makes finding the desired selection that much more difficult.

As an experiment I did put the same values into Custom and Cinema. They did not appear the same to me. Cinema seemed to maybe have a bit more saturation and appeared to be a bit richer to the eye. I need to get time to pull the meter out and compare readings to see for sure.

At any rate since there is really no explanation of Scene Select in the operators manual there are probably many who are not aware of the other picture modes available. When I first saw the R550 in an HHGregg and asked the salesman what picture mode it was in, he could only find the Vivid/Standard/Custom.

I believe what you are seeing is the effect of Adv. Contrast Enhancer. Cinema mode locks out the Advanced Settings and I'm pretty sure it leaves ACE on the medium setting.
post #1263 of 3972
Thanks. Yeah I watched Life of Pi and the 3d is very clear but did not have the pop that I was looking for. Do the 70" owners like their tv? I am thinking of making a switch from my vizio to the sony. Also is it a 240mhz set or 120? also does anyone know how may mls this tv has?
Thanks!
post #1264 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by airecken View Post

Here's the latest attempt. ftL is set to 71. I think it actually looks much better than the prior two settings, while preserving dark details and more accurate color. Again this is calibrated to REC709 standard.

Settings:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 7
Picture: Max
Brightness: 54
Color: 51
Hue: R1
Sharpness: 15 (anything above min causes moire artifact, but I think 15 looks a little better)
Color Temperature: Warm
Noise/Mpeg Noise: Off
Motionflow/CineMotion: Up to your personal preference or source material. (I like Motionflow High/CineMotion Auto 2 for standard material).
Advanced Settings: All Off, Gamma -1

If you try this setting out, please let me know what you think.

VERY nice! I like this a lot. Works with a variety of different scenes. smile.gif

Also, no need to enable bright white... so disregard my previous 2c with these settings.
post #1265 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

aireckn,

Have you tried Cinema for dialing in your set? I compared Identical settings on Auto/General and Cinema and found the Cinema settings a bit more saturated and pleasing to my eye as compared to Auto or General. I have to say that Sony missed the boat on documentation of the Scene Select feature in the Manual.

I've played around with the scene settings and I have no idea what they do. As others have mentioned there's no documentation anywhere I can find that explains the differences. I just leave it the general setting and don't bother with changing it since I'm not sure what it's doing. Maybe if I get time I can take some measurements with each setting to see what's going on.

I really wish we could start a petition to get Sony to update the color controls on this TV with a new firmware for this TV. I really think that with a better color control system, this TV can be calibrated to be really great. Maybe we can all send an email to the office of the CEO and complain directly. I doubt any of the normal channels would lead to anything other than reading from a scripted book...

However, I'm really happy with the current settings I recently posted and I doubt I'll be doing much more tweaking. Watched clips of Life of Pi, 5th Element, Avatar, Star Trek, and Blade Runner and I think the custom settings provide better skin tone reproduction and dark detail compared to the standard settings.

Sharpness I also think looks much better on 15 than min when watching movies. While it's true that there's detectable artifact on sharpness charts starting at a Sharpness of 1, but I don't ever notice artifact on real media I'm watching with Sharpness set on 15.
Edited by airecken - 6/20/13 at 2:49pm
post #1266 of 3972
I agree that the menus are poorly laid out. I like the PQ, but the software is just clunky and bad in general. Not only are 'Picture' and 'Scene' different, but I see no rhyme or reason for dividing things up into 'Internet Streaming' (or whatever it is) on the one hand, and 'Internet Applications' on the other. (Sorry; away from TV right now).
post #1267 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.J.R.#4 View Post

I agree that the menus are poorly laid out. I like the PQ, but the software is just clunky and bad in general. Not only are 'Picture' and 'Scene' different, but I see no rhyme or reason for dividing things up into 'Internet Streaming' (or whatever it is) on the one hand, and 'Internet Applications' on the other. (Sorry; away from TV right now).

It is almost like they assigned several teams different parts of the menu trees to develop but did not allow them to collaberate or coordinate efforts.
post #1268 of 3972
My 70" loses it's wifi connection every time I turn it off. I re-set it and it's fine. When the TV is connected my lap top is gone. Weird. Belkin N+ router.
post #1269 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

My 70" loses it's wifi connection every time I turn it off. I re-set it and it's fine. When the TV is connected my lap top is gone. Weird. Belkin N+ router.

Are you on the latest firmware/software update? That is strange, indeed.
post #1270 of 3972
I'm guessing it's the router. Funny that my 550 had it's first update this morning. It made no difference in this problem. I have no idea what the update did. I bought this Belkin router a couple of years ago because the reviews were so good. Tonight I checked it out on Amazon and it's rated a whopping 1.5 stars. Bummer. I suppose I should check for an Belkin firmware/software updates. I assumed you were talking about the Sony.
post #1271 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Good news!
I'll re-add the TV back to this page:
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO:
True 120Hz from PC to TV


When you re-test 1080p@120Hz, make sure it's direct HDMI-to-HDMI. No adaptors, no DVI, no nothing. Just direct HDMI output from computer, to HDMI input of television, bypass receiver. That's often the only way to get true 120Hz from PC to TV in many situations. Also, you may need to replace your graphics card if MicroHDMI doesn't work.

Glad that 720p @ 120Hz is working perfectly from the computer, at least!

Thanks, Mark!

1080p @ 120Hz (297 MHz pixel clock) is working on my 70" via HDMI to HDMI from my PC with a NVIDIA GTX 780.
post #1272 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

My 70" loses it's wifi connection every time I turn it off. I re-set it and it's fine. When the TV is connected my lap top is gone. Weird. Belkin N+ router.

 

 

That's absolutely not your TV's fault.  In fact, it *couldn't* be even if it were designed by Dr. Evil.  Well, actually that's an overstatement but I'm not getting into it.

 

The way routers almost always works (<---this "almost" qualifier is here because you can config a router a million ways) is in one of two ways:

 

1. a device on power on ASKS the router for an IP to use (using something on the router called DHCP).  The router then gives it an available slot.  Make sure you have available IPs.  A lot of things in your home are using wifi these days!

 

2. a device is preconfigured to NOT ask the router and establish itself as a certain "static" ip.  The router then must be configured to know about this ahead of time so it doesn't assign that number to someone else asking for one.  Your TV by default is NOT set up for that.

 

Example pitfalls:

Common Pitfall A

If your PC doesn't use DHCP and is locked at 192.168.1.2 (say), and 192.168.1.2 is the IP the router assigns to the TV, then the PC will not be able to connect anylonger.  In this case either make the PC use DHCP, or tell the router to NOT put the PC's 192.168.1.2 into the IP pool.  Your router will be able to have addresses "left alone" for that reason.  Your PC might be configured as a static IP to facilitate its use as a server, but there's a lot of things that could be going on.

 

Common Pitfall B

If your PC IS using DHCP, then it's possible that your router has no available slots left after your TV showed up.  Go into the router and enlarge it.  You'll often see this under the DHCP section as "starting" and "ending" addresses.  Mine, for instance, allows for 30 devices to connect:

 

starting: 192.168.1.5

ending: 192.168.1.34

 

With two addresses left alone for my two PCs that I want to have static

 

desktop: 192.168.1.3
laptop: 192.168.1.4

 

Outside of this, I'd have to know more about your setup.


Edited by tgm1024 - 6/21/13 at 6:59am
post #1273 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herro RaRa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Good news!
I'll re-add the TV back to this page:
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO:
True 120Hz from PC to TV


When you re-test 1080p@120Hz, make sure it's direct HDMI-to-HDMI. No adaptors, no DVI, no nothing. Just direct HDMI output from computer, to HDMI input of television, bypass receiver. That's often the only way to get true 120Hz from PC to TV in many situations. Also, you may need to replace your graphics card if MicroHDMI doesn't work.

Glad that 720p @ 120Hz is working perfectly from the computer, at least!

Thanks, Mark!

1080p @ 120Hz (297 MHz pixel clock) is working on my 70" via HDMI to HDMI from my PC with a NVIDIA GTX 780.

 

Did you verify that it's not discarding frames, or are you just going by what the TV says?

post #1274 of 3972
So got a ColorMunki Display yesterday and did some testing. Disclaimer: This is all just my opinion, ymmv. 70r550a

My results are similar to Airecken's.

Settings used: Game/Custom, Backlight 5, Picture MAX, Brightness 50, Color 50, Warm, Gamma 0, all processing gimmicks off.

White Balance:

Warm: 6980 (Big error)
Neutral: 10900 (Whoa! [bad whoa])
Cold: 11850 (Seriously Sony?)

Gamma, all around fantastic:

0 = 2.17
-1 = 2.28
-2 = 2.38

Color:

Avg Delta E: 2.06 (Nice!)
Max Delta E: 7.60 (Primary Red, not the end of the world, but the error is almost entirely in Hue at almost 16 delta)

Grey scale is great, even the worst was below 2 there iirc. Red is the worst unfortunately and Blue is ok at 5 (evenly split Chroma and Hue), Green is good at 3.

Black: 0.045 cd/m2 (Is there an LCD that can beat this withouth local dimming? Blacks are great)
White: 178 cd/m2

Now let's see what happens in some different modes, same settings as above unless otherwise noted:

Custom to Standard:

Gamma: 2.17 -> 2.06 (ugh)
Avg Delta E: 2.06 -> 2.95 (ugh)

Game to Cinema:

Gamma: 2.17 -> 2.36 (appropriate)
Avg Delta E: 2.06 -> 2.77 (eh)

Game to General:

Identical to Game, but with input lag.

I didn't have enough time yet to see if the primaries can be fixed a bit. Picture 80 did help out the red somewhat (dropping 0.5), so maybe a combo of picture and hue will get it done without murdering the rest of it.

Calibrated on the PC side the picture is amazing. I'm getting 6480K, 2.2 gamma and 0.36 Avg Delta E, with worst color at 1.5. Fantastic panel, just bad software holding it back.

Also, I'll be able to confirm 120hz soon, GTX 780 is being delivered tonight, so should have results after the weekend. Also edid hack for 3D Vision works perfectly, just have to swap the eyes via regedit. (I used an Acer HR274H edid from 3dvision-blog.com, the zalman one messed up all resolutions other than 1080p)
post #1275 of 3972
The Sony 70R550A holds up very well considering the lack of Greyscale or CMS adjustments...

R550Gamma.jpg 30k .jpg file

Greyscale.jpg 38k .jpg file

R550Color.jpg 31k .jpg file

Colortemp.jpg 46k .jpg file
post #1276 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


That's absolutely not your TV's fault.  In fact, it *couldn't* be even if it were designed by Dr. Evil.  Well, actually that's an overstatement but I'm not getting into it.

The way routers almost always works (<---this "almost" qualifier is here because you can config a router a million ways) is in one of two ways:

1. a device on power on ASKS the router for an IP to use (using something on the router called DHCP).  The router then gives it an available slot.  Make sure you have available IPs.  A lot of things in your home are using wifi these days!

2. a device is preconfigured to NOT ask the router and establish itself as a certain "static" ip.  The router then must be configured to know about this ahead of time so it doesn't assign that number to someone else asking for one.  Your TV by default is NOT set up for that.

Example pitfalls:

Common Pitfall A



If your PC doesn't use DHCP and is locked at 192.168.1.2 (say), and 192.168.1.2 is the IP the router assigns to the TV, then the PC will not be able to connect anylonger.  In this case either make the PC use DHCP, or tell the router to NOT put the PC's 192.168.1.2 into the IP pool.  Your router will be able to have addresses "left alone" for that reason.  Your PC might be configured as a static IP to facilitate its use as a server, but there's a lot of things that could be going on.

Common Pitfall B



If your PC IS using DHCP, then it's possible that your router has no available slots left after your TV showed up.  Go into the router and enlarge it.  You'll often see this under the DHCP section as "starting" and "ending" addresses.  Mine, for instance, allows for 30 devices to connect:
Code:
starting: 192.168.1.[B]5[/B]ending: 192.168.1.[B]34[/B]

With two addresses left alone for my two PCs that I want to have static
Code:
desktop: 192.168.1.[B]3[/B]laptop: 192.168.1.[B]4[/B]

Outside of this, I'd have to know more about your setup.
Thank you very much. I wish I understood what you're talking about with DHCP and available IP's and router configurations. In our (old people) case we just buy a router that has good reviews and plug it in. My wife does whatever the instructions say to do to hook it up. I guess I just expect everything to work the way I think it should work. I'm usually wrong. Ha. This router is supposed to be a good one from Belkin (F5D8235-4v1). Does the model number tell us anything, like does the 4 mean 4 devices? It's funny but when I researched router options this one was well regarded. Now when I look at reviews on Amazon it's rated 1.5 stars. One of the worst rating on there.
post #1277 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Thank you very much. I wish I understood what you're talking about with DHCP and available IP's and router configurations. In our (old people) case we just buy a router that has good reviews and plug it in. My wife does whatever the instructions say to do to hook it up. I guess I just expect everything to work the way I think it should work. I'm usually wrong. Ha. This router is supposed to be a good one from Belkin (F5D8235-4v1). Does the model number tell us anything, like does the 4 mean 4 devices? It's funny but when I researched router options this one was well regarded. Now when I look at reviews on Amazon it's rated 1.5 stars. One of the worst rating on there.

For what it's worth I had the same problem the other day. I don't use the internet functionality, except for checking for updates. I tried to check yesterday and didn't connect until I went through the wifi setup again. All info was already there and basically just had to hit ok a bunch of times and it went back to normal. I have a whole bunch of devices on my wifi, never had a problem with any, so it's probably just Sony being Sony... I got a higher end Netgear router which imo are some of the best.
post #1278 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

The Sony 70R550A holds up very well considering the lack of Greyscale or CMS adjustments...

Yea, I wouldn't complain if I got those results (and I'm not really complaining either, the 6980K I'm getting is easy enough to get used to without a reference around), but I guess every tv can deviate, which is why a cms should be included. Takes the russian roulette out of things.
post #1279 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

For what it's worth I had the same problem the other day. I don't use the internet functionality, except for checking for updates. I tried to check yesterday and didn't connect until I went through the wifi setup again. All info was already there and basically just had to hit ok a bunch of times and it went back to normal. I have a whole bunch of devices on my wifi, never had a problem with any, so it's probably just Sony being Sony... I got a higher end Netgear router which imo are some of the best.
I sure hope it's not Sony being Sony. When I set up the Sony and press all of the OK buttons it connects perfectly. The problem is I then my lap top has lost it's connection which includes my tablet also losing it's connection. If I then go through the steps to connect my lap top it connects fine along with my tablet, but the Sony is no longer connected. I've actually sat there with my lap top connected and in my lap. As soon as go through the steps to connect the Sony and press all the OK buttons my lap top instantly loses it's connection. My Belkin has an installation disc (somewhere) and my wife and I will try and do what TGM1024 suggests. Key word here is try. Thanks for your input.
post #1280 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob View Post

Yea, I wouldn't complain if I got those results (and I'm not really complaining either, the 6980K I'm getting is easy enough to get used to without a reference around), but I guess every tv can deviate, which is why a cms should be included. Takes the russian roulette out of things.

I suppose one could add a Lumigen Mini or DVDO Iscan Duo in the chain to take care of a 10 point Greyscale and CMS. However for the difference gained, I am not sure it would be worth the price...

I do agree that Greyscale (at least 2 point) and a CMS should be included in the product.
post #1281 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I sure hope it's not Sony being Sony. When I set up the Sony and press all of the OK buttons it connects perfectly. The problem is I then my lap top has lost it's connection which includes my tablet also losing it's connection. If I then go through the steps to connect my lap top it connects fine along with my tablet, but the Sony is no longer connected. I've actually sat there with my lap top connected and in my lap. As soon as go through the steps to connect the Sony and press all the OK buttons my lap top instantly loses it's connection. My Belkin has an installation disc (somewhere) and my wife and I will try and do what TGM1024 suggests. Key word here is try. Thanks for your input.

The router could be assigning the same ip address to the devices effectively kicking one off (this should never happen unless you manually assign ips, the router should be smart enough to figure it all out automatically). I remember a friend having a Belkin and it was pretty awful needing to be restarted often. You might be better off getting a new router like a netgear wndr3700. Something in that price range will usually be solid. Also in my case I live in a high rise and I have about 20 other networks causing interference, so that may have kicked it off for me. iirc sadly the Sony doesn't support 5ghz so I couldn't connect to that network where I have no interference at all.
post #1282 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herro RaRa View Post

Thanks, Mark!

1080p @ 120Hz (297 MHz pixel clock) is working on my 70" via HDMI to HDMI from my PC with a NVIDIA GTX 780.

That's awesome!!!! How does it look? Do you notice any issues with picture quality or other possible adverse side effects with 1080p@120Hz on this tv?
post #1283 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Thank you very much. I wish I understood what you're talking about with DHCP and available IP's and router configurations. In our (old people) case we just buy a router that has good reviews and plug it in. My wife does whatever the instructions say to do to hook it up. I guess I just expect everything to work the way I think it should work. I'm usually wrong. Ha. This router is supposed to be a good one from Belkin (F5D8235-4v1). Does the model number tell us anything, like does the 4 mean 4 devices? It's funny but when I researched router options this one was well regarded. Now when I look at reviews on Amazon it's rated 1.5 stars. One of the worst rating on there.

 

About the get a new router thing: In almost every case I've ever dealt with regarding network trouble, it's not been the router's "fault", but the way it was initially configured.  This smells like a configuration thing to me.

 

Just as an aside regarding Amazon, and any other set of reviews: always sort by "newest" and not by "most helpful".  The "most helpful" thing is stupid and misleading.  The top most helpful are what's always read and hence most likely to continually get votes.  And even if it weren't misleading in that regard, you STILL want a view of the device as time goes on because hardware revisions & firmware change.  BTW, this is critically important for TVs as well!!!!!  Sort by date please.

 

Regarding your router, do you have a techie in the family to help?  If not, then do you know how to log into your router's admin page (to configure it)?

post #1284 of 3972
did anyone try any android/iphone remote app to control this tv through wifi? I tried the sony "Remote Media" app for android but it did not work. Thanks.
post #1285 of 3972
I tried the TV Sideview App by Sony for iPad and does not work yet either. I think they need to update the device compatibility list on the app.
post #1286 of 3972
For the 3d depth, which one gives the most pop. +2 +1 0 -1 -2 is it the plus 2?
post #1287 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

About the get a new router thing: In almost every case I've ever dealt with regarding network trouble, it's not been the router's "fault", but the way it was initially configured.  This smells like a configuration thing to me.

Just as an aside regarding Amazon, and any other set of reviews: always sort by "newest" and not by "most helpful".  The "most helpful" thing is stupid and misleading.  The top most helpful are what's always read and hence most likely to continually get votes.  And even if it weren't misleading in that regard, you STILL want a view of the device as time goes on because hardware revisions & firmware change.  BTW, this is critically important for TVs as well!!!!!  Sort by date please.

Regarding your router, do you have a techie in the family to help?  If not, then do you know how to log into your router's admin page (to configure it)?
No techies. I'm afraid I do not know how log into my routers admin page. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Humor.
post #1288 of 3972
Can someone please comment on what settings to use to reduce motion blur for sports? I only had an hour or so to play with my new 70R55A last night before I had to leave on another trip. My brief first impressions were good. Using the settings posted above, I was happy with the picture. I have no light bleed, clouding, flashlighting, etc. I admit I was very surprised at the uniformity of my screen. However, I was a bit disappointed with two issues. First, the off angle picture deteriorates very quickly as you move from center. I am not a true videophile, but even I was surprised at how quickly the picture worsened with each step to the side of center. The second issue is motion blur. I was watching a replay of an NFL game on the NFL network, and the blur was quite noticeable. Since the TV will be used for Sports and movies, I am concerned this tv may not be what I want. I know it is native 120hz, and a lot depends on the source, but I would appreciate settings I can try when I return from my trip next week.
Edited by fr8doggr - 6/21/13 at 3:50pm
post #1289 of 3972
Does this TV has a Skype app?
post #1290 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeE View Post

Does this TV has a Skype app?

No Skype App on this one.
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