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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 62

post #1831 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


Andy, for standard DSE, or the blobs?  Do you have a before and after picture?
My first attempt was while watching a Buffy re-run. The black bars on the side were very uneven with light areas in the corners and on both sides.

 

Ok, again.  This isn't related to the blobs problem.  It's not going to hurt to do the rubbing trick, but the blobs seem to be possible even on screens with unified/even blacks.  They're not related, and I'm looking for anyone who has actually cured or helped a blob situation.  We need a more "techno-savvy" term for this thing.  Blob just doesn't quite cut it, even if it is 100% descriptive.

 

PS (Off Topic) regarding Buffy. (Click to show)

I was always a closet Buffy fan.  But the storyline and series with the most promise to me was Angel.  If only he had been written just a little better.  A vampire who regained his soul and is forever tormented by it?  That's inspired, but every Angel episode always did two things to me: 1. make me cringe, and 2. make me glad I saw it.  I kept wondering what would happen if Joss Wedon had a chance to work for a premium network making a series with no sensorship limitations, and (of course) he did: Spartacus on Starz.

 

He must've been like a kid in a candy shop.


Edited by tgm1024 - 7/30/13 at 1:55pm
post #1832 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, again.  This isn't related to the blobs problem.  It's not going to hurt to do the rubbing trick, but the blobs seem to be possible even on screens with unified/even blacks.  They're not related, and I'm looking for anyone who has actually cured or helped a blob situation.  We need a more "techno-savvy" term for this thing.  Blob just doesn't quite cut it, even if it is 100% descriptive.
PS (Off Topic) regarding Buffy. (Click to show)
I was always a closet Buffy fan.  But the storyline and series with the most promise to me was Angel.  If only he had been written just a little better.  A vampire who regained his soul and is forever tormented by it?  That's inspired, but every Angel episode always did two things to me: 1. make me cringe, and 2. make me glad I saw it.  I kept wondering what would happen if Joss Wedon had a chance to work for a premium network making a series with no sensorship limitations, and (of course) he did: Spartacus on Starz.

He must've been like a kid in a candy shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, again.  This isn't related to the blobs problem.  It's not going to hurt to do the rubbing trick, but the blobs seem to be possible even on screens with unified/even blacks.  They're not related, and I'm looking for anyone who has actually cured or helped a blob situation.  We need a more "techno-savvy" term for this thing.  Blob just doesn't quite cut it, even if it is 100% descriptive.
PS (Off Topic) regarding Buffy. (Click to show)
I was always a closet Buffy fan.  But the storyline and series with the most promise to me was Angel.  If only he had been written just a little better.  A vampire who regained his soul and is forever tormented by it?  That's inspired, but every Angel episode always did two things to me: 1. make me cringe, and 2. make me glad I saw it.  I kept wondering what would happen if Joss Wedon had a chance to work for a premium network making a series with no sensorship limitations, and (of course) he did: Spartacus on Starz.

He must've been like a kid in a candy shop.

How about "Assymetrical Solid Slabs" ? Or ASS for short.
post #1833 of 3972
I just got done watching the 3D version of the new G.I. Joe release. All I can say is wow. The Sony 70" in passive 3D is breathtaking. The more I watch the 550 the more I am glad we made this choice and purchase.
post #1834 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

No, that's nonsense, ABSOLUTELY return it.  Whether or not this is technically DSE (no, there is no hard and fast industry definition for it confining it to bands), those blobs are still incredibly prominent and will show up and forever annoy you.  They're common enough with this set that people have just been referring to it as "the blobs".

Well I went ahead and exchanged this at Best Buy today, and unfortunately the exact same problem exists, only this time the "blob" is on the left side of the screen... At first I didn't notice the "blobs", but after a few seconds once my eyes adjusted to the screen it was clear as day... very disappointed to say the least....

One thing about the first set aside from the "blob", the PQ and colour was amazing.... on the exchanged set, not only is the blob present, but the colours seem very saturated even with the same settings as the last set... I just cant get it to look as amazing as the first set, I definitely notice its "different"....

Definitely exchanging for a third set... third times a charm grrrr
Edited by Jakked - 7/30/13 at 8:16pm
post #1835 of 3972
I'd try massaging it out first. It seems like a lot less trouble if it does in fact work.
post #1836 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, again.  This isn't related to the blobs problem.  It's not going to hurt to do the rubbing trick, but the blobs seem to be possible even on screens with unified/even blacks.  They're not related, and I'm looking for anyone who has actually cured or helped a blob situation.  We need a more "techno-savvy" term for this thing.  Blob just doesn't quite cut it, even if it is 100% descriptive.

I'm going to try this, and photograph the progress. I have only one noticeable defect, and I'd rather try to cure it than get another TV that's even worse than the first one.
post #1837 of 3972
forgot to mention this set also suffers some bad backlight bleeding... the first set didn't show any backlight bleeding..

does anyone actually have a perfect set? are some just worse than others? I'll return it to Best Buy 100 times if I have to until I get a perfect tv
post #1838 of 3972
I did try massaging out the blobs on the first set, it actually seemed to make the blobs more visible... I only did it for a few minutes though...
post #1839 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakked View Post

forgot to mention this set also suffers some bad backlight bleeding... the first set didn't show any backlight bleeding..

does anyone actually have a perfect set? are some just worse than others? I'll return it to Best Buy 100 times if I have to until I get a perfect tv

Mine is 95% even. 5% has a tinge of slight bleed near the edges. This is only apparent in a dark room with a completely black scene, so for us it's okay. Otherwise, the blacks continue to impress me.
post #1840 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by setguillaume View Post

I'm going to try this, and photograph the progress. I have only one noticeable defect, and I'd rather try to cure it than get another TV that's even worse than the first one.

I say keep returning it until your happy. Paying $1500+ for a tv and feeling you have to live with a defect is rediculous ! I returned 3 tvs in the past 3weeks because of obvious defects, manufacturers need to pay for making these overpriced poorly made turds. Maybe if they get enough of them back they'll start to focus on quality instead of how many useless apps they can cram into their sets, and how skinny they can make them.
post #1841 of 3972
Greetings, I thought I'd introduce myself to this thread. I have been following along for about a month now and today I pulled the trigger on the 70 incher. It will be delivered on Thursday. It seems most here get a decent set, but there are some with quality issues. Keeping my fingers crossed for a good one. If I have to I will keep returning it.

I can't wait for this weekend to get it setup and spend some time playing with it. Passive 3D is something I am looking forward to.
post #1842 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

I say keep returning it until your happy. Paying $1500+ for a tv and feeling you have to live with a defect is rediculous ! I returned 3 tvs in the past 3weeks because of obvious defects, manufacturers need to pay for making these overpriced poorly made turds. Maybe if they get enough of them back they'll start to focus on quality instead of how many useless apps they can cram into their sets, and how skinny they can make them.

haha You forget that Micro$oft conditioned us all for years now to do just that, accept things that don't quite work right. They learned it from the govment. wink.gif

No, rarely do things work as promised...and that even includes people. Folks, if electronics were made bug free before going to market then updates wouldn't be so commonplace.
So while I agree that it is BS, it is far from abnormal to accept a percentage of what you paid for. We do it daily.
post #1843 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp06011999 View Post

haha You forget that Micro$oft conditioned us all for years now to do just that, accept things that don't quite work right. They learned it from the govment. wink.gif

No, rarely do things work as promised...and that even includes people. Folks, if electronics were made bug free before going to market then updates wouldn't be so commonplace.
So while I agree that it is BS, it is far from abnormal to accept a percentage of what you paid for. We do it daily.

The number of people that have had similar experiences as I have ( multiple defective TV's, 3 out of 3 for me) is insane ! The beauty of it is, we don't have to settle for half the product we thought we were buying, we need to return this crap. Those that accept half-ass products with big price tags are only encouraging companies to rush out the next thinner, "smarter" turd.

Honestly, I'm not some ultra picky guy, but when I spend $1500+ on a TV, I expect it to not have quality issues the second I unbox it and first plug it in.
post #1844 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakked View Post

forgot to mention this set also suffers some bad backlight bleeding... the first set didn't show any backlight bleeding..

does anyone actually have a perfect set? are some just worse than others? I'll return it to Best Buy 100 times if I have to until I get a perfect tv

My 70" is perfect. Have not noticed any issues at all
post #1845 of 3972
Hey sorry to jump in half way with this, but I really need help with setting up the network on this set.
I have the 70" and the sony support guys are clueless.
I can get the tv to connect to the internet via wifi, but I cannot find the home server options anywhere and I am desperate to get it working. I have been through google, manuals and every possible thing but cannot seem to get this sorted.
Can anyone give me steps to get this going?
I have tried to connect this via windows 8 too, in the devices option, and it finds the tv, but it asks for a wps pin, I enter the pin that is displayed on the tv screen but it fails on the pc every time.

Please help...

Thanks
post #1846 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown111 View Post

Hey sorry to jump in half way with this, but I really need help with setting up the network on this set.
I have the 70" and the sony support guys are clueless.
I can get the tv to connect to the internet via wifi, but I cannot find the home server options anywhere and I am desperate to get it working. I have been through google, manuals and every possible thing but cannot seem to get this sorted.
Can anyone give me steps to get this going?
I have tried to connect this via windows 8 too, in the devices option, and it finds the tv, but it asks for a wps pin, I enter the pin that is displayed on the tv screen but it fails on the pc every time.

Please help...

Thanks

Is it looking for the pin code from your wireless router?

http://www.tp-link.us/article/?faqid=302
post #1847 of 3972
Thanks ill try that but it gives the name of the tv and asks for that pin, I also have no home network options
post #1848 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

The number of people that have had similar experiences as I have ( multiple defective TV's, 3 out of 3 for me) is insane ! The beauty of it is, we don't have to settle for half the product we thought we were buying, we need to return this crap. Those that accept half-ass products with big price tags are only encouraging companies to rush out the next thinner, "smarter" turd.

Honestly, I'm not some ultra picky guy, but when I spend $1500+ on a TV, I expect it to not have quality issues the second I unbox it and first plug it in.

Nah, I hear ya. It can be very frustrating. This is my third tv to be delivered on this ONE 70 inch purchase. I had one crappy Vizio, one broken in shipping Sony and now this 95%-flawless Sony on the wall in the last 2 months. Frustrating.

Keep us informed of how your situation turns out.

Btw, I went through 4 projectors to create what you see in my avatar. One Optoma and 3 Mitsubishis before I got one that was...well.....95%. Like I mentioned, it is more normal to get "products with issues" than to not, unfortunately.

I can't tell ya how many times I say that I'm done buying ANYTHING. And then.....ooooh look, something shiny and new I gotta have. lol
post #1849 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown111 View Post

Hey sorry to jump in half way with this, but I really need help with setting up the network on this set.
I have the 70" and the sony support guys are clueless.
I can get the tv to connect to the internet via wifi, but I cannot find the home server options anywhere and I am desperate to get it working. I have been through google, manuals and every possible thing but cannot seem to get this sorted.
Can anyone give me steps to get this going?
I have tried to connect this via windows 8 too, in the devices option, and it finds the tv, but it asks for a wps pin, I enter the pin that is displayed on the tv screen but it fails on the pc every time.

Please help...

Thanks

Did you set up windows media player to allow the device to connect the dlna server?

This is the steps I followed for win 7. In sure it's somewhat similar

http://www.ehow.com/how_8617459_set-up-dlna-server.html#page=1
post #1850 of 3972
Thread Starter 

Wait a minute.  Ok, I'm now worried about something.

 

I've had 2 sets.  One with blobs, one without.  The first one was the one scrutinized for 3D ability and it was great.  But the blobs were a disaster.

 

This 2nd one had me wondering about the FPR.  It seems more cross-talky than the prior one.  I can only imagine that this is possible if the FPR isn't 100% aligned right with the physical scanlines.  I wish I had the two side by side.  Anyone see cross-talk (when aligned to the center of the screen at a normal distance) on one screen, but not the other?

 

Arrrrrrgh.  Thought I was in the clear.
 

post #1851 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Wait a minute.  Ok, I'm now worried about something.

I've had 2 sets.  One with blobs, one without.  The first one was the one scrutinized for 3D ability and it was great.  But the blobs were a disaster.

This 2nd one had me wondering about the FPR.  It seems more cross-talky than the prior one.  I can only imagine that this is possible if the FPR isn't 100% aligned right with the physical scanlines.  I wish I had the two side by side.  Anyone see cross-talk (when aligned to the center of the screen at a normal distance) on one screen, but not the other?

Arrrrrrgh.  Thought I was in the clear.

 

From Highdefforum (October 2010): Experiencing crosstalk is subjective in nature, as individual human factors in perception can influence results [i.e.: a human's spatial difference between eyes (how distant your eyes are from each other), visual acuity (20/20 vision, etc.)]. This method of viewing and evaluating 3D is inferior to lab testing measures (crosstalk cannot be tested persay). So, accuracy and precision of measuring crosstalk is strictly point-of-view.
BUT!! That does not discount the fact that you, the customer, and your opinions of which brand is better at reproducing 3D is the correct one. After all, you will be watching that TV, not me (the salesman).
In conclusion, do not get lost in all the hoopla about each 3DTV and their brand's marketing scheme. Just note, that there are issues with 1st and 2nd generation 3DTV technologies as they are in their infant stages. As 3D technologies progress, visual distortion will be reduced, but problems will always exist.


With that being said, YES, I see it sometimes too around the edges of the image and only SOMEtimes with SOME 3D material, not all.
post #1852 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp06011999 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Wait a minute.  Ok, I'm now worried about something.

I've had 2 sets.  One with blobs, one without.  The first one was the one scrutinized for 3D ability and it was great.  But the blobs were a disaster.

This 2nd one had me wondering about the FPR.  It seems more cross-talky than the prior one.  I can only imagine that this is possible if the FPR isn't 100% aligned right with the physical scanlines.  I wish I had the two side by side.  Anyone see cross-talk (when aligned to the center of the screen at a normal distance) on one screen, but not the other?

Arrrrrrgh.  Thought I was in the clear.

 

From Highdefforum (October 2010): Experiencing crosstalk is subjective in nature, as individual human factors in perception can influence results [i.e.: a human's spatial difference between eyes (how distant your eyes are from each other), visual acuity (20/20 vision, etc.)]. This method of viewing and evaluating 3D is inferior to lab testing measures (crosstalk cannot be tested persay). So, accuracy and precision of measuring crosstalk is strictly point-of-view.
BUT!! That does not discount the fact that you, the customer, and your opinions of which brand is better at reproducing 3D is the correct one. After all, you will be watching that TV, not me (the salesman).
In conclusion, do not get lost in all the hoopla about each 3DTV and their brand's marketing scheme. Just note, that there are issues with 1st and 2nd generation 3DTV technologies as they are in their infant stages. As 3D technologies progress, visual distortion will be reduced, but problems will always exist.


With that being said, YES, I see it sometimes too around the edges of the image and only SOMEtimes with SOME 3D material, not all.

 

The quote above is using a different, common, and I believe errant, definition of cross talk.  They are talking about the ability of the eyes to manage convergence and seeing dual images as a result.  This is compounded because the filming can be achieved with the dual cameras aligned in converged or parallel orientations.  This is not an exact science, because IRL, you have control over your eyes.

 

The true definition of cross talk is not subjective in nature, and is literally the amount of left information leaking into the right eye and vice versa.  In passive, it's difficult to mask a scanline completely but for a few reasons, but the manufacturers are loathe to discuss this in concrete terms.  The biggest of them is IMO that it's possible for circularly polarized light to "blast through" a reversed-circular filter if bright enough.


Edited by tgm1024 - 7/31/13 at 8:38am
post #1853 of 3972
NATIVE 120hz!

Bought the TV last night. Many great things to say that I may write up in the forums later but suffice all that for now.

GREAT news: The 50R550A AND 60R550A do in fact support native 120hz. Tested HDMI-HDMI via PC (Nvidia 680GTX). Nvidia control panel, create custom resolution 1920x1080@120hz. Verified with FRAPS vsync to 120hz during video and gameplay. Also pressing 'Display' button on remote will show the resolution at '1920x1080 121hz'. So it looks like setting to 120 will convert to 121 for some reason on the tv.

Also ran same test with 1280x720@120hz.

The sales rep at Fry's allowed me to hook a laptop up to the display models IN STORE. When I saw the 50" and 60" did native 120hz I went ahead and bought the 50" as the 60" was too much for my budget.

The major advantage is that changing to 120hz eliminates input lag. I was in the store for about 45 minutes of testing. The game mode does cut input lag down to near none. However doing 120hz instead cuts it down TO none.

Disadvantages are that changing to 120hz takes away all of the picture options and automatically sets the scene mode to (Graphics) and can not be changed while in 120hz. Good thing is that as soon as you change it back to 60hz it will automatically change the scene mode back to whatever you had it at before you changed to 120hz.

While in 120hz smooth motion is obviously disabled. However tesing using Half Life 2 with a precision mouse performing panning at slow,medium, fast reveals that 120hz does reduce motion blur. However the cursur movements are not quite as smooth. It is like using the mouse on a really nice surface with very very very (yes very) light sand on it. This however is likely related to the way Windows handles mouse movements with refresh rates. I say this because using a xbox 360 controller attached to pc I can pan smooth as butter. I have never seen panning look this good on ANY LCD....hardly any motion blue. This is compared with my previous 2 27" and 22" gaming monitors at 2ms response times. The screen at 120hz is as fast or faster than a gaming 2ms monitor.

Guys it is absolutely amazing.....!

Feel free to ask any questions. I am very anal with attention to detail with these kind of things....its a gift and a curse in that I am never really happy with anything. But it helps me test things fully whereas others will not.
post #1854 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoley2k View Post

NATIVE 120hz!

Bought the TV last night. Many great things to say that I may write up in the forums later but suffice all that for now.

GREAT news: The 50R550A AND 60R550A do in fact support native 120hz. Tested HDMI-HDMI via PC (Nvidia 680GTX). Nvidia control panel, create custom resolution 1920x1080@120hz. Verified with FRAPS vsync to 120hz during video and gameplay. Also pressing 'Display' button on remote will show the resolution at '1920x1080 121hz'. So it looks like setting to 120 will convert to 121 for some reason on the tv.

 

What the TV says as a result of that display button indicates what it is taking in, not what it is displaying.  The last time this was tested, 1080p120 was discarding frames on output, which is common.

 

Setting the Nvidia control panel tells you nothing.

 

Unless I'm misreading the literature on it, the FRAPS vsync is a measurement of how many frames are sent, not of what the display is actually displaying or deciding to discard "behind your back".

 

See this post from Mark Rejhon.  So far the best confirmed is the 720p@120 that you mentioned.  I believe that the 1080's are still frame-discarding.

 

Use either his online frame discarding test, or the "Refresh Rate Multitool" and please report back.  Otherwise, you're not likely seeing 1080p120.

post #1855 of 3972
What is the overall impression of the 50 inch? Considering this model or a Samsung f6400.
post #1856 of 3972
Vsync in computer terms syncs the refresh rate of a game or hardware accelerated application at the same refresh rate as the screen. So if fraps runs for a minute and the highest number it shows is 60 then the refresh rate is 60 or 75 or 85 or 120, etc. However Fraps will never exceed the refresh rate of the display due to vsync. It is a great way to test what the max refresh rate is on a display because video card hardware does not 'lie' so to speak in terms of fps whereas refresh rates and as you say the Sony display itself very well might.

However, it COULD be discarding frames which would be a different story. While this is unlikely due to me testing not only 120fps but CONTANT 120fps its still another test to confirm. I'll do both the online test and the RRM when I get home. I'm at work at the moment!
post #1857 of 3972
I cant speak for the Samsung as I did not try it. The Sony 550 is awesome. I was with my girlfriend at the store and at home and I must have said 'this is...awesome' about 12 times...outloud...literally. The black are amazing. It really does look like the tv is 'off' when displaying a solid black jpeg. The smooth motion does not 'skip' around....smoothest I have seen so far. When changing one 'tick' on any picture settings you can immediately see the change. None of the ticks are irrelevant. The menu system is very fast and remote is extremly reponsive like tube tv remotes used to be. Have not done ANY of the wifi apps at all.
post #1858 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoley2k View Post

Vsync in computer terms syncs the refresh rate of a game or hardware accelerated application at the same refresh rate as the screen. So if fraps runs for a minute and the highest number it shows is 60 then the refresh rate is 60 or 75 or 85 or 120, etc. However Fraps will never exceed the refresh rate of the display due to vsync. It is a great way to test what the max refresh rate is on a display because video card hardware does not 'lie' so to speak in terms of fps whereas refresh rates and as you say the Sony display itself very well might.

 

The problem with applications like that is that it's relying on handshaking that could well be (and often is) a lie.  You'll see this with monitors & tv's that are pushed past their documented specs; they often report back to the card what they're taking.  But as discussed, this does not preclude the device from throwing away the frames on the way out.  There is no way for an application to figure this out programmatically.  You need to run an output test that tries to exercise the display in front of your eyes so you can see if and what frames might be discarded.  This is not the "definitely feels faster" tests, but the purely objective "what box is missing" tests and the like.

 

I don't mean to stomp on your happiness with both feet here, it's very hard to know this because we're used to devices reporting on their own abilities.  But when you go past the specifications, it's up to the vagaries of the algorithm, the hardware, and how much diet coke the software engineer was hopped on at 3am when he wrote it.

 

You might have ended up with a lucky display: Do report back.  Run both tests I pointed out, and by all means contact Mark Rejhon with the results.  Especially because people have been misinterpreting those results as well.  But I suspect many of us are pretty much resigned here to there being a lot of "woo hoo it works!" posts followed by "dang".  :-/

 

Swoley2K continues:
However, it COULD be discarding frames which would be a different story. While this is unlikely due to me testing not only 120fps but CONTANT 120fps its still another test to confirm. I'll do both the online test and the RRM when I get home.


If I understood the tests as described, the tests you ran won't tell you about frame discard at all.  When you get home, let us know what you find, and what the resulting output "looks like" when you run it.


Edited by tgm1024 - 7/31/13 at 11:22am
post #1859 of 3972
Yeah those are good points. I'm anal with detail so part of me wishes you hadnt even said that. Id love to be ignorant and enjoy technology for once instead of living in the settings/config menus. It is always better to have a few visual/manual test. Im here for another 6-7 hours but ill do it when I get home.
post #1860 of 3972
New software update version 5.309-2.301-00 is being pushed...

No clue what it addresses.
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