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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 9

post #241 of 3972
Thinking about a 60r550a to replace my broken down ex720 but one review say's there no dedicated Video game mode? There is one for the Sound mentioned in the manual but nothing for Video mentioned. I play my xbox360 on my main set and don't want to have a lot of input lag/processing lag when playing.
post #242 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoEater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, verification here. I saw the baseball image, but I want to know something for sure.

In all dark and dreary ("horror") scenes where there is also a bright light present, how are the dark colors? Can you distinguish the near-blacks and dark shadows, or are they all squashed into rips in space-time?

I dont see any squashed colors, but im not sure what Im looking for really. Im a Flat Panel newb. Me and kids watched Finding Nemo last night and I thought he dark scenes were great. One particular part when the goggles get dropped in the deep dark water and fish in total darkness swim down til they see the light was awesome. Ill try to find some more dark scenes in movies.

It's not squashed colors per se, it's more of the super dark grays (and some browns) that get collapsed to black on panels that have very bad dimming technology. Now frame dimming is a real plus over non-dimming, but that falls apart once you have a lot of real dark shadows AND parts of the screen with bright areas. The screen will not reduce the light output because it needs the bright scenes, and it's possible the dark grays suffer as a result.

Think of this scene you've probably seen 100,000 times: a couple of people walking down an alley in the daytime. The middle area is bright, but off to the sides are many dark things in deep shadows. Further, if they're wearing black, the subtle shades of it (including the shadows naturally present) might be squashed.

From the few pictures I've seen of this so far it seems like it's doing a very good job.

I'm going to have to post a mini-eyeglossing-over diatribe on what dimming actually is (frame & local), because people seem to think it's all about getting darker, and only darker, and are missing how it increases the number of possible dark shades.
post #243 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobster View Post

TGM1024,

Please look at my equipment list below for component specifics.

Here's how I'm setup. I'm setup as Passthrough for all inputs on the AVR. The delay values listed below do sync the picture)

All data comes in to the AVR via HDMI. Video goes from the AVR primary HDMI out, to the TV, using the same HDMI cable.

I don't use TV speakers for anything. This is a dedicated media room.

DirecTV - HDMI from Genie (HR34) to AVR (170msec for sync)

Blu-Ray - HDMI from Blu-Ray to AVR (10msec for sync)

Boxee Box - HDMI from Boxee to AVR (Only turned it on once since buying TV)

DVD-A - HDMI from DVD to Boxee to AVR (no adjustment. Only using for audio)

Internet/Netflix - Optical cable from TV to AVR (no adjustment, this is synced) (Note: still playing with this... My AVR says it handles audio return from the TV by HDMI, but I haven't figured out how to make it work yet. Optical works great and I had the cable lying around. So, no biggie there).

Hope this helps guys. BTW, as soon as I plugged mine in on Saturday night, it performed a software update successfully. Not sure how to check version # or I'd post.

Thanks

Ok, hold it. So you're having the Receiver pull out and use the audio *before* it is sent to the TV.

The best rule about that to follow is: DON'T. smile.gif

Fundamental issue for you to rethink this design. Puleeze.

Even if you are not using the TV speakers for any sound, you should always have the TV send the sound back to the receiver.

The reason is simple: the TV *always* knows how much processing it is doing and when the Audio should come out (speakers or sent back). No matter WHAT setting or device you're using, it will work.

Get away from having your devices do the delay.

This can be done in two ways:
  1. Using HDMI-ARC (Audio Return Channel, where the data is tunneled back through the same HDMI cable it came in on. This requires that the receiver AND TV support it)
  2. OR (if you're like most who don't have a receiver yet that is HDMI-ARC compliant): Having the TV audio-out port (All modern TVs have one) to go back to the receiver via S/PDIF, or even plain old fashioned red/white RCA analog stereo or whatever it allows.

If your TV supports neither of the above (unusual), then you're hosed. The Sony almost certainly does....Sony would have to be nuts to not supply it. And Sony is seldom nuts.

If you have trouble getting #1 above to work, use #2.

Let me know if this is unclear as to why it's important.
Edited by tgm1024 - 4/25/13 at 8:55am
post #244 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLoewenberg View Post

Our local Costco's multi screen demo had a 3d segment. Glasses weren't available at the Sony, but the LGs are also passive and their glasses worked fine.
Thanks, I'll take some LG glasses with me. My interest is in seeing how good or bad the 2D and 3D images are when viewed off-axis.
post #245 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, hold it. So you're having the Receiver pull out and use the audio *before* it is sent to the TV.

The best rule about that to follow is: DON'T. smile.gif
Fundamental issue for you to rethink this design. Puleeze.Even if you are not using the TV speakers for any sound, you should always have the TV send the sound back to the receiver.
The reason is simple: the TV *always* knows how much processing it is doing and when the Audio should come out (speakers or sent back). No matter WHAT setting or device you're using, it will work.
Get away from having your devices do the delay.
This can be done in two ways:
  1. Using HDMI-ARC (Audio Return Channel, where the data is tunneled back through the same HDMI cable it came in on. This requires that the receiver AND TV support it)
  2. OR (if you're like most who don't have a receiver yet that is HDMI-ARC compliant): Having the TV audio-out port (All modern TVs have one) to go back to the receiver via S/PDIF, or even plain old fashioned red/white RCA analog stereo or whatever it allows.
If your TV supports neither of the above (unusual), then you're hosed. The Sony almost certainly does....Sony would have to be nuts to not supply it. And Sony is seldom nuts.
If you have trouble getting #1 above to work, use #2.
Let me know if this is unclear as to why it's important.
But if using the #2 set up when playing a blu-ray movie, would you ever hear the superb HD audio featured on most blu-rays?
post #246 of 3972
Anyone have the dimensions of the shipping box for the 70" model? Wondering if it will fit completely inside a Honda Odyssey?
post #247 of 3972
TGM1024,

This is interesting. I want to be clear I understand what you're saying.

1. Do you mean to run all video-related (HDMI) signal directly into the TV and use ARC to get it to the receiver, with all audio processing done on one receiver input?

There are three HDMI inputs on the Sony TV. This would mean I could only handle three devices.

2. Or, do you mean send every input to the AVR, on to the TV and back to the AVR via ARC, using the one input channel there as well? That seems like an even more lengthy process. Plus, I'm not sure if the signal would be forwarded to the TV from the AVR if the AVR is set to another input.

Also, I'm definitely not going to use an analog signal to for my audio. If that's the case, why buy an AVR at all?

Thanks
Edited by Bobster - 4/25/13 at 9:59am
post #248 of 3972
Braint73,

I'm also looking at the 550A for gaming (occassional movie) and when I was in costco I saw game mode in the option menu and assumed that was it. But you mention an audio game mode rather than video and now I'm wondering if that is what I saw. Prior to reading your statement I always assumed "game" mode was to reduce image lag, never considered audio lag as that important for gaming.

I'm just dying for more information on the 550A models especially lag and comparison to previous sets. Some kid at displaylagcom tracks HDTV set lag using leobodnar tester and the prevous EX645 comes in at 35 ms. I'm praying the 550A isn't any higher than this but I'm not getting my hopes up as I'm looking at the 70" 550A. The Sharp 70" 745 comes in at 66 ms so I'm guessing the 70" 550A will come in north of the 40 ms threshold.

It's so painful being a HDTV gamer.
post #249 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

Anyone have the dimensions of the shipping box for the 70" model? Wondering if it will fit completely inside a Honda Odyssey?

67" x 40-5/8" x 8-5/8"
post #250 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Ok, hold it. So you're having the Receiver pull out and use the audio *before* it is sent to the TV.

The best rule about that to follow is: DON'T. smile.gif
Fundamental issue for you to rethink this design. Puleeze.Even if you are not using the TV speakers for any sound, you should always have the TV send the sound back to the receiver.
The reason is simple: the TV *always* knows how much processing it is doing and when the Audio should come out (speakers or sent back). No matter WHAT setting or device you're using, it will work.
Get away from having your devices do the delay.
This can be done in two ways:
  1. Using HDMI-ARC (Audio Return Channel, where the data is tunneled back through the same HDMI cable it came in on. This requires that the receiver AND TV support it)
  2. OR (if you're like most who don't have a receiver yet that is HDMI-ARC compliant): Having the TV audio-out port (All modern TVs have one) to go back to the receiver via S/PDIF, or even plain old fashioned red/white RCA analog stereo or whatever it allows.
If your TV supports neither of the above (unusual), then you're hosed. The Sony almost certainly does....Sony would have to be nuts to not supply it. And Sony is seldom nuts.
If you have trouble getting #1 above to work, use #2.
Let me know if this is unclear as to why it's important.
But if using the #2 set up when playing a blu-ray movie, would you ever hear the superb HD audio featured on most blu-rays?

Note: In the R550A (and all half-decent Sony sets I'm fairly sure), None of this is an issue: It supports ARC, It also supports Dolby 5.1 audio out....I'm not sure on the connectors.

In general though, if you have an old receiver, you cannot make use of advanced audio if you're forced to use simple analog stereo out from the TV.

Find out what your TV (whatever it is) supports for audio out: For instance, S/PDIF (such as what LG uses for audio out) is a digital format capable of encoding all of that.

Remember, you can always make exceptions for particular devices if you're just convinced that your TV cannot back-channel it properly to your receiver. But then also keep in mind: your delay will change if you change any lag-centric settings, almost certainly anything to do with interpolation.

If you're really stuck with an old receiver, then you probably don't have great sound anyway. And ARC compliant receivers aren't all that expensive any longer.
post #251 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post

67" x 40-5/8" x 8-5/8"
Thanks much!
post #252 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Note: In the R550A (and all half-decent Sony sets I'm fairly sure), None of this is an issue: It supports ARC, It also supports Dolby 5.1 audio out....I'm not sure on the connectors.

In general though, if you have an old receiver, you cannot make use of advanced audio if you're forced to use simple analog stereo out from the TV.

Find out what your TV (whatever it is) supports for audio out: For instance, S/PDIF (such as what LG uses for audio out) is a digital format capable of encoding all of that...
IIRC, S/PDIF can work with Dolby Digital and DTS, but HDMI is needed for the lossless audio codes featured on most blu-ray movies: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
post #253 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briant73 View Post

Thinking about a 60r550a to replace my broken down ex720 but one review say's there no dedicated Video game mode? There is one for the Sound mentioned in the manual but nothing for Video mentioned. I play my xbox360 on my main set and don't want to have a lot of input lag/processing lag when playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post

Braint73,

I'm also looking at the 550A for gaming (occassional movie) and when I was in costco I saw game mode in the option menu and assumed that was it. But you mention an audio game mode rather than video and now I'm wondering if that is what I saw. Prior to reading your statement I always assumed "game" mode was to reduce image lag, never considered audio lag as that important for gaming.

I'm just dying for more information on the 550A models especially lag and comparison to previous sets. Some kid at displaylagcom tracks HDTV set lag using leobodnar tester and the prevous EX645 comes in at 35 ms. I'm praying the 550A isn't any higher than this but I'm not getting my hopes up as I'm looking at the 70" 550A. The Sharp 70" 745 comes in at 66 ms so I'm guessing the 70" 550A will come in north of the 40 ms threshold.

It's so painful being a HDTV gamer.

I'm sure that review was absolutely incorrect as the Sony website even states this TV has a Game mode.

Accessing it is most likely the same as all Sony sets for as many years as I can remember.

You just press the Scene button on the remote and then select "Game".

Also, most likely, the input lag will be between 32ms-40ms as most Sonys are in the "Game" scene modes.
post #254 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Eeeeeeek. Almost right. Panasonic is using LG's panels.
Panasonic developed IPS-alpha technology for faster gaming tv's and are using them in 4k2k devices like tablets as well. LG is responsible for S-IPS and H-IPS panels for 3D tv's and mobile devices.
post #255 of 3972
My final test is complete and it passed w flying colors. This is prob the fastest moving video game out there and there was no lag at all!!

post #256 of 3972
Well, I've spent an hour or two messing with ARC*. Here's what I discovered...

The best the Sony will pass is DD 5.1 (I don't think this is unusual or substandard). This is confirmed in the owners manual. For me this is a non-starter. So, I will keep my system as previously configured: Blu-Ray --> AVR --> TV

I can hook the Genie (or other 5.1 source) up directly to the TV with no impact and I will use it for Netflix streamed from the TV.

Bob

* corrected post. Originally had DRC, it should be ARC.
Edited by Bobster - 4/25/13 at 8:54pm
post #257 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Eeeeeeek. Almost right. Panasonic is using LG's panels.
Panasonic developed IPS-alpha technology for faster gaming tv's and are using them in 4k2k devices like tablets as well. LG is responsible for S-IPS and H-IPS panels for 3D tv's and mobile devices.

Hmmmmmmm......good point----but always been confusing to me.

BTW, you mean "alpha IPS" not "IPS-alpha". "IPS Alpha" is a company. Here's a blurb of it becoming a subsidiary.

But try to get a read on what alpha-IPS is. Panasonic is never mentioned on any of the IPS technology sites. Here's a good read on IPS variants. They're supposed to have some IPS patents of their own but I can't find those either. You found an authority on it? I'd like to read about it.

Also, I noticed last year that suddenly the term "alpha IPS" was pulled from their product descriptions (in that chart at Amazon) and replaced with "Clear Panel Pro". I always found that suspicious....made me think at the time that they were actually buying the fastest IPS they could and re-branding it.
post #258 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobster View Post

Well, I've spent an hour or two messing with DRC. Here's what I discovered...

The best the Sony will pass is DD 5.1 (I don't think this is unusual or substandard). This is confirmed in the owners manual.

I find that a little odd that there is a limit on what is sent back. Because whatever it is that is supplied to the TV within the HDMI is just passed *back* through ARC----there is no point in conversion first. Is there??? {shrug}
post #259 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I find that a little odd that there is a limit on what is sent back. Because whatever it is that is supplied to the TV within the HDMI is just passed *back* through ARC----there is no point in conversion first. Is there??? {shrug}
The limiting factor is HD copyright protection (HDCP), which does not allow S/PDIF to transport the Hi-Def audio codecs, but does allow transport via HDMI if/when the HDCP handshake is working between the AV devices.
post #260 of 3972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I find that a little odd that there is a limit on what is sent back. Because whatever it is that is supplied to the TV within the HDMI is just passed *back* through ARC----there is no point in conversion first. Is there??? {shrug}
The limiting factor is HD copyright protection (HDCP), which does not allow S/PDIF to transport the Hi-Def audio codecs, but does allow transport via HDMI if/when the HDCP handshake is working between the AV devices.


I understand how the content protection protocol works, but wait a minute. He said "DRC" originally, I just figured he meant ARC. DRC = "Digital Return Channel" or a typo???

BTW, that's totally what it should have been called, but HDCP has a far goofier official name from Intel: "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection".
post #261 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Hmmmmmmm......good point----but always been confusing to me.

BTW, you mean "alpha IPS" not "IPS-alpha". "IPS Alpha" is a company. Here's a blurb of it becoming a subsidiary.

But try to get a read on what alpha-IPS is. Panasonic is never mentioned on any of the IPS technology sites. Here's a good read on IPS variants. They're supposed to have some IPS patents of their own but I can't find those either. You found an authority on it? I'd like to read about it.

Also, I noticed last year that suddenly the term "alpha IPS" was pulled from their product descriptions (in that chart at Amazon) and replaced with "Clear Panel Pro". I always found that suspicious....made me think at the time that they were actually buying the fastest IPS they could and re-branding it.
Yeah you are right Alpha IPS, they were originally labeled IPS-Pro or Pro-IPS and were developed by Hitachi in the 90's and adopted by Panasonic.. I used to follow this stuff all the time, but like you said to many to keep up with now.
Here is another:http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/screen-technology-sub-pixels-up-close-a1547.html
Edited by Dr.Shankenstein - 4/25/13 at 3:02pm
post #262 of 3972
I noticed today in "my" Costco that they have the KDL-60R520A, which is the 550 series without 3D for $1600. The store side of the Sony website doesn't acknowledge the tv, but it can be found through their support site.
post #263 of 3972
Here is my main question. I currently have last years LG 65 inch TV but it has given my nothing but problems especially with clouding. I am tempted to get this Sony TV.

Here are my questions.

How to you feel the colors are? I like bright colors.
Do you see clouding on white and black screens?
When you watched nemo where the colors really good?
Edited by Steve Leeds - 4/25/13 at 5:52pm
post #264 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLoewenberg View Post

I'm kind of drifting in the same direction. Before I'm done, there may be a number of HDTVs sitting around the family room. I hate when this happens. smile.gif

If Panny would have come out with a 70" plasma I wouldn't be reading this thread smile.gif....
post #265 of 3972
Honestly, whats the deal with full array LED? This is good enough for half the price! Go ahead and pay $5000 for a 60-65" TV.
post #266 of 3972
The difference is screen uniformity which is by far the biggest complaint against edge lit displays. Even the expensive ones. Full array is not a lot more expensive it's just that all of the full array displays, with the exception of the Sharp 80LE632, have tacked on local dimming. That's where the big cost jump comes in. Lets face it, edge lit is being pushed down our throats for one simple reason. It cheaper to manufacture and as long as they can get us to accept that as being OK, then that's what we'll get.
post #267 of 3972
For those that purchased this new TV, do any of you have Netflix??

I use the R550A, I access Netflix through the remote button, there are 3D movies. However, when I play a 3D movie, it asks if I want to play it in 3D. When I click YES, it play doesn't play it in 3D, it plays the movie in 2D. I even try to do a software update via the network but there is no newer version.

However, when I go to my Sony PS3 and access Netflix through that, I can play 3D movies. Is my TV defective?
post #268 of 3972
post #269 of 3972
Does anyone know whether retailers adside from Costco currently carry this model, specificlly the 60"? I was hoping to see one in person and maybe pick it up, but I havent' had luck finding one in my area (Pittsburgh).
post #270 of 3972
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT Fan View Post

Does anyone know whether retailers adside from Costco currently carry this model, specificlly the 60"? I was hoping to see one in person and maybe pick it up, but I havent' had luck finding one in my area (Pittsburgh).

Best Buy has both the 60" & 70" models now available.
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