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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 2

post #31 of 3984
I am planning on sitting about 10 feet from the screen. I am mounting it on a telescoping and swiveling wall mount so I can move it in and out as I see fit. I like to sit closer for games and further away for movies.

I am expecting this set to have PQ similar to Sony HX750 series which would be fine by me as long as there isn't terrible clouding and backlight bleed. Hoping for the best from this set. I am expecting this to be my next purchase. I don't care much about the 3D - I just want the best PQ for the money (my budget is $3000) - and I have my heart set on 70 inch +
post #32 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Quote:
There's something about the Vizio picture that always makes me cringe.

You're not alone my friend. smile.gif

That aside, I am very intrigued to see the 70R550A. I'm stupidly optimistic that it'll end up being a great option.

Well here's something that has me worried.

The R550A series has no mention of any localized light control capability at all; no local dimming. This is what tanked many other TVs in 2012 IMO.

HOWEVER, the Sony W802A (see my 802 thread smile.gif) seems to have no mention of the words "Local Dimming" either BUT they have two similar items:
  1. "Frame Dimming" (which is something that I believe most folks could not STAND about Samsung TVs----so I'm hoping this isn't the same thing---because THAT particular effect can be brutally unpleasant), and
  2. "Dynamic Edge LED Backlight".

The 2nd sounds like a variant of local dimming (measured in reverse?).
post #33 of 3984
The 70" is available othe Sony Style site for preorder at $2700.

Edit: BH does as well.
post #34 of 3984
Yup, their 2013 line up is ready to roll!

The question is, reviews? Is the passive 3D worth a darn? Better or worse TV than the new Vizio M series? Sharps updates?

Oh, so close to a new TV now!
post #35 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtrasmiley View Post

Yup, their 2013 line up is ready to roll!

???????????????

Where are you getting this from? The sony site is listing several models as mid april release!

The current MSRP and ship dates from Sony are as follows:

50" KDL-50R550A $1199.99 (April 16, 2013)
60" KDL-60R550A $1749.99 (April 16, 2013)
70" KDL-70R550A $2699.99 (April 16, 2013)
post #36 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Note: Sony is playing fast and loose with the phrases "Available around" and "Estimated Ship Date".
post #37 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

???????????????

Where are you getting this from? The sony site is listing several models as mid april release!

The current MSRP and ship dates from Sony are as follows:

50" KDL-50R550A $1199.99 (April 16, 2013)
60" KDL-60R550A $1749.99 (April 16, 2013)
70" KDL-70R550A $2699.99 (April 16, 2013)

From an email from Sony, and to clarify, "ready to roll" actually means, "ready to preorder"!!!!

But I guess it's close.
post #38 of 3984
For people who don't need 3D, the 520 series seems very promising.

But if it is not passive 3D it would be hard to figure out who makes the panel. (Passive 3D panels are almost always IPS and made by LG.)
post #39 of 3984
An IPS panel with no backlight bleed would be a nice set for my theater room. Looking forward to reviews.
post #40 of 3984
Yep, Sony has thrown in the towel and started buying 3d passive panels from LG as well. This was first reported in the Korean Times a year ago. As such it is a S-IPS panel just like all the other passive 3D sets and as such will share a lot of the same black level and screen uniformity issues as LG's. Sony's implementation may end up improving this a little, but I wouldn't bet on it being a huge improvement. Samsung right now is the only TV maker left soldiering on with active. Panasonic and Sony are now both going to LG for LCD 3D panels. I'm curious to see some sets come out with a direct-lit led implementation of LG's panels. That should help a little with uniformity and black level. I know LG is releasing one series this year.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/01/129_103814.html

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/04/133_108118.html

Here's the official listing on Sony's site:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519659#features
Edited by bargugl - 3/18/13 at 6:04pm
post #41 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post

Yep, Sony has thrown in the towel and started buying 3d passive panels from LG as well. This was first reported in the Korean Times a year ago. As such it is a S-IPS panel just like all the other passive 3D sets and as such will share a lot of the same black level and screen uniformity issues as LG's. Sony's implementation may end up improving this a little, but I wouldn't bet on it being a huge improvement. Samsung right now is the only TV maker left soldiering on with active. Panasonic and Sony are now both going to LG for LCD 3D panels. I'm curious to see some sets come out with a direct-lit led implementation of LG's panels. That should help a little with uniformity and black level. I know LG is releasing one series this year.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/01/129_103814.html

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/04/133_108118.html

Here's the official listing on Sony's site:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519659#features

What do you mean Samsung is the only one, what about Sharp? I was considering the Sharp 70" active 3D set.
post #42 of 3984
Sorry. I always forget about Sharp. Yep, their still active too. Of course, they are on the verge of bankruptcy without being bailed out so I'm not sure how much longer they will be around. Also, active 3D will be around for a while for plasma sets from all three of Samsung, Panasonic, and LG as FPR tech doesn't work with plasma
Edited by bargugl - 3/18/13 at 6:56pm
post #43 of 3984
So the way I understand it Sony is now going with LG panels for their 2013 models? Interesting.
post #44 of 3984
Thread Starter 
WHOA. True, LG is the largest supplier of IPS panels, but I can't find them committing to that for their model lines in 2012, can you? In 2012, the only ones I see who put IPS right out in front was the Panasonic line. Some AV-o-philes have been doing the "lupe test" as a result. And, all the LG lines suffer from off-angle viewing: but that's subjective to me, so YMMV.

Further, most of you know this, but absolutely not all IPS are created equal. In fact, among S-IPS, (I'm less subjectively condemning of alpha-IPS) I've been bitterly disappointed by the jump on the bandwagon phrasing similar to "woo hoo! 178° angle viewing!" IRL, it just isn't what it sounds like. There is such a surprising luminosity loss pass 45° (!!!) but to me the colors skew with it and I don't care WHAT the specs say, and it resulted in me punting the Panasonic ET5 as a contender. I found one reviewer who pointed this out, and I didn't believe him, and I even posted about it. Then I visited a few places and saw for myself that he was right.

Sony sets have almost always shown wonderful off angle viewing in the past. In particular, their S-PVA, even though still vertical alignment, completely shamed the Panasonics A-IPS and S-IPS when I've seen them.

Long and short of this: If sony is committing to IPS panels, I'm hoping they hold to their normally stringent PQ guidelines.
post #45 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

So the way I understand it Sony is now going with LG panels for their 2013 models? Interesting.

Well, here's a link to it if you like: There are others.


Sony Ups Reliance on LG for LCD Screens


I'm not happy about this in the least, frankly.
post #46 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

WHOA. True, LG is the largest supplier of IPS panels, but I can't find them committing to that for their model lines in 2012, can you? In 2012, the only ones I see who put IPS right out in front was the Panasonic line. Some AV-o-philes have been doing the "lupe test" as a result. And, all the LG lines suffer from off-angle viewing: but that's subjective to me, so YMMV.

Further, most of you know this, but absolutely not all IPS are created equal. In fact, among S-IPS, (I'm less subjectively condemning of alpha-IPS) I've been bitterly disappointed by the jump on the bandwagon phrasing similar to "woo hoo! 178° angle viewing!" IRL, it just isn't what it sounds like. There is such a surprising luminosity loss pass 45° (!!!) but to me the colors skew with it and I don't care WHAT the specs say, and it resulted in me punting the Panasonic ET5 as a contender. I found one reviewer who pointed this out, and I didn't believe him, and I even posted about it. Then I visited a few places and saw for myself that he was right.

Sony sets have almost always shown wonderful off angle viewing in the past. In particular, their S-PVA, even though still vertical alignment, completely shamed the Panasonics A-IPS and S-IPS when I've seen them.

Long and short of this: If sony is committing to IPS panels, I'm hoping they hold to their normally stringent PQ guidelines.

The LG LM6700 uses one of their IPS panels and the off axis viewing is the worst I've seen on any FP in a long time. Absolutely horrible.
Of course that's just one of the issues on a long list of issues with that FP.
post #47 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

WHOA. True, LG is the largest supplier of IPS panels, but I can't find them committing to that for their model lines in 2012, can you? In 2012, the only ones I see who put IPS right out in front was the Panasonic line. Some AV-o-philes have been doing the "lupe test" as a result. And, all the LG lines suffer from off-angle viewing: but that's subjective to me, so YMMV.

Further, most of you know this, but absolutely not all IPS are created equal. In fact, among S-IPS, (I'm less subjectively condemning of alpha-IPS) I've been bitterly disappointed by the jump on the bandwagon phrasing similar to "woo hoo! 178° angle viewing!" IRL, it just isn't what it sounds like. There is such a surprising luminosity loss pass 45° (!!!) but to me the colors skew with it and I don't care WHAT the specs say, and it resulted in me punting the Panasonic ET5 as a contender. I found one reviewer who pointed this out, and I didn't believe him, and I even posted about it. Then I visited a few places and saw for myself that he was right.

Sony sets have almost always shown wonderful off angle viewing in the past. In particular, their S-PVA, even though still vertical alignment, completely shamed the Panasonics A-IPS and S-IPS when I've seen them.

Long and short of this: If sony is committing to IPS panels, I'm hoping they hold to their normally stringent PQ guidelines.

The LG LM6700 uses one of their IPS panels and the off axis viewing is the worst I've seen on any FP in a long time. Absolutely horrible.
Of course that's just one of the issues on a long list of issues with that FP.

Yeah, I remember that model being a particular disappointment to you, and I don't like any of the LG's off-angle. The higher models increase their DCR and FR, but the image is clobbered to the side, still.

Curious, did LG actually state anywhere that the 6700 was definitely an IPS (and not just their "sometimes" thing)?
post #48 of 3984
LG claims that all their FPR paneled TV's are IPS so that would include the 6700. That would make sense as most of the non IPS TV's LG has produced the past couple years were ones where they outsourced the panels and LG Display and LG Chem have not licensed out the FPR process to anyone. Every review I've read of an LM product specifies an IPS panel, not that most of them do a good job of checking them independently.
post #49 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post

LG claims that all their FPR paneled TV's are IPS so that would include the 6700.

Where?

Quote:
That would make sense as most of the non IPS TV's LG has produced the past couple years were ones where they outsourced the panels and LG Display and LG Chem have not licensed out the FPR process to anyone. Every review I've read of an LM product specifies an IPS panel,

Not me. I see that particular spec left out of it. I assumed it's because it's not listed by LG in the first place. Do you have a link to an LG spec sheet that shows it's guaranteed to have an IPS panel?

Quote:
not that most of them do a good job of checking them independently.
post #50 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post

LG claims that all their FPR paneled TV's are IPS so that would include the 6700.

Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl 
That would make sense as most of the non IPS TV's LG has produced the past couple years were ones where they outsourced the panels and LG Display and LG Chem have not licensed out the FPR process to anyone. Every review I've read of an LM product specifies an IPS panel,

Not me. I see that particular spec left out of it. I assumed it's because it's not listed by LG in the first place. Do you have a link to an LG spec sheet that shows it's guaranteed to have an IPS panel?

For instance, here's an LG spec sheet for their 3rd highest TV, the 7600.
g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/lg/Specs/LM7600._V134644100_.pdf
Edited by tgm1024 - 3/19/13 at 12:52pm
post #51 of 3984
Well LG Display currently only produces IPS and OLED panels for TV's. (They do make other types for smaller devices). LG Display created and owns FPR technology. The FPR film is currently only made by LG Chem. They have not licensed the tech to any other company as of yet. Therefore, LG Display is the only manufacturer of FPR panels. If all LG Display panels for TV are IPS or OLED, than all FPR panels must be IPS or OLED. There is also this literature from LG stating that FDR panels are IPS:
http://us.fpr3d.com/3d-faq/about-fpr.jsp

I don't have time to dig up more stuff right at the moment.
post #52 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post

Well LG Display currently only produces IPS and OLED panels for TV's. (They do make other types for smaller devices). LG Display created and owns FPR technology. The FPR film is currently only made by LG Chem. They have not licensed the tech to any other company as of yet. Therefore, LG Display is the only manufacturer of FPR panels. If all LG Display panels for TV are IPS or OLED, than all FPR panels must be IPS or OLED. There is also this literature from LG stating that FDR panels are IPS:
http://us.fpr3d.com/3d-faq/about-fpr.jsp

I don't have time to dig up more stuff right at the moment.

Ok, thanks. It'd be interesting to see if LG actually STATES that their TVs (2D&3D) are always IPS someplace. Further, it'd be interesting to see if LG actually states that IPS are the only LCD panels (not TVs) they themselves manufacture. That statement does not exist from them that I can find.

BTW, that link contains a fundamental flaw. No one in the industry believes for a second that FPR does not hack the vertical resolution in half. It has to. That polarizing filter they're talking about alternates spin every other scanline. That filter cannot be switched dynamically....it's essentially part of that display's scanline. That's how it works. Even the LG websites themselves had diagrams in stripes. If they attempt to alternate frames so that full information is displayed then they are stuck with 2 problems----they have to back away from the statement that they're using the full frame rate, and further, each eye is STILL only getting half the 1080 (540) lines at a time. You can see this clearly when viewing any side by side comparison at Best Buy. Ironically they state that here as well: http://us.fpr3d.com/what-is-new/articles/Active-3D-vs-Passive-3D (on their own site). Funny too: that article also claims that active is the best 3D experience because of this and it outweighs the loss in frame rate.
Edited by tgm1024 - 3/19/13 at 4:22pm
post #53 of 3984
Well if LG Display does make something different, they don't seem to be selling them to anyone. I haven't looked at every single one of their products, but every TV panel I've checked here has been listed as IPS:
http://www.panelook.com/bramodlist.php?order=panel_id&by=desc&pagesize=30&brands[]=LGD&application=LCTV&production_state=1
I also haven't found any TV panel in their product catalog that has been anything other IPS. LG Display and LGE are separate subsidiaries in a massive Korean conglomerate, so any mention of what LG Display makes would come from LG Display and not LGE. The only tech that LG Display talks about on their website is the IPS. LGE is Lg Display's majority shareholder and biggest customer. When people talk about LG panels, they are talking about the panels produced by LG Display and they are considered as in-house produced when appearing on LGE products despite technically being a separate company. LGE itself makes TV's but does not actually make panels. FPR tecnology is a proprietary technology of LG Display and not LGE.

In their monitor business LG Display does manufacture TN panels and several variations of IPS, but I can't imagine LGE putting a TN panel in anything but the lowest of the low TV models and the LG Display catalog doesn't show TN being produced in anything larger than 21.5". Most reports of LG TV's without IPS have been of having VA panels, which have been outsourced as LG Display doesn't seem to make them. IHS iSuppli estimated LGE outsourcing of panels as about 20% in 2011. LGE did tell HDGuru in early 2012 that at least all 1080p 2D models under 65" would have IPS panels.
http://hdguru.com/ces-2012-lgs-hdtv-line/7018/

A review of LG Display's annual report filed with the SEC has no mention of VA panels being produced and indicates that 32", 47", and 55" panels are only produced at their P81, P82, P83 8th Generation plant in Paju, Korea. This plant only produces IPS panels and there is an article of a tour of that facility here:
http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/displays/282835-inside-a-lcd-factory-paju-south-korea

If LG Display is making something other IPS for TV panels, they are sure being awfully sneaky about it and if they licensed FPR technology to another company, it would have to be reflected in the annual report.

I agree that their FPR page has some strange stuff, but there is always this thorough analysis of the tech by Displaymate:
http://www.displaymate.com/3D_TV_ShootOut_1.htm
Not sure if LG paid Displaymate for it, though they claim it is independent.
Edited by bargugl - 3/19/13 at 7:52pm
post #54 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

So the way I understand it Sony is now going with LG panels for their 2013 models? Interesting.

Well, here's a link to it if you like: There are others.


Sony Ups Reliance on LG for LCD Screens


I'm not happy about this in the least, frankly.


I aint happy about that news either.
post #55 of 3984
I'm on the market for a 70+ 3D TV, and my budget is around $4000. At this point im begrudgingly considering going with the 80 Inch Vizio M series. I got my hopes up when I saw this 70 inch announced from Sony, and I would totally be willing to sacrifice 10 inches in favor of the Sony brand instead of the Vizio. Let alone $2600 for a 70 inch when Samsungs 75 inch offering is $8000? Where do I sign!

But this review I just read, left a very bad taste in my mouth. All I could hear was cost cutting, matte screen, washed out picture.

http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/sony-lcd-tv/sony-kdl70r550a.html

The way I see it, Sony, (a brand Ive been a fan of for almost 30 years) seems to be on a cost cutting (even at the expense of picture quality) mission, whereas Vizio (again, a brand I'm begrudgingly learning to accept after a horrible experience I had with one of their TVs 5 years ago) seems to be on a brand establishing, cutting edge design mission. Just look at the TVs they're coming up with:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/vizio-2013-hdtv-4k-m-series-xvt/

I would be EXTREMELY HAPPY if I'm wrong. If somehow I were to see te PQ if the 70 inch Sony in person and turned out to be amazing. But I'm just not seeing it. If at least they were to offer the 70 inch in a higher tier version, like XBR or something, I'd be willing to pay a grand more. But it seems right now, with Sony, with the 2013 lineup, if you want really good picture quality is either buy the $25.000 4K TV or go F*** yourself. I haven't lost all hope thou. My fingers are still crossed.
post #56 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigmac View Post

I'm on the market for a 70+ 3D TV, and my budget is around $4000. At this point im begrudgingly considering going with the 80 Inch Vizio M series. I got my hopes up when I saw this 70 inch announced from Sony, and I would totally be willing to sacrifice 10 inches in favor of the Sony brand instead of the Vizio. Let alone $2600 for a 70 inch when Samsungs 75 inch offering is $8000? Where do I sign!

But this review I just read, left a very bad taste in my mouth. All I could hear was cost cutting, matte screen, washed out picture.

http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/sony-lcd-tv/sony-kdl70r550a.html

The way I see it, Sony, (a brand Ive been a fan of for almost 30 years) seems to be on a cost cutting (even at the expense of picture quality) mission, whereas Vizio (again, a brand I'm begrudgingly learning to accept after a horrible experience I had with one of their TVs 5 years ago) seems to be on a brand establishing, cutting edge design mission. Just look at the TVs they're coming up with:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/vizio-2013-hdtv-4k-m-series-xvt/

I would be EXTREMELY HAPPY if I'm wrong. If somehow I were to see te PQ if the 70 inch Sony in person and turned out to be amazing. But I'm just not seeing it. If at least they were to offer the 70 inch in a higher tier version, like XBR or something, I'd be willing to pay a grand more. But it seems right now, with Sony, with the 2013 lineup, if you want really good picture quality is either buy the $25.000 4K TV or go F*** yourself. I haven't lost all hope thou. My fingers are still crossed.

Vizio is just a marketing firm that sells TV's. They hire a cheap company to do a design for them and then hire another cheap company to build the sets for them. Pretty much what Best Buy does with Insignia and Dynex. Of course, these same companies also do some work for the big name brands out there as there is a lot of outsourcing going on, particularly among the lower end sets.

I'd wait to see the Sony in person and also wait until more reviews get posted as there is a lot of unevenness in opinion among the various TV review sites out there. In the end it is up to you. A lot of people have bought Vizio sets and most have been happy.
Edited by bargugl - 3/21/13 at 8:13am
post #57 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post

Vizio is just a marketing firm that sells TV's. They hire a cheap company to do a design for them and then hire another cheap company to build the sets for them. Pretty much what Best Buy does with Insignia and Dynex. Of course, these same companies also do some work for the big name brands out there as there is a lot of outsourcing going on, particularly among the lower end sets.

I'd wait to see the Sony in person and also wait until more reviews get posted as there is a lot of unevenness in opinion among the various TV review sites out there. In the end it is up to you. A lot of people have bought Vizio sets and most have been happy.

I definitely agree. I need to see this Sony in person. I'm not even that demanding. As long as it has a PQ equivalent of my current KDL55NX810, or my 4 year old Samsung LN52A750, but in a 70 inch presentation and with 3D, Im sold. What worries me is that 4 or 5 years ago, when the first 120hz sets started popping up both from Sony and Samsung, the general consensus was "hey, look how good we can make your blu rays look. Looks beyond crystal clear!". Fast forward 5 years and now the trend is "Hey, look how thin and cheap we can make these! And they're still 1080p! They don't look as good as your 5 year old LCD, and there's some clouding.............but look! THIN! And you can tweet from them!"
Edited by TheBigmac - 3/21/13 at 11:14am
post #58 of 3984
Your sentiments are my exact concern. I am going to give a lot more consideration to the sharp, or I may try to find a good deal on last years 80 incher
post #59 of 3984
Thread Starter 
Thanks to TheBigMac for being the first to dig up a review of this beast online. I wasn't expecting that until the 31st or so.

And I could have guessed that review word for word.

All I could think of when I was reading it: LG LG LG friggen LG.

Off angle viewing? No longer the quality we used to expect from the sony NON-ips panels. The LG panels (which my fingers have worn out bashing in commentary) aren't great at all at this. Don't care what anyone else says.

I am doing handstands however that the top and bottom are inky black and are not bleeding like a sieve!

The clobbered shadow detail, also easily predictable, is due to the lack of the Dynamic Edge Lighting (Sony code speak I believe for local dimming), as well as their "Frame Dimming" (which I want to see). Those two items *are* on the 802. And I'm dying to see THAT particular beast (they're available only as large as 55" however).

I'm now furiously digging for the reviews (10 days ahead of schedule). smile.gif
post #60 of 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


I am doing handstands however that the top and bottom are inky black and are not bleeding like a sieve!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

That cracked me up. Now, I hear what you're saying about local dimming. And I wants it. I wants the precious. My preeeeeciousss.............

But seriously, who do I need to kill to get a freakin TV with local dimming froma reputable brand in at least 70 inches than doesn't require me to sell a kidney?
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