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Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 27

post #781 of 3974
How a TV looks in store is NEVER how it will look in your home! People have to remember stores plug the TV in and that's basically it, no changing of settings and certainly no proper calibration done.
post #782 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr stroke View Post

Went to Costco today to buy the 70"(they had it on sale $2499) and really disappointed. Colors were really washed out, which could probably be fixed with calibration, but the viewing angels were terrible. Almost as bad as a cheap TN computer monitor. Guess Ill keep looking.

Sucks as there aren't many 70" panels out there
mad.gif
The viewing angles are actually pretty good. We had friends over last night to watch Life Of Pi in 3D and I sat at about 30% off center and the effects were very good and the color washed out just a tiny bit. I'll post my calibrations using Spears and Munsil version 2 calibration disc tomorrow. I did have a scare a few minutes ago. I switched from DVD to TV (HDMI 3 to HDMI 1) and the screen went light green and the TV would not respond to any instruction from the remote. It wouldn't even turn off, not even when I pushed the on/off button on the TV. I unplugged it for a minute or two and it came back to life and is working fine now. Weird huh?
post #783 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks Carter View Post

On Sony TV's you have to select either cinema or game as the scene selection to have access to all the picture modes otherwise you only get the basic 3 to choose from.

On the R550, if you choose Scene Select: Cinema or Game, some of the options will be greyed out. Use Scene Select: General to unlock all of the adjustment options (Motionflow, gamma, etc).

Regarding some of the individual options... (only my 2c... don't take as gospel)

Backlight - Tis better to go lower here and boost the Picture (contrast) than starting with MAX backlight and dialing down the contrast. Try for the lowest backlight setting you can get away with.

Color temperature - Warm is too saturated, whereas cool sets the color temperature way too high (bluish ghost-bright whites). I use neutral.

Motionflow and Cinemotion - Both OFF. I don't like the soap opera effect.

Advanced settings:

Adv. Contrast Enhancer - Awful. Destroys detail and color gradations. Never use it.
Black Corrector - Ditto. Turn it off. Crushes blacks and shadow detail.
Gamma - leaving at zero until I can measure the slope w/colorimeter. Might use 1, 2, or 3 in conjunction with brightness tweaks... jury is out until then. Can't imagine going -1, -2, or -3 since blacks are already inky-dark on this set.
Clear white - Raises the color temperature of white, which only seems useful when using a color temperature of warm. If you like warm color temperature, try setting it to high. Otherwise, off... neutral is high enough without it.
Live color - YUK. Every setting looks artificial. Better to notch up the color setting if desired.
LED Motion Mode - OFF! Even if it supposedly works, the tradeoff is a noticeably dimmed screen. No thank you.

Currently using Custom
backlight - 5-7 range
picture - 75-85 range
brightness - 53
color - 49 (44 for Time Warner content since they juice the color in my 'hood)
hue - 0
sharp - 2
color temp - neutral
everything else off

Really, not much else to tweak unless a hidden service menu option is available. Or if future firmware updates unlock more settings.
Edited by Nick Dangerous - 5/26/13 at 5:24pm
post #784 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

The viewing angles are actually pretty good. We had friends over last night to watch Life Of Pi in 3D and I sat at about 30% off center and the effects were very good and the color washed out just a tiny bit.

Agreed. Viewing angles are more than adequate here. I'm quite impressed with the quality of the picture considering how few adjustments were required. Simply disabling the "enhancing"/"boosting"/"correcting" crap and making basic brightness/contrast adjustments will get you most of the way there.
post #785 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr stroke View Post

Went to Costco today to buy the 70"(they had it on sale $2499) and really disappointed. Colors were really washed out, which could probably be fixed with calibration, but the viewing angels were terrible. Almost as bad as a cheap TN computer monitor. Guess Ill keep looking.

Sucks as there aren't many 70" panels out there
mad.gif
The viewing angles are actually pretty good. We had friends over last night to watch Life Of Pi in 3D and I sat at about 30% off center and the effects were very good and the color washed out just a tiny bit. I'll post my calibrations using Spears and Munsil version 2 calibration disc tomorrow. I did have a scare a few minutes ago. I switched from DVD to TV (HDMI 3 to HDMI 1) and the screen went light green and the TV would not respond to any instruction from the remote. It wouldn't even turn off, not even when I pushed the on/off button on the TV. I unplugged it for a minute or two and it came back to life and is working fine now. Weird huh?

Hopefully that's the kind of thing a firmware update will keep from happening in the future.

The only "crash" like thing I had was when fast forwarding through the FIOS on-demand version of "Ice Age 4 3D". The TV became horribly confused and turned the entire screen into a mishmash of half-inch squares of broken video. Would not come back from that except to escape to 2D. Going back to 3D and it returned. I did my first firmware update (I should have done that when I opened the box) and it was fixed.
post #786 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

On the R550, if you choose Scene Select: Cinema or Game, some of the options will be greyed out. Use Scene Select: General to unlock all of the adjustment options (Motionflow, gamma, etc).

Regarding some of the individual options... (only my 2c... don't take as gospel)

Backlight - Tis better to go lower here and boost the Picture (contrast) than starting with MAX backlight and dialing down the contrast. Try for the lowest backlight setting you can get away with.

Color temperature - Warm is too saturated, whereas cool sets the color temperature way too high (bluish ghost-bright whites). I use neutral.

Motionflow and Cinemotion - Both OFF. I don't like the soap opera effect.

Advanced settings:

Adv. Contrast Enhancer - Awful. Destroys detail and color gradations. Never use it.
Black Corrector - Ditto. Turn it off. Crushes blacks and shadow detail.
Gamma - leaving at zero until I can measure the slope w/colorimeter. Might use 1, 2, or 3 in conjunction with brightness tweaks... jury is out until then. Can't imagine going -1, -2, or -3 since blacks are already inky-dark on this set.
Clear white - Raises the color temperature of white, which only seems useful when using a color temperature of warm. If you like warm color temperature, try setting it to high. Otherwise, off... neutral is high enough without it.
Live color - YUK. Every setting looks artificial. Better to notch up the color setting if desired.
LED Motion Mode - OFF! Even if it supposedly works, the tradeoff is a noticeably dimmed screen. No thank you.

Currently using Custom
backlight - 5-7 range
picture - 75-85 range
brightness - 53
color - 49 (44 for Time Warner content since they juice the color in my 'hood)
hue - 0
sharp - 2
color temp - neutral
everything else off

Really, not much else to tweak unless a hidden service menu option is available. Or if future firmware updates unlock more settings.

Thanks for your setting suggestions. I bought my 550A 70 inch a few days ago. Having MotionFlow and Cinemotion off dramatically improved my sports, especially Hockey. The blurring of the puck was noticeably different when comparing those on/off settings.

I'm not really into 3D, but I was pleasantly surprised on the quality of the passive 3D while watching The Hobbit and Avatar. Plus in my book.

General PQ is very good for a LED 70 inch. I think Plasma still owns in PQ department, but for the price and size of this TV, I'm very satisfied so far.

My family room has a lot of windows on the side and back, but because of the "semi matte" screen, it really helps with the reflections. Another plus.

Cons: there were a few instances when the tv went blank after turning on my DVD player, which has been observed by other folks

I was thinking of getting the Samsung 65 inch 7100, a nice looking TV with great PQ, but the screen was too reflective for my room. My other options were the Sharp and Vizio 70 inch, but I felt the full matte screens lowered the overall PQ.
post #787 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

No Game mode. Only Vivid, Standard, and Custom. This TV is very weak in the adjustments available. Surprisingly so.

Interestingly enough, my SXRD 50A2020 rear projection set only offers Vivid, Standard and Custom picture modes as well; I find it actually refreshing to see such a simple approach to picking one of these as a calibration starting point as compared to other Sony sets with a MASSIVE myriad of adjustments and menus as well as sets from competing brands. To me, it's much, much easier to pick from just three modes and then go from there -- allowing a more "professional" mode like, say, Custom, to be available with "Advanced Controls" if a tweaker wants to go crazy...

To me, Standard gets me into the ballpark without needing to play "Russian Roulette" with a million and one Advanced Settings that you leave off most of the time anyway (I know, I know...Custom mode also opens up the Warm color temps and the white balance controls...) -- and so I can let Standard "do its thing" while adjusting mainline controls like Contrast, Color, Sharpness, etc. with setup discs...
post #788 of 3974
Bad news....picked up the 70" and watched some hockey. I can see two blobs right in the centre and they are very noticeable. They aren't any other time unless the scene is pretty uniform. Is there anything that can be done? Is it worth calling SONY about it or just returning it to Costco and looking for something else? There doesn't seem to be any clouding or flash lighting which is great but these blobs are not nice to look at. I'm a huge hockey fan so this is not a good thing.

EDIT: Actually there is some light leakage and spotlighting on the bottom right. I also left the TV on for a while and it seemed those blobs were less noticeable.
Edited by MeelaPo - 5/26/13 at 9:37pm
post #789 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post

Interestingly enough, my SXRD 50A2020 rear projection set only offers Vivid, Standard and Custom picture modes as well; I find it actually refreshing to see such a simple approach to picking one of these as a calibration starting point as compared to other Sony sets with a MASSIVE myriad of adjustments and menus as well as sets from competing brands. To me, it's much, much easier to pick from just three modes and then go from there -- allowing a more "professional" mode like, say, Custom, to be available with "Advanced Controls" if a tweaker wants to go crazy...

To me, Standard gets me into the ballpark without needing to play "Russian Roulette" with a million and one Advanced Settings that you leave off most of the time anyway (I know, I know...Custom mode also opens up the Warm color temps and the white balance controls...) -- and so I can let Standard "do its thing" while adjusting mainline controls like Contrast, Color, Sharpness, etc. with setup discs...

You can customize custom and standard accordingly so you have 2 custom modes. Vivid is pretty much locked down. Normally having a few modes you can fully customize is useful for people because depending on what you are watching you might need a different setup. Example sports you want all the motion flow cine control and all that other stuff off so the motion is more fluid. Maybe a brighter screen too. For movies you want want to make the picture darker to bring out the blacks and not have it to bright In a dark room, maybe all those options enabled for a more realistic look. Or maybe a day and night setting for movies because your room can bright during the day so a brighter screen to help you see it. Maybe also another setting for gaming.

Normally I would have 2 settings, so Ta perfect for me but sometimes I can use a 3rd for whatever reason.

The scene selection thing seems to cover more picture modes but I need to play more with it.

For your case you only need standard so you'll never be playin Russian roulette with the settings bc you will probably never change it again.
post #790 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Allllright. Forget the manual diagram. Analog audio out is in fact a 3.5mm phone jack.

Confirmed with headphones. And it's not under control of the volume button (by default). That is what you would want by default. Am not sure if you can change that setting---I haven't looked.

It for some reason is housed in something that looks like an RCA(phono) jack, and will take an RCA plug, but God knows what that would do, because the center pin of an RCA jack is thinner than the 3.5mm required for the phone jack, and I'll not test it.

So you can reverse channel your analog R/L audio directly to an RCA female input on your receiver, provided you've got an 3.5mm Phone Jack to RCA(male) converter cable, which are a dime a dozen. Or commonly you'll find one with female RCA ends on the cable for you to connect your own RCA male-to-male cable. Eh.

Note to others: You'll occasionally see the phone-to-RCA cable listed as "phono"-to-RCA. That is a common mistake---don't be confused by it. Check the image! "Phone" is for the headphone style jack. "Phono" is a less commonly used synonym for RCA. I even caught Monoprice making this mistake once on their website and they told me they'd fix it.
post #791 of 3974
Thanks!

I'll disregard the manual. The Quick Start Guide actually seems to show an RCA splitter, which is why I originally asked. I may have attempted to plug it in!

I was wondering where the 3.5mm jack was, as I'd seen others mention it, but not the manual.

I'll settle the issue with a new HTS with digital inputs after the shock of the bill for the TV wears off.
post #792 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

You can customize custom and standard accordingly so you have 2 custom modes. Vivid is pretty much locked down. Normally having a few modes you can fully customize is useful for people because depending on what you are watching you might need a different setup. Example sports you want all the motion flow cine control and all that other stuff off so the motion is more fluid. Maybe a brighter screen too. For movies you want want to make the picture darker to bring out the blacks and not have it to bright In a dark room, maybe all those options enabled for a more realistic look. Or maybe a day and night setting for movies because your room can bright during the day so a brighter screen to help you see it. Maybe also another setting for gaming.

Normally I would have 2 settings, so Ta perfect for me but sometimes I can use a 3rd for whatever reason.

The scene selection thing seems to cover more picture modes but I need to play more with it.

For your case you only need standard so you'll never be playin Russian roulette with the settings bc you will probably never change it again.

On my SXRD, there are three picture modes: Vivid, Standard and Custom. EACH of these are adjustable and assignable, with only the Vivid and Standard modes locking out both the Advanced Settings and the "Warm" color temperature selections (Warm 1 and Warm 2); otherwise, each of these modes are adjustable for basic settings like Color, Contrast, Sharpness, etc...

That being said, I prefer Standard on MY set because it DOES lock out the Advanced Settings so I don't have to "mess" with all those controls, most of which are turned off in the end anyway (Black Corrector, Live Color, etc.). Now, many argue that the VERY POINT of the Advanced Settings within the Custom mode is that you CAN turn off some or most of these because they're supposedly turned ON in varying degrees within the Standard and Vivid modes (in addition to being able to adjust white balance in Custom) -- however, using Standard on my TV with a NEUTRAL color temp yields very nice results once the main settings are dialed in via setup discs...in other words, sure some edge enhancement or color goosing may be going on within Standard by default, but by adjusting Contrast (Picture on Sony TVs), Sharpness and Color with setup discs, the picture gets dialed in to a very acceptable end product...
post #793 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteRBch View Post

Thanks!

Welks!

Quote:
I'll disregard the manual. The Quick Start Guide actually seems to show an RCA splitter, which is why I originally asked. I may have attempted to plug it in!

Well it's weird. On the "Manuals, Spec, & Warranty" tab of their support page, you get the "quick start guide" showing a "mini-pin" to RCA splitter as a cable, WITH the correct drawing for the plug. This is the same as the printed version of that guide.

HOWEVER, both the PDF and printed "Operating Instructions" (the large manual shipped with the TV), has on page 14 a clear drawing of an RCA plug going to that socket. This is a mistake, and confused the bejeebers outta me.

And it doesn't help that it actually physically "fits" an RCA plug. (Again, I didn't try testing it connected to any equipment or even with the TV on, because no way Jose am I going to risk any kind of absurd "surprising" circuit board reaction to it). That seems like a confusing coincidence to me.
post #794 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by nautilus123 View Post

is there a game mode on this tv? if it does, is there any delay ( is FPS game playable on this tv)? i'd to have this option available for BF4. thx...

displaylag.com list these sets as one of the best for gaming for 2013.
http://www.displaylag.com/introducing-2013s-best-hdtvs-for-gaming-part-1/

I ordered the 60 inch so I'm hopeful gaming works well too.


edit: fixed url...oops!
Edited by crabbz - 5/27/13 at 8:18pm
post #795 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nautilus123 View Post

is there a game mode on this tv? if it does, is there any delay ( is FPS game playable on this tv)? i'd to have this option available for BF4. thx...

displaylag.com list these sets as one of the best for gaming for 2013.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=39.78209+-82.7395913888889&ll=39.782413,-82.740113&spn=0.0031,0.003809&t=h&z=18

I ordered the 60 inch so I'm hopeful gaming works well too.

I'm not sure I trust that Leo Bodnar testing device without seeing its schematic. There's something wrong when some TVs yield 0 ms lag.
post #796 of 3974
I can't figure out the difference between Motionflow and Cinemotion, or what LED Motion Mode is supposed to do besides dramatically cutting the brightness.
post #797 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm not sure I trust that Leo Bodnar testing device without seeing its schematic. There's something wrong when some TVs yield 0 ms lag.

I didn't notice any TVs with 0ms, but that would be suspicious.
post #798 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatscifiguy View Post

I can't figure out the difference between Motionflow and Cinemotion, or what LED Motion Mode is supposed to do besides dramatically cutting the brightness.

I'm in the same boat too. All I know is that MotionFlow on creates that soap opera effect and induces blurriness of the hockey puck, so I definitely have that off when watching sports.

I can't seem to tell a difference with Cinemotion on or off.
post #799 of 3974
Tip: If you are using a HTPC, make sure the brightness level is set properly on your graphics card. By default, it will be too low (which will crush blacks). You can check the levels here:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

You should see minute gradations all the way up the scale. You may also need to adjust PC gamma settings as well.
Edited by Nick Dangerous - 5/28/13 at 7:27am
post #800 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm not sure I trust that Leo Bodnar testing device without seeing its schematic. There's something wrong when some TVs yield 0 ms lag.

I didn't notice any TVs with 0ms, but that would be suspicious.

The guy running that site has reported that off and on in the input lag thread.
post #801 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Guys, no matter what setting, The nasty "first 20 minutes" of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is completely unwatchable to me.

The jittery nature of this is horrible regardless of setting.

It was broadcast on FIOS (HBO maybe?) last night and I was getting a complete headache (etc.)

I don't remember that happening in the theater, which would have a larger FOV than this thing. Yes, I understand what causes motion blur. But OMG this was bad.

Debate the relevence to this, but regardless, IMO, we need native 120 FPS, and soon. Thank goodness James Cameron is back to debating the 60 fps offering (once mused as a mandate) for Avatar 2. If there's one movie mogul that could push that boulder up a hill, it would be him. God I hope he releases it only at 60.
post #802 of 3974
Yeah I can't stand that "shakey cam technique" masquerading as good cinematography. It's just lazy filmmaking. First saw it during Bourne Supremacy and hated it.
post #803 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

Yeah I can't stand that "shakey cam technique" masquerading as good cinematography. It's just lazy filmmaking. First saw it during Bourne Supremacy and hated it.

SPR was by far the worst though (on this tv only?) I would love to see how the XBR 950 would have handled it. Or a plasma. Maybe worth a rental to see if it's related to the pulldown resulting from the FIOS 1080i (?)
post #804 of 3974
For those still looking for a setting that suits them here are the settings that came out of my Spears and Munsil Calibration Disc setup.
Picture Mode ----Custom
Backlight
8
Picture
84
Brightness
58
Color
44
Hue
0
Sharpness
19
Color Temp
Neutral
Most would say that the advanced settings should be off but I actually liked these two settings as follows. Advanced Contrast Enhancer--HIGH, Black Corrector---LOW. A couple of observations. Backlight differences between 7 and Max were very slight. Picture between 75 and Max are very slight. Brightness level differences are critical. Color setting differences are very noticeable and critical. Hue differences are critical. Sharpness levels are minimal. Color Temp between Neutral and Cool a matter of personal like. The most critical setting is balancing Backlight and Brightness. These settings are a good starting point for you to tweak a bit to your personal taste. Like most recent big screen displays I expect the overall PQ to improve during the first 100 hours of break-in.
post #805 of 3974
Not sure why these settings came out so weird looking so I hope you can decipher them correctly.
post #806 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

For those still looking for a setting that suits them here are the settings that came out of my Spears and Munsil Calibration Disc setup.
Picture Mode ----Custom
Backlight
8
Picture
84
Brightness
58
Color
44
Hue
0
Sharpness
19
Color Temp
Neutral
Most would say that the advanced settings should be off but I actually liked these two settings as follows. Advanced Contrast Enhancer--HIGH, Black Corrector---LOW. A couple of observations. Backlight differences between 7 and Max were very slight. Picture between 75 and Max are very slight. Brightness level differences are critical. Color setting differences are very noticeable and critical. Hue differences are critical. Sharpness levels are minimal. Color Temp between Neutral and Cool a matter of personal like. The most critical setting is balancing Backlight and Brightness. These settings are a good starting point for you to tweak a bit to your personal taste. Like most recent big screen displays I expect the overall PQ to improve during the first 100 hours of break-in.

your dashes are causing it to add a full line to it.

can you actually post all your settings? live color? clear white? cine motion and all that, or is everything off?

also is your light sensor bar on / off?

eco setting off low high?
post #807 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Like most recent big screen displays I expect the overall PQ to improve during the first 100 hours of break-in.

...............................huh? On an LCD array lit by LEDs?

The LCD array does not break in, nor does the LED do anything but potentially fade over time (but not for a long time, and not a along a curve I've ever seen consistent results with.) This was discussed a bit recently over here and in many places in the net.

But look closely at those articles. You'll see either old ones referring to the warm-UP period of CCFL, or the decay of the yellow phosphor. Yellow is one of the ways blue LED's are converted to "white" ones---there is no spectral white---an LED cannot emit it naturally, in this case they're using a dichromatic approach. Think of Yellow as the additive result of spectral red and spectral green. This results in the Y+B being an RGB output of a dichromatic LED. That yellow can decay over time yielding a weird blue-push I think. But it's mitigated by the natural degrade of the spectral blue LED. It's your guess as to which wins. Note this is different from the RGB stacked approach of LEDs which simply have 3 LEDs with the blue fading first.

So I'm almost positive there is no break in period outside the realm of the psychosomatic. Note: such effects are powerful in nature, so valid in their own way, but it's not anything really happening. Is there a calibrator's link (using equipment) proving otherwise? I'm seriously interested if you find one.
Edited by tgm1024 - 5/28/13 at 9:06am
post #808 of 3974
No idea. On my set this configuration is pretty hot with colors a bit too mellow. Strongly dislike the contrast enhancer and black corrector... washed-out gradations and crushed blacks.
post #809 of 3974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

No idea. On my set this configuration is pretty hot with colors a bit too mellow. Strongly dislike the contrast enhancer and black corrector... washed-out gradations and crushed blacks.

Does vivid or standard have those on by default?
post #810 of 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeelaPo View Post

Bad news....picked up the 70" and watched some hockey. I can see two blobs right in the centre and they are very noticeable. They aren't any other time unless the scene is pretty uniform. Is there anything that can be done? Is it worth calling SONY about it or just returning it to Costco and looking for something else? There doesn't seem to be any clouding or flash lighting which is great but these blobs are not nice to look at. I'm a huge hockey fan so this is not a good thing.

EDIT: Actually there is some light leakage and spotlighting on the bottom right. I also left the TV on for a while and it seemed those blobs were less noticeable.

Where did you pick up the TV on Canada? Costco? I don't see Future Shop or Best Buy carrying this yet north of the border.
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