or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › News Forum › Community News & Polls › Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality? - Page 14

Poll Results: Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality?

 
  • 8% (45)
    Yes, and it was a big improvement
  • 10% (56)
    Yes, but it was only a slight improvement
  • 54% (284)
    No, I did not hear any improvement
  • 25% (132)
    I don't have enough experience to say
517 Total Votes  
post #391 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proficiscor View PostSome nice 12 gauge from monoprice is all I need smile.gif

I like the Mogami so I can use a single cable which has 4 x 11 AWG 

post #392 of 645
In general I have not heard too much of an improvement except on 2 instances. When I owned Thiel speakers I did notice a difference with cables, with my current Von Schweikerts and Triad speakers I can't say I notice too much. With the Thiels one set of cables I was not able to listen to long before I suffered from listener fatigue but when I switched to Harmonic Technology Truth links and Cardas Cross speaker cables the sound smoothed out and could listen all day. I really am a skeptical person so I went back to my Audioquest cables and interconnects for a week but it just sounded grating and even friends commented on the bright nature. This was before room EQ, it was a straight stereo set-up.

The other time a speaker cable really made a huge difference was when I ordered a pair of the Paul Speltz Anti-Cables. They had received rave reviews and saw a pair from a seller I knew for cheap so I thought I would listen to them to see what the hype was all about. Now as I mentioned I have never heard too much of a difference with cables and my Von Schweikerts, what I ever I used sounded the same, great. I can't even remember what cables I had in place at the time but I replaced those with the Anti-Cables and listened. I was shocked at what I was hearing, I have never heard my speakers sound so bad, not even close to what I was expecting which was not much but I didn't expect the life of the speakers to just go dead. I really never heard my speakers sound so bad and I checked and re-checked to see if I somehow wired them up wrong or something but the Anti-Cables are about the simplest cables to hook up and everything was connected correctly. I kept them in the system for about a week playing music, I don't believe in cable break in but I thought why not. Even after a week they still sounded horrible and that is when I put my old cables back in and the sound came back to life right away. I did contact the seller and tell him about my experience and he said he had the same experience, he was amazed these things got good reviews as well.

I still have some high end cables in my cable box but right now I am just using some 12 awg belden that I terminated my-self and the system sounds great. In general I would say it doesn't make much of a difference but with those 2 experiences I can say for sure that it can make a difference, it is just rare.
post #393 of 645

Crystal Cable’s Absolute Dream cables provide unrivalled performance for todays demanding audio systems, allowing listeners to hear the music and nothing else. The cables are the worlds first to use pure monocrystal metallurgy in both the core and shield for superior sonic performance. The Absolute Dream range features single-ended and balanced interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, and USB and FireWire cables.  The monocrystal silver core of Absolute Dream cables is protected with Kapton and PEEK dielectrics and shielded with layers of silver-plated monocrystal copper and gold-plated monocrystal silver. A transparent sleeve secures the braid, giving the cable its unique appearance. The cables are terminated with Crystal-specified, Furutech carbon connectors marked with laser-engraved serial numbers. Prices: interconnects, $15,000/1m pair; speaker cables, $32,000/2M pair; AC cables,$11,000/1.5M 

 

and if you want more knock yourself out 

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/16/ biggrin.gif

post #394 of 645
HELLO REALITY CHECK HERE.

All,

Firstly let me introduce myself...
Ok this is my first post here. Normally I dont bother posting on forums which are "work related" lets say, but I could not resist this time, seeing that the subject of "special speaker cables" has more or less been on my radar for the last 36 years!
Im an Electronics Enginneer with over 38 years experience, I am involved in electronic design and own an electronics manufacturing company.

Now Im not going to go into great details so let me cut to the chase and clear this up for all those who are none the wiser.

There are only two main factors of any significance in speaker cables, total series resistance and cable inductance. All other parameters,(eg capacitance) are insignificant. Only in extreme stupid conditions would such ever make any difference.

Resistance:
Now, so long as your cable is not something liking to the diameter of a piece of spagetti and has a reasonable diameter like a pencil then the said resistance will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

Inductance:
Now, so long as your cable is not coiled up like a spring nor is some stupid length, the said inductance will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

Notwithstanding the above;
Be it speaker cable or interconnect cable.
NO ADVANCED MATERIALS, NOVEL CONSTRUCTION OR OTHER JUNK WILL MAKE FOR A BETTER CABLE. PERIOD, Subjectivly or scientificly.
If you have any idea what is at each end of the cable (inside the amp/speaker) then it will become apparent that the source and load perturbations and nonlinearities far exceed anything that a simple cable may ever offer.

Anyway, unfortunately there are business's that will sell anything for the sake of $$$ and will find stories to justify such.

Cheers all. Great forum BTW.
GAZ.
post #395 of 645
Agreed 100% how about this !

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J36XR2/


AudioQuest K2 Terminated Speaker Cable - UST 2.44 m Plugs 8' Pair by Audioquest $14,000
post #396 of 645
I have noticed that shorter runs of speaker wire seem to be better than long ones, and that care taken to make sure that the connections are solid seems to be beneficial.

Where I noticed a big improvement of SQ was when I replaced copper RCA cables between my MC cartridge, head amp, and pre amp with silver leads and gold filled connectors.
I can't say that the latter was inherently better than other connections or if my original connections were sub-par. But that is low level signals, and this thread is about speaker wire.

$15,000 speaker wire -- gotta love it. If they can get it more power to them.

I will posit again that as ridiculous as five figure speaker wire sounds, is it any worse than driving a Bentley or Rolls? Surely a nice Lincoln at 10% of the price is plenty good enough, and
in the end all either does is go down the road.

Personally I prefer a bargain to opulence, but if I can get both at the same time I'll do it.

To the buyers of five figure speaker wire -- enjoy! To the sellers -- heh -- In the words of a late great friend of mine -- "You gotta respect a good scam." So to the sellers, you have my respect, but not my purchases.

This is a great discussion. Who could have guessed that people felt so strongly about a couple pieces of wire?
post #397 of 645

Thousands of dollars for copper and plated silver per foot that is a great business with 500% ROI

post #398 of 645

This is even better

 

 

Denon AKDL1 Dedicated Link Cable $9,999! +$4,95 for Shipping

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000I1X6PM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

post #399 of 645
I totally disagree with this. Cables, all from power cords to USB are miracles. The usuall measures like resistance, inductivity, capacity etc. say nothing. The best way to experience like Edison.

I have a PhD microwave university degree, but I began to make audio cables from the ground. I tested a lot of seemingly similar Litz wires, and found by chance the only one which almost perfect as speaker cable. I sold some 50 in Hungary and so far I got only enthusiastic responses. It is cheap, it is thin and sounds very natural, very dynamic.

002a.jpg 163k .jpg file
post #400 of 645
At least the wire I bought was pure silver, no copper at all, the connectors were solid gold. Cheap by today's standards, but I was a student at the time so I kept myself broke.
Those were the days.
post #401 of 645
I got this from a manufactures web site.

There is one respect in which silver is a better material for cable construction than copper: it is slightly (about 5%) less resistive (that is, more conductive) than annealed copper. "Resistance" is the property of any material which causes some of the electricity that flows through it to be converted into heat, and it's fair to say that resistance, in cables, is a bad thing--the less the better. All else being equal, lower resistance ought to be a good thing, and therefore one might think that silver would make for a better cable than copper.
That would indeed be so, but there are some other factors to take into account. First, the resistive loss in high-quality copper cables is already extremely small, because copper, though marginally less conductive than silver, is an extremely conductive metal. For example, a coax center conductor resistance is 6.4 ohms per thousand feet. In a very long home theater run of 50 feet, then, the resistance of the conductor is 0.32 ohms, representing a minuscule cause of signal loss in a 75 ohm impedance video circuit; a solid silver conductor would drop this resistance by about five percent, resulting in a truly infinitesimal improvement.
This infinitesimal improvement might be worth something under extreme circumstances, all else being equal--but all else is rarely equal. First, silver is a more brittle material than copper, compromising the cable's flex-life. To solve this problem, silver is often plated over a copper wire--diminishing the conductivity benefit. Second, the conductivity benefit, as often as not, is offset by a reduction in wire gauge. Going from an 18 AWG conductor to a 20 AWG conductor, for example, results in an increase in resistance of over 50%; this swamps the conductivity benefit of silver, so that an 18 AWG copper conductor is more conductive, not less, than a 20 AWG silver or silver-plated conductor. When the comparison is between full-sized copper cables and silver-plated mini-coax of tiny gauge, like those one sees in many popular silver cable products, there's no contest; full-sized copper cables are dramatically more conductive, silver or no silver.
This is true for speaker cable, double so.
post #402 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

I totally disagree with this. Cables, all from power cords to USB are miracles. The usuall measures like resistance, inductivity, capacity etc. say nothing. The best way to experience like Edison.

I have a PhD microwave university degree, but I began to make audio cables from the ground. I tested a lot of seemingly similar Litz wires, and found by chance the only one which almost perfect as speaker cable. I sold some 50 in Hungary and so far I got only enthusiastic responses. It is cheap, it is thin and sounds very natural, very dynamic.

002a.jpg 163k .jpg file

There is no miracle here, and if you think there is then you are out of your depth.

Litz wires are nice and flexlible and you can buy them easily and sure, the ones made from silver have the lowest resistive loss. Nothing wrong with that.
Litz wire is used for radio frequency applications there the skin effect losses would otherwise become significant. There is NO skin effect at audio freq, thus the use of Litz wire will make no audible difference.
When the cable length is short, using Silver is no advantage compared to copper. It would be difficuilt to measure the difference in resistance. Another point, even if it did have some resistance(say a few percent of the terminating resistance), so what, it still wont make any difference to the signal.
Point is you could use this sort of cable or a regular cable and get the same result.
The focus here should be about some of the mechanical or asthetic advantages of a nice cable, not that the cable by some stroke of black magic sounds better.
post #403 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

I totally disagree with this. Cables, all from power cords to USB are miracles. The usuall measures like resistance, inductivity, capacity etc. say nothing.
If you wish to contradict a well established and tested paradigm, then you need to provide some actual evidence. I see none.

As for miracles, was it like this?

evers-cartoon_zpsa3d7dcad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

The best way to experience like Edison.
I'd rather approach it like Tesla who knew what he was trying to achieve rather than an experimenter trying every permutation hoping for a fluke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

I have a PhD microwave university degree, but I began to make audio cables from the ground. I tested a lot of seemingly similar Litz wires, and found by chance the only one which almost perfect as speaker cable.
There are medical doctors who believe homoeopathy is efficacious. There are idiots in every profession, no matter how well educated.
post #404 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

I totally disagree with this. Cables, all from power cords to USB are miracles.

Perhaps the word amulet would be a better choice.
Quote:
The usually measures like resistance, inductivity, capacity etc. say nothing.

Yes, physics has nothing to say about metaphysics.
Quote:
The best way to experience like Edison.

Interesting comment, given that Edison used scientific measures to guide his work.
Quote:
I have a PhD microwave university degree,

I am unaware of university degrees being given relating to the study of ovens.
Quote:
but I began to make audio cables from the ground. I tested a lot of seemingly similar Litz wires, and found by chance the only one which almost perfect as speaker cable. I sold some 50 in Hungary and so far I got only enthusiastic responses. It is cheap, it is thin and sounds very natural, very dynamic.

Speaking metaphysically, of course.
post #405 of 645
Well those who are lining up their pockets with green from selling pseudo high end cables are laughing all the way to the bank!
post #406 of 645
Huuuh... This is a wrong simile. Ten years before I got frightening singns on my fingers - rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors told me, that there is no cure for this illness, and it will be worse and worse. I search for a doctor, who is rheumatoid expert and a practicing homeopath. After a long investigation she gave me one very small pill. She told me it will stop that very bad illness. And it happened.
post #407 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

Huuuh... This is a wrong simile. Ten years before I got frightening singns on my fingers - rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors told me, that there is no cure for this illness, and it will be worse and worse. I search for a doctor, who is rheumatoid expert and a practicing homeopath. After a long investigation she gave me one very small pill. She told me it will stop that very bad illness. And it happened.
You can believe it 'cured' you but as you have a propensity to believe cables are 'magic', it gets no more credence than the cables claim. Placebo and a desire to stop the pain. Show me a history of it's efficacy in established credible medical journals.

Perhaps understanding the basis of homoeopathy would help.
"The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body, called succussion.[2] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase the remedy's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where none of the original substance remains." Yeah, real effective. Like crystal healing.
post #408 of 645
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil


Anyone that spends money on speaker wire is absolutely a dumb a$$. every scientific principle based double blind study has proved it.
I am rooting for the cable manufacturer however, because as the saying goes, "it is immoral to let a sucker keep his money"
post #409 of 645
I will approach this discussion from a non-scientific point of view. The issue for me is that this hobby of ours would be a dreadful bore if we all owned the same equipment whether if be the same Amp, CD player, or cables. The fun in all of this is the tremendous choice we all are afforded to pick and choose components of our liking regardless of the cost and preceived performance they offer. With all due respect to companies like Monoprice and Blue Jean (I own cables from both), I don't want my system (cables) to be like everyone else on my block. Like some Stepford Wife kinda thing. I want my system to be unique ..reflect my personaqlity to whatever extent that means. If I have friends over and the conversation turns to audio stuff then there is plenty to talk about. We all don't have Acme brand cable such and such.

The fact that many contributors to this forum list their equipment in their signature block tells me that they enjoy this hobby and want to share their enthusiasum (as reflected in their system/componet selection) with others. The fact that for the most part cables may sound the same no matter what the cost does not deter me from wanting to spend a little more money on them. I spent $300 on two 8ft runs of speaker cables (hybrid cooper/silver from Signal cables). My HDMI cables are Audioquest (got them on sale on eBay)..power cords are Pangea as they seem to be the cheapest after market Power cables. Have I spent a hugh some of money on all these cables?. not really. Will it make dramatic improvements in sound quality? Probably not. Will it bring me a higher level of enjoyment and pride? The answer is yes. That is what really matters at the end of the day for me.

Moreoever, audio equipment and accessories are in many respect works of art. This is especially true for speakers for example. I think the design, look and feel of many cables are really beautiful. I am intrigued by the architecture, theory and etc. that went into designing and making of them. Again, I know that the expensive ones may not be better than lamp cord. But, like some painting you really want to have for your living room, that looks like a 5 year old painted it, and which is selling for $5000, you buy it because it appeals to you on whatever level. Well the same kinda thing happens with our hobby doesn't it? A $20 Timex keeps time as good as a $3K Rolex. Depending on the finances and what I like (lots of subjectivity there), I would love to have the XYZ speaker cable that is $200 a foot for example.

So the bottomline for me is that I am not necessarily buying into the snake oil . Rather, I am buying into the craftsmanship and artistry that is reflected in the equipment and accessories I choose to include in my audio system.
post #410 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratloko View Post

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil


Anyone that spends money on speaker wire is absolutely a dumb a$$. every scientific principle based double blind study has proved it.
I am rooting for the cable manufacturer however, because as the saying goes, "it is immoral to let a sucker keep his money"

So if we buy any type of speaker wire we're dumb asses.....why, we should go wireless or something? smile.gif
post #411 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cables View Post

Huuuh... This is a wrong simile. Ten years before I got frightening singns on my fingers - rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors told me, that there is no cure for this illness, and it will be worse and worse. I search for a doctor, who is rheumatoid expert and a practicing homeopath. After a long investigation she gave me one very small pill. She told me it will stop that very bad illness. And it happened.

Please tell us the name of the pill, because you would be a miracle there are no treatment effective for RA and especially a pill smile.gif
post #412 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohrbrcko View Post

I will approach this discussion from a non-scientific point of view........

So the bottomline for me is that I am not necessarily buying into the snake oil . Rather, I am buying into the craftsmanship and artistry that is reflected in the equipment and accessories I choose to include in my audio system.

As long as you go in with your eyes open, and recognize the fact that you pay for a name and packaging! I personally like good looking equipment!
post #413 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohrbrcko View Post

Moreoever, audio equipment and accessories are in many respect works of art. This is especially true for speakers for example. I think the design, look and feel of many cables are really beautiful. I am intrigued by the architecture, theory and etc. that went into designing and making of them. Again, I know that the expensive ones may not be better than lamp cord. But, like some painting you really want to have for your living room, that looks like a 5 year old painted it, and which is selling for $5000, you buy it because it appeals to you on whatever level. Well the same kinda thing happens with our hobby doesn't it? A $20 Timex keeps time as good as a $3K Rolex. Depending on the finances and what I like (lots of subjectivity there), I would love to have the XYZ speaker cable that is $200 a foot for example.

Very well said.

I refer to my power cables as my "Audio Jewelry" and have been asked more than a few times if they make a difference in SQ and I always answer "I don't think so, they just look good"
They always garner a reaction when anyone sees them and I really like the build quality but my eyes and ears are wide open.
post #414 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

So if we buy any type of speaker wire we're dumb asses.....why, we should go wireless or something? smile.gif

I think he is pretty much saying we should go around dumpster diving looking for any form of conductor we can use for speaker wire, any amount of money spent is for dumb asses biggrin.gif
post #415 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I think he is pretty much saying we should go around dumpster diving looking for any form of conductor we can use for speaker wire, any amount of money spent is for dumb asses biggrin.gif

Let me guess y
post #416 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratloko View Post

Let me guess you bought expensive wire. Then read the article and now feel like the dumb a$$ I described yes? Listen I don't blame you for being upset. I would be too for being taken for a ride. Go ahead an vent a little
, we don't mind smile.gif
post #417 of 645
Oh no, you sure did get me ratloko, I am so embarrassed now. I am going to now just cut off the ends of old cell phone chargers and slice them together for speaker cables so I don't feel like a dumb ass, thanks rolleyes.gif
post #418 of 645
Strange or not to you I do not know anything about that - not pill - in Homeopathy there are remedies. I took it, and now after several years I can use my hands well.

But do not turn away from the topik: Exotic cables which improve the sound quality. Is there anybody who interested to test a really thin very cheap, but very good speaker cable?
post #419 of 645
Perused this forum for the first time. Lively discussions, enjoy reading them.This may have been posted several times before, apologies, I have only read through the most recent pages.

But here is an excellent reference from a chief engineer at McIntosh. This is updated regularly (last in 2012) so current.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
post #420 of 645
I guess the argument over audiophile cables and those that say a wire is just a wire will live on forever. I can only give my personal experience. I have a 30 year old audiophile system including studio monitor speakers and and an acoustically treated room. Over the years I have had a number of different cables installed. Originally I had some heavy zip cord for speaker wire. Then I went to multi-strand phone cable with no difference in sound. Then about 13 years ago I bought some Kimber Kable and it was like night and day. The clarity and openness of the sound was obvious even for my wife who usually claimed not to hear differences in equipment. I have had similar experiences with good quality interconnects. I steer away from expensive and over hyped cables, but I am convinced that properly designed cables make a difference over a straight piece of wire. I is not so much the quality of the wire it self as it is the construction or topology of the cable. You don't have to have crazy expensive cables, just well engineered and constructed and that will cost a little more.
In the end, you are entitled to you own opinion, but this has been my experience that a cable with the proper topology can make an audible difference in a highly acurate audio system. I can hear a difference and it is more than subtle.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Community News & Polls
AVS › AVS Forum › News Forum › Community News & Polls › Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality?