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Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality? - Page 20

Poll Results: Have You Heard Exotic Audio Cables Improve Sound Quality?

 
  • 8% (45)
    Yes, and it was a big improvement
  • 10% (56)
    Yes, but it was only a slight improvement
  • 54% (284)
    No, I did not hear any improvement
  • 25% (132)
    I don't have enough experience to say
517 Total Votes  
post #571 of 645
But Magic wires are so cool! Remember this one Denon AKDL1

http://www.cepro.com/article/denons_500_cat_5_cable_solves_global_warming/

And then there is also this Pear Audio http://www.pearcable.com/sub_products_anjou.htm

I think I am going to make my own cable company and call it BANANA AUDIO smile.gif
post #572 of 645
No not cool, they just sound good , Oh and I just sold 2 power cables , and I got one for my pre/pro that sounded better in my setup than the more expensive one , which is only to show it's not about price but actually taking the time to evaluate the cable in your system (which I hope your familiar with its sound and should be able to perceive a change) and determine by listening is it better overall fidelity or not , the result is I can have my very own personal absolute sound .

So here's a good question, how many since this thread started sold all there aftermarket cables biggrin.gif
post #573 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalling View Post


Oh, yeah, no difference in HDMI cables? idiot statement... dgital connections have always had problems with timing, jitter, and the need for error correction... what makes you think they fixed that with HDMI? Talk to an engineer who develops error correction circuits, he will tell you. Ever watched a left to right pan on a DVD and saw the screen judder across instead of being smooth?... swap out a $100 Audioquest 2 meter for the $30 junko you had in place and the pan suddenly was smooth?... what do you think caused that? it had all the same ones and zeros...

I'm going to borrow an experiment that a member here introduced at another forum.

I'll take a computer. Put two ATI display cards in it. Get a nice display with dual HDMI inputs. Calibrate each input and mirror displays. I'll take a 6ft $20 BJC HDMI cable. You bring what ever 6ft cable you want regardless of price.

You won't know which cable is which. You will have the remote and can A/B to your hearts content. With each press of the button mark which cable is which. Since you will obviously know which cable is the premium pick you won't have any sighted/one on one evaluation prior.

Use the demo clips from http://www.h264info.com/clips.html and also some high resolution photographs.

Let me know what kind of $$ you want to play for.
post #574 of 645
Appreciate your honesty and am glad you heard a difference with the better cables and that you're enjoying the sound now. I've not experimented with cables but am currently into headphones, there is a tangible difference there for sure. Went from Senn HD280 pro to HiFan HE400 wow is all I can say. In your istuation, the sound is very particular and you will notice it very clearly, I was never such a believer, but after reading your post, there might be something to this thing with upgraded more expensive cables.
Cheers
post #575 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalling View Post


Oh, yeah, no difference in HDMI cables? idiot statement... dgital connections have always had problems with timing, jitter, and the need for error correction... what makes you think they fixed that with HDMI? Talk to an engineer who develops error correction circuits, he will tell you. Ever watched a left to right pan on a DVD and saw the screen judder across instead of being smooth?... swap out a $100 Audioquest 2 meter for the $30 junko you had in place and the pan suddenly was smooth?... what do you think caused that? it had all the same ones and zeros...
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

I'm going to borrow an experiment that a member here introduced at another forum.

I'll take a computer. Put two ATI display cards in it. Get a nice display with dual HDMI inputs. Calibrate each input and mirror displays. I'll take a 6ft $20 BJC HDMI cable. You bring what ever 6ft cable you want regardless of price.

You won't know which cable is which. You will have the remote and can A/B to your hearts content. With each press of the button mark which cable is which. Since you will obviously know which cable is the premium pick you won't have any sighted/one on one evaluation prior.

Use the demo clips from http://www.h264info.com/clips.html and also some high resolution photographs.

Let me know what kind of $$ you want to play for.

That's how you do it folks. Crickets.
post #576 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalling View Post


Oh, yeah, no difference in HDMI cables? idiot statement... dgital connections have always had problems with timing, jitter, and the need for error correction... what makes you think they fixed that with HDMI? Talk to an engineer who develops error correction circuits, he will tell you. Ever watched a left to right pan on a DVD and saw the screen judder across instead of being smooth?... swap out a $100 Audioquest 2 meter for the $30 junko you had in place and the pan suddenly was smooth?... what do you think caused that? it had all the same ones and zeros...
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

I'm going to borrow an experiment that a member here introduced at another forum.

I'll take a computer. Put two ATI display cards in it. Get a nice display with dual HDMI inputs. Calibrate each input and mirror displays. I'll take a 6ft $20 BJC HDMI cable. You bring what ever 6ft cable you want regardless of price.

You won't know which cable is which. You will have the remote and can A/B to your hearts content. With each press of the button mark which cable is which. Since you will obviously know which cable is the premium pick you won't have any sighted/one on one evaluation prior.

Use the demo clips from http://www.h264info.com/clips.html and also some high resolution photographs.

Let me know what kind of $$ you want to play for.

That's how you do it folks. Crickets.

Works every time! biggrin.gif
post #577 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

No not cool, they just sound good , Oh and I just sold 2 power cables , and I got one for my pre/pro that sounded better in my setup than the more expensive one , which is only to show it's not about price but actually taking the time to evaluate the cable in your system (which I hope your familiar with its sound and should be able to perceive a change) and determine by listening is it better overall fidelity or not , the result is I can have my very own personal absolute sound.

So here's a good question, how many since this thread started sold all there aftermarket cables biggrin.gif
Well which is it? Better fidelity or personal absolute sound i.e. adapted to your taste? If it's about accuracy than your personal listening test is absolutely meaningless.
post #578 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Well which is it? Better fidelity or personal absolute sound i.e. adapted to your taste? If it's about accuracy than your personal listening test is absolutely meaningless.

They are one in the same, absolute meaning, content personally with the current state of my gear ( cables included) and who said anything about accuracy as the gear and proper setup itself will take care of that, now Fidelty is the pursuit and once good gear and proper setup is achieved not paying attention to the details no matter how small, can indeed get you to a Higher Fidelity

Meaningless? no! time and money well spent as it re enforces the first two wink.gif
post #579 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Well which is it? Better fidelity or personal absolute sound i.e. adapted to your taste? If it's about accuracy than your personal listening test is absolutely meaningless.

They are one in the same, absolute meaning, content personally with the current state of my gear ( cables included) and who said anything about accuracy as the gear and proper setup itself will take care of that, now Fidelty is the pursuit and once good gear and proper setup is achieved not paying attention to the details no matter how small, can indeed get you to a Higher Fidelity

Meaningless? no! time and money well spent as it re enforces the first two wink.gif
You are one to miss a point, I see. The definition of 'fidelity' is accuracy. The definition of 'personal' is relating to an individual (person). So a sound system either has 'fidelity' or is 'personal'. It can not be both.
post #580 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Well which is it? Better fidelity or personal absolute sound i.e. adapted to your taste? If it's about accuracy than your personal listening test is absolutely meaningless.

They are one in the same, absolute meaning, content personally with the current state of my gear ( cables included) and who said anything about accuracy as the gear and proper setup itself will take care of that, now Fidelty is the pursuit and once good gear and proper setup is achieved not paying attention to the details no matter how small, can indeed get you to a Higher Fidelity

Meaningless? no! time and money well spent as it re enforces the first two wink.gif

One in the same? You mean one and the same? smile.gif

The rest of it makes no sense, though. Not even a "good effort" on trying to save on the high fidelity thing.
post #581 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

You are one to miss a point, I see. The definition of 'fidelity' is accuracy. The definition of 'personal' is relating to an individual (person). So a sound system either has 'fidelity' or is 'personal'. It can not be both.

Lte's just say for the sake of things , I started with cables patched together with duct tape electric tape that same run to my speakers may have contained 16awg 14awg and who knows what ever I had around to get the job done ( those were the good old days and I mean that wink.gif ) As time moved on I got a spool of cable from RS to make solid runs, later I tried some monster stuff speaker and IC's and not to long there after I tried my first power cable which happened to be a PS Audio Micro Lab and the rest my friend is history and after many years at trying various cables, I learned they indeed bring something to the table. Now as for accuracy and fidelity my gear will faithfully reproduce what's on the recording so I'm set there.

I guess that leaves personal, well the selection of the gear cables etc ...and how its setup (positioning, rake, toe etc...) how loud its played back all kinds of things make it personal but if your sticking with Webster on it then no you can't both . but as an individual and because of the said choices I made I do indeed have both tongue.gif
post #582 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

One in the same? You mean one and the same? smile.gif

The rest of it makes no sense, though. Not even a "good effort" on trying to save on the high fidelity thing.

Thanks teach! Not trying save anything and please do tell in your own words what it means to you ?
post #583 of 645
You want to have fun with your educated salesman? lol Build your own power cable. Approx total cost $50.00 make sure you cover with a "pretty jacket" shrink wrap and use decent "black" wattgate" end. A 2 Meter cable should do. Then just for show you can use black duct tape to cover some of the remaining cable. Make it appear you are covering the "brand name". Tell the salesman you would like to compare your "expensive" cable against his brand. Swamp the cable between the amp or transport and let the salesman explain the difference he claims to here. When your audition is over you can either unravel the tape exposing a cheap DIY cable or walk out pretending to be astounded and amazed..... FYI, I actually did the prank while (Transparent Audio) was telling our group.. 20+ potential buyers why we should buy expensive cable, INCLUDING mine. At the end of the auditions (McIntosh, Krell, B&W, Wadia, were also showing their new toys) I showed the salesperson my cheap DIY cable. He stated I must have used expensive copper cable and "better" wattgate end that a typical off the shelf power cord. ummmm, really,,,, that's the best you've got!
p.s I did NOT disgrace him in front of everyone, but anyone within listening distance heard. sooo, explain that one MR. EXPENSIVE CABLES HAVE A DISTINCT AUDIO DIFFERENCE!. But, don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Feel free to use speaker wire or I.C. too.. post your results. smile.gif
post #584 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

You want to have fun with your educated salesman? lol Build your own power cable. Approx total cost $50.00 make sure you cover with a "pretty jacket" shrink wrap and use decent "black" wattgate" end. A 2 Meter cable should do. Then just for show you can use black duct tape to cover some of the remaining cable. Make it appear you are covering the "brand name". Tell the salesman you would like to compare your "expensive" cable against his brand. Swamp the cable between the amp or transport and let the salesman explain the difference he claims to here. When your audition is over you can either unravel the tape exposing a cheap DIY cable or walk out pretending to be astounded and amazed..... FYI, I actually did the prank while (Transparent Audio) was telling our group.. 20+ potential buyers why we should buy expensive cable, INCLUDING mine. At the end of the auditions (McIntosh, Krell, B&W, Wadia, were also showing their new toys) I showed the salesperson my cheap DIY cable. He stated I must have used expensive copper cable and "better" wattgate end that a typical off the shelf power cord. ummmm, really,,,, that's the best you've got!
p.s I did NOT disgrace him in front of everyone, but anyone within listening distance heard. sooo, explain that one MR. EXPENSIVE CABLES HAVE A DISTINCT AUDIO DIFFERENCE!. But, don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Feel free to use speaker wire or I.C. too.. post your results. smile.gif

????? why are you guys still equating money with aftermarket cables some are pretty affordable ( which is relative in the first place) and happen to sound really good!
post #585 of 645
I agree 100% audiofan1. A previous post stated an audio difference can indeed be heard but only when you use expensive equipment and expensive speakers. If you do, then YOU need expensive cable in order to hear and achieve the TRUE potential of your audio system.. Explain to me why and educated salesperson could not hear ANY audio difference between a stock power cable and HIS companies own power cable. For the person stating you require expensive audio equipment, are Krell, McIntosh amps with B&W 800D and Wilson Alexandria speakers expensive enough? Simply stating you do NOT need to spend $1,000's or cable just because you own a $40,00 plus audio system. Even generic power cords, RCA, and XLR's will work just fine.
If your cables and equipment is exposed, the by all means make it "pretty" A $5 watch tells time the same as a $5,000 watch but for some its about the name and appearance. For each their own, that's what we work for. I just don't appreciate people making claims that are NOT true. Just like we learned in school.... be prepared to show your work...ie facts. biggrin.gif Great conversation though.. This topic never gets old..
post #586 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

I agree 100% audiofan1. A previous post stated an audio difference can indeed be heard but only when you use expensive equipment and expensive speakers. If you do, then YOU need expensive cable in order to hear and achieve the TRUE potential of your audio system.. Explain to me why and educated salesperson could not hear ANY audio difference between a stock power cable and HIS companies own power cable. For the person stating you require expensive audio equipment, are Krell, McIntosh amps with B&W 800D and Wilson Alexandria speakers expensive enough? Simply stating you do NOT need to spend $1,000's or cable just because you own a $40,00 plus audio system. Even generic power cords, RCA, and XLR's will work just fine.
If your cables and equipment is exposed, the by all means make it "pretty" A $5 watch tells time the same as a $5,000 watch but for some its about the name and appearance. For each their own, that's what we work for. I just don't appreciate people making claims that are NOT true. Just like we learned in school.... be prepared to show your work...ie facts. biggrin.gif Great conversation though.. This topic never gets old..


Yes indeed sir, it never get's old smile.gif don't get me wrong , good looks don't hurt. over the last couple of years I've been swapping out my AQ line for some of Mike Morrow's cables which in comparison are on par with DIY in the looks department but are extremely well made ( hand made in fact) to the like it would take me a few times to match them, these cables have challenged all that I knew about cables and are far less in cost to the more well known brands and you would need their best stuff to compete. As I've tried to explain its not about the money but the sound and if i could have it for less bring it on, but the whole just anything will due dismissal take on it , sorry I just can't get down with that, I've learned better. it's like trying to interpret "Art" and the right cables have a right system to make it shine the more regardless of system cost or cable cost, just to bad not everyone can be an artist biggrin.gif
post #587 of 645
... speaker wire artist... hmmmm... lots of possibilities there...
Is it anything like painting "happy trees" ?
post #588 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

... speaker wire artist... hmmmm... lots of possibilities there...
Is it anything like painting "happy trees" ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

... speaker wire artist... hmmmm... lots of possibilities there...
Is it anything like painting "happy trees" ?

Just like a Master Chef knowing the right ingredients. No magic, no fairy dust . Just a unique skill that some seem to have but not many biggrin.gif Why you guys always equate things to magic or some whimsical belief is beyond me at times, as I would need to lie to myself to say it doesn't matter or can indeed make a profound difference! And its really ok if you don't hear a difference as I will only post my experiences on the matter, but if I start making little snide remarks you might not like it so much! But since this a forum where adults discuss things one would hope that kind of stuff is unnecessary, don't you think?
post #589 of 645
I did find an interconnect pair that rolled off high frequencies in a bias controlled test we did several years ago. It had amazingly high inductance upon measurement. So I can't say I heard a cable that improved sound, I did find one once that altered sound.
post #590 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post


Just like a Master Chef knowing the right ingredients. No magic, no fairy dust . Just a unique skill that some seem to have but not many biggrin.gif

Actually, we all have the skill. It is called hearing bias. It affects every human.
post #591 of 645
Quote:
Just like a Master Chef knowing the right ingredients. No magic, no fairy dust . Just a unique skill that some seem to have but not many

Cooking can be explained with chemistry, just like electrical engineering can explain why a power cord won't make a difference to the sound an amplifier makes.
post #592 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I did find an interconnect pair that rolled off high frequencies in a bias controlled test we did several years ago. It had amazingly high inductance upon measurement. So I can't say I heard a cable that improved sound, I did find one once that altered sound.

That's the point I'm trying to make, any cable change will induce an alteration to the sound this will depend on how familiar one is with their setup and the recording being played back , its careful listening, not blind and it takes time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Actually, we all have the skill. It is called hearing bias. It affects every human.

No we don't all have it,which is why some are described as casual listeners and some we term audiophiles as we take more of an keen interest in the reproduction of music and go to great lengths to do so. sometimes we can agree on something and sometimes we don't . a good example of bias with facts in place lets say that we agree a spacious or distant sounding recording is just that and there are some captured that way ( RR Rachmaninoff's symphonic Dances / Eiji Oue) the bias is only if one prefers this sound or not which some don't , and I just happen to like it. Does this affect whether the cables had a role to play, this is where the skill comes into play, knowing the recording and extracting more from the playback , if a cable diminishes ( rolls of highs or muddies the bass or even recess the midrange) this then its a no go! and you should if you heard it, now if it keeps the all things in tact from the stock cables or whatever your reference is and allows you to hear more detail, longer decay , tighter bass etc... then you may have found ( insert bias here) something you like but you have to have the skill, by saying they all sound the same or it doesn't matter says you don't wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Cooking can be explained with chemistry, just like electrical engineering can explain why a power cord won't make a difference to the sound an amplifier makes.

Synergy is a listening thing, the above can on only tell what it should do or taste like, but in the end the Ears have the final say where cables or concerned!
post #593 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

That's the point I'm trying to make, any cable change will induce an alteration to the sound this will depend on how familiar one is with their setup and the recording being played back , its careful listening, not blind and it takes time.
No we don't all have it,which is why some are described as casual listeners and some we term audiophiles as we take more of an keen interest in the reproduction of music and go to great lengths to do so. sometimes we can agree on something and sometimes we don't . a good example of bias with facts in place lets say that we agree a spacious or distant sounding recording is just that and there are some captured that way ( RR Rachmaninoff's symphonic Dances / Eiji Oue) the bias is only if one prefers this sound or not which some don't , and I just happen to like it. Does this affect whether the cables had a role to play, this is where the skill comes into play, knowing the recording and extracting more from the playback , if a cable diminishes ( rolls of highs or muddies the bass or even recess the midrange) this then its a no go! and you should if you heard it, now if it keeps the all things in tact from the stock cables or whatever your reference is and allows you to hear more detail, longer decay , tighter bass etc... then you may have found ( insert bias here) something you like but you have to have the skill, by saying they all sound the same or it doesn't matter says you don't wink.gif
Synergy is a listening thing, the above can on only tell what it should do or taste like, but in the end the Ears have the final say where cables or concerned!

You don't understand what I meant by hearing bias but I can assure you we all have it. It is the phenomenon that our brain displays by having things other than the sound itself affect our perception of it. I mean things like expectation or desire. If you expect one cable to produce a better perception of the sound, then it surely will. The sound won't change but your perception of the sound certainly will. Been there, done that for over 50 years.

In my bias controlled listening tests of years ago we determined that being familiar with well reproduced sound doesn't improve one's hearing in bias controlled tests. We are all audiophiles or casual listeners as you prefer to the same degree once our biases are removed. Hearing involves the brain and our brain fools us all the time. I recommend you watch a TV program called Brain Games. You will be astounded by how our brains affect our perceptions and our senses.
post #594 of 645
"brains affect our perceptions and our sense" yes just read a few papers

http://www.jneurosci.org/search?fulltext=brains+affect+our+perceptions+and+our+sense&submit=yes&x=0&y=0

It might help!
post #595 of 645
I've seen Brain games and understand your point smile.gif, what happens if you expect a cable or any component to sound good and it doesn't ? But after learning how and what to listen for has worked for me, as I go to great lengths to convince myself not to spend and will try to find fault before the merits and once the faults have been or haven't been noted do I begin my evaluation. I've posted before my preference for a stock cord to a highly touted aftermarket one, that being the stock from my Parasound Halo amp worked very well on my preamp but an PS Audio AC12 was breath taking on the amp and there it remains. You can play Brain games all you want or attribute this or that perception or anything you want, I'm not fooled ! I'm sold on what they bring to the table wink.gif
post #596 of 645
Then you're a good, loyal audiophile. I was like that for a long time so I understand.
post #597 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I've seen Brain games and understand your point smile.gif, what happens if you expect a cable or any component to sound good and it doesn't ?

This is a question that appears to me to be chock full of denial of the true verifiable fact which that as a rule the cable can't and doesn't change the sound.

It seems to ignore the fact that components vary greatly in their potential to change the sound of a system. The order of probable change is:

(most probable)
The recording you are playing
The room
The speakers
(beyond here probability is zero or near zero for good components)
Amplifiers
Signal processors unless you change default adjustments
Signal sources, particularly if connected via digital lines
Cables
(least probable)
Quote:
But after learning how and what to listen for has worked for me, as I go to great lengths to convince myself not to spend and will try to find fault before the merits and once the faults have been or haven't been noted do I begin my evaluation.

How do you know that you have learned how and what to listen for?
Quote:
I've posted before my preference for a stock cord to a highly touted aftermarket one, that being the stock from my Parasound Halo amp worked very well on my preamp but an PS Audio AC12 was breath taking on the amp and there it remains.

What sort of cord? Exactly which cords?

Quote:
You can play Brain games all you want...

I think you may have missed the point. We all play brain games. We are held hostage by our brains. Our perceptions are filtered and colored by our thoughts. You, me, Him. True objectivity is exceedingly hard to obtain, particularly without helps.
Quote:
...attribute this or that perception or anything you want,

It's not about him. It is about the one who has probably been led astray by his biases which he now denies.
Quote:
I'm not fooled ! I'm sold on what they bring to the table wink.gif

After considerable scientific examination of the issue, both technical and subjective, being sold is usually being fooled.
post #598 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Then you're a good, loyal audiophile. I was like that for a long time so I understand.

As was I. Charter subscriber to Stereophile and near-charter subscriber to TAS.
post #599 of 645
It was an interesting road for me, Arny. Remember a publication called Golden Ears? Back in the days of the usenet groups I read a review of a Toslink digital cable that raved about its sonic characteristics. I kept asking how a toslink cable changes the value of the binary digits when every cable in my computer manages to get them right about 100% of the time. The only answer I got back was the jitter argument. So I got busy reading everything I could about jitter and didn't see any logical application for it to digital audio other than that provided by the high end audiophile community. I'm not a scientist but I am educated and able to read and question. So I set out to test some toslink cables and, oddly enough, every single one of them got every single digit correct. All it took was two computers and a little programming. That motivated me to move on to analog cables and I did a long and boring bias controlled test with my wife and a drawer full of cables I borrowed from an audio dealer friend. The conclusion was that analog cables have no affect whatsoever on sonics unless they are designed to do so. Only one pair in the drawerful was designed to do so. That led me to get my audiophile society to get involved in bias controlled tests of nearly everything. To make a long story short, the audiophile society no longer exists and virtually all of us have become happy mid fi listeners.

Like you, I would really like to see more people get involved in bias controlled testing. It is fussy and boring but amazingly revealing and a serious budget saver. I once had a system that cost more than both my cars combined. I would never let that happen again. Just thinking back on it angers me. But the audiophilia is completely cured. I no longer have the expectation bias and rarely hear things in audio systems that aren't actually there. It is similar to the freedom I gained when I quit smoking. Highly recommended. Keep up the good work.
post #600 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

As was I. Charter subscriber to Stereophile and near-charter subscriber to TAS.

So how did you vote in this poll?
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