Unofficial "End Of Upgradeitis" front stage build - Page 2

ba, that is what the typical receiver will apply for a high pass crossover setting.

I have no idea as I don't use WinISD. Buuuuttt...umm, why? With an 80hz cross on a TD15M you'll need hundreds of watts of power to get it to Xmax above 80hz.

Model it full range sealed with a non-rising excursion profile. Then you'll be able to go full range with nary an issue. Or whatever.

Bass Addict: If I were you, I would go ported because you can always plug the ports to experiment with different configurations, where as if you go sealed, you won't be able to easily switch back and forth to ported in order to see which configuration you like.

I also agree with Scott about running the mains full range with the LFE+ option. I run my mains like that, and I absolutely love the way it sounds.

I don't use WinISD, but here it is in Unibox.
68L net sealed, 500W, 2nd order BW HPF. Perfect.

Yeah. That's why I wouldn't do that. Although I'm more biased to the sealed option so I just don't see any benefit using them in any vented alignment. If these were designed to work on their own with no subwoofer in the audio system that's one thing but for HT it's pointless to go vented on the mains. Everybody just crosses anyway. It's your choice and I'll support anyone and what they want to do. This is just my advice to you or anyone else.

EDIT: Oh nice. Thanks Alpha Niner. That looks good! Look at all that extra bass you can throw into the room if you didn't cross.

THis thread should not exist, no such thing as end of upgradeitis, or is that just me.

Quoted for truth.

My Denon 4311, JBL, and Submersive setup was exceptional and I felt I was good for years. Here I am a year later and it will now be replaced with a Sherwood R-972, XPA-5, Dual SI 18's, and SEOS TD12X towers. I'm sure I'll have an upgraded setup next year too. There is no end!

I never used the front height and wide channels. When I used the front heights, it didn't add much.

I use the R-972 as a pre-pro with an XPA-5, and it is unreal. Trinnov is absolutely amazing and has to be heard at least once if you never heard what it can do before. XT32 does a little bit better EQ wise, but Trinnov corrects my poor speaker placement in my room, levels out the sound so it seems even, creates a seamless 3D effect making the speakers disappear, and makes dialog seem to come out from the TV itself instead of from the center channel below the TV. It was $299 on a 1saleaday deal. Huge bargain.

This is with a JBL 190 series. Adding SEOS speakers into this will just be bonkers.

John knows his stuff but I still disagree with the use out of ....my own sense.

What is there to gain using a vented alignment on a set of speakers you're going to cross well above tuning? What is the point? If anything, the design is larger, more complex, has a higher order roll off, has introduced a port resonance and if anything only adds SPL within less than an octave where your current six 18" subwoofer system will best in that area anyway.

I really don't see the point. If you go sealed don't cross. Let them run full range. You'll get the superior midbass from the TD's and the actual capable deep bass from your subwoofer system which will annihilate your TD's vented anyway. It's a smaller, simpler build which is what you need in your cramped space.

Hey, it's fine with me if you don't want to go this route. It's against the grain of knowledge that everyone follows blindly for decades but everyone does it so it's correct. Lol.

Somehow I think you'll enjoy the system either way you go.

Scott
I have a question that mabey you can answer. I ordered The TD12M so I could use the 2.0 cu ft flatpacks from Erich.What would be the differences between using the 3 port design vs the slot port vs Sealed. I am also using the BMS 4550 with the SEOS 12 so I will have to have a crossover designed/built anyway so I am curious as to what is best for my purpose Sealed or ported. Sealed seams to be easiest and they will be used as my SS and RS crossed over at 60hz to 80 hz to a pair of SubM HP's. My T12's are the vented so I am hoping to pull off a 60hz Crossover point.
Thanks for any answers from anyone
Chris

Aren't you going to power them with your AVR anyway?


There will be no difference between using a port or slot or whatever as long as the tune is the same and the vent has the same cross section area. Sealed seems like a good choice if you're crossing them to subs.

Basically, I agree with this.
But not with this. Leaving the 15M to run full range will cause extra distortion well up into the midrange by causing it to excurse more than it needs to when loud below band signals are present. Running it overlapping may also cause phasing and placement issues with the subs. Cross it over correctly.

I feel that the idea of running full range allows for a better integration with a subwoofer system. Not worse. Extra distortion during 'below band signals'? Yeah maybe but how bad in reality especially with AE's TD series?

I guess maybe I see it differently but it shouldn't be an issue whatsoever on my mega build since I'll have four 15's, not one and only run them up to ~300hz and not 1.2khz. So... maybe Alpha Niner has a point. However!... you can still give it a shot and see how you like it. It's just a simple button press in a menu somewhere.

Not my experience. Smaller higher frequency signals will still be superimposed upon the larger signals, so in that circumstance the smaller signals will be the ones being most greatly distorted by the falling Bl curve. They only have 6mm Xmax.

I see.

Good info for this thread. Thanks.

AE TD15M has 6mm Xmax while the AE TD15X has 14mm Xmax. Should use the X series to run full range.
Chris

It won't matter if the driver has 30mm of Xmax. The extra travel will cause what's called IMD or Inter Modulation Distortion.

However, I would agree otherwise.

C) Play around with ALL settings including using full range, LFE+Main mode and experimenting with various crossover points.



The end results to the user are more important than measured results, imho. It's all about the end user and how he/she likes how their system sounds. Experiment. Don't settle on cookie cutter presets.

Minimal, eh? Sounds like a minimal amount of concern to me.

Just imagine how bad it would be if they were vented. Yeah.

Wouldn't even be an option but what look at the wonder knowledgable me has brought to your systems capability.

Jk. Honestly, how often are you going to be pushing +100w into these? "End of Upgradeitis", hmmm.... maybe should be using two or more 15's per side.

What should I call my sysytem then since you stole that thunder? 'End of .....my house and my face.' Lol!


Nahh... you're doing good. I think you're thinking about it too much though. Just decide if you want sealed or vented or whatever. I push for sealed because it means a smaller enclosure, which is good for your situation and also because there is nothing to gain with a vented one.

Yeah. The surround build might be more challenging than this considering. I'd put that off until you get this all figured out. No need to grow grey hairs just yet.

Sealed still sounds good to me. Leaves room for more 15's underneath if you feel like going hybrid active/passive in the future.

I said it in the post with the graphs. 80Hz, 2nd order Butterworth high pass, 500W applied.
And what benefit do you get from having the extra outout below 80Hz with the ported? Youll have a lump in the response you'll need to EQ out.

Besides a 2nd order sealed Q=0.707 is a BW2 slope. Add another BW2 slope from the electronic xover and you have a net acoustic roll off in my model of a LR4. Add a LR4 LPF at 80Hz for the subs and set levels and distances and you have correct integration midbass to subs and will only need to work on what the room is doing to the lot.