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WD Red vs WD Green vs Seagate 3TB Hard Drive Speeds - Page 7

post #181 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What are we arguing about again ???

I forgot... Lol.

Well, the fact that higher density has definite performance advantages is being disputed for some reason. It is also true that you should just check the benchmarks instead of worrying about the speed or density.

The real point of this thread is that the seagate 7200rpm drives outperform the WD greens but it doesn't really matter in a media server.

Basically the conclusion is to buy the cheaper drive, which at this point in time is normally Seagate but tomorrow it could be the WD green or Hitachi etc.
post #182 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

....it doesn't really matter in a media server....buy the cheaper drive
That's always been my opinion in terms of a simple storage drive.
post #183 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Well, the fact that higher density has definite performance advantages is being disputed for some reason
  • Definite performance advantages? yes
  • Inconclusively definite advantage? no
  • Relevant (>5%) performance advantage? not definitively in relevant-to-media-server testing

Basically I'm just saying that 3vs5 platter designs are not the holy-grail of HDD designs
post #184 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What are we arguing about again ???

I forgot... Lol.

Well, the fact that higher density has definite performance advantages is being disputed for some reason. It is also true that you should just check the benchmarks instead of worrying about the speed or density.

The real point of this thread is that the seagate 7200rpm drives outperform the WD greens but it doesn't really matter in a media server.

Basically the conclusion is to buy the cheaper drive, which at this point in time is normally Seagate but tomorrow it could be the WD green or Hitachi etc.


Lol. Well summed up.
post #185 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Well, the fact that higher density has definite performance advantages is being disputed for some reason
  • Definite performance advantages? yes
  • Inconclusively definite advantage? no
  • Relevant (>5%) performance advantage? not definitively in relevant-to-media-server testing

Basically I'm just saying that 3vs5 platter designs are not the holy-grail of HDD designs

Keep in mind technological progress.

In general terms of performance:

Higher density platters > lower density platters
Higher rpm > lower RPM.

But it's not universally true if the MFG intentionally limits performance as to not compete with another product line, or possibly tone it down for reliability. But if they are the same I'd still rather the larger fewer platters but I would not pay extra $ for it.

As the density increases the spindle speed usually decreases. This is because there needs to be enough time to read the data. That is why you don't see high capacity 10k or 15k rpm drives.

A 5 TB five platter 7200 RPM drive is going to be a beast... But I am not sure the MFG are quite there yet in terms of balancing performance with reliability.

I like mature products when dealing with data storage. It just makes me feel better. For this reason the proven 3tb triple platter Seagate gets my nod of approval with all other things being equal or assuming its priced well.

I have nothing against 4tb but my parity is only 3tb so I'm just not there yet personally.

Usually the development of HDD goes like this:

Expand current technology platters to increase capacity (like early 3TB drives that used 5 platters if 600GB to get to 3TB )

Then when technology improves you make the move to fewer platters ( like Seagate 3TB new models with 3 1TB platters).

Same story with 4TB that used 5 platters of 800GB to hit 4TB. Then now 4 platters of 1TB.

While generally true the fewer larger platters are preferred for energy profile and performance - the real change is based on economics and economies of scale. The MFG change models based on the newest or current technology or because what platters are being MFG.

A 5 platter of 1TB each 5TB drive is next. Probably 5400rpm first because its easier to control then you'll see the speed jump up with 7200rpm. But sometimes the MFG goes right to 7200rpm.

In my personal experience 7200rpm drives are more reliable. I've owned over 20 of both. I'm not sure why my faster drives last longer though but it's clearly a trend at least for me.

I'd expect the most reliable drives to be faster variants in the general market place too. ( raptor, velociraptor, enterprise etc...)
post #186 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Keep in mind technological progress.

In general terms of performance:

Higher density platters > lower density platters

Everyone can say this until their dying breath, but based on what facts?

I like theory / logic, and I like to know more about it. If there is anything I've ever learned about it over the years, it is simply this: theoretical advancements mean nothing without boundary conditions and relative comparisons. When I previously said that it would show no relevant performance advantage I was automatically using my own set of boundary conditions.

For me (today and some foreseeable future) my boundary condition is typically a file of some size between 1GB and 50GB being either written, moved, copied, or read both locally and over a gig switch. For this set of conditions, the 3x1TB drives and 5x600GB drives do not make a difference. I have both in my flexraid array and have mentioned this previously.

There are several conditions were your statement is 100% correct, but for a videos on a storage server I don't think the difference is even statistically relevant. For anyone in the business of moving lots of directories on a domain containing various file sizes with several 500MB or less, then the improved random i/o performance would be very relevant. However, that doesn't fit the service that I put these drives into
post #187 of 853
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Everyone can say this until their dying breath, but based on what facts?

I like theory / logic, and I like to know more about it. If there is anything I've ever learned about it over the years, it is simply this: theoretical advancements mean nothing without boundary conditions and relative comparisons. When I previously said that it would show no relevant performance advantage I was automatically using my own set of boundary conditions.

For me (today and some foreseeable future) my boundary condition is typically a file of some size between 1GB and 50GB being either written, moved, copied, or read both locally and over a gig switch. For this set of conditions, the 3x1TB drives and 5x600GB drives do not make a difference. I have both in my flexraid array and have mentioned this previously.

There are several conditions were your statement is 100% correct, but for a videos on a storage server I don't think the difference is even statistically relevant. For anyone in the business of moving lots of directories on a domain containing various file sizes with several 500MB or less, then the improved random i/o performance would be very relevant. However, that doesn't fit the service that I put these drives into

Some people get this. Some people don't.

You get it.
post #188 of 853
I am not sure what else to say to you guys. I think I "get it".

I've said like fifty times that I'd buy first on price, and only secondary on the other issues. Assuming price the same and I have a choice I'd rather take the newer larger and fewer platter design HDD. But I'm not paying extra for it.

Aside from that I'm not sure what else to say. I don't manufacture or design HDDs so I can't say with any authority why it why not you might see performance differences in platter design. I'm sure there's many reasons other than just that.

That said I'm certainly not wrong in saying generally:

Higher density platter > smaller for speed
Fewer platters > more platters for energy use.

I'm not sure why your bothering to argue the point in specific detail though. It's probably different for different drives and different reasons.

I do know that regardless or not you think it might make a difference real world that the newer Seagate with fewer 1TB platters often outperforms the 5 platter design in speed while consuming less energy.

My biggest gripe in this whole thread was that I personally view Anand as a generally biased review site with a very clear review preference for the advertisers products on that site. I discredit most of the stuff I read there unless I'm seeing identical data from the other sites I respect a lot more. And using a two generation old HDD against a modern one also seems a bit silly to me if your trying to be objective.

At the end if the day it really doesn't matter if the Seagate is faster or slower or how many platters it has- it really only matters how much it costs. It usually costs less.

If the WD red or green cost less I'd be tempted to grab that instead even though the Seagate is a better performer.
post #189 of 853
Well, I have been watching this with some interest, as I just purchased my first server a couple months ago. Arguments notwithstanding... Newegg has four drives on sale today, that I am interested in. WD 2tb Green for 99, WD 2tb Red for 99, Seagate 2tb with the newer 1tb platters for 89, and now a 3tb 7200.14, for 119...(I think it is older tech, but has HUGE positive reviews, though)
Just looking for a little advice.

I should mention, I purchased a WD green 2 tb a few months ago. I have mostly WD in my arsenal over the years, with zero trouble. I am not a "name brand specific", kind of guy, but it's hard to deviate from a product that you have had good luck with, if you see others have the click of death, or DOA's
post #190 of 853
You can get that 3TB for $99, if the same sales are still active I used - but NewEgg might be a better deal if they are including shipping. Make sure your motherboard supports EFI/UEFI or you can run into headaches on drives over 2TB, at least in my experience.
post #191 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

You can get that 3TB for $99, if the same sales are still active I used - but NewEgg might be a better deal if they are including shipping. Make sure your motherboard supports EFI/UEFI or you can run into headaches on drives over 2TB, at least in my experience.

The only thing that should cause problems is boot drives over 2TB. Someone else might know better though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=X1RV4KOYEeKMHKYqsUvgHA0_aoNW3_0_0_0&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16822178110&cm_sp=

Same 3tb drive just in an external for 110 after promo and free shipping. Open it up and you get a free usb to sata adapter on top of the hdd.

This hdd worked fine on a non-efi board for me.
post #192 of 853
Interesting. Don't know what the issue was for me, but I solved it when I got all the EFI stuff working correctly. Might have just been something I did. smile.gif I had a 765gb section of hard drive I could not do anything with until I got everything in order.
post #193 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Interesting. Don't know what the issue was for me, but I solved it when I got all the EFI stuff working correctly. Might have just been something I did. smile.gif I had a 765gb section of hard drive I could not do anything with until I got everything in order.

You probably used mbr instead of gpt.
post #194 of 853
Yep, but at first GPT wasn't an option. Took way too many steps to get it working right. It is now though, that's all that matters. smile.gif
post #195 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Interesting. Don't know what the issue was for me, but I solved it when I got all the EFI stuff working correctly. Might have just been something I did. smile.gif I had a 765gb section of hard drive I could not do anything with until I got everything in order.

You probably used mbr instead of gpt.

Yup. I already told him this.
post #196 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Well, I have been watching this with some interest, as I just purchased my first server a couple months ago. Arguments notwithstanding... Newegg has four drives on sale today, that I am interested in. WD 2tb Green for 99, WD 2tb Red for 99, Seagate 2tb with the newer 1tb platters for 89, and now a 3tb 7200.14, for 119...(I think it is older tech, but has HUGE positive reviews, though)
Just looking for a little advice.

I should mention, I purchased a WD green 2 tb a few months ago. I have mostly WD in my arsenal over the years, with zero trouble. I am not a "name brand specific", kind of guy, but it's hard to deviate from a product that you have had good luck with, if you see others have the click of death, or DOA's

I would buy the HDD with the lowest cost per TB.

If that drive (Seagate) is also faster and/or possibly more reliable I'd consider that a bonus.

I understand your brand preference for WD based on previous years circumstances, but I'm not sure it's worth paying more for less.
post #197 of 853
post #198 of 853
Yeah, that was the e-blast I got...114.00 with promo...not 119.00. So that is the 1TB platter design? I was just about to pull the trigger on the 2tb (retail kit with discwizard software dvd, sata/molex power cable and sata cable...)
post #199 of 853
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Seagate-_-22148844

3tb for $115. Fastest. Proven reliability. Modern 1Tb platter design.

Ugh.
post #200 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post



Ugh.

Ok, I'll entertain and bite on this.

So what else is better?
post #201 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Yeah, that was the e-blast I got...114.00 with promo...not 119.00. So that is the 1TB platter design? I was just about to pull the trigger on the 2tb (retail kit with discwizard software dvd, sata/molex power cable and sata cable...)

Yes. 1TB platter = 7200.14
http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_barracuda_3tb_review_1tb_platters_st3000dm001



If you grab it please do me a very simple real world favor. Put a movie on your SSD drive. Then copy paste it to this new Seagate and also your existing 2TB Green WD. Time how long it takes and report back.
All this talk about "real world" I'd like to put it to rest with a very simple, and highly appropriate to HTPC/media server task. The benefit should be blatent and obvious. Then remind yourself it was cheaper biggrin.gif
post #202 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Seagate-_-22148844

3tb for $115. Fastest. Proven reliability. Modern 1Tb platter design.

Do you have the promo code?
post #203 of 853
EMCXSWV22
post #204 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Yes. 1TB platter = 7200.14
http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_barracuda_3tb_review_1tb_platters_st3000dm001



If you grab it please do me a very simple real world favor. Put a movie on your SSD drive. Then copy paste it to this new Seagate and also your existing 2TB Green WD. Time how long it takes and report back.
All this talk about "real world" I'd like to put it to rest with a very simple, and highly appropriate to HTPC/media server task. The benefit should be blatent and obvious. Then remind yourself it was cheaper biggrin.gif

No SSD.
250 gig Seagate...(uh oh... that was RMA'd by HP just a few weeks ago.)
post #205 of 853
Thank you, worked great!
post #206 of 853
post #207 of 853
No one is holding a gun to....oh, nevermind. smile.gif
post #208 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Seagate-_-22148844

3tb for $115. Fastest. Proven reliability. Modern 1Tb platter design.

Can anyone confirm what warranty these have? Newegg is saying 2 years but I thought Seagate cut down the warranty to only 1 year on these.
post #209 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Seagate-_-22148844

3tb for $115. Fastest. Proven reliability. Modern 1Tb platter design.

Can anyone confirm what warranty these have? Newegg is saying 2 years but I thought Seagate cut down the warranty to only 1 year on these.

2 years.
post #210 of 853
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

2 years.

This is incorrect.

Seagate likes to hide their warranty information and is not listing it in any of their current material including the product brochure (which instead directs you usually to the site I have listed below). Almost all of Seagate's newer drives are made in China and come with a 1 year warranty. I also believe that all of their OEM drives come with a 1 year warranty regardless of where they were manufactured.

You can check your warranty length here: http://support.seagate.com/customer/en-us/warranty_validation_multi.jsp

Edit: Found this on another site when someone e-mailed Seagate to find out about the warranty on the 7200.14 ST3000DM001. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Their reply...
Quote:
"Thank you for contacting Seagate Support. Seagate recently began a warranty reduction program. In order to determine the drive warranty, the serial number must be available for the product. ...".

Edited by assassin - 4/13/13 at 10:39am
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