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WD Red vs WD Green vs Seagate 3TB Hard Drive Speeds - Page 12

post #331 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

What's wrong with this guy? Is he a troll?

certainly is! thank god for the "block member" feature. now only if people would stop replying to his posts, it would be great.
post #332 of 853
This thread is entertaining and all but it does make me feel bad how people in the same hobby community are treating each other. I don't understand all the animosity. Some of it is good debate which is great but a lot more of it's just being nasty. It's too bad.

I'd like to declare "rathole".
post #333 of 853
Which drive is the quietest?
I only ever stream 3 things at once max, and would like my server to be as quiet as possible
post #334 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL-F1 View Post

Which drive is the quietest?
I only ever stream 3 things at once max, and would like my server to be as quiet as possible


Most modern drives are reasonably quiet. The total noise your server makes is going to be determined by more than just how loud your HDD is.

I'd say the difference between a Green, Red, Seagate or whatever is insignificant in the big picture of how loud your server would be.


Fans, chassis and fan speeds would be the larger determining factor.
post #335 of 853
Mfusick, I didn't feel like going through 12 pages of the thread to see if there was ever any real support for the WD red but I am sold on your Seagates after the first page (I was about to get a 3TB Red). I have a headless linux "server" that pretty much only acts as a NAS for streaming movies. The movies are on 3 random 2TB drives in a LVM as a single logical partition... I need to add another drive. I was planning on a 3 or 4TB drives unless the price per GB is the same on 2TB drives. Can you recommend a model number that is the best ppGB for this application? or are you saying that any of the newer ones from somewhere like amazon are going to be just fine? Thanks. W
post #336 of 853
Red or Seagate 7200.14
post #337 of 853
Thx!
post #338 of 853
I've been wanting tiger direct to run a deal like $99 for a good 3TB because I have a $60 gift card since Black Friday.

I been waiting a long time.... Lol.
post #339 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I've been wanting tiger direct to run a deal like $99 for a good 3TB because I have a $60 gift card since Black Friday.

I been waiting a long time.... Lol.


ask...and ye shall receive?


I guess...You were the one that was tearing these apart, for the actual drive...correct?
post #340 of 853
Lol.

Yes, Just ordered it. Finally spent my $60 I had laying around.

Yes. Crack it open and inside is the 3TB seagate. I got one at Staples, a few at Costco, and one now from Tiger. I also have bought the internal from Newegg. Warranty and drive models are identical.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.staples.com/Seagate-Expansion-3TB-Desktop-USB-30-External-Hard-Drive-Black/product_895616

$119 minus $30 is $90

Better than Tiger but you need a coupon for Staples like this:




I only got the Tiger deal you posted because I needed to use this $60 Gift Card.

I bought a $49 OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD on Black friday... and they charged me $109. I emailed them and they sent me a $60 GC. I would have in retrospect gotten a credit back on my credit card.

But for $49 SSD I guess I did ok. biggrin.gif
post #341 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Lol.

Yes, Just ordered it. Finally spent my $60 I had laying around.

Yes. Crack it open and inside is the 3TB seagate. I got one at Staples, a few at Costco, and one now from Tiger. I also have bought the internal from Newegg. Warranty and drive models are identical.

I did the same with two $149 external 4TB Seagate drives I purchased - then I put two 1.5TB drives into the external enclosures (they were replaced by the 4TB drives). I still have use of the external enclosures (I use one to store my backups so I can move it about as needed) to use that way. smile.gif $300 for 8TB of storage made me happy.
post #342 of 853
^8TB for $300 is $37.50 per TB. Indeed the value is evident considering those are low power and good performers. Congrats.


Did you install them yet ? 1TB platters ?
post #343 of 853
I am seeing Toshiba 3TB quite often for cheap $$$. Anyone using one ?
post #344 of 853
I've been curious about the Toshiba's as well. There have been so many drive manufacturers changing hands of late that I have a hard time keeping up with who makes what. Of course, my favorite drives were the Samsungs and they managed to disappear completely after being acquired.

I just had a 1.5TB WD green drive in my unRAID server crap out (two months after the warranty expired, wouldn't you know rolleyes.gif) so I was looking for a replacement. Newegg has a Seagate 7200.14 3TB drive on sale for $119 so I decided to go with that since I couldn't any current better deals. I've already had two WD green drives bite the dust in my server so I'm starting to think they're not well suited for server use. The Seagate will actually become my new parity drive and the current parity drive (a WD 2TB green) will replace the dead drive, at least until I can acquire another replacement. I've still got a couple more WD green drives that I'd like to get rid of, but that will have to wait until funds become available. I just hope they last long enough for me to acquire new drives.
post #345 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

^8TB for $300 is $37.50 per TB. Indeed the value is evident considering those are low power and good performers. Congrats.


Did you install them yet ? 1TB platters ?

5900 rpm, 1TB platters, ST4000DM000. The external enclosures contained the standard internal drives. 2 yr warranty, though I have to put them back in the case to get it since they show up as a unit. Easy enough to do.
post #346 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I've been curious about the Toshiba's as well. There have been so many drive manufacturers changing hands of late that I have a hard time keeping up with who makes what. Of course, my favorite drives were the Samsungs and they managed to disappear completely after being acquired.

I just had a 1.5TB WD green drive in my unRAID server crap out (two months after the warranty expired, wouldn't you know rolleyes.gif) so I was looking for a replacement. Newegg has a Seagate 7200.14 3TB drive on sale for $119 so I decided to go with that since I couldn't any current better deals. I've already had two WD green drives bite the dust in my server so I'm starting to think they're not well suited for server use. The Seagate will actually become my new parity drive and the current parity drive (a WD 2TB green) will replace the dead drive, at least until I can acquire another replacement. I've still got a couple more WD green drives that I'd like to get rid of, but that will have to wait until funds become available. I just hope they last long enough for me to acquire new drives.


Your unraid server doesn't play nice with intellipark in green drives. You could disable it for longer life expectancy.
post #347 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

^8TB for $300 is $37.50 per TB. Indeed the value is evident considering those are low power and good performers. Congrats.


Did you install them yet ? 1TB platters ?

5900 rpm, 1TB platters, ST4000DM000. The external enclosures contained the standard internal drives. 2 yr warranty, though I have to put them back in the case to get it since they show up as a unit. Easy enough to do.

I have Rma the bare drive with just the serial # from the drive with success.
post #348 of 853
Really? That is good news. Hopefully I will never have the need to do that. smile.gif
post #349 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your unraid server doesn't play nice with intellipark in green drives. You could disable it for longer life expectancy.
How do I accomplish this? Is there a special utility I can download to disable it?
post #350 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

How do I accomplish this? Is there a special utility I can download to disable it?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467044/do-you-guys-test-your-harddrives-before-putting-them-to-use#post_23175574

I would be careful completely disabling headparking on the new EZRX drives. I have read about people facing problems if it's disabled. Setting it to 5 mins should be fine.
post #351 of 853
Will the head parking utility wipe, or format the drive?
post #352 of 853
No it doesn't affect data in any way, but there's always a risk when changing firmwares on hardware. I have it done to my three green drives without any issues at all.
post #353 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467044/do-you-guys-test-your-harddrives-before-putting-them-to-use#post_23175574

I would be careful completely disabling headparking on the new EZRX drives. I have read about people facing problems if it's disabled. Setting it to 5 mins should be fine.
I discovered the wdidle3 utility right after I posted. I appended my post to indicate this, but it must not have been saved. I believe most of what I read about it suggested doing one drive at a time. Setting it to 5 minutes also seems to be the general concensus on how to use it.

I ran the WD Data Lifeguard diagnostics on the failed drive and it failed both the long and short tests, indicating that there were numerous bad clusters. That makes me think the problem may just be a bad disk and not so much a failed head mechanism due to excessive duty cycles from parking the heads (forgive me if the terminology isn't correct as I'm trying to recall it off the top of my head from posts I read a couple of days ago).
Edited by captain_video - 5/6/13 at 5:39am
post #354 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

If you think re-posting a screen full of screenshots makes your point any more clear, then you certainly are mistaken. Your general writing and posting style already gives you a rather unclear feeling to begin with. tongue.gif

And you again ignored the most important point. A WD Red has a completely different target than a consumer desktop drive, and as such also other properties than just pure speed. If all you want is fast drives, buy Seagate for all i care.

smile.gif OK. Fair enough. I'll accept my posting style is not idea for you. wink.gif You win that point. biggrin.gif

Secondly,

I'm not missing that point; RED certainly has a nice niche in it's targeted consumer category. If I was building a low power pre-fabricated NAS box WD RED drives would be near the top of my list because of cool and quiet operations, long warranty, and great vibration resistance. I think they are idea for that application, and not ill suited for home media servers either. The longer warranty and street prices near WD greens, newer design (1TB platters) and higher performance make them a good choice over WD GREEN- especially since WD recommends them for those purposes and does not recommend GREEN. I never suggested or pretended otherwise. I'd consider RED WD drives personally if I found them under $40 per TB, or on par with the pricing of the better Seagate 7200.14's.

I think your missing the point I am making that the Seagate is a do it all drive with clear advantages in performance that's not well represented by Asassin or in the intention of this thread; Even more is that Seagate also holds a signifcant advantage in price which is usually paramount in any purchase decision and they are not at all ill suited for use in a HTPC, PC, mediaserver or NAS box- Making them highly attractive.

I understand completely WD's product strategy. They have differentiated and made specific certain product lines for certain types of applications. This "specialized" approach makes sense if your looking for certain attributes in your drive for very distinct applications. Example being your right about the RED being a fine product for it's intended purpose. But- I am not sure I see the benefit or advantage to this approach. I think it hurts WD and helps Seagate. Seagate uses a one drive for all approach that is very different. It's a good balance on most characteristics, and it's got economies of scale in it's favor.

Here is how I sum up my understanding of the WD line:

Black - High performance. Energy pigs. Equivalent of an older muscle car with a modified supercharged V8 engine. Not going to deliver good gas mileage, and not as efficient in design as newer models- but excellent at it's specialized area. Like a muscle car is good at acceleration, power and speed- A black drive is too- but in seek times. They have overbuilt cache, boards, use 7200rpm and place seek time as a priority. This used to make them great OS drives before SSD stole that market. Today they are still good at seek times, but really do not hold any advantage in sequential speeds like copying a big movie file, making them terrible choices for media servers, and HTPC's. A Seagate 7200.14 is faster in comparision. The high price, high heat, high noise, and high energy consumption makes this drive a poor choice for most in this forum.

Blue - Used to be the bread and butter of WD. The normal 7200rpm drive. Lost much of its thunder these days. Market shifted in 2010 towards the lower heat, noise, and better energy profile of the green 5400rpm drives. In 2010 when we were at 500GB platters- the GREEN drives debuted as newer more efficient designs that could compete on performance, and win on energy profile. Green also had aggressive pricing. Most switched from the older blue's to the newer greens - and rightfully so. Blue has not regained it's former glory in the current day market place.

Green Debuted as an energy saving, low cost, low heat and low noise drive. Found good success in basic storage applications where it's benefits were appreciated. (HTPCS's biggrin.gif) Remains a great choice for basic storage in a PC or HTPC today for the same reasons it always has been. But if we peel away the layers we'll see that 2 years ago Green drives had a higher platter density, newer more modern design and could hang with the 7200rpm drives of yesterday in performance while being better at energy and selling cheaper. Today, opposite is true. They are less advantaged because new 7200rpm drives with even more modern designs and higher density have hit the market taking back the performance advantage and also the price advantage. Two big blows to the viability of Green drives; also the newer 1TB platters and more efficient designs have allowed 7200rpm drive to operate with a better energy profile too making them even more attractive. Green drives are basic storage specific and are not recommended for media servers, NAS boxes or many of the duties storage drives are used for today. The market has shifted from internal bare HDD storage to NAS- with NAS boxes and home servers which typically hold many HDD's. Green drives do not have advanced anti vibration technologies like RED making them a poor choice in those applications. They also have a shorter warranty which sucks. They suffer from TLER issue and should never be used in RAID set ups. Lastly, it is a controversial topic but the green drives have a few power savings features that lower total reliability- specifically in 24/7 applications like NAS boxes and Servers. For this reason- WD does not recomend green drives for those purposes and the change in the market to those purposes was the main reason for the introduction and design of the RED drive line that is recommended for those purposes. The controversial issue the agressive settings in the "intellipark" head parking feature that parks the heads on a green drive after 8 seconds. The idea is to shut down the drive quickly when not in use and save on energy consumption; But this feature has a side effect in 24/7 applications like NAS boxes, File servers, and linux based machines. The side effect is the drive gets subjected to an excessive amount of ON/OFF cycles which causes premature wear and lower endurance. It's not going to die instantly if you use a green drive in a NAS box, linux box, Unraid/ubuntu or a media server- but it's probably not an ideal use for them per WD and MFG recommendations. You can disable this feature with WDidle8 or WDidle3 firmware hack which also removes the "click" of the head parking which is nice for internal HTPC applications if it bothers you. The click is not loud, but it can be annoying.

Here is some info on the WD GREEN head parking and reliability issues:

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Desktop-Portable-Drives/Green-Caviar-High-Load-Cycle-Cout-after-short-operation-time/td-p/15731

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Desktop-Portable-Drives/Green-Caviar-High-Load-Cycle-Cout-after-short-operation-time/td-p/15731/page/16

http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78891

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/printthread.php?tid=20686

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5357/session/L3RpbWUvMTM2MjE1MjE0Ny9zaWQvQktRUmI0a2w%3D
Straight from WD themselves:


If you wanted to know more there is tons more information here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=WD+Green+head+parking+issue


*disclaimer- My goal is not to disparage or denounce Green drives as I believe they are good choices for their intended and MFG recommended purposes; I just want create some awareness on the specificity of their intended purpose and possible complications of using them outside that purpose.



RED The newest product line WD offers with a specialized design and recommended purpose for NAS boxes, Mediaservers, 24/7 operations. They do not have the TLER issues of green drives making them much better for these purposes and for any RAID set ups. They are designed and certified for use in server cases, and cages with >5 HDD's and feature advanced anti vibration technologies making them more appropriate solution in such configurations. RED uses the same 5400rpm rotational spindle speed of the GREEN drives making them very attractive on energy profile. RED uses 1TB platters and is a newer design so it's normal to see both energy figures and performance figures superior to Green drives. RED is basically the evolution of the green drive into today's market that has a strong need for NAS, 24/7 media servers and applications that are more common than a few years ago- RED offers a longer warranty which is nice too. They still have the 5400rpm speed so the performance is acceptable but below what you see from a modern 7200rpm design with 1TB platters, making them a good low performance solution.

RE and AVG/P Expensive to the point I'll not make much of these two lines. WD makes a audio/video drive with wear leveling and high endurance for use in DVR and constant video recording applications and also makes many enterprise level drives that do not have head parking or TLER issues and are designed for high endurance in demanding enterprise applications like servers and data RAID set ups. The price of these drives makes them a poor choice for HTPC's and cheap home storage.

That is basically how I'd sum up my personal understanding of WD lines- but I for sure appreciate the singular and simplistic approach of Seagate by comparision.

Seagate has designed a one size fits all drive that tries to balance everything into a very attractive product. Enter the 7200.14. It's a modern design with (3) 1TB platters making it both higher performance AND more energy efficient. It does not have any head parking issues or TLER issues. It's a good solution for internal PC and HTPC storage. It's a great solution for home media server or NAS too. It's faster than 5400rpm drives, it's on par and competitive with energy (something 5 platter older 7200rpm are not) and because of the one size fits all approach it benefits from significant economies of scale and aggressive market pricing making it the highest value HDD. It's typically the lowest cost per TB today ($40 per TB).

Toshiba has a 3TB that has some buzz and the Hitachi drives are very good but use more energy.


This is a post I made early in this thread ^.
Had some links about head parking on green.
Probably misses this earlier.
post #355 of 853
Here is a small review of the 4TB 5900rpm Seagate drives I am using
Quote:
We measured sequential file transfer speeds at 140.2 MB/s read and 133.8 MB/s write using 2MB transfers in IOMeter. Those speeds slowed to 48.3 MB/s read and 40.2 MB/s write with 2MB random transfers.

Moving to 4K random transfers, we measured speeds of 45 IOPS read 94 IOPS write or 0.176 MB/s and 0.366 MB/s respectively. These values came up shy of what we measured on the 3TB XT, although its comparing a full production model to an unannounced and otherwise unreleased drive.

Using CrystalDiskMark to measure performance of the inside versus the outside edge of the platters, we found the speed to be a bit higher than what IOMeter saw on the top end. This could be explained by IOMeter looking at a broader section of the drive, where our forced inner/outer test only looks at the outermost or innermost edges for best or worst case performance.

On the outer tracks of the 4TB Barracuda XT we found speeds measuring 188.6 MB/s read and 187.5 MB/s write. These values slowed to just 88.82 MB/s read and 88.71 MB/s write on the inner portion of the drive.

Final Thoughts

We will of course have a full review of the bare 4TB Barracuda XT when released, but our initial testing shows a tremendous amount of promise. We saw sequential speeds very close to 190 MB/s read and write, which is faster than many consumer hard drives on the market today. While not exactly setting speed records galore, it still shows there is a lot of promise in the high capacity hard drive market
http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_4tb_barracuda_xt_first_thoughts_review
post #356 of 853
I want a 5TB with 5 platters of 1TB each @ 7200rpm that reads and writes @ 200 MB/sec and uses same energy as a WD 2TB EARS GREEN HDD.


Soon.
post #357 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I want a 5TB with 5 platters of 1TB each @ 7200rpm that reads and writes @ 200 MB/sec and uses same energy as a WD 2TB EARS GREEN HDD.

Soon.

+1
post #358 of 853
I'm thinking we should start seeing 5TB drives soon, and 4TB for $129 smile.gif.
post #359 of 853
By soon, do you mean 6 months?
post #360 of 853
Fall
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