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WD Red vs WD Green vs Seagate 3TB Hard Drive Speeds - Page 14

post #391 of 853
...or you could buy both a 60GB SSD and a 4TB 7200RPM drive and use the SSD to cache the HDD.
post #392 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by PobjoySpecial View Post

...or you could buy the Seagate 4TB 7200rpm drive.

ST4000DX000

Out of budget range. Also can't find any on sale in UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

...or you could buy both a 60GB SSD and a 4TB 7200RPM drive and use the SSD to cache the HDD.

As said before,
I already have one 128GB Samsung 830 SSD.
and a Seagate 3TB 7200.14 Barracuda HDD

So looks like what I need is 4TB Seagate HDD.14 for storage as I already have enough space for performance apps and games.
post #393 of 853
BTW, Mfusick, why did you had to RMA the drive? Does that mean that these Seagate HDD.15 drives are not reliable? What model number was it?

I actually mainly want to backup audio and video files. Are these slower drives capable of playing multiple files simultaneously where you could also seek and jump to a specific time without any delay?
post #394 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquerz View Post

BTW, Mfusick, why did you had to RMA the drive? Does that mean that these Seagate HDD.15 drives are not reliable? What model number was it?

I actually mainly want to backup audio and video files. Are these slower drives capable of playing multiple files simultaneously where you could also seek and jump to a specific time without any delay?

It was a 1TB drive from an external. A couple years old. I pulled it and it died. They swapped it out RMA.

I also did same with Hitachi 2TB and that replacement is in my desktop running strong
post #395 of 853
Sorry for being a little off topic but man I am in deep trouble.

I ended up buying the 4TB seagate expansion drive. I copied all my files to it from my old 1TB drive. I formatted the 1TB drive and its messed. I can't even boot the PC with the 1TB drive connected. So fixing that is useless now.

Anyway, the problem I have now is with this 4TB drive.

I took it out of it's enclosure and put it in PC as internal drive. I wasn't aware that this external drive encrypt the data when it is in it's external usb enclosure. Therefore, they are unreadable if you plug them into PC as internal drive. You need to format them before use. I wasn't aware of this then so here comes the problem...

I plugged it into PC as internal and saw the filesystem as RAW with 3 partitions.

I put it back in external usb case and I can see full 4TB in windows in a single partition.

Without realising that I cannot access the drive because it is encrypted, I put it back into internal PC and saw 3 partitions again in disk management. I tried to fiddle about in there and I think I tried making the drive "active". Nothing happened so I right-clicked the 2nd partition and selected "new partition...".

This started formatting the drive. Realising what I had done, I cancelled it and formatting stopped. But damage had been done.

Now when I put the drive back in the external usb enclosure, I can't access the drive. Disk Management shows drive as RAW with no partitions.

All my files are gone. How can I get the files back please???
post #396 of 853
^^ Phewww... never mind. I used a data recovery application. All the directory structure and files were there without a scratch and I was able to recover everything quite easily. Had me worried. (although I did try a few apps that failed badly first.)

Now I am even more convinced that I need to make backup of my drives. tongue.gif
post #397 of 853
Yeah. Your problem is a nightmare. Lol.

Glad it worked out. I always crack them open and clean format drive before I copy anything on to it.
post #398 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquerz View Post

^^ Phewww... never mind. I used a data recovery application. All the directory structure and files were there without a scratch and I was able to recover everything quite easily. Had me worried. (although I did try a few apps that failed badly first.)

Now I am even more convinced that I need to make backup of my drives. tongue.gif

which tool worked? would be nice to know as i have not had much luck the 1 or 2 times i could have used it.
post #399 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliaskary77 View Post

which tool worked? would be nice to know as i have not had much luck the 1 or 2 times i could have used it.

Hopefully Conquerz will chime in with what he used, but I have used R-Studio a couple times in the past when I was less diligent about backups. It worked really well and was pretty fast compared to other products I tried at the time. I haven't used them recently though. You can download and install the software in demo mode which will allow you to see what it can recover before you pay for it.
post #400 of 853
I just had my third WD Green 2TB drive fail on me - though this one is a few months over 2 years old. Still, I have had nothing but bad luck with the WD Green drives over the long haul - so far it makes 3 WD Green 2TB and 2 WD Green 1TB drives fail in the last 3 years.
post #401 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I just had my third WD Green 2TB drive fail on me - though this one is a few months over 2 years old. Still, I have had nothing but bad luck with the WD Green drives over the long haul - so far it makes 3 WD Green 2TB and 2 WD Green 1TB drives fail in the last 3 years.

Same story but I get flamed everytime I tell it
post #402 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliaskary77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquerz View Post

^^ Phewww... never mind. I used a data recovery application. All the directory structure and files were there without a scratch and I was able to recover everything quite easily. Had me worried. (although I did try a few apps that failed badly first.)

Now I am even more convinced that I need to make backup of my drives. tongue.gif

which tool worked? would be nice to know as i have not had much luck the 1 or 2 times i could have used it.

First of all I tried Handy Recovery. The 4TB drive was not even scan-able. In the past I had good experience with undeleting deleted files with this app. But this time it failed and it worried me.

I ran the following 3 tools together in parallel, as I did not want to run them one after another and waste time (even though I knew they would run faster if run alone):

EaseUS Data Recovery Wizard - Took over 36 hours to finish quick scan and then intelligent scan on the 4TB drive. In the end, the file system shown was mashed and only around 40GB out of 1TB was shown as recoverable. File and folder names were lost and orphaned and most files that were recovered were corrupt and damaged and could not be opened.

Stellar Phoenix Partition Recovery - This took over 36 hours again to scan the 4TB lol. Same problem as above.

RecoverMyFiles - This froze after few hours. I just let it continue in case it will refresh information. But I cancelled it when the above two programs finished scanning. File and folder names were lost and the recovered data was corrupt just like the above applications.


In the end, believe it or not, I prayed to God cos the data was so valuable to me and was almost in tears lol! For some reason I tried Handy Recovery again. This time I noticed that there was an option where you can choose a corrupt or missing partition. I did this and within minutes all folder structure and files were shown. Not a single scratch on any file. Everything was recoverable very quickly. smile.gif


Edit:

I think the reason why Handy Recovery worked so well was because it was a fresh drive. I did not have any deleted files on there. The only operation I had performed on the drive was a copy of the 1TB data, albeit bit at a time. After that the only problem I ran into was an accidental format of the drive. If the drive had been heavily used with a lot of deleted files in the past, and junk like that, I would have ran into big problem of sieving out the good files from the deleted ones that would show on these data recovery apps. Best practice: never delete your backup unless you have at least 2 copies.
Edited by Conquerz - 5/17/13 at 7:17pm
post #403 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I just had my third WD Green 2TB drive fail on me - though this one is a few months over 2 years old. Still, I have had nothing but bad luck with the WD Green drives over the long haul - so far it makes 3 WD Green 2TB and 2 WD Green 1TB drives fail in the last 3 years.

Just the opposite here. I have dozens of WD green drives that have been in use for years with no issue(but 2TB and lower). Although I had switched to using Seagate 2TB drives over a couple of years ago. I recently picked up a 3TB WD green drive, my first one in a while. Although I like the Seagate 3TB ones better I picked up recently. They are certainly faster since they are 7200 rpm and still run cool.
post #404 of 853
I tend to be an initial adopter of larger drives, so most likely I get them before all the bugs (that are never publically acknowledged) are worked out.
post #405 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I tend to be an initial adopter of larger drives, so most likely I get them before all the bugs (that are never publically acknowledged) are worked out.

Story of my life. Lol. This time I'm sticking with 3TBs I trust.

I've bought a few 4 TB Seagates but none in my server yet (because parity drive is only 3TB)

That's the next upgrade. Swap out parity for 4TB
post #406 of 853
Thanks Conquerz. Will keep bookmarked if ever needed. Multiple backups are definitely what i go with, but never know when you need something like this.
post #407 of 853
post #408 of 853
^^^ Sounds like marketing fluff, an excuse to bring a high priced, large capacity drive to market.
Quote:
Featuring capacities up to 4TB, the drive supports up to 16 simultaneous HD streams or 20 standard-definition streams as well as 24x7 operation capabilities making it ideal for video content applications. Basically, reliability is absolutely crucial here; it's an enterprise-type drive that's designed to resist failure.

The problem with this is that the HDD (and cache) can only do so much. Internal bus, network configuration and topology, the application(s) themselves more influence this than the HDD itself. Just give us reliable, competitive products Seagate, we'll take it from there.
post #409 of 853
It is surely a marketing fluff in that they are rebranding their enterprise drives into video drives.
post #410 of 853
Video (or AV as WD calls it) drives = Enterprise drives sans TLER.
post #411 of 853
Good enterprise drives usually trickle down to consumer drives.
post #412 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

If they are hiding this information, how did you come about finding it? Did you hack them?

I was not the one who found the info. One of the review sites mentioned it because they noticed that the MTBF was changed and it was now far lower than before, they also said this must be one of the reasons they were not bringing out internal drives until they can get a better handle on the failure rates. I think this happened because they were bringing out faster drives which got a lot hotter, my 1.5TB drive gets to 70C easy.. Yea its toast now but it was also fast. I took another look at the drives and it seems they are indeed maxtors. Just like how Seagate took CDC stuff and made their first "real" hard drives, the Maxtor guys were the ones who really made the Barracuda's. But the Maxtor drives were never reliable, they were fast. That's mostly because they used the guys from Quantum who were only out for speed. My roommate used to test their stuff and he said they were only out for speed no matter what. He talked about some specs which were way way out there. All these raid and other things which we never heard of in the real world with numbers far out there. Remember this was when Seagate thought 20MB drives were the in thing. Another roomie bought this drive and he thought this was fast! His boss saw that and he got a IBM PC and he would show us it only took 2 seconds to load wordperfect. Which was whoopee.. Loading a 100K program in 2 seconds and pay 20K for the system.

So faster also means hotter and that means failures. I am surprised a lot of people do pre-clears running the drives cool.. The way to do that would be to run the drive as hot as possible to age them 10 times faster. Remember a 2TB drive will take like 2 days just to scan files on the drive in case of failure. Its a real pain for normal users to be able to save data. Most software for the PC don't seem able to recover lost or deleted files with any kind of reliability. Most of them want money upfront to even be able to see if it works and it looks like most are just scam. So I prefer running a drive cooler to speed now. I cant handle data loss. And although Seagate failure is not as bad as say Maxtor it still is way higher than most others.

Also I should mention that Seagate will not honor warranty if you open the case. They also will not warranty the bare drive. Even if the drive shows up as warranty they do have the info that it was used as an external and void the warranty. Now I did have 2 external 2TB drives and when one of them started to fail I was trying to save the data. But the drive would keep locking up the computer and it was a real pain. I opened the case because the SATA connector would not fit in the drive within the case. I managed to mix up the drives with the 2 cases and sent it in. It took a month but they eventually said they would send a replacement. I had not opened the safety tape they used to fix the drive to the metal chassis inside the plastic case and the drive only had 20 hours or so on it. But the drive they sent back was a much older model with reduced features. I was just glad I got a drive back since they sent me an email saying opened cases voided the warranty and my drive was mixed. IE the serial number of the drive did not match the serial number of the plastic case. And they sent in a replacement drive anyway. So I think it depends on the tech if they reject the drive warranty or not but usually do. Just because the web says there is warranty don't mean there is.
post #413 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienteck View Post

I was not the one who found the info.

You missed my point - they are not hiding the info. Anyone can easily find it and read it for themselves. No investigative or hacking skills needed.
Quote:
Also I should mention that Seagate will not honor warranty if you open the case. They also will not warranty the bare drive. Even if the drive shows up as warranty they do have the info that it was used as an external and void the warranty. Now I did have 2 external 2TB drives and when one of them started to fail I was trying to save the data. But the drive would keep locking up the computer and it was a real pain. I opened the case because the SATA connector would not fit in the drive within the case. I managed to mix up the drives with the 2 cases and sent it in. It took a month but they eventually said they would send a replacement. I had not opened the safety tape they used to fix the drive to the metal chassis inside the plastic case and the drive only had 20 hours or so on it. But the drive they sent back was a much older model with reduced features. I was just glad I got a drive back since they sent me an email saying opened cases voided the warranty and my drive was mixed. IE the serial number of the drive did not match the serial number of the plastic case. And they sent in a replacement drive anyway. So I think it depends on the tech if they reject the drive warranty or not but usually do. Just because the web says there is warranty don't mean there is.

Two issues - the Seagate external enclosures are so easy to open my mother in law could do it without leaving a mark. OK, maybe not that easy, but almost. There is literally no way to know it was opened. The second issue is with the warranty - always cross-ship. They send you the new drive in a shipping safe container that they have approved (so they cannot blame your packing). You get the new drive immediately then send the failed one back to them. Once they receive it they do not charge you for the replacement. I have done this many times with many vendors, no problems ever.
post #414 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You missed my point - they are not hiding the info. Anyone can easily find it and read it for themselves. No investigative or hacking skills needed.
Two issues - the Seagate external enclosures are so easy to open my mother in law could do it without leaving a mark. OK, maybe not that easy, but almost. There is literally no way to know it was opened. The second issue is with the warranty - always cross-ship. They send you the new drive in a shipping safe container that they have approved (so they cannot blame your packing). You get the new drive immediately then send the failed one back to them. Once they receive it they do not charge you for the replacement. I have done this many times with many vendors, no problems ever.

Well if anyone can find it easy then why aren't more people talking about the drastically reduced MTBF rates? Its now lower than drives from a decade ago and Seagate says the drive is only specked to work on a home system running 5 hours a day for 2 years. Even WD says you need to buy their enterprise drives if you want to run them 24x7 as well as others like Toshiba. Seagate also has enterprise drives which are specked for 24x7 and they also cost a lot more, that extra cost is what you pay as insurance if they have to replace the drive. Even then I don't think the current enterprise drives will last the 5 years running in a server. The real enterprise drive used to cost 10 times as much and they did last the 5 years and more. The reason the drive quality has dropped so drastically as well as the prices is because no one is going to replace a 2TB drive in 3 years in a server when they can buy a new 4TB drive for half the price of the 2TB drive they paid, higher capacity drives in servers reduce running costs and server space costs and running costs make up for replacing the drives than repairing them . So they can do this 5 year warranty even if the drives will never last that long . If everyone sent back the drives the prices will be much higher than now. I am pretty sure you don't have a 1TB or larger drive with 20K hours on it still working without any problems. That 20K hours is still far lower than the 240K hours for 100% failure of all 100 drives. So I am assuming that half the drives will fail somewhere around 20K hours. That's just over 2 years. When they fail, it will be fast and furious. Since I don't have any drives with 20K still working properly I cant say how long some will last but I doubt there will be many. So when Seagate says 2400 hours before failure starts is true. With upto 50% hitting around 15K mark, I would think people should get nervous if they are running the drives a lot. Especially if they have valuable data on them. And since its close to the warranty run out period to get it replaced and use the replacement as backup drive only.

And about opening the cases, I seen many people open them and I have not seen many do it without giving it away that they have. You don't know where the tabs are placed inside and they use a special tool to push against the tabs from the inside to open the case without damage. If any of the tabs are broken, they know its been opened or if there are scratches and like I said it all depends on the tech who gets your drive. Some will let it slide and others wont. Sometimes you can just rma and bare drive and some times not. Depends on your luck. Also only in the US will Seagate ship you a drive first! Everywhere else they tell you not to open the case and if you have valuable data then try data recovery and void the warranty but not to bother them about it, that's the choice they give you. They don't even offer drive repair or recovery now since they know most people will try to get the data back and not send in the drive, outside data recovery will void the warranty. Also how do you peel the aluminum tape they use to tape the drive to the metal holder inside the plastic case. And why are we arguing about this when this is not something new and its simple enough to find out, just visit the Seagate forums to find people venting because their warranty was voided! just because someone eg me was able to get a replacement even with the wrong case does not mean anyone else will find it to work. Unlike now, last year when I did it, the site did not show the drive serial number only the case serial now. Now it shows both as a package. Oh yea, there are quite a few people who can work with surface mounted components to fix stuff. Heck even peel the metal on the cpus and add silicon grease to the cpu's to make them run cooler.. But how many regular people who work with computers can do all this? There are business reasons why they do what they do. Profits come before anything else. People need to think about the chances they take and not expect they can get away with it.

Should mention that even if the site did not show the drive serial number, they knew it and emailed me the corrected info once they received the drive so all 3 parts, the adapter, the case and the drive all matched in their database. It took far longer so I thought they had voided the warranty but they did send me another one which was an older refurbished model of the package after a month even if the drive I sent in was only used a couple of days.
Edited by alienteck - 5/21/13 at 11:24pm
post #415 of 853
Dude,

You seem like your on a tirade against Seagate based from a world and a time that doesn't exists anymore and has no relevancy to modern drives today.

I'm not sure what else to say other than I find most of your post utter and complete garbage.

You know WD was the first to lower the MTBF right?

You know the WD Green line is a much lower MTBF rated drive right ?

Your wrong about heat. The modern Seagates run cool- not at all like the past drives your referencing from yesteryears. And I'd take a modern Seagate 7200.14 over a modern WD 5400rpm in reliability any day. It's not even a contest at all.

You seem to think Seagate runs hot and dies fast based on many years old perceptions that are not accurate.

Seagate runs cool. And actually consumes less power than a WD green. It's not some hot pig your pretending it to be.
post #416 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienteck View Post

Well if anyone can find it easy then why aren't more people talking about the drastically reduced MTBF rates?

That is easy, most people do not care enough about MTBF to bother looking for it.
Quote:
But opening the cases, I seen many people open them and I have not seen many do it without giving it away that they have. You don't know where the tabs are placed inside and they use a special tool to push against the tabs from the inside to open the case without damage. If any of the tabs are broken, they know its been opened or if there are scratches and like I said it all depends on the tech who gets your drive.

You have never opened the new Seagate Backup Plus. If you want to know how ridiculously easy it is, look it up on youtube. Seriously, my friend's 10 year old could do it without damage or any marks of any kind at all, it really is that easy.
Quote:
ly in the US will Seagate ship you a drive first!

That is where I live so that is where my experience lies. Other places would need to save the original purchase box if they want to be 100% sure they have it packaged correctly.

Quote:
How do you peel the aluminum tape they use to tape the drive to the metal holder inside the plastic case.

That pulls right up without any marks or mars.
Quote:
arguing about this when this is not something new and its simple enough to find out,

Dunno why you are arguing; why are you arguing? I have personally disassembled and reassembled two 4TB Seagate Backup Plus external drives. I opened the one three times now, since I thought the drive had failed and was going to send it back for warranty replacement until I realized it was my ancient motherboard's onboard SATA chip which was causing the problem (figured this out by plugging it into the add on PCIe SATA card I have). I can assure you that it appears it has never been opened.
post #417 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You seem to think Seagate runs hot and dies fast based on many years old perceptions that are not accurate.

Seagate runs cool. And actually consumes less power than a WD green. It's not some hot pig your pretending it to be.

Yep, the 4TB ones run just as cool as the WD Greens.

BTW, Newegg shell shocker deal of the day is the Seagate 4TB drive for $150.

http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-22-178-338-_-05222013_1
post #418 of 853
Sweet deal smile.gif

I'm stuck at 3TB because my parity is 3TB.

I'm looking at getting 4 if those 4TB drives. Two for parity and two for storage. That would also free up two 3TB drives boosting my storage 14TB. (3+3+4+4)

But I need another HBA SATA card like my 8 port IBM.

That means cost is ~$750 total. That is next major server upgrade. I'm waiting for my money tree to blossom ... Lol
post #419 of 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post


Yep, the 4TB ones run just as cool as the WD Greens.
Actually they run cooler and use less energy.

They use less energy @4TB than WD green @3TB. Also 5900rpm (versus 5400rpm) outperforms in speed and performance by a wide margin - while still remaining better on heat/energy.

The 5900rpm Seagate 4TB hdds with 4 modern 1TB platters are a great choice for storage of media. Fast, cool, cheap, reliable, low energy, low noise, etc...

Its not at all what he's pretending all Seagates to be based on maxtor drives from many years ago. It's really just a stupid comment and point in general.

PC hardware changes so much that yesterday really has no effect on today.
post #420 of 853
I was basing my temperatures on touch alone. smile.gif
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