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This one or that one? Opinions?

post #1 of 30
3/1/13 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys. Im looking for a sub for around $1k (I reviewed the sub shootout with all the ID subs a few times and i think im narrowing it down). I wanted to just let ya'll know what Im working with and will getting one of these subs get me where i want to be.. I know my setup will make some "audiphiles" grimmace, but sorry ya'll, im on a budget. Wish i could have the toys some of you have, but as of right now, I simply cannot.. Im looking for a sub that will really move the room without distorting on me. I want something for that WOW factor.. I also happen to just get tickled pink when you get that bass that you just feel in your throat, even at sub-sonic levels.. (God i love that!).

Im thinking right now, the HSU VTF-15.. although I havent ruled out the Epik or the Rhythmik, and Im still open for better ideas...

I have the following:

Onkyo 809 receiver
2 XLS-15's for front left and right (yeah, cerwin vega.. we cant all have the top of the line stuff wink.gif
1 XLS-6C for center speaker
and then im fixing to get 2-4 XLS-6's to finish out the 5.1 or 7.1 surround..
The front left and rights are powered by a CV-1800 Pro amp.
16 gauge wire all around.

I dont have the exact specs on my apartment, but it isnt very big at all. It is L shaped unfortunately, but i make due.

I am one of those people that just love rich, deep, powerful bass. I just bought these XLS-15's on a whim, because 10-15 years ago, when i was a kid, i had a pair of Cerwin Vega 15's.. I remember the bass being alot deeper. They arent doing it for me now. I want to know if i get one of these $1000 subs (im really thinking the HSU, but i would love to here ALL opinions) will get me where i want to be. I want something to handle the 60Hz and below range (Im guessing). Seems as though all the Cerwin's can easily handle everything down to there (Im sure they go lower, but like i said, its just not the power im looking for..)


Will the HSU sub get me where i want to be? Or should i go with one of the others? I havent heard any in real life, so i would just love to get as many opinions as i can. It is a big investment for me, so i want to get it right. It would take a long time, but i would eventually be willing to move up to two subs. But thats far off in the future. Thanks for the help in advance, guys!
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post #2 of 30
3/1/13 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
Oh, and one more thing. I live alone. No WAF factor. It can be a massive beast of a sub with fangs and glowing red eyes and everything, and ill still happily have it right smack dab in the living room.
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post #3 of 30
3/1/13 at 8:58am
How big is your room?

Do you have the xls15s setup in the onkyo to be full range? I would think most people in an apt would be more or less limited in volume.

Have you considered diy?
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post #4 of 30
3/1/13 at 9:00am
Thread Starter 
Sorry, im just now reading that "Read this first" thread.. here is a little more info..


I watch movies very loud.. However i really want this thing to shine with music.. And although i live in an apartment, please disregaurd that. I make friendly with my neighbors and bribe them/invite them over/etc.. instead of being quiet. I am a full volume kind of person. I like to be wow'ed. Ill try to get room dimensions when i can. The place really isnt THAT big at all though. Let me know if ya'll want any more info. Thanks!
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post #5 of 30
3/1/13 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
give me a few minutes. i ran home to take a few pics and get a quick draft of my apartment layout. Ill see if i can figure out how to get everything on here for you to see. I would be interested in DIY, howver i am completely clueless on what to get, and how to make the proper boxes, etc.. Also, my budget cant change though, whether it be DIY or just bought. Again, volume is not something i want you guys to worry about. I make friendly with my neighbors so i can enjoy it as i please at certain times. Also, i dont plan on living here forever. I want to be able to rock out full volume with my system.

Ill work on posting my apartment layout now.
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post #6 of 30
3/1/13 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
well, i have a couple of pictures and a layout of the apartment, but i dont know how to post them here.. do you know how i do it?
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post #7 of 30
3/1/13 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 








there they are.. first two are from the front door. next one is looking at the corner where my cheap sub is now, and where the new one will probably go. the last one is a pic from where the sub is now. I cant figure out how to upload the pdf i drew up of my apartment. ill try to just explain.. the wall the front door is on is 19.5 ft. from the front door down to the end of the kitchen is 29 ft. where the tv and speakers are, that wall is around 12ft. from the wall the front door is on to the wall the tv is on, is 13.5 feet. the space in between the couches in the corner where the sub is as follows.. about 3.5 feet of space horizontally to the front door and front wall, and about 4ft the in the vertical plain between the couch and the walls. Hope this helps..
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post #8 of 30
3/1/13 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

Oh, and one more thing. I live alone. No WAF factor. It can be a massive beast of a sub with fangs and glowing red eyes and everything, and ill still happily have it right smack dab in the living room.

Massive sub with fangs: http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15 biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 30
3/1/13 at 11:36am
One other thought for a little more ($1100). Smaller subs, but get two: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html

Then you'll get nice even bass throughout the room.
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post #10 of 30
3/5/13 at 6:18am
Thread Starter 
Honestly, i think i'd rather stick at the $1000 price point, and eventually get a matching sub at the same price point when my finances allow for it.
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post #11 of 30
3/5/13 at 6:36am
(Yes, I read your above comment before posting my below comment.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

Wish i could have the toys some of you have, but as of right now, I simply cannot.

Until I know what I'm doing, I'm working with a pair of eighteen year old Klipsch, 12" subs with upgraded drivers and radiators and a boatload of measuring gear. tongue.gif

Personally, I think one with a thousand dollar budget is best served with two Klipsch, RW-12d's or a pair of BIC, PL-200's and some measuring gear to get the subs integrated into the room's acoustics. And if one is too lazy to be bothered with measuring gear, then my opinionated recommendation is to get three Klipsch, RW=12d's or three, BIC, PL-200's and set them up in the listening venue and rock out.

(Three subs make up for a multitude of sonic sins)

From the above recommendation, one can winnow the above down to two subs, like a pair of Rythmik, LV12r's or a single sub in the 15" range by Rythmik, SVS or PSA.

Since you posted images (great bachelor pad), I'm going up your single subwoofer budget a bit and recommend the likes of a SVS, PC12-Plus. a PSA, XS30 or a Rythmik, E15.

Good luck and good hunting.

...cool.gif

-
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post #12 of 30
3/5/13 at 6:44am
Thread Starter 
DIY sounds interesting too, but im clueless right now
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post #13 of 30
3/5/13 at 6:49am
Thread Starter 
I was looking at the PB12Plus.. you think its going to be more powerful than the HSU 15"? I guess it does have a larger amp, and it does cost quite a bit more.. I dont know much about PSA, or XS30. If you give me details, ill look into them. Thanks about the my pad. yeah, i make due quite well for a small, cheap apartment, and on a tight budget smile.gif
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post #14 of 30
3/5/13 at 7:07am
The PB12 Plus and VTF15h have been compared directly. Here is the results for the PB12 Plus, and here is the results for the VTF15h.
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post #15 of 30
3/5/13 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

I was looking at the PB12Plus.. you think its going to be more powerful than the HSU 15"? I guess it does have a larger amp, and it does cost quite a bit more.. I dont know much about PSA, or XS30. If you give me details, ill look into them. Thanks about the my pad. yeah, i make due quite well for a small, cheap apartment, and on a tight budget smile.gif

The reason I suggest the PC12-Plus is, it's an excellent subwoofer that will blend uber nice with your decor.

Details?

Not much to say as they're all top dogs of the pack. The best recommendation would be to go to each or their websites and see what speaks to you personally. If you stick to your stated budget (or a bit higher), you won't be shortchanged doing it this way no matter which sub you choose.

If I were to go on my own personal recommendations, it's a toss up as in my opinion, neither sub or manufacture is better than the other and they all have their good points which speak to a different part of me. Between PSA, Rythmik and SVS, at this price point, they're all good stuff, they all have killer customer service and they all look good and just one of these subs will rock the joint.

To me, at this price level, these manufactures, it's about the look/feel/size of the item as they're all stellar performers. That's why you have to go to each of their websites and see which subwoofer, personally talks to you.
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post #16 of 30
3/5/13 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
yeah, im doing that. i do that alot, but im just one of those folks who always over-reads into things and then cant make a decision.. i end up looking like this guy ---> eek.gif before i pull the trigger. Im looking at that XS30, and now its going to take that much longer, because im intrigued. By the way, just mentioning, it seems one of the guys involved in the production of the XS30, is also the guy who put the "V" in SVS. I just happen to read that. Now I have to get started on tracking down comparisons on the XS-30 vs the VTF-15 and a couple of other's. I kind of feel the SVS subs are really meant for people out of my price range. Although, i do agree, they look sharp. I definitely wouldnt mind that baby sitting in my living room. Thanks for the advice, you definitely got me interested in another sub i hadnt even looked at yet (the XS-30).
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post #17 of 30
3/5/13 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

Thanks for the advice, you definitely got me interested in another sub i hadnt even looked at yet (the XS-30).

...biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 30
3/5/13 at 7:42am
How about this.

2 of these for $500.

2 of these for $240.

This amp.

Get a tube of PL premium to put the boxes together. Use clamps if you have them, if not you can use tacking nails to hold it together while the glue dries.


2 x Dayton RSS460HO-4 - $500
2 X 4.0cu ft flat packs - $240
1 x iNuke 3000 - $300
Total - $1,040

Having drastically better subwoofers than anything else suggested in this thread - Priceless
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post #19 of 30
3/5/13 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 
looks like it'll come to $1100 after freight on the two boxes. Damn.. now i have more thinking to do. This looks nice. have you heard any of these ID subs that were being discussed? This will truely sound much better than those? I just might give your idea a whirl.. Of course i want to read up on the speakers you advised, as this is the first time hearing of them for me.
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post #20 of 30
3/5/13 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
also, what else do i need to make this project ready to plug into my AVR? i see i can grab the $6 binding posts.. what else will i need? Please be detailed if you dont mind. I hate when i order stuff and get all excited, then i realize when it comes in, i forgot something little that while make me have to wait even longer. Basically, Im impatient wink.gif
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post #21 of 30
3/5/13 at 11:13am
You can always build the boxes yourself too. Just pick up some 3/4" MDF and you could probably do it for half the cost. But I'm not sure how easy it will be if you live in an apartment. I built mine on my balcony. lol. Flat packs really make things alot easier.

I've heard the HSU VTF-15H before. Not in my own home, but I was impressed with it nonetheless. It was a brief listen, but was enough to make me want to upgrade from my budget sub. After a long time of researching I decided to build a single sealed Dayton 18" HO. Running it off of a Crown XLS1000 amp, this thing is a beast. The output and low end extension outperforms the HSU easily.

A single sealed Dayton 18" HO will outperform the listed ID subs, and two will be significantly better.

Check here for test measurements of the Dayton. You can directly compare the frequency response graphs of the Dayton to various other subs. Also, do a search on here for the Dayton and you'll find tons of build threads and opinions.
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post #22 of 30
3/5/13 at 11:19am
Drivers
Enclosures
Wire Terminals/binding posts
Wire
Feet (I used the large rubber feet sold on parts-express)
Cable from receiver to Pro amp. This depends on what amp you go with.
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post #23 of 30
3/5/13 at 11:33am
Thread Starter 
yep ive been reading on here about it since you posted.. Unless someone comes into this thread and steals your thunder (lol), i think you may have steered me down a different path. Here is what Im thinking the plan is.. Since my budget is REALLy tight right now (I have Earthday Birthday 20 coming up.. its an all day rock concert, we go every year and we do it big when we go, so i end up having to spend lots of $$), Im going to start with one of these.. I figure:

1 18" sub = $250 + $154 for the flat pack (shipping included) + $6 for binding posts + $340 for the EP4000 amp (this way i have the headroom needed for when i build the next one down the road) = $750 total... rubber feet Ill grab, too, i just havent really looked into that yet. With the amp i picked, what wiring should i go with, etc? I have a pretty solid RCA running to the corner that the sub will be in already (thats all i need to go into the amp from the AVR still, correct?). Also, if you want to give any details or hints or anything (if you have done this build yourself), please feel free as this will be my first attempt at this. (another reason ill go with the flat pack, to make it quiker and easier).

Yeah, ive been all over the place in my head when it comes to making a decision.. but My gut is telling me pretty quickly that this is the rout for me to take biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 30
3/5/13 at 1:04pm
Awesome. You could probably start a build thread in the DIY section and get tons of good advice with this. If going with the EP4000 you will need an RCA to XLR adapter. What receiver do you have? Most, if not all receivers have more than enough line out voltage on the LFE output to power the XLR input of the EP4000. Also, you should stuf the inside of the box with either cheap pillows or a few pounds of polyfill. You can buy a 3.25lb bag of polyfill at walmart for around $8, or buy about 4 pillows for around the same price. Whichever you prefer to deal with.

It was my first attempt at building a good quality subwoofer. One that I actually took the time to plan out rather than throwing wood together and sticking a driver in. The flat packs appear to come cut perfectly, so you really should just have to glue and let sit.

As for actually attaching the driver to the front baffle, you may want to ask around about that. I used plywood for my enclosure and simply used wood screws to attach the driver. MDF doesn't like screws, so you may need to go with another option. I have read that some people use T-nuts or wing nuts to get a good hold.
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post #25 of 30
3/5/13 at 1:25pm
Thread Starter 
i actually just realized that one of the threads i was reading, was your building this box. so i cant use screws to hold the driver to the baffle? It seems the link you sent me will have a cut-out meant for theis specific speaker.. even if i pre-drill the holes? If not, like you said, i can look around at other options there. Im waiting on a larger commission check to come in at work, so im guessing it will be anotehr 2-3 weeks before i order everything. Ill keep reading and researching until then.. I have a question, is there a more powerful sub that will fit into one of these flat pack boxes? Say for another extra $100-$200 per driver? I cant remember what it was exactly now, but someone sent me a link to parts-express, and i think it was some sort of "TS" driver or something like that.. was like $499 i believe. I have yet to do any serious research into buying stand alone drivers and DIYing it up. Although, this specific driver and flat-pack seems like a fairly safe bet. You saw the pics of my place up there, right? One of these will probably be blowing the doors off, wont it?
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post #26 of 30
3/5/13 at 1:44pm
Ha awesome. Well you can use screws with MDF, but you have to be careful. Screws are almost a one time deal with MDF, as taking the screws out and putting them back in may make the MDF crumble a bit. I'm not sure of the best way to attach the driver is.

I'm not too familiar with drivers around $500 or so, but I do seem to recall reading about a driver for that price. I don't think it would give you twice the output and performance of the Dayton 18" HO though. It could possibly add a db or so along the frequency response, but having two Daytons should add around 3 or so db.

A single one of these may not blow your doors off, but it will come close. It may shake your eyeballs. That's always a cool way to impress people.

I have a non-structural, free standing wall in my living room near my sub. I have seen this wall flex a bit with intense LFE scenes with bass down to 10Hz or so. It's a pretty awesome sub. lol
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post #27 of 30
3/5/13 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
yeah, i think im going to roll with this. do you know which type of wood glue is recommened for this? Also, to paint it, you should sand it down and use what type of paint? Or does it matter? Im ready to start me a project!
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post #28 of 30
3/5/13 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

yeah, i think im going to roll with this. do you know which type of wood glue is recommened for this? Also, to paint it, you should sand it down and use what type of paint? Or does it matter? Im ready to start me a project!

PL premium is well regarded as a MDF glue/sealer. I personally haven't used it, but hear that it's one of the best options. May need to research this a bit more.

As for paint I've seen many people use Duratex. It creates a tough textured black look. Many people on here have been using it on similar builds with great results. I believe you can either buy it as a roll-on type or spray type. It seems to be kinda pricey though, so it's up to you if you'd use it. Can always just put a few coats of black paint on it. These drivers are extremely nice to look at, so you don't need your box finish to be anything special to have a great looking sub.
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post #29 of 30
3/6/13 at 6:40am
Thread Starter 
how many tubes you think it takes for this box? Also, do you know where i could look, as to make sure im wiring this thing up properly? Any good diagrams, or examples? (I want to make sure the wires go to the right spots, and also that i have them laid out in the subwoofer box, as to not cause isssues or excess noise/vibrations)... Like i said, this is my very first build, but its alot of $$$ for me, so i really cannot afford to screw it up eek.gif

any other pointers are greatly appreciated, too. Is it pretty easy to figure out how to glue it all together and whatnot?
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post #30 of 30
3/6/13 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

Hey guys. Im looking for a sub for around $1k (I reviewed the sub shootout with all the ID subs a few times and i think im narrowing it down). I wanted to just let ya'll know what Im working with and will getting one of these subs get me where i want to be.. I know my setup will make some "audiphiles" grimmace, but sorry ya'll, im on a budget. Wish i could have the toys some of you have, but as of right now, I simply cannot.. Im looking for a sub that will really move the room without distorting on me. I want something for that WOW factor.. I also happen to just get tickled pink when you get that bass that you just feel in your throat, even at sub-sonic levels.. (God i love that!).

Im thinking right now, the HSU VTF-15.. although I havent ruled out the Epik or the Rhythmik, and Im still open for better ideas...

I have the following:

Onkyo 809 receiver
2 XLS-15's for front left and right (yeah, cerwin vega.. we cant all have the top of the line stuff wink.gif
1 XLS-6C for center speaker
and then im fixing to get 2-4 XLS-6's to finish out the 5.1 or 7.1 surround..
The front left and rights are powered by a CV-1800 Pro amp.
16 gauge wire all around.

I dont have the exact specs on my apartment, but it isnt very big at all. It is L shaped unfortunately, but i make due.

I am one of those people that just love rich, deep, powerful bass. I just bought these XLS-15's on a whim, because 10-15 years ago, when i was a kid, i had a pair of Cerwin Vega 15's.. I remember the bass being alot deeper. They arent doing it for me now. I want to know if i get one of these $1000 subs (im really thinking the HSU, but i would love to here ALL opinions) will get me where i want to be. I want something to handle the 60Hz and below range (Im guessing). Seems as though all the Cerwin's can easily handle everything down to there (Im sure they go lower, but like i said, its just not the power im looking for..)


Will the HSU sub get me where i want to be? Or should i go with one of the others? I havent heard any in real life, so i would just love to get as many opinions as i can. It is a big investment for me, so i want to get it right. It would take a long time, but i would eventually be willing to move up to two subs. But thats far off in the future. Thanks for the help in advance, guys!

You could certainly look at Power Sound Audio. If you can extend a bit, you could get a single XV-30 which will give you serious bass, or you could look at the XV-15 or XS-30. I have dual XV-30's and love em.
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