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What brand of AVR is most trouble-free? - Page 3

post #61 of 66
3/3/13 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

Based on your post, it is evident you did not really read the anchor post of the thread.

Respectfully, please don't post in the thread unless you have something constructive to add. Also, directly trashing a thread is generally a bad practice. Most forums have guidelines like that. If you don't like the topic for some reason, then please just move on: There are plenty of other threads to engage in. Thank you.

~~~
I didnt trash the thread. I said that it was good for nothing more than an entertaining discussion. You have obviously never seen me trash a thread. When I do it is much worse than that. I simply made an observation and stated my opinion. Which is the exactly what everyone else is doing. I have seen no facts or science discussed here.
Oh...I like Yamaha. There. I added something constructive.
Edited by Bond 007 - 3/3/13 at 10:53am
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post #62 of 66
3/3/13 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

Respectfully, please don't post in the thread unless you have something constructive to add. Also, directly trashing a thread is generally a bad practice. Most forums have guidelines like that. If you don't like the topic for some reason, then please just move on: There are plenty of other threads to engage in. Thank you.

Respectively, you're not owed an answer you like. There's no rule about thread trashing here, however there are rules how you should treat people who take the time to respond to your questions.

That fact is, that there isn't an unbiased source of information on the reliability of AV receivers. If you, or anyone else reading this thread, relies just on just opinions expressed here instead they risk being fooled by things like a non-respresentive sample of brand loyalists (fanboys) that participate on these forums and custom installers who have a much better idea of what brands give them the largest profit margins.

Obviously the that's not an answer you will find "constructive" either, but that's OK. There are lots of other people reading this thread who might benefit from what I (and Bond 007 and anyone else expressing a similar opinion) said.
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post #63 of 66
3/3/13 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by All4fun View Post

M Code, I think those are compelling credentials that enable a very informed opinion based on deep experience. Thanks for your posts.
Here's where I think you have gone astray: When opinion is based on direct experience, then the opinion tends to have merit. When the opinion is based on "I heard" or "someone said" then it tends to fall down the list of credibility. As a proof point, let me offer M Code's experience. I'd say his opinion is very much experience-based and therefore moves up the list of credibility, way up.

I contend that if you listen to enough opinions, and how and why those individuals formed their opinions, then patterns emerge and insight can be gained. I would contend we are already seeing a trend in this thread, but I'll withhold judgment for now.

~~~

OK..
Here is some more info about M Code...
Since we have been on this forum for over 10 years the majority of the AVS vets know that my posts are fact based and mostly oriented to help someone and/or to set the record straight. Since we work closely with certain brands in the development/validation for new AVRs, we do know/have the nitty gritty, inside details...
But I will not post these as we are under NDA with some of the mentioned brands, and will not jeopardize these relationships.
However, we have listed below some of the pertinent facts about the global AVR market and brands:
1. 64% of AVRs sales are done in North America
2. Yamaha is the #1 brand in global AVR $
3. Yamaha is the only AVR brand that designs and builds their AVRs in their own factories
4. Sony, Pioneer, Harman/Kardon, Marantz, Denon, NAD AVRs are built in (3) OE factories, not their own
5. In 2009 Denon was the top AVR brand in sale $, but lost total market/pricing control of their distribution channels to the internet sellers and big-box sellers
6. In 2010 when Bain Capitol (MItt Romney) bought controlling interest in D&M Holdings (Denon & Marantz) the organization was literally stripped bare, laying off hundreds of staff shifting crucial development, production, engineering tasks to be outsourced

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #64 of 66
3/3/13 at 4:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

OK..
Here is some more info about M Code...
Since we have been on this forum for over 10 years the majority of the AVS vets know that my posts are fact based and mostly oriented to help someone and/or to set the record straight. Since we work closely with certain brands in the development/validation for new AVRs, we do know/have the nitty gritty, inside details...
But I will not post these as we are under NDA with some of the mentioned brands, and will not jeopardize these relationships.
However, we have listed below some of the pertinent facts about the global AVR market and brands:
1. 64% of AVRs sales are done in North America
2. Yamaha is the #1 brand in global AVR $
3. Yamaha is the only AVR brand that designs and builds their AVRs in their own factories
4. Sony, Pioneer, Harman/Kardon, Marantz, Denon, NAD AVRs are built in (3) OE factories, not their own
5. In 2009 Denon was the top AVR brand in sale $, but lost total market/pricing control of their distribution channels to the internet sellers and big-box sellers
6. In 2010 when Bain Capitol (MItt Romney) bought controlling interest in D&M Holdings (Denon & Marantz) the organization was literally stripped bare, laying off hundreds of staff shifting crucial development, production, engineering tasks to be outsourced

Just my $0.02... wink.gif

Thanks M Code. Some very interesting factoids there. I have a fair amount of direct experience with Chinese and Malaysian OEM/Contract Manufacturing. Especially in China, you have to watch the hen-house carefully, or corners will be cut to save cost that really should not be cut. We have learned this the hard way and it manifests as quality issues. The way a CM/OEM is paid is based on shipments. Build and ship is their bread and butter. Shutting the line down to address a quality issue tends not to happen unless you 'police' the quality they are building. Apple has an incredible number of people in China to control their supply chain and factories to drive quality. They do that for a reason because it is not cheap. smile.gif

It speaks volumes relative to quality control to learn that Yamaha is the only AVR brand that builds their AVR's in their own factories. Thx again.

~~~
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post #65 of 66
3/3/13 at 5:59pm
Based on my personal experience I have to give Onkyo a plug. I bought an 801 6-7 years ago and I use it every day. I have never turned it off and never had a problem.
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post #66 of 66
3/3/13 at 6:37pm
Very interesting information M Code. Thank you.

I've owned A/V receivers from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pioneer. All have worked fine out of the box with no issues. I got rid of them due to "obsolescence" (e.g., DTS and HDMI) before any experienced problems.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › What brand of AVR is most trouble-free?