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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 44

post #1291 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

That looks terrible. I can tell you it isn't going to be that dim. They probably have power saving and CATS on.

Actually, it's pretty accurate. I turned all the extra junk off and both custom and even vivid were extremely dim given the conditions. Bright warehouse lighting + louvre filter that limits vertical viewing angle + displayed on a high shelf + torched LCDs flanking either side = contextually dim picture. It's in no way indicative of the S64's actual performance which I can only assume is comparable to that of the S60 -- which is EXCELLENT. An S60 with an AR filter is an ideal value proposition for many plasma fans and it's a shame that the S64 will be relegated to one of the year's "best kept secret" status due to availability and the showroom conditions being garbage.

An aside, but the blown/washed out LCDs look equally as nasty to my eyes. The only television in the entire row of large screens that I actually thought showed off decently well was the 60" Samsung plasma. Highly reflective sure, but other than that if I was a casual shopper it would be the one that I would be drawn to.
post #1292 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Actually, it's pretty accurate. I turned all the extra junk off and both custom and even vivid were extremely dim given the conditions. Bright warehouse lighting + louvre filter that limits vertical viewing angle + displayed on a high shelf + torched LCDs flanking either side = contextually dim picture. It's in no way indicative of the S64's actual performance which I can only assume is comparable to that of the S60 -- which is EXCELLENT. An S60 with an AR filter is an ideal value proposition for many plasma fans and it's a shame that the S64 will be relegated to one of the year's "best kept secret" status due to availability and the showroom conditions being garbage.

An aside, but the blown/washed out LCDs look equally as nasty to my eyes. The only television in the entire row of large screens that I actually thought showed off decently well was the 60" Samsung plasma. Highly reflective sure, but other than that if I was a casual shopper it would be the one that I would be drawn to.

+1 & well said.

I'm glad they didn't get carried away with the AR. I'm not seeing any loss in PQ.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/8/13 at 12:21pm
post #1293 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaboy1234 View Post

That's the only difference. If you are sure you can handle the reflections and/or your are in a light controlled room, then getting the S60 should be fine. The only problem comes from if you get it and find reflections are too much and washes out or what not, you have to deal with returning to an online store, which can be a pain a lot of the time. Also if you plan on moving in the near future, you can not be sure what kind of lighting you may have.

Just weigh out all of the options. The S64 65" is $1399 at SAMs and Costco, which is cheaper than I've seen the S60 anywhere online, but you do need to pay tax. I would prefer to pick up my TV locally every time over having to trust delivery people to take care of it.

Definitely be sure of the glare, best buy is picking up my p65s60 and replacing it with a p60st60 today, I don't game much, and the glare just bugged me too much, even though I thought I had a good handle on the light. If I had a basement man cave this set would be perfect. At night with lights off picture is really great. S64 seems like the best of both worlds to me, but that wasn't an option for me at this time. I'm probably more sensitive than others about the glare coming from a matte LCD screen as my previous main set.
post #1294 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvanderwerf View Post

Definitely be sure of the glare, best buy is picking up my p65s60 and replacing it with a p60st60 today, I don't game much, and the glare just bugged me too much, even though I thought I had a good handle on the light. If I had a basement man cave this set would be perfect. At night with lights off picture is really great. S64 seems like the best of both worlds to me, but that wasn't an option for me at this time. I'm probably more sensitive than others about the glare coming from a matte LCD screen as my previous main set.
Be sure to let us know how much better the ST is with glare.
post #1295 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

I'm glad they didn't get carried away with the AR because I'm not seeing any loss in PQ. Had they gone anywhere near matte, I suspect the loss would be very noticeable.

I had thought a matte screen was a raw screen, and they added a glossy coating to make it glossy mirror-like, but it turns out it is the reverse. I'm kind of surprised that a matte screen distorts more than a louver as a matte is directly on the screen while a louver, I think, is offset from the screen and the slats would seem to have more vertical blockage than a matte.

One disturbing thing I noticed is that letter borders were sharper on the LCDs than the S65 - is this possibly a result of Sam's setting up the plasma in vivid mode causing fuzziness on the letter borders?
post #1296 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I had thought a matte screen was a raw screen, and they added a glossy coating to make it glossy mirror-like, but it turns out it is the reverse. I'm kind of surprised that a matte screen distorts more than a louver as a matte is directly on the screen while a louver, I think, is offset from the screen and the slats would seem to have more vertical blockage than a matte.

One disturbing thing I noticed is that letter borders were sharper on the LCDs than the S65 - is this possibly a result of Sam's setting up the plasma in vivid mode causing fuzziness on the letter borders?

I don't know - I haven't owned an LCD TV and haven't spent much time with one.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:52pm
post #1297 of 6834
oops; superfluous post
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/8/13 at 12:19pm
post #1298 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Yikes! I have a s60 on order but not sure I want it anymore... The floor model was gorgeous but it sounds as though gaming should not be played with this model unless one is willing to do lots of babying... Is it possible to cancel a Sears order without paying a restocking fee?

For the record, I was able to cancel the order without a restocking fee. I canceled for personal reasons (death in family). Hopefully I will be able to revisit this purchase in the fall. Love the picture on a S60!
post #1299 of 6834
No IR here, but I've been babying it during break in.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:52pm
post #1300 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

I don't know - I haven't owned an LCD TV and haven't spent much time with one. I've found the S64 to be very sharp with letters in menus, images in general and such.

*No complaints there at all. However, just as you said, "torch mode" could degrade things in a hurry. I'm using fairchild99's 6th iteration settings and I believe these are NOT overdriving things, so maybe that is why what I'm seeing is SHARP.

In lower light scenes where the depth of field is limited and background is therefore blurry, I find that to be noticeable more quickly on the 65" screen than on my previous 55ST60. Same goes for minor/momentary focus errors in cinematography. Motion blur was more noticeable the larger the screen is. My 55ST60 exaggerated that more than my old 36" CRT. My 65 exaggerates it more than my 55 did. I think the very large screen simply exaggerates some things. Make no mistake, though, I'm absolutely lovin' the added real estate! biggrin.gif

The S64 can have ultra sharp image/text edges if set on graphics mode, but I think that is actually an artifact with the edges of things glowing. Likewise with sharpness set higher. I could be wrong, but it seems to me with either graphics or high index sharpness, it harms clearness of motion - or that is my perception. I first had sharpness bumped slightly to plus 10 but have since returned it to zero and like it better there.

At 8 or 9 feet, the S64 images look very sharp to me. At 6 feet or closer, I start to see some pixel texture. This is almost certainly another subjective thing and is just MHO, but if the viewing distance is going to be closer than 7 feet, a 65PS64 may not be the thing. A 55 or 60S60 may be better at close range, guessing there.

Hoping someone else will comment on whether a 65" LCD would be sharper than an S64 'cause I simply don't know.

Did you happen to see whether the LCD was possibly in graphics mode or maybe someone had cranked sharpness up? Or maybe in torch mode for both, would LCD typically be sharper than plasma? I suspect it would but that is just a hunch.

At my gym last night, I noticed a 40" LG LCD just above and right in front of me on an elliptical machine had perfectly sharp letters at close range. Is this simply a plus of LCDs that they are able to display crystal clear white lettering?

I have no idea of the modes the TVs at Sam's were in as I didn't have time to play with them, and wouldn't really know how to as I've never owned a flat panel TV before.
post #1301 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael 
I'd like to see a side by side comparison of a 65S60 and a 65PS64 though I doubt that will happen soon. Kinda' difficult to move these giants around just for a quick comparo.

Short of owning both, this comparison will never happen, lol. If the purpose is to simply to see how the AR filter works though, just go to a Best Buy as several I've been to have S60's and ST60's next to each other. This wouldn't do much for comparing PQ though if that's what you're getting at. But again, the highest rated plasmas have AR filters, so I don't know why some people think they degrade PQ...
post #1302 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Short of owning both, this comparison will never happen, lol. If the purpose is to simply to see how the AR filter works though, just go to a Best Buy as several I've been to have S60's and ST60's next to each other. This wouldn't do much for comparing PQ though if that's what you're getting at. But again, the highest rated plasmas have AR filters, so I don't know why some people think they degrade PQ...

I think you're right. If my 65PS64 has degraded PQ because of the minimal AR filter, I would really be surprised.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:52pm
post #1303 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

At my gym last night, I noticed a 40" LG LCD just above and right in front of me on an elliptical machine had perfectly sharp letters at close range. Is this simply a plus of LCDs that they are able to display crystal clear white lettering?

I have no idea of the modes the TVs at Sam's were in as I didn't have time to play with them, and wouldn't really know how to as I've never owned a flat panel TV before.

I totally understand.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:52pm
post #1304 of 6834
do you guys have overscan on or off? I tried quite a few common DirecTV channels (locals, espn, hgtv, bet/mtv/vh1, hbo, and starz) and with overscan off there's no consistency. some channels have 'junk' in the extra space, while most of them have solid black. i would think that this solid black wouldn't help IR/burn-in any. while i'd love to have overscan off and view the 'whole picture', i feel i must have it on to prevent seeing junk or black lines.

i hope the next ps4 really has dual hdmi out. that way i can run one hdmi to the tv and have overscan off and the other to my denon avr to get lossless audio. then i can continue running directv through my denon avr to the tv with overscan on.
post #1305 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

do you guys have overscan on or off? I tried quite a few common DirecTV channels (locals, espn, hgtv, bet/mtv/vh1, hbo, and starz) and with overscan off there's no consistency. some channels have 'junk' in the extra space, while most of them have solid black. i would think that this solid black wouldn't help IR/burn-in any. while i'd love to have overscan off and view the 'whole picture', i feel i must have it on to prevent seeing junk or black lines.

i hope the next ps4 really has dual hdmi out. that way i can run one hdmi to the tv and have overscan off and the other to my denon avr to get lossless audio. then i can continue running directv through my denon avr to the tv with overscan on.

I have it set off and like it better that way.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:53pm
post #1306 of 6834
Finally got the WoW disk in. Not at all surprised to find that my values pretty much matched those of Fairchild's calibration. Though, oddly, things only matched up when I used 1080p direct with 4:4:4 output. When I tried his settings combined with test patterns with 1080p direct off and RGB standard output, they clipped. Wait. Whoops. I forgot to change the colors back to standard on the TV for the latter test. Might test again to see what I prefer. Regardless, great job Fairchild! The brightness setting is bang-on for getting rid of any and all red dithering on absolute black.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

No IR here, but I've been babying it during break in. 127 hours on the s64 so far. I could be all wet, but I definitely expect good IR resistance after 300 or 400 total hours. I'm not even concerned about it. But then, I'm only about a 10% gamer.

El Matadurr,

Were you able to get rid of the IR? If so, what did it take to do it?
If anything, most games (except Bioshock, apparently), are nice enough to have semi-transparent HUDs that contribute essentially zero to image retention. The menu screens in Halo 4 actually cause more retention than any form of gameplay.

I judge that I'm at about 225 hours with my set. However, the sensitivity to IR is still laughably bad. 10 seconds of any solid image will have varying degrees of retention. It goes away eventually, but it still happens and is very noticeable.

Moonchild's video didn't particularly help all that much since it was a 720x480 file, rather than a 1920x1080 to work each individual pixel. The WoW disk's infinitely looping pixel flipper at 1080p works extremely well, and is worth the price of admission alone. Pretty much all of the IR from my Bioshock run is gone, and I haven't even run it overnight, yet.

However, I'm still returning the TV due to the weird pops that are still going on, as well as the higher sensitivity to IR than most are reporting here. I'll try again later in the summer. Don't get me wrong, the S60 is a great-looking set (even with my problems). But to avoid IR, I would have to watch full-screen content all the time. With most blu-ray movies coming in at that 1:2.39 aspect ratio, though, I can't afford to do that on this particular set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

do you guys have overscan on or off? I tried quite a few common DirecTV channels (locals, espn, hgtv, bet/mtv/vh1, hbo, and starz) and with overscan off there's no consistency. some channels have 'junk' in the extra space, while most of them have solid black. i would think that this solid black wouldn't help IR/burn-in any. while i'd love to have overscan off and view the 'whole picture', i feel i must have it on to prevent seeing junk or black lines.

i hope the next ps4 really has dual hdmi out. that way i can run one hdmi to the tv and have overscan off and the other to my denon avr to get lossless audio. then i can continue running directv through my denon avr to the tv with overscan on.
Based on the many test patterns on my WoW disk, I leave any and all settings that affect overscan (Overscan, H size, Pixel Orbiter, etc.) off. Of course, running HDMI from a blu-ray player isn't particularly prone to edge noise, so in your case you may have to compromise with some overscan if the edge noise is noticeable.
post #1307 of 6834
El Matadurr,

Glad to hear you liked fairchild99's settings, too.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:53pm
post #1308 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

El Matadurr,

Glad to hear you liked fairchild99's settings, too. I think he put a lot of work into them. Sure makes my S64 panel look awesome.

From your observations, it does sound too sensitive to IR.

Sorry to hear you'll have to return your panel due to popping, etc. Any ideas what you'll try next?

fwiw, my 65PS64 seems to be "pop" and "buzz" free so far. But then, my ears are maimed so it isn't like I'd really know.

Glad to hear "pixel flipper" really works. I have a copy of the Wow disc on hand just in case.

Thanks,

mm
Good to hear the AR filter doesn't seem to be a detriment to PQ.

My next panel will probably be a......65S60. By summer's end, it will have probably dropped down to around $1350. I've already gotten used to the zero input lag from this set, and wouldn't trade up to anything but a GT60, which isn't available in the states anyways. The PQ is more than great in my light-controlled setup. Only things I wish could be better would be more shades of gradation (only noticeable in certain content, really...), higher motion resolution, and...a swivel stand? Haha.

You can use the prep slides to see if you need to use the pixel flipper. You'll notice any image retention as your ramp backwards from the three dark gray slides before the colors begin.
post #1309 of 6834
Edit: Note my current calibrations are for a very mature P50S60 which has over 2200 hrs on it at time of calibration. I suggest not using the Pro-W/B detail adjustment and Color detail adjustment settings and leave them at defaults (0 value) if you have a newer set with fewer hours or you have any issues. It's up to you though if you want to try those settings and use them from the beginning as they will eventually taper off once your set has more hours on it.

Current Cinema Calibration done on 11-3-13 4:20pm @ 2251 hours (To check hours, go to Menu, Help, Version, look at Status4. Mine said C2251 as of 11-3-13)

Goal of this calibration was to have a higher gamma to give the picture more pop when viewing in a darkened environment which I do about 80% of the time. Currently watching the Universal Monsters Collection blu-rays which consists of 9 movies on 8 discs. (currently on the Frankenstein disc)

I also checked my last calibration and it was still good and holding strong, so if you were using that one which gives a 2.2 gamma, then you can without any fears. This new one is an average gamma of 2.38
Quote:
MadVR used at 0-255, rgb limited pixel with AMD 7870, standard in HDMI2
gs 0.74 dE, gamma 2.38, colors 0.54 dE, color checker 1.10 dE, 31 fTL at 100% Gray

Picture Mode : Cinema
o Contrast : 80
o Brightness : -1
o Color : 46
o Tint : 0
o Sharpness : 0
o Color Temp : Warm2
o Vivid color : Off
o C.A.T.S. : Off
o Video NR : Off
o MPEG NR : Off

* Pro Settings
o Panel brightness : Mid
o AGC : 0
o Black extension : 0
o Color gamut : Normal

* W/B detail adjustment
o W/B high R : -3
o W/B high G : 1
o W/B high B : 1
o W/B low R : 8
o W/B low G : 0
o W/B low B : -4

* Color detail adjustment
o Red Hue : -1
o Red saturation : -10
o Red luminance : 4
o Green Hue : 0
o Green saturation : -15
o Green luminance : -2
o Blue Hue : 1
o Blue saturation : 3
o Blue luminance : 5

* Gamma detail adjustment
o Gamma : 2.6

* Advanced picture
o 1080p pixel direct : Off
o HDMI content type : Off
o HDMI/DVI RGB range : Standard
o Black level : Light

* Screen settings
o Screen format : Full
o Overscan : Off
o H size : Size 1








Picture settings using HDMI 2 for Cable HDTV (Optimum iO) and my HTPC (AMD/ATI HD7870 with Pixel Format set to RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB) + MadVR/Lav Filters). The viewing environment is in a dark room and a viewing distance of 6-10 feet (although these settings also work for daytime viewing for me as long as room is able to be light controlled). Calibration done with X-rite i1 Display2 colorimeter which was profiled for accuracy off my Colormunki Photo (spectrometer). Used the GCD 10% window patterns and the 100%/100% color 10% window patterns. MadVR set to 0-255. Achieved an average dE for grayscale of 1.06, gamma 2.23, average dE for colors 0.85, average dE for color checker of 1.16 dE, and a max light output of 32 fTL.
Quote:
Picture Mode : Cinema
o Contrast : 80
o Brightness : -1
o Color : 46
o Tint : 0
o Sharpness : 0
o Color Temp : Warm2
o Vivid color : Off
o C.A.T.S. : Off
o Video NR : Off
o MPEG NR : Off

* Pro Settings
o Panel brightness : Mid
o AGC : 0
o Black extension : 0
o Color gamut : Normal

* W/B detail adjustment
o W/B high R : 0
o W/B high G : 0
o W/B high B : -1
o W/B low R : 5
o W/B low G : 0
o W/B low B : -3

* Color detail adjustment
o Red Hue : -3
o Red saturation : -2
o Red luminance : 0
o Green Hue : 0
o Green saturation : 0
o Green luminance : -4
o Blue Hue : 1
o Blue saturation : 2
o Blue luminance : 2

* Gamma detail adjustment
o Gamma : 2.4

* Advanced picture
o 1080p pixel direct : Off
o HDMI content type : Off
o HDMI/DVI RGB range : Standard
o Black level : Light

* Screen settings
o Screen format : Full
o Overscan : Off
o H size : Size 1








Added this Custom version at request. Keep in mind, Custom will never be as accurate as Cinema when it comes to color accuracy with this particular model.

Picture Settings using HDMI for Cable HDTV (Optimum iO), and HTPC. The viewing environment is in a dark room and a viewing distance of 6-10 feet (although these settings also work for daytime viewing for me as long as room is able to be light controlled). Mascior's 4% APL window patterns were used with the 100% color 4% APL window patterns using my i1D2 colorimeter profiled against my Colormunki Photo spectrometer for accuracy. (38 ftl measured at 100 stimulus. average grayscale dE of 2.8 (7.1 at 20 stimulus and 5.7 at 30 stimulus). averag color dE of 0.94 with a measured gamma of 2.37)
Quote:
o Picture Mode : Custom
o Contrast : 85
o Brightness : 0
o Color : 46
o Tint : 0
o Sharpness : 0
o Color Temp : Warm2
o Vivid color : Off
o C.A.T.S. : Off
o Video NR : Off
o MPEG NR : Off

* Pro Settings
o Panel brightness : Mid
o AGC : 0
o Black extension : 0
o Color gamut : Normal

* W/B detail adjustment
o W/B high R : 2
o W/B high G : 0
o W/B high B : 0
o W/B low R : 0
o W/B low G : 0
o W/B low B : -1

* Color detail adjustment
o Red Hue : -5
o Red saturation : 0
o Red luminance : 0

o Green Hue : -1
o Green saturation : -12
o Green luminance : -1

o Blue Hue : 0
o Blue saturation : 2
o Blue luminance : 1

* Gamma detail adjustment
o Gamma : 2.4

* Advanced picture
o 1080p pixel direct : Off
o HDMI content type : Off
o HDMI/DVI RGB range : Standard
o Black level : Light

* Screen settings
o Screen format : Full
o Overscan : Off
o H size : Size 1

Edited by fairchild99 - 11/3/13 at 1:53pm
post #1310 of 6834
Glad to hear pixel flipper worked! If you're going to go 65 inch, why not just pick up the S64 that has the Infinite Black Pro? If you're looking to spend that much, the 65S64 costs just about that.
post #1311 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

I went ahead and played around with my meter again and came up with some different settings which put out a tiny bit more light output and have a higher gamma by pumping up the gamma to 2.6 now, it gives around 2.3 gamma. These settings don't seem to have as good color reproduction, so there is a bit of error in the saturation run, but I doubt it will be very noticeable in real content. Either way, the higher gamma is meant to provide more pop to the image and works better in a very dark environment. Here are the new settings, will leave the old settings at the bottom of this post and will update my sig.
Well look at you. smile.gif I look forward to plugging these in. Anything to improve light output and give even better very dark room performance is awesome to me. P.S. My dumb R/G colorblind eyes won't be able to tell the saturation differences, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Glad to hear pixel flipper worked! If you're going to go 65 inch, why not just pick up the S64 that has the Infinite Black Pro? If you're looking to spend that much, the 65S64 costs just about that.
I've thought about it, but I haven't found a friend that has a Sam's/Costco membership yet. I'm also not sure if it'll be available by the end of summer, since...they're supposedly limited-run. Besides, I don't need the AR filter anyway, and it doesn't seem to really do as much as I thought it might (based off in-store pictures from my own comparisons with the S60). Also, think of this, it'd be a nightmare to return if something went wrong. Takes a lot to convince a friend to let you use his/her membership to buy and pack-up a new TV. It takes a lot more to convince them that you need to try out another one and go through the ordeal another time.

Also, yes, thank you very much for introducing that pixel flipper concept, even though the bugged 720x480 one wasn't cutting it. Weird it only plays correctly in VLC. Every other player it stops at that 10-second mark just like the TV.
post #1312 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

Be sure to let us know how much better the ST is with glare.

got the st60 today, It's still pretty shiny, and there is still some glare, but it is very muted now. Also the blacks and color depth seem much better under regular room lighting. Too bad the 65" is 1k more than the 60. I think unless you are in a dark man-cave, I would go a s64 any day as an affordable alternative to the st60 (or if you game). I think the s60 would work if you limit it to night-time viewing, if you aren't in a cave situation, or are immune to glare smile.gif
post #1313 of 6834
So I've read through the 44 pages of posts, and I'm curious -

What information do we have that the S64 is a limited run? Besides not being in stock at every single Costco, is there any reason - i.e. info from a Pannasonic rep - to truly believe they are going to be hard to come by in two, three, four months?

Question comes, of course, from timing of finances. Definitely want the S64 panel due to light in my living room, but not ready to plunk down $1500 tomorrow . . . wife would kill me . . .need more time . . . !
post #1314 of 6834
Why doesn't the s64 have its own thread? Is it needed? I have the s64 since yesterday and looking for video settings has me wondering w/ the AR filter if they would differ
post #1315 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAELSU View Post

Why doesn't the s64 have its own thread? Is it needed? I have the s64 since yesterday and looking for video settings has me wondering w/ the AR filter if they would differ

fwiw, I find fairchild99's S60 settings to work magnificently well on my S64.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/21/13 at 9:53pm
post #1316 of 6834
I spent last week reading through all the pages of this thread as well before deciding to take the plunge and order a 65S64. IIRC, it is identical to the S60 with the exception of the AR filter, and maybe a "game mode", which doesn't concern me as I don't game. I haven't seen any S64 specific settings - everyone seems to use the S60 settings. So I don't see the need for a separate thread as there seems to be very limited data on the S64, and most information is applied from the S60. I don't believe the S64 is a limited run as the club warehouses move things in bulk, so can't see them selling limited production items for little profit. I needed a replacement for my dying widescreen CRT so couldn't wait months or until Black Friday for the prices to come down to last years models. Yes, I have yet to see one in a Costco, and Sam's online says limited stock, but they had plenty in one store and at least a display model in another store I visited (forgot to look underneath to count the inventory). I have not seen a 50S64 anywhere and don't even know if it's available online at either Sam's or Cosco. FWIW, I've haven't seen an 60S60 in Best Buy, Sears, Walmart, or Microcenter, so that model is even more scarce than the 65S64 to me.

Yeah, my original budget was to keep it under $1000, and got excited when I found the 60U50 for $700, and an LG and Samsungs for $800-$1000, but the 60U50 got snapped up before I could make a decision and Pannys blow away LG and Samsung in PQ and nothing under $1000 has an AR filter, so I ended up splurging for the 65S64. I decided if I can blow $700+ on skis that I might use 35 days in a good season and will be lucky not to destroy in under 5 years, I could justify $1500 on a TV that I might watch 300 days a year and hopefully last 10 years. I'm not so sure about Sam's online service however - I ordered mine on Friday, and the status was "processing" all weekend, then on Monday the status changed to "exception" and when I called, they said their fraud department flagged it because of a difference between billing and shipping addresses due to an additional space between the state and zip code and after answering some ID questions it's been in processing status ever since. Meanwhile I'm getting blue coloration on my CRT in addition to it powering off randomly so I hope the 65S64 ships and they call me for delivery arrangements soon before my CRT dies!

Also I sure hope Panasonic isn't abandoning the plasma market as my local NBC station did a report on UHD TVs and mentioned that OLEDs still have limited viewing angle so they will not replace plasmas IMHO. Hopefully Samsung and LG will figure out a way to produce UHD plasmas.
post #1317 of 6834
With all the pros and cons concerning different types of LCD backlighting and dimming, I'm so glad plasmas are still available! This is such a huge thread that I have no time to read all the posts.

I understand that when the TV is on for a while, auto brightness level kicks in, I guess to protect the display. Can the auto brightness level be disabled? If so, how do you go about disabling it? If not, with the panel brightness set to High, after the auto brightness level kicks in, will the TC-P##S60 still be at least as bright as the brightest LCD panels you can get today?
Edited by Big C - 5/8/13 at 1:33pm
post #1318 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

With all the pros and cons about all the different types of LCD backlighting and dimming, I'm so glad plasmas are still available! This is such a huge thread that I have no time to read all the posts.

I understand that when the TV is on for a while, auto brightness level kicks in, I guess to protect the display. With the panel brightness set to High, after the auto brightness level kicks in, will the TC-P##S60 still be at least as bright as the brightest LCD panels you can get today?

No you will not get LCD level brightness out of the S60, ABL is activated based on content not how long the display is on. No sure how aggressive the ABL is on the S60 I do know the U50 from last year had more aggressive ABL. Panel brightness set to high is unlikely to produce a good picture, most pros recommend mid panel brightness with high contrast.
post #1319 of 6834
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog000 View Post

So I've read through the 44 pages of posts, and I'm curious - What information do we have that the S64 is a limited run? Besides not being in stock at every single Costco, is there any reason - i.e. info from a Pannasonic rep - to truly believe they are going to be hard to come by in two, three, four months?

The "limited run" info came directly from AVJ in the Pansonic Insiders thread over at HDJ. He's an exec in Panasonic product development and is directly involved in the development of their TVs. The S64 is basically a "test run" to see how it sells in the harsh warehouse store environment. If it does well, they'll probably produce more of them.
post #1320 of 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Can ABL be disabled? If so, how do you do it?

No you can't disable it
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