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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 56

post #1651 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Or you could buy a Xrite i1 Display LT off ebay for super cheap and do a cal yourself using HCFR plus Curt Palme's calibration guide?

Now there's a thought. biggrin.gif
post #1652 of 6807
Why is it that many people prefer the s60 over the st60?
post #1653 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by wario76 View Post

Why is it that many people prefer the s60 over the st60?

The two big reasons are :

1)The picture quality is very similar to the ST60 for a lesser price.

2)The input lag is also much less on the S60 than the ST60.
post #1654 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post

The two big reasons are :

1)The picture quality is very similar to the ST60 for a lesser price.

2)The input lag is also much less on the S60 than the ST60.

+1

And the price difference can be pretty significant depending. My 65PS64 (basically an S60 with an AR filter) was 1400. 65ST60 is currently 2400 in Amazon. Huge price difference.

My former 55ST60 was a really nice panel as is my current S64, but LINDW4LL nailed it IMO.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/22/13 at 9:01pm
post #1655 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

+1

And the price difference can be pretty significant depending. My 65PS64 (basically an S60 with an AR filter) was 1400. 65ST60 is currently 2400 in Amazon. Huge price difference.

My former 55ST60 was a really nice panel as is my current S64, but LINDW4LL nailed it, IMO.
+2
post #1656 of 6807
MountainMichael -

Wondering if you wouldn't mind posting a link to your comparison post between the s64 and the ST60. I remember reading it pages and pages ago but I'm having a hard time finding it.

I am, probably like many others, am considering both sets. I'm probably going to go with the s64 for pure financial reasons - I'm a high school drama teacher with a passion for movies, and therefore not a lot of disposable income. I'd like to feel good about my purchase and would love your input as someone who as viewed both TVs in a home environment.

Thanks in advance.
post #1657 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Or you could buy a Xrite i1 Display LT off ebay for super cheap and do a cal yourself using HCFR plus Curt Palme's calibration guide?

I definitely recommend the guide at Curtpalme, as it's what I and probably many others used when they were getting ready to dip their toes in the calibration waters. I would not recommend you start with a i1 Display LT meter, since they have a large chance to be inaccurate as they have alot of variance and will drift with age.

I recommend to start either a Colormunki Display (if you need to save some funds) or an X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro. If you can spare even more funds I'd recommend a Colormunki Photo (spectrometer which will be more accurate). All 3 will work with the HCFR fork that JohnAd and Zoyd have been updating.

There is a bit of a learning curve, but where's the fun in everything being easy. wink.gif
post #1658 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog000 View Post

MountainMichael -

Wondering if you wouldn't mind posting a link to your comparison post between the s64 and the ST60. I remember reading it pages and pages ago but I'm having a hard time finding it.

I am, probably like many others, am considering both sets. I'm probably going to go with the s64 for pure financial reasons - I'm a high school drama teacher with a passion for movies, and therefore not a lot of disposable income. I'd like to feel good about my purchase and would love your input as someone who as viewed both TVs in a home environment.

Thanks in advance.

joedog000,

post 1142 - page linked below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/1140

If you don't video game much, I think they are both excellent panels.

Depending upon your sensitivities, you may or may not feel the ST60 is hamstrung for video games due to high input lag. The S60/64 have low input lag.
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/24/13 at 10:11pm
post #1659 of 6807
I've tried searching the thread for this, because i've seen numerous people mention turning OFF the Pixel Orbiter, but I'm not sure if i'm doing it correctly? When I go to the Pixel Orbiter setting, the only options are Auto or On, there is no "Off". It was set to On, so I changed it to Auto. Is this effectively turning it off?
post #1660 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post


...There is a bit of a learning curve, but where's the fun in everything being easy. wink.gif

Hear, hear!

I know you were responding to Moonchilde, still, thanks for the info.

mm
post #1661 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbtrini View Post

I've tried searching the thread for this, because i've seen numerous people mention turning OFF the Pixel Orbiter, but I'm not sure if i'm doing it correctly? When I go to the Pixel Orbiter setting, the only options are Auto or On, there is no "Off". It was set to On, so I changed it to Auto. Is this effectively turning it off?

Yes, most here consider that as "off" as you can set it. And according to what I've read here, that IS effectively OFF - at least with current firmware. I haven't read of any way that pixel orbiter can turn itself on when set at AUTO. So why did they call it that? Gosh only knows.
post #1662 of 6807
Thanks!
post #1663 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog000 View Post

Thanks!

YW.

Best of luck with whatever you choose. I hope you'll post your review in whichever thread after you get to know the panel.
post #1664 of 6807
Another inquiry...this time about the sound from the TV. Does anyone have any suggested best overall sound settings for movies/general tv viewing? I was testing out the set last night with Avengers Blu-Ray, and it seemed that the quieter parts of the film with mostly speech, I had to turn the volume up to at least 30, but then during action sequences, the sound was blaring pretty loudly. A big discrepancy. I'd prefer to not have to hurriedly turn down the volume during action sequences in a movie, if possible, and I don't have my surround sound speakers just yet.
post #1665 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbtrini View Post

Another inquiry...this time about the sound from the TV. Does anyone have any suggested best overall sound settings for movies/general tv viewing? I was testing out the set last night with Avengers Blu-Ray, and it seemed that the quieter parts of the film with mostly speech, I had to turn the volume up to at least 30, but then during action sequences, the sound was blaring pretty loudly. A big discrepancy. I'd prefer to not have to hurriedly turn down the volume during action sequences in a movie, if possible, and I don't have my surround sound speakers just yet.

I use User mode with everything set to 0 or off . Distance to wall at default of Over 1ft (since I'm not wall mounted) and equalizer set as such:

+3 150
+2 250
+1 500
0 1k
-1 2k
0 4k
+1 8k
+2 12k

Basically create a V on the EQ with emphasis on improving bass. Though frankly the speakers are weaksauce and I usually listen with my ATH-M50S cans.
post #1666 of 6807
I bought the S60 for the $399 deal last week. I have a Spears & Munsil calibration blu ray and I'm getting a really low number for contrast. CNET and Fairchild have it set in the low 80's, but with the calibration disc I'm getting a reading around 50. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
post #1667 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Michaels View Post

I bought the S60 for the $399 deal last week. I have a Spears & Munsil calibration blu ray and I'm getting a really low number for contrast. CNET and Fairchild have it set in the low 80's, but with the calibration disc I'm getting a reading around 50. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I don't know what the contrast pattern on the S&M disc looks like, but you generally only need to have from 230-234 flashing. Over that is just WTW information that isn't used in most content. As long as you dont have discoloration or clipping you can set Contrast depending on how much light output you want.

With 80 contrast in Cinema/Custom and Mid panel you get around 30-32 ftl, which is adequate for a dim room as well as a room with some ambient light. With a contrast of 50 you will have probably 20-25 ftl which is too dim for most.
post #1668 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

I don't know what the contrast pattern on the S&M disc looks like, but you generally only need to have from 230-234 flashing. Over that is just WTW information that isn't used in most content. As long as you dont have discoloration or clipping you can set Contrast depending on how much light output you want.

With 80 contrast in Cinema/Custom and Mid panel you get around 30-32 ftl, which is adequate for a dim room as well as a room with some ambient light. With a contrast of 50 you will have probably 20-25 ftl which is too dim for most.

Ok, great to know. I had cranked contrast up to 83 because it was just too dark at 50. I had not seen any problems at this level, but I felt bad going against what is supposed to be a great calibration disc.
post #1669 of 6807
Is anyone else noticing motion blur? Ive had my set running for a total of about 150 hours now and from the 1st day ive noticed motion blur especially during gaming.
post #1670 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mo View Post

Is anyone else noticing motion blur? Ive had my set running for a total of about 150 hours now and from the 1st day ive noticed motion blur especially during gaming.
Not any more than usual. The S60 "only" has 700 lines of moving picture resolution, with no motion smoother option to improve that. However, that's better than most LED/LCDs, and with the Panny you never have any trailing. The motion blur you're seeing could also be built into the game itself to transition the frames smoother (especially if it's a 30fps game). How big is your screen size, and how close are you sitting?
post #1671 of 6807
50" and 8 ft away
post #1672 of 6807
Curious to know about motion myself. My problem with LCDs has mainly been due to motion blur. Colorful sprites in games would fuzz out in motion and sharpen up when stopped. I would assume the blur isn't that bad, no? My only experience with plasma is my parents' Phillips 50" (720p/1080i) TV and I don't recall seeing blurring issues ( unless I just wasn't looking for the right thing). Rayman Origins seemed to vs crystal clear in motion.
post #1673 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Curious to know about motion myself. My problem with LCDs has mainly been due to motion blur. Colorful sprites in games would fuzz out in motion and sharpen up when stopped. I would assume the blur isn't that bad, no? My only experience with plasma is my parents' Phillips 50" (720p/1080i) TV and I don't recall seeing blurring issues ( unless I just wasn't looking for the right thing). Rayman Origins seemed to vs crystal clear in motion.

The "fuzzing" is because any motion on a plasma gets dither around the moving objects. Just how it is. Every plasma I've seen will dither the area moving. Static images or images with low motion tend not to dither as much.

Also, the phosphor lag is slower than CRT, so you'll also get "blur" from the phosphors trailing as things move and the trails overlap themselves. Mostly only noticeable on horizontally moving content, but text and web pages will trail vertically as you move them up or down.
post #1674 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

With 80 contrast in Cinema/Custom and Mid panel you get around 30-32 ftl, which is adequate for a dim room as well as a room with some ambient light. With a contrast of 50 you will have probably 20-25 ftl which is too dim for most.

Whaaaat? That's way too low. My ST60 would get 30+ fL at a setting of 52 and panel brightness Mid. Are the two sets that different?
post #1675 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

The "fuzzing" is because any motion on a plasma gets dither around the moving objects. Just how it is. Every plasma I've seen will dither the area moving. Static images or images with low motion tend not to dither as much.

Also, the phosphor lag is slower than CRT, so you'll also get "blur" from the phosphors trailing as things move and the trails overlap themselves. Mostly only noticeable on horizontally moving content, but text and web pages will trail vertically as you move them up or down.

Huh, maybe I've just never noticed it on my parents' TV. It's certainly nothing like a standard LCD screen. If I play something like a basketball video game, the lines on the court seem to scroll very smoothly on the plasma. On the LCD it just looks completely awful. I assume then that the motion blur Ryan is talking about is nothing compared to what I've seen on an LCD, and more comparable to the blur I'm not noticing on my parents' 6 year old plasma (unless plasmas are somehow worse with motion these days, which I doubt haha).
post #1676 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Disable Motion Smoothing. Or return the ST60, save a bunch of money, and pick up an S60. wink.gif

Why? Is the motion better handled on the S60 vs the ST60? That's not my impression from the reading I've done, especially considering the ST60 has proper 24p handling...

What is the PS3/60p workaround someone mentioned as well? I thought there wasn't much difference in whether the TV or the player did the conversion to 60p and I don't think it needs to be a PS3, but any Blu-Ray player set to 60p anyhow, correct?

Thanks.
post #1677 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Huh, maybe I've just never noticed it on my parents' TV. It's certainly nothing like a standard LCD screen. If I play something like a basketball video game, the lines on the court seem to scroll very smoothly on the plasma. On the LCD it just looks completely awful. I assume then that the motion blur Ryan is talking about is nothing compared to what I've seen on an LCD, and more comparable to the blur I'm not noticing on my parents' 6 year old plasma (unless plasmas are somehow worse with motion these days, which I doubt haha).

It's a different type of motion blur. Because the phosphors trail and have a decay of 3 ms, which in comparison to CRT's 1.5 ms. Still much better and faster than LCD, plus pixels change instantly via impulse rather than transition smoothly. You won't really notice it on slow moving objects, but say you're playing a 3rd person game, and spin the camera around the character. The main character is in the center, so it stays crisp, but the background pan if fast enough, will blur because the phosphors are having to update faster than they can decay. It's extremely minor.

Usually backgrounds like basketball courts will pan smoothly with minimal blur because they aren't moving extremely fast. Even a game like WipeOut HD on PS3 won't really get phosphor lag blur.

However, objects that move fast will get the fuzzy motion dither effect. This is most easily noticeable in classic 2D fighting games. The backgrounds don't really pan fast enough to blur but the characters can, so you'll see a fuzzy look to the sprites as they move across the screen and on top of that, a minor amount of phosphor lag blurring the details every so slightly. Even simply moving a mouse cursor across the desktop background will cause the image around the mouse movement to increase in dither noise and fuzz.
post #1678 of 6807
I'm completely new to plasma sets and just got a S60 but have a few questions.

-There is a pretty noticeable him coming from the set when there's no sound. Does this go away over time?
-I use an OTA antenna and was trying to figure out how to get audio to pass through to my receiver (without powering it on). Is this possible and which settings should I look for?
Edited by uncleguito - 5/24/13 at 7:30am
post #1679 of 6807
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleguito View Post

I'm completely new to plasma sets and just got a S60 but have a few questions.

-There is a pretty noticeable him coming from the set when there's no sound. Does this go away over time?

This is simply the sound of the Power Board doing its thing in the guts of the television. If I am not mistaken a plasma television is in a basic sense very similar to a fluorescent tube. An electric charge is passed through some gas, which when charged emits UV light, and that UV light causes the phosphors in each pixel to emit visible light.

We all know how florescent tube's buzz, and the tv is no different. It won't go away but you shouldn't be able to hear it over any kind of audio, if you can then your ears are either very good or their might be something wrong with your set.
post #1680 of 6807
I finally got my 65S64 set up yesterday. I noticed my set says the display is 1080i, then discovered my Comcast Motorola HD DVR / cable box only goes up to 1080i! Since I couldn't find any related thread here I'll ask here: does anyone with Comcast have a cable box that outputs 1080p? If so, I'm going to ask to swap my box out for a newer one. I previously just assumed it only went up to 1080i because my old TV was 1080i. In the meantime, it's a good excuse to hook up my antenna and see what kind of OTA reception I get and if I get 1080p through that.

The set is not too big for my room - the picture is great - now I can read the tiny temperature and/or time text local channels display at the right bottom of the screen - it seems like the screen is 3-4 times as big as my old 34" CRT! It does not dominate my large living/dining/kitchen room - in fact I could easily have a 100 inch display there (assuming it would fit between my front speakers). I took some pictures that I plan to post later, but most were in the middle of the day (when I never normally watch - just happened to get my clothes dryer delivered then - thumbs up for the Best Buy installers who also removed my old 200 pound CRT and helped lift the S64 onto the pedestal and my A/V shelf). I did notice some window blind reflection in dark areas of scenes, but nothing so bad as to wash out the screen and make it unwatchable like on my old CRT at peak afternoon west sun periods. I'll have to check the screen in afternoon to sunset sometime. Now that I'm looking for glare, I now actually notice sun glare from my east office bedroom CRT TV in the morning.
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