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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 59

post #1741 of 6832
Just to be clear. ARC is for sound. HDMI CEC just turns things on and off together. It is 2 different things.
post #1742 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have a Harmony 650. Panasonic 60ST50. Yahama RX-V675. I do not use ARC. It is not necessary with the Harmony and using the digital optical out from tv to AVR.
I tried ARC briefly but it was finicky.
Once you get the A820 you will be fine! smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Just to be clear. ARC is for sound. HDMI CEC just turns things on and off together. It is 2 different things.

Info appreciated; roger that. I'm going to let my Harmony 600 turn everything on and off, etc.
post #1743 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog000 View Post

I've been thinking about this issue myself as I prepare to make a purchase, so please someone correct me if I am wrong but with a modern blu-ray player - it won't matter.

ST60 = can properly display 24fps content, S60=can not properly display 24fps content.

However...even though the S60 can't process 24fps content, your blu-ray player probably can. Set the blu-ray player to send a 60fps (60hz) signal to the S60. The blu-ray player is doing the work that the S60 can't do. Problem solved.

Similar issue with decoding DTS or Dolby Digital sound - either your blu-ray player or your AVR can decode the sound. Doesn't matter which one does it, you'll get the same sonic experience.
Bingo, my blu-ray player processes 24->60 better than my S60 does. Though I still like the look of 24p+48hz. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post


Info appreciated; roger that. I'm going to let my Harmony 600 turn everything on and off, etc.
Sounds good Michael.
post #1744 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog000 View Post

I've been thinking about this issue myself as I prepare to make a purchase, so please someone correct me if I am wrong but with a modern blu-ray player - it won't matter.

ST60 = can properly display 24fps content, S60=can not properly display 24fps content.

However...even though the S60 can't process 24fps content, your blu-ray player probably can. Set the blu-ray player to send a 60fps (60hz) signal to the S60. The blu-ray player is doing the work that the S60 can't do. Problem solved.

Similar issue with decoding DTS or Dolby Digital sound - either your blu-ray player or your AVR can decode the sound. Doesn't matter which one does it, you'll get the same sonic experience.
Bingo, my blu-ray player processes 24->60 better than my S60 does. Though I still like the look of 24p+48hz. wink.gif

I didn't get a chance to thoroughly test this before, but your persistence of posting "let the player handle the 3:2 pulldown" encouraged me to do some testing with my setup.

I played a few scenes back-to-back-to-back-and-back-some-more with my PS3 in these configurations:

PS3 - 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI): 'Automatic' and 'Off'.
TV - 24p Direct In: 60Hz

So the only variable is when my PS3 is set to 'Automatic' my TV is receiving a 24Hz signal (verified by pressing Info on Panasonic remote) and providing the 3:2 pulldown. When my PS3 is set to 'Off' my TV receives a 60Hz signal, which means the PS3 is handling the 3:2 pulldown. My logic was that the TV (being 5 years newer) would do a better job at this; however, I was wrong. The TV looks smoother, not signicantly, but noticeably, when it's being fed a 60Hz signal. Thanks for being persistent with this El Matadurr!

I updated my settings right here.

Still crazy about this TV. Best 65" bang-for-buck in 2013 IMO.
Edited by moshock - 5/26/13 at 10:54pm
post #1745 of 6832
Hi all,

I recently bought the $400 42S60 at Sears. I am happy I lucked in to that price. I have been running slides all day and watching a bit at night. During the first episode of the first season of Game of Thrones, Ned and Robert are in the crypts. It seems that during this scene I am not getting a lot of detail in the dark scene. It seems kind of fuzzy. Is this crushed blacks? I am running the CNET settings. My Blu-Ray player is set to YCbCr 4:4:4 and HDMI Deep Color is off. Are these settings ideal?

Are there other settings on the Blu-Ray player that need to be addressed? My Blu-Ray player is a Sony BDP-S380.

Thanks for any help.
post #1746 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Hi all,

I recently bought the $400 42S60 at Sears. I am happy I lucked in to that price. I have been running slides all day and watching a bit at night. During the first episode of the first season of Game of Thrones, Ned and Robert are in the crypts. It seems that during this scene I am not getting a lot of detail in the dark scene. It seems kind of fuzzy. Is this crushed blacks? I am running the CNET settings. My Blu-Ray player is set to YCbCr 4:4:4 and HDMI Deep Color is off. Are these settings ideal?

Are there other settings on the Blu-Ray player that need to be addressed? My Blu-Ray player is a Sony BDP-S380.

Thanks for any help.
It most likely is the Brightness setting that needs to be "tweaked". The actual optimum settings vary from set to set - particularly for brightness. Bottom Line: take published settings with a grain of salt.
post #1747 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Hi all,

I recently bought the $400 42S60 at Sears. I am happy I lucked in to that price. I have been running slides all day and watching a bit at night. During the first episode of the first season of Game of Thrones, Ned and Robert are in the crypts. It seems that during this scene I am not getting a lot of detail in the dark scene. It seems kind of fuzzy. Is this crushed blacks? I am running the CNET settings. My Blu-Ray player is set to YCbCr 4:4:4 and HDMI Deep Color is off. Are these settings ideal?

Are there other settings on the Blu-Ray player that need to be addressed? My Blu-Ray player is a Sony BDP-S380.

Thanks for any help.

Try color 4:2:2
post #1748 of 6832
Also are you watching on Blu-Ray disc or an app on your BR player? If you're streaming it that could make the blacks drop out I'm sure.
post #1749 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

It most likely is the Brightness setting that needs to be "tweaked". The actual optimum settings vary from set to set - particularly for brightness. Bottom Line: take published settings with a grain of salt.

Good point. I am going to try Fairchilds settings next. I am not 'in the know' enough to do this on my own and I am partially color-blind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Try color 4:2:2

I will try this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Also are you watching on Blu-Ray disc or an app on your BR player? If you're streaming it that could make the blacks drop out I'm sure.

I am watching on Blu-Ray disc.
post #1750 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Good point. I am going to try Fairchilds settings next. I am not 'in the know' enough to do this on my own and I am partially color-blind.
Color perception has nothing to do with it. If there is no detail in the blacks, simply raise the Brightness till detail shows in the shadows (it is easiest if you can pause a dark image on the sceeen). Or, raise the level till real blacks turn gray, then back down till they just turn black again. As I said, someone else's settings often do not totally work. This is particularly true of black level settings (brightness).
post #1751 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Good point. I am going to try Fairchilds settings next. I am not 'in the know' enough to do this on my own and I am partially color-blind.
I will try this.
I am watching on Blu-Ray disc.

Best way is to use a calibration disc that has a Brightness pattern. Follow the pattern for said disc until your brightness is set properly. There are various free ones available such as the AVS HD709 disc or the GCD disc. If you don't have the means to download (can work through MP4/MKV files as well if your player support those) and/or burn to a disc, then you can purchase a calibration disc such as the S&M, DVE HD, Disney: World of Wonder.

Another super easy way to do this if you have access to connecting your TV to a computer through HDMI, just pop up the blank screensaver and increase/decrease Brightness till there is no dithering. You can also do this with any blu-ray movie that has been encoded with 2.35:1 or 2.4:1 aspect ratio, then look at the black bars. You increase brightness till you see dithering, then you drop it till there is no dithering. (one step at a time) That usually gets the brightness set properly with no loss of shadow detail.
post #1752 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

I didn't get a chance to thoroughly test this before, but your persistence of posting "let the player handle the 3:2 pulldown" encouraged me to do some testing with my setup.

I played a few scenes back-to-back-to-back-and-back-some-more with my PS3 in these configurations:

PS3 - 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI): 'Automatic' and 'Off'.
TV - 24p Direct In: 60Hz

So the only variable is when my PS3 is set to 'Automatic' my TV is receiving a 24Hz signal (verified by pressing Info on Panasonic remote) and providing the 3:2 pulldown. When my PS3 is set to 'Off' my TV receives a 60Hz signal, which means the PS3 is handling the 3:2 pulldown. My logic was that the TV (being 5 years newer) would do a better job at this; however, I was wrong. The TV looks smoother, not signicantly, but noticeably, when it's being fed a 60Hz signal. Thanks for being persistent with this El Matadurr!

I updated my settings right here.

Still crazy about this TV. Best 65" bang-for-buck in 2013 IMO.
G/ad it helped out. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Hi all,

I recently bought the $400 42S60 at Sears. I am happy I lucked in to that price. I have been running slides all day and watching a bit at night. During the first episode of the first season of Game of Thrones, Ned and Robert are in the crypts. It seems that during this scene I am not getting a lot of detail in the dark scene. It seems kind of fuzzy. Is this crushed blacks? I am running the CNET settings. My Blu-Ray player is set to YCbCr 4:4:4 and HDMI Deep Color is off. Are these settings ideal?

Are there other settings on the Blu-Ray player that need to be addressed? My Blu-Ray player is a Sony BDP-S380.

Thanks for any help.
Also, make sure you are running 1080p direct if you are outputting a 4:4:4 signal.
post #1753 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Best way is to use a calibration disc that has a Brightness pattern. Follow the pattern for said disc until your brightness is set properly. There are various free ones available such as the AVS HD709 disc or the GCD disc. If you don't have the means to download (can work through MP4/MKV files as well if your player support those) and/or burn to a disc, then you can purchase a calibration disc such as the S&M, DVE HD, Disney: World of Wonder.

Another super easy way to do this if you have access to connecting your TV to a computer through HDMI, just pop up the blank screensaver and increase/decrease Brightness till there is no dithering. You can also do this with any blu-ray movie that has been encoded with 2.35:1 or 2.4:1 aspect ratio, then look at the black bars. You increase brightness till you see dithering, then you drop it till there is no dithering. (one step at a time) That usually gets the brightness set properly with no loss of shadow detail.

Thanks for the advice. Can you explain what dithering is? I have googled it and it seems that it has to do with speckles in the what should be black area? I am in the process of buying the Disney disc as we speak, so in a few days I should be able to test that.
post #1754 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Color perception has nothing to do with it. If there is no detail in the blacks, simply raise the Brightness till detail shows in the shadows (it is easiest if you can pause a dark image on the sceeen). Or, raise the level till real blacks turn gray, then back down till they just turn black again. As I said, someone else's settings often do not totally work. This is particularly true of black level settings (brightness).

Thanks for the help. I will try this out.
post #1755 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Thanks for the advice. Can you explain what dithering is? I have googled it and it seems that it has to do with speckles in the what should be black area? I am in the process of buying the Disney disc as we speak, so in a few days I should be able to test that.

Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X6Xr9v-FfHY

Basically you don't want dithering at video black (which is 16 and down on some patterns). It is basically pixels firing on and off which is how plasma creates its picture.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1352196/pic-plasma-dithering-is-this-normal

This is something you should only notice if you are very very close from the screen (I'm talking inches away). At regular viewing distance it should not be visible. But you still want to calibrate any dithering out of the picture at black video levels. Which is why I suggested several methods to get rid of dithering at black video levels.

Be aware, any picture changes you make or any calibration you make may impact your brightness and you will need to go back and check that you are still set at the proper brightness.
post #1756 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

I didn't get a chance to thoroughly test this before, but your persistence of posting "let the player handle the 3:2 pulldown" encouraged me to do some testing with my setup.

I played a few scenes back-to-back-to-back-and-back-some-more with my PS3 in these configurations:

PS3 - 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI): 'Automatic' and 'Off'.
TV - 24p Direct In: 60Hz

So the only variable is when my PS3 is set to 'Automatic' my TV is receiving a 24Hz signal (verified by pressing Info on Panasonic remote) and providing the 3:2 pulldown. When my PS3 is set to 'Off' my TV receives a 60Hz signal, which means the PS3 is handling the 3:2 pulldown. My logic was that the TV (being 5 years newer) would do a better job at this; however, I was wrong. The TV looks smoother, not signicantly, but noticeably, when it's being fed a 60Hz signal. Thanks for being persistent with this El Matadurr!

I updated my settings right here.

Still crazy about this TV. Best 65" bang-for-buck in 2013 IMO.

Moshock,

Thanks for new settings. Appreciate it!

All:

S64 owner's poll is 7 for, one ambivalent. That last one suspiciously gave no input, so I don't think that vote was from an owner. Probably they've never even seen an S64 - just another garden variety troll.

I've invited that last one to provide detailed input with promise of no criticism; sincerely would like to know what he/she doesn't like. If it's "ABL", then that would obviously be our S60 thread's misinformed current ST60 owner who didn't know how to turn off CATS and/or ECO, not an S64 owner. rolleyes.gif

Assuming that is the case: We've just seen our first 'PPR' - "Psychic Panel Review". Able to criticize without ever seeing the panel. But somehow feels qualified to vote in an owner's poll. mad.gif (where IS the emoticon giving the finger?? ;-)

Still, maybe, just maybe it is an actual S64 owner. If so, in all seriousness, please post detailed info. If there is serious 'negatory' info, prospective buyers need to know.

fwiw, barring input after a few days I think I'll caution readers in that thread to disregard that vote as an obvious troll. Probably a regretful LCD or ST60 owner. biggrin.gif

mm
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/27/13 at 7:40pm
post #1757 of 6832
Hey guys I just bought this HDTV, new to this fourm and now entered the world of plasmas after being a customer of CRTs for a longtime
post #1758 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by acmilandrew View Post

Hey guys I just bought this HDTV, new to this fourm and now entered the world of plasmas after being a customer of CRTs for a longtime

acmilandrew,

Welcome to the dark side! What tube did you buy? S60, S64? Hope you're liking it...

If you have an S60 or S64, this thread contains a treasure trove of info.

fwiw

Micke
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/27/13 at 10:27pm
post #1759 of 6832
MOTION -VS- MOTION

Howdy again, you all.

A question:

Last night, I was watching some highly rated late model Chinese subtitled movie. The kung fu sequences were pretty good, but the motion blur was about to make me hurl. I actually had to give up way early and stop watching that flick.

Now, I'm watching some cheap not so well liked film called "Safe" with Jason Statham in the lead. The cameraman is doing all kinds of rude stuff jerking the camera all over the place, yet motion blur is minimal. No nausea despite that and other factors.

What gives? Why is this cheap film ok with horrific cinematography whereas the pricey one last night wasn't? Last night was a night "off" whereas tonight is with some "Canadian Mist" entertainment. So I'd think it would be much worse NOW, but no.

I can't believe the amateur antics of the cameraman in this flick, yet it looks totally ok.

Seriously, would really like to know what the major diff is? And it is a major difference.

FYI: Both are/were through Amazon instant vids.

TIA..

Micke
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/27/13 at 10:21pm
post #1760 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Moshock,

Thanks for new settings. Appreciate it!

All:

S64 owner's poll is 7 for, one ambivalent. That last one suspiciously gave no input, so I don't think that vote was from an owner. Probably they've never even seen an S64 - just another garden variety troll.

I've invited that last one to provide detailed input with promise of no criticism; sincerely would like to know what he/she doesn't like. If it's "ABL", then that would obviously be our S60 thread's misinformed current ST60 owner who didn't know how to turn off CATS and/or ECO, not an S64 owner. rolleyes.gif

Assuming that is the case: We've just seen our first 'PPR' - "Psychic Panel Review". Able to criticize without ever seeing the panel. But somehow feels qualified to vote in an owner's poll. mad.gif (where IS the emoticon giving the finger?? ;-)

Still, maybe, just maybe it is an actual S64 owner. If so, in all seriousness, please post detailed info. If there is serious 'negatory' info, prospective buyers need to know.

fwiw, barring input after a few days I think I'll caution readers in that thread to disregard that vote as an obvious troll. Probably a regretful LCD or ST60 owner. biggrin.gif

mm
Really, the only way someone would dislike a modern plasma like the S60/S64 is if they a) Are used to the retina-searing brightness of an LED/LCD b) Need to use the TV under medium to bright ambient light or c) Don't understand how to fiddle with picture controls to get out of the god-awful standard mode. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by acmilandrew View Post

Hey guys I just bought this HDTV, new to this fourm and now entered the world of plasmas after being a customer of CRTs for a longtime
Welcome, glad to have you here. Take a look at fairchilde99's calibrated settings for a good start for your new set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

MOTION -VS- MOTION

Howdy again, you all.

A question:

Last night, I was watching some highly rated late model Chinese subtitled movie. The kung fu sequences were pretty good, but the motion blur was about to make me hurl. I actually had to give up way early and stop watching that flick.

Now, I'm watching some cheap not so well liked film called "Safe" with Jason Statham in the lead. The cameraman is doing all kinds of rude stuff jerking the camera all over the place, yet motion blur is minimal. No nausea despite that and other factors.

What gives? Why is this cheap film ok with horrific cinematography whereas the pricey one last night wasn't? Last night was a night "off" whereas tonight is with some "Canadian Mist" entertainment. So I'd think it would be much worse NOW, but no.

I can't believe the amateur antics of the cameraman in this flick, yet it looks totally ok.

Seriously, would really like to know what the major diff is? And it is a major difference.

FYI: Both are/were through Amazon instant vids.

TIA..

Micke
It could have to do with how the cadence was transferred from the Chinese movie. There are many different cadences from the typical 3:2 pulldown we are used to, and many TVs cannot keep up with the odd formats that I'm assuming the Chinese movie was transferred to. I hate linking to Wikipedia, but here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Other_pulldown_patterns.
post #1761 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Really, the only way someone would dislike a modern plasma like the S60/S64 is if they a) Are used to the retina-searing brightness of an LED/LCD b) Need to use the TV under medium to bright ambient light or c) Don't understand how to fiddle with picture controls to get out of the god-awful standard mode. smile.gif
Welcome, glad to have you here. Take a look at fairchilde99's calibrated settings for a good start for your new set.
It could have to do with how the cadence was transferred from the Chinese movie. There are many different cadences from the typical 3:2 pulldown we are used to, and many TVs cannot keep up with the odd formats that I'm assuming the Chinese movie was transferred to. I hate linking to Wikipedia, but here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Other_pulldown_patterns.

El Matadurr,

Amen to your suggestion to the new guy about using fairchild99's settings. Those really MADE my S64 - and probably more so for S60's.

Past that, good points, all.

I'll bet that "other pulldowns" thing you linked is why the movie last night was so hard to watch. Unhappy about that as the story was captivating.

Thank you for the info and link. It makes sense to me.

As for the S64 vote with someone finally posting in less than positively, I totally agree with you. But of course, since the guy or gal didn't give any details, we are left to wonder. Or not. Probably it was just a troll.

mm
Edited by MountainMichael - 5/27/13 at 10:57pm
post #1762 of 6832
I put the AVS HD 709 slideshow on to a DVD and tested the black setting. The setting looks fine. I am getting exactly what it tells me I should get.

So I either have something else wrong, or that scene is not a very good indicator, or I am expecting too much.

I have a few good discs for testing, any good scenes to test black level and detail in Skyfall, Lord of the Rings, The Batman movies, etc...
post #1763 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

El Matadurr,

Amen to your suggestion to the new guy about using fairchild99's settings. Those really MADE my S64 - and probably more so for S60's.

I thought I would just throw this out there. I bought the 50" S60 and fairchild's settings on my set look exceedingly green. Someone posted some day settings a while back comparing it their old UT50 or something of the sort.

Those colour settings were much more pleasing to my eye as they looked more realistic to me, the only thing was the red was too saturated. I little fittling with the red saturation etc calmed that down somewhat.

That being said, I guess I also have a bit of a predisposition for more saturated colours, as any calibrated tv i've ever seen always look dull to me. If I go outside on a bright sunny day, the beautiful green trees and blue sky are way more saturated then any calibrated set i've ever had the chance to look at.

But thats just me biggrin.gif
post #1764 of 6832
I also think I am going to buy a TC-P65S64 from Costco.com and get it shipped to an american address I have. I don't want 3D, but I do need the AR filter for my living room. The prices for the 65ST60 up here in Canada are pretty rediculous, even for the 60 inch. The good thing about Costco is that you can return to any location.
post #1765 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

I also think I am going to buy a TC-P65S64 from Costco.com and get it shipped to an american address I have. I don't want 3D, but I do need the AR filter for my living room. The prices for the 65ST60 up here in Canada are pretty rediculous, even for the 60 inch. The good thing about Costco is that you can return to any location.
Just curious: what happens when you go across the border with the Plasma in your vehicle?
post #1766 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

acmilandrew,

Welcome to the dark side! What tube did you buy? S60, S64? Hope you're liking it...

If you have an S60 or S64, this thread contains a treasure trove of info.

fwiw

Micke

The 50" S60, its my first plasma HDTV and I like it so far, just have a question regarding the YouTube app, when it plays 1080p video it lags a lot does that have to do with the processor itself in the television, my internet connection, the wifi thats inside the tv or something else?
post #1767 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I thought I would just throw this out there. I bought the 50" S60 and fairchild's settings on my set look exceedingly green. Someone posted some day settings a while back comparing it their old UT50 or something of the sort.
That's exactly what can happen when using published settings. There are too many sample to sample variations.
Quote:
If I go outside on a bright sunny day, the beautiful green trees and blue sky are way more saturated then any calibrated set i've ever had the chance to look at.

But thats just me biggrin.gif
The problem is that the (gamut) capabilities of most of today's display technologies is much less than what occurs in nature. That's why all displays look "less colorful" than real life. In order to provide some degree of consistency standards have been set up for displays. Movie and TV production people have their monitors set up (calibrated*) to those standards so that there is consistency in evaluating the "look" of their images. If one wants to see a movie the way the director intended, then he/she ought to do it on a calibrated display. If they want the most saturated image, or their own personal preference - tweak away! smile.gif

*A note on "calibration" according to Webster "calibrate" is to ":to adjust precisely for a particular function". Taking someone else's settings is NOT calibrating. (End preaching).
post #1768 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Just curious: what happens when you go across the border with the Plasma in your vehicle?

I pay New Brunswick sales tax. The tax is 13% but I would still be way ahead. Come to think of it though, I have never paid duty on a TV, which is weird because they are probably not made in North America.
post #1769 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

I pay New Brunswick sales tax. The tax is 13% but I would still be way ahead. Come to think of it though, I have never paid duty on a TV, which is weird because they are probably not made in North America.

It's nut how much more we pay for televisions here in Canada than in the USA.
post #1770 of 6832
It is nuts. I pretty much buy everything on-line now and get it shipped to an address just across the border. Between friends and family, someone is always coming across the border who can pick my stuff up.
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