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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 92

post #2731 of 6832
I just bought the Panasonic P50S64 and I’m trying to adjust the settings to particularly get best skin tones. My comparison standard is my 27” CRT Phillips Magnavox that displays very good facial skin tones,
I have OTA/Antenna reception and mostly watch PBS programs.
Initially I used the Fairchild settings. However it generally appears that skin tones are too reddish.

My overall question is how to adjust the various parameters to get a more accurate skin color?

Basically the adjustments are in 2 groups. The basic group includes:

Picture Mode
Contrast
Color
Tint
Sharpness
Color Temp

Pro Settings has 2 major groups for adjusting R,G,B, characteristics:
W/B detail adjustment
Color detail adjustment

The basic adjustments are more readily useable for seat-of-the-pants adjustments. The pro settings seem much more difficult to use because of the number and complexity of the adjustment parameters.

Are there any techniques to easily tweak the pro setting without using specialized test equipment?
Do the calibration disks enable one to adjust the pro settings?
Or, initially, should I not mess with the pro settings?

Also in the tweaking process is it OK to freeze an image for a long time while varying the settings, and not get permanent screen image burn?
post #2732 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustipated! View Post

I have played tons of games (PS3/360/PC) of all genres (racing/shooters/3rd person adventure/etc) and had NO problems with burn-in whatsoever on my 42" S60 or 50" S64. Works brilliantly, image retention is not an issue.

What I did was run color slides every day all day/night for the first week or two (100-120+ hours), and also calibrated it using fairchild's settings. In between the color slides for a couple hours a day, I'll play games, watch HD movies/shows I've downloaded, etc. This gives it a wide variety of content to age the panel with, and also allows me to enjoy it without worrying about image retention.

This technique has worked fine for me thus far, and image quality is gorgeous while image retention is nonexistent. This is the procedure I'd recommend to a gamer. The TV works great BTW, input lag is imperceptible, even on very fast paced shooters.

I game occasionally and this is exactly what I needed to hear to confirm that I'm buying this set. The only decision is whether or not I want to pay twice as much and spring for the 65" model. I'm trying to justify it to myself by saying that if I get the 65" that it'll be enough to keep me from upgrading TVs for another five years or so. Hmm...

I'm really praying these units don't buzz. I heard the same about the UT50, but I had two panels and both had audible buzzing during quiet scenes at normal viewing distance, enough so to be irritating enough to drive me to return the display.

Fingers crossed.
post #2733 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxboy2063 View Post

I just bought the Panasonic P50S64 and I’m trying to adjust the settings to particularly get best skin tones. My comparison standard is my 27” CRT Phillips Magnavox that displays very good facial skin tones,
I have OTA/Antenna reception and mostly watch PBS programs.
Initially I used the Fairchild settings. However it generally appears that skin tones are too reddish.

My overall question is how to adjust the various parameters to get a more accurate skin color?

Basically the adjustments are in 2 groups. The basic group includes:

Picture Mode
Contrast
Color
Tint
Sharpness
Color Temp

Pro Settings has 2 major groups for adjusting R,G,B, characteristics:
W/B detail adjustment
Color detail adjustment

The basic adjustments are more readily useable for seat-of-the-pants adjustments. The pro settings seem much more difficult to use because of the number and complexity of the adjustment parameters.

Are there any techniques to easily tweak the pro setting without using specialized test equipment?
Do the calibration disks enable one to adjust the pro settings?
Or, initially, should I not mess with the pro settings?

Also in the tweaking process is it OK to freeze an image for a long time while varying the settings, and not get permanent screen image burn?

You can always go into the colour detail adjustment and fiddle with the red settings to de-saturate the reds a bit. Also, try changing the color temperature from warm2 to warm1. That is personally more pleasing to my eye, and will take some of the red out in the process.
post #2734 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxboy2063 View Post

Initially I used the Fairchild settings. However it generally appears that skin tones are too reddish.

Use Normal color temp instead of Warm2. That looks more natural to me.
post #2735 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigs2 View Post

I could use a bit of advice to help decide if I'm just unlucky or if this model is just not for me.

I'm now on my second 50" S64. Both have had a plasma buzz/hum that is audible at a normal viewing distance (10'). You can clearly hear it with the sound off, and it is loud enough to be noticeable at low volume, during dialogue, quiet parts of a movie, etc.

Have I just had bad luck on both sets, or is this normal for this model? I may just be bothered by these sorts of noises more than most people. Should I really expect that if I go through the return process again that I will end up with a set that is noticeably quieter? I love the set other than the hum, so I hate to give up on it without good reason.

If you're talking about buzzing that increases with screen brightness, it's normal. After going through two 50ST60s and one 50S60 that buzzed about the same and were manufactured in three different months, plus reading many reports like yours as well as three reviews noting the buzzing and none claiming silence, I'm convinced they all do it. As for the claims about sets that don't buzz, I file them in the same place I file claims concerning silent refrigerators. Some people just plain don't notice things for whatever reason, some conduct improper tests with excessive ambient noise, some are exaggerating or even trolling, etc.
post #2736 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shon528 View Post

Hi, lurked on here for the past few weeks and ended up picking up a 50" S64 from Costco for $629 +tax and also had to renew my membership which had lapsed. I've been trying to read through this thread and am only up to pg22 so far, still reading. Anyway, do I understand correctly that before using the calibration settings on the 1st page, I should let the tv burn-in (is that the right term?) for about 100hrs? Out the box, it was dark and grainy. The only adjustments I made were turning the CATS feature off, it instantly brightened up, and also changed the color temp to warm2. I'm a Best Buy reward silver member but I've read that the settings here are as good or better than having them come out. Looking forward to getting the best picture possible. The room it is in has 3 sliding patio doors but no direct sunlight, hence why I went w/ the S64.

Also make sure you turn Power Savings off to keep it from dimming your screen.

I think 100 hours (or maybe 300 now as Fairchild has said something like this TV's phosphors are incredibly dynamic compared to previous years) is the recommended burn-in before using his calibrations.

bronxboy206, I've left the AVS HD709 calibration test patterns on for up to 15 minutes or so while tweaking my settings. I even accidentally fell asleep while one calibration pattern was on for maybe 1.5 hours without any IR. Maybe I was lucky, but I had probably 100 hours on my set when I did this. I figure you're safe to leave the image on for 10-15 minutes.

For those who don't already have a current Costco membership, it may be worth it to buy from Sam's as they have a free shipping on all TVs promotion that started yesterday. I have investigated this deal in detail, but the e-mail promotion sent to me has fine print at the bottom saying, "Limited time only. While supplies last.", and another member confirmed it was good on the S64 models yesterday.
Edited by HDTimeShifter - 7/15/13 at 12:30pm
post #2737 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigs2 View Post

I'll likely drive across town to another Costco if I try to get a third set. Recognizing that hearing my TV is person isn't possible maybe I should rephrase the question in a way that is easier to test...

For S64 owners - when you turn on your TV with the volume off and sit a normal viewing distance (e.g. 10') do you hear:
A. Sweet silence
B. Electrical buzz/hum that ideally wouldn't be there but you live with it since the set is otherwise worth it
C. Some faint noise but nothing of note

I don't hear any buzzing from my 65S64 at 10'+ with normal content (TV and movies). If I put my ear less than 2 inches from the screen or behind the panel by the speaker holes, I can hear faint buzzing. The only time I heard buzzing from my couch at 10' was with the lighter grey and white D-Nice slides.

I think the majority of owners here don't hear buzzing at a normal viewing distance with normal content.

I wonder if any buzzing is louder on a 65" than a 50" because of the larger size?

In the past, I thought buzzing was an issue limited to high altitudes since they typically manufacture sets at sea level.

I do have a fanless Motorola DVR/Comcast cable box that I can hear electrical hum from a few feet above. When my HTPC is on, I can hear the 2 120 mm fans over the DVR from a few feet away.

My hearing has been regularly tested with no loss of hearing as recently as 5 years ago. When Michael Schumacher was still racing for Ferrari a few years ago, I could tell whether a Ferrari or Renault or Mercedes McLaren F1 racecar was running on Speedvision just by the engine note through my sound system before looking up at my TV while looking at what I was chopping on my cutting board while preparing a meal. I can still hear the difference between a Ferrari and McLaren, but not sure I can hear the difference between a Renault and Red Bull or those two and a McLaren. The last few years, my ears seem to often get clogged with wax, but I only conduct listening tests when they are clear.
post #2738 of 6832
From the 2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread you said:
Quote:
"fairchild99" url="/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread/540#post_23291018"]

On my HTPC blu-ray player setup I have my AMD/ATI card outputting RGB Full (0-255) then have my S60 HDMI range set to Nonstandard, then I use MadVR (video renderer) which is set to PC Levels (0-255) and voila, best quality for blu-ray's. (note, you will also need a way to decrypt said blu-ray's on your computer to be able to view them...)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1357375/advanced-mpc-hc-setup-guide is a good guide.

You don't get 3d out of this setup though, so at that point, no idea what software you plan to use, and how to set it to the best quality settings.

I don't use my HTPC for blu-rays, I just extend the display from my computer to the television and watch HQ .mkv files. Would the 4:4:4 RGB Full, with MadVR/Lav Filters and HDMI/DVI RGB range : Nonstandard be better for that, or is that mainly for blu-ray movies? With my 2010 panny i just throw it up on the screen using ffdshow + vlc and it seemed fine but I didn't know I could possibly make files from the computer to the television look better.
post #2739 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I don't hear any buzzing from my 65S64 at 10'+ with normal content (TV and movies). If I put my ear less than 2 inches from the screen or behind the panel by the speaker holes, I can hear faint buzzing. The only time I heard buzzing from my couch at 10' was with the lighter grey and white D-Nice slides.

If I can hear buzzing at 10' with slides, I can hear it with high APL real material, like Family Guy living room scenes, many outdoor scenes in Survivor, etc. The only way I won't hear it is if the audio and/or ambient noise drowns it out. As I've written earlier, I can go hours without hearing buzzing with lots of material, but there is other material where high APL regularly coincides with low audio levels, and buzzing is audible under those conditions. I do use Contrast 64 on my 50ST60, which helps a lot with the buzzing, and I decided it was tolerable.
post #2740 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

If I can hear buzzing at 10' with slides, I can hear it with high APL real material, like Family Guy living room scenes, many outdoor scenes in Survivor, etc. The only way I won't hear it is if the audio and/or ambient noise drowns it out. As I've written earlier, I can go hours without hearing buzzing with lots of material, but there is other material where high APL regularly coincides with low audio levels, and buzzing is audible under those conditions. I do use Contrast 64 on my 50ST60, which helps a lot with the buzzing, and I decided it was tolerable.

I haven't heard it with Survivor, but will listen for it next time I watch it.
post #2741 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I haven't heard it with Survivor, but will listen for it next time I watch it.

I meant "daytime" scenes instead of "outdoor" scenes. They're all outdoors. D'oh! tongue.gif Anyway, it was just an example. The necessary conditions are high APL and low audio level, which includes pure dialogue at "normal" volume levels; even if you can't hear it over someone's voice, conversations have natural lulls, and buzzing can become audible then.
post #2742 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I don't hear any buzzing from my 65S64 at 10'+ with normal content (TV and movies). If I put my ear less than 2 inches from the screen or behind the panel by the speaker holes, I can hear faint buzzing. The only time I heard buzzing from my couch at 10' was with the lighter grey and white D-Nice slides.

I think the majority of owners here don't hear buzzing at a normal viewing distance with normal content.

I wonder if any buzzing is louder on a 65" than a 50" because of the larger size?

In the past, I thought buzzing was an issue limited to high altitudes since they typically manufacture sets at sea level.

I do have a fanless Motorola DVR/Comcast cable box that I can hear electrical hum from a few feet above. When my HTPC is on, I can hear the 2 120 mm fans over the DVR from a few feet away.

My hearing has been regularly tested with no loss of hearing as recently as 5 years ago. When Michael Schumacher was still racing for Ferrari a few years ago, I could tell whether a Ferrari or Renault or Mercedes McLaren F1 racecar was running on Speedvision just by the engine note through my sound system before looking up at my TV while looking at what I was chopping on my cutting board while preparing a meal. I can still hear the difference between a Ferrari and McLaren, but not sure I can hear the difference between a Renault and Red Bull or those two and a McLaren. The last few years, my ears seem to often get clogged with wax, but I only conduct listening tests when they are clear.

Someone in the ST60 thread stated the 50" was worse than the larger sizes for buzzing. My 50" ST60 definitely buzzes. I never hear it when watching TV over the surround sound but I can hear it with no audio at normal viewing distance. I'm at a little over 4000' elevation with the TV in an open closet that probably amplifies the buzz so with those two put together the buzzing is probably worse than at sea level in an open room.
post #2743 of 6832
Finally got around to doing another calibration. I'm at over 1100 hours now. I went ahead and instead of just touching up my other Cinema calibration, I went ahead and did a new one from scratch using Cinema mode and using a different approach to the colors. Instead of using the usual 100% color patterns which are 100% luminance and 100% saturation, I used 75% luminance and 75% saturation for the color. This is what alot of calibrators suggest using for plasma's so thought I'd give it a go and see how it looks. I also only used my spectrometer this time instead of using my older colorimeter and profiling it off the spectro, so don't be alarmed by the high de's at the lower IRE's (10-30) the part that matters the most in most content is 40-70 IRE and that's usually what I make sure to have the best results. I left the other tried and true Cinema and Custom calibrations using the 100% color for those that still want to use those.

As always the latest is in my signature or at the start of this thread which links to my original post. It'll be the top Cinema settings which I made sure to also properly describe. Enjoy!
post #2744 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Finally got around to doing another calibration. I'm at over 1100 hours now. I went ahead and instead of just touching up my other Cinema calibration, I went ahead and did a new one from scratch using Cinema mode and using a different approach to the colors. Instead of using the usual 100% color patterns which are 100% luminance and 100% saturation, I used 75% luminance and 75% saturation for the color. This is what alot of calibrators suggest using for plasma's so thought I'd give it a go and see how it looks. I also only used my spectrometer this time instead of using my older colorimeter and profiling it off the spectro, so don't be alarmed by the high de's at the lower IRE's (10-30) the part that matters the most in most content is 40-70 IRE and that's usually what I make sure to have the best results. I left the other tried and true Cinema and Custom calibrations using the 100% color for those that still want to use those.

As always the latest is in my signature or at the start of this thread which links to my original post. It'll be the top Cinema settings which I made sure to also properly describe. Enjoy!

Cool - thanks!

Does it look better to your eye than the last 100% setting?
post #2745 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Cool - thanks!

Does it look better to your eye than the last 100% setting?

As long as the colorimeter is correct, it will look exactly as the directors intended it. So hire the most expensive calibrator there is in your area. It is absolutely necessary.
post #2746 of 6832
Thanks for all the feedback on the buzzing noise levels. The variety of opinions motivated me to try a new round of tests to try to reduce the buzzing. I went through a lot of different trials (various outlets/circuits, with/without surge protectors, isolating electronics, etc.). In the end only one thing made a meaningful difference for me: the location of the TV.

When I moved to to the middle of the house in an open room it sounds much closer to what many other folks report (audible at a normal viewing distance with the sound off, but largely fine when any volume is on). When I move it back to the original location I'm back to the louder buzz. I assume this is some combination of either the acoustics of the room, or electromagnetic interference.

Unfortunately the place I need to put the TV happens to be right where the main power comes into the house so that may be a factor for EMI. From what I can tell the particular spot I want to put it happens to be the loudest. Lugging around a large TV makes listening for the changes more difficult, but I think it gets louder the closer I get to that spot.

I'll do some more playing around with it before I decide the fate of the new set, but wanted to post my findings for anyone else who's been bit by the buzz.
post #2747 of 6832
how to I get to color detail adjustment ?
post #2748 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Cool - thanks!

Does it look better to your eye than the last 100% setting?

I haven't put that much content to it as I had to go to bed, but I did test with Skyfall and the flesh-tones looked good. Overall the picture has less red in it as compared to the other Custom settings which is all I can directly compare it to. The Custom settings though will always have colors that aren't quite as accurate as Cinema just because of the way that mode is designed.
post #2749 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank verna View Post

how to I get to color detail adjustment ?

In in the pro settings picture menu. Please check the manual for more information.
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/E-HELP_S60.PDF
post #2750 of 6832
I just received the 60s64 today and set it all up. So far I'm extremely satisfied with this TV. While the picture looks amazing, the thing I'm really impressed with is the glare filter. I have this in my family room with 3 large windows (1 west facing and 2 south facing) and a reef aquarium so there is plenty of light but the filter does an amazing job cutting it all down. I am coming from a Samsung PN59D550 plasma which was like a mirror. I was really debating an LED due to the potential glare issues, but I couldn't resist the great reviews and bang for the buck of this TV. I haven't noticed any buzzing unless I put my face right up to the screen or behind it (I think some people need to realize all plasmas buzz) and I haven't heard any of the pops mentioned. I'm using fairchilds settings and will be breaking it in over the next couple weeks, but even now I think it looks incredible.
post #2751 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonDonald View Post

I just received the 60s64 today and set it all up. So far I'm extremely satisfied with this TV. While the picture looks amazing, the thing I'm really impressed with is the glare filter. I have this in my family room with 3 large windows (1 west facing and 2 south facing) and a reef aquarium so there is plenty of light but the filter does an amazing job cutting it all down. I am coming from a Samsung PN59D550 plasma which was like a mirror. I was really debating an LED due to the potential glare issues, but I couldn't resist the great reviews and bang for the buck of this TV. I haven't noticed any buzzing unless I put my face right up to the screen or behind it (I think some people need to realize all plasmas buzz) and I haven't heard any of the pops mentioned. I'm using fairchilds settings and will be breaking it in over the next couple weeks, but even now I think it looks incredible.

Time to invest in some good shutters.
post #2752 of 6832
right. Posted on the other thread for when s60s start shipping, figured I should post here instead. mpAE
post #2753 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by smlorry View Post

right. Posted on the other thread for when s60s start shipping, figured I should post here instead. mpAE

You are asking the s60's start shipping? If so they started shipping months ago.
post #2754 of 6832
Samsclub.com offered free shipping on 65S64 and now costco.com has matched it. Did not check the 50" version.
post #2755 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot4 View Post

Samsclub.com offered free shipping on 65S64 and now costco.com has matched it. Did not check the 50" version.

I wonder if costco would credit me the shipping back on my unit, from 3 weeks ago?
post #2756 of 6832
I'm very interested in this TV and have a couple of questions:
  1. How do you break-in a Plasma set, to avoid burn-in problems?
  2. Does this TV buzz when turned off?

Thanks!
post #2757 of 6832
you can't really break in a TV to avoid burn in... that's just a myth. my friend's 2010 plasma has been used a lot over the last 3 years and he still gets image retention that can last for weeks.

to avoid image retention you just need to avoid gaming or watching anything with a static image. that's the only true proven 100% solution.
post #2758 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oimagination View Post

you can't really break in a TV to avoid burn in... that's just a myth. my friend's 2010 plasma has been used a lot over the last 3 years and he still gets image retention that can last for weeks.

to avoid image retention you just need to avoid gaming or watching anything with a static image. that's the only true proven 100% solution.

I own 3 Panny plasmas and have played a PS3 for hours at a time on all 3 of them without any problems. You don't need to avoid playing games on a plasma. Some panels seem to be more prone to IR than others, if you get unlucky and get a TV that's overly susceptible to IR you might have problems, those TVs are the minority, most won't have problems playing games as long as you do some normal TV viewing in between game sessions.

To break-in a plasma, just avoid black bars and static images for the first 100-200 hours. I started playing games on my ST60 before ever even getting to 100 hours and have had zero IR problems.
Edited by samijubal - 7/17/13 at 10:50am
post #2759 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by vizbar View Post

I'm very interested in this TV and have a couple of questions:

[*] Does this TV buzz when turned off?

I've got one of the louder buzzing sets, but it is still silent when off. When turned off it's about as loud as you'd expect a large chunk of metal and glass to be.
post #2760 of 6832
Fairchild: you changed your settings for HDMI/DVI RGB range : Standard straight across the board now, why is that? I finally got MPC + mad/lav and put everything in catalyst and MPC to 4:4:4RGB full. Before when you did HTPC you said to put it to non-standard and now it's just standard. What's the reason for that as I literally just did my 100 hours and doing the settings right now.
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