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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 123

post #3661 of 6832
I have posted several times about my perceived Red push issue with my 50S64. This shows up as unnatural facial tones, blue skies that have a purplish tone, abnormally dark ocean water, etc.

I have tried most of the settings posted on this forum but have not succeeded in neutralizing the red bias. The best I could do was when I reduced color to 40-44 and increased tint to +9.
However PQ was not good.

What I'd like to be able to do is tweak settings to reduce red push and increase yellow to give a better facial tone. However the only settings in Pro are for R,G.B .............so I don't know how it's possible to increase yellow tone?.

Included here are 2 screen pictures showing the red push on the S64 and the same image on my 27"CRT TV. I like the PQ on my CRT and I'd be happy if I were able to simulate that on the S64
This image is from a Warren Miller ski movie DVD.

. 50S64
CRT TV

Commentary, feedback and tweak suggestions are welcome.
Thanks to all that have replied to me before and those yet to do so.

Edited by fibonacci3 - 8/29/13 at 11:03pm
post #3662 of 6832
Though you can see the red push a slight bit to me you really had to look for it in those pics but its hard to tell through pictures. I also feel your CRT has some green push as well
post #3663 of 6832
From what I remember Mack warranties are pretty good at least that was the talk back when I purchased the KURO. I will have to research them some more.

I think at this point I'm going to get the 50ST50. Anything larger will look ofd in my room it's unfortunate I can't put a larger TV downstairs but no use will come of it. I could save by going 50s64 if they are still at Costco. But the st50 seems like what i would enjoy picture wise and for games.
Any opinion on this? Unless the s60/64 has superior blacks and performance.
post #3664 of 6832
Costco 65" arriving tomorrow....can't wait.
post #3665 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Though you can see the red push a slight bit to me you really had to look for it in those pics but its hard to tell through pictures. I also feel your CRT has some green push as well

The red push is evident to me in the facial tone...in direct view it's more dramatic than these pictures indicate. However bottom line is how can I tweak to get more yellow hue in the facials?
post #3666 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Though you can see the red push a slight bit to me you really had to look for it in those pics but its hard to tell through pictures. I also feel your CRT has some green push as well

Yup this is was the same advice I gave him over PM . He is comparing his plasma to a CRT and LCD that may not have been calibrated correctly in the first place.

Like you the CRT image is far too green/yellow.

I don't really see red bias on the first picture anyways, it seems more blue to me
post #3667 of 6832
i'll finally be getting a 55" Panasonic S60 within the next couple of weeks before BestBuy's sale ends on Sept 19th. But i've got to say, for the most part i'm just not a big horn dog for HD when it comes to film...Call me crazy, but I feel like it just doesn't really add much nor is the difference as mind blowing as people make it out to be Vs watching bluray in 480i via component cables on a good Sony CRT SDTV. Bluray looks clear enough on my CRT, i don't need the higher res. Plus, 1080HD isn't stable on my S30... There's still some 'slight' blurring going on and i find it a little distracting, especially when being so used to a CRT.

My mid 2000 entry 27" Sony Wega trinitron using component cables delivers one phenomenal picture....Honestly, i've done comparisons between my 60" 1080p plasma and my CRT and i honestly don't even need 1080HD OR progressivescan. 480i through component cables be it DVD or bluray looks absolutely spectacular on my CRT and it's perfect motion handling, accurate color, fantastic blacks, no ABL, no crazy video noise and NO white clipping make for one enjoyable film experience. The downside is that the screen is tiny, but that's fine. It's perfect for SD(AND HD) content, and that's exactly why i have it in the first place, + for retro gaming purposes. wink.gif

In the end, I'll just have to adjust to the weaker motion handling and agressive ABL of the S60 for Bluray and Wii U content. Probably won't watch too many DVD's on this bad boy, knowing that they'll probably look blown up and soft just as they do on my S30. tongue.gif Anyways! looking forward to the S60 as it's going to be a giant leap over my severely flawed S30, never let an S30 in your home guys, you've been warned! lol
post #3668 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Yup this is was the same advice I gave him over PM . He is comparing his plasma to a CRT and LCD that may not have been calibrated correctly in the first place.

Like you the CRT image is far too green/yellow.

I don't really see red bias on the first picture anyways, it seems more blue to me

Almost exactly what I was going to respond with.

While difficult to assess via pictures due to variables in cameras and monitors, in this instance we have a basis for comparison. To my eyes, the S64 looks more natural in the shot above while the CRT is displaying skin tone/the sky with a yellow/green cast. In addition, the CRT appears oversaturated. (again, comparatively speaking -- the S64 could be undersaturated, but the red coat blazing off the screen of the CRT seems to indicate otherwise)

fibonacci3, unless the CRT has been professionally calibrated, I wouldn't use it as a baseline for comparison of what the S64 is/is not decoding correctly. Still, your preferences are your own, so keep playing with the settings and hopefully you'll be able to land on something you like. Forum members more savvy than I may be able to guide you now that you've provided some context. If you just can't seem to find your ideal, there's nothing wrong with looking into other flat panel options.
post #3669 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

In the end, I'll just have to adjust to the weaker motion handling...

A serious question, but I've seen similar statements crop up again and again. What is the basis for the criticism of the S60/64's motion handling/processing? Is it just based on the C-Net review knocking it for not having a native 24p mode? Lack of frame interpolation options? If that's it, then I can't lie... I've always preferred 60Hz to the 96Hz mode on Panasonics anyway and I find frame interpolation to be... well... eek.gif
post #3670 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

A serious question, but I've seen similar statements crop up again and again. What is the basis for the criticism of the S60/64's motion handling/processing? Is it just based on the C-Net review knocking it for not having a native 24p mode? Lack of frame interpolation options? If that's it, then I can't lie... I've always preferred 60Hz to the 96Hz mode on Panasonics anyway and I find frame interpolation to be... well... eek.gif

Has nothing to do with 24p mode, it's just that you're not getting a stable picture. For ex, if i were to pop in a Wii or PS3 game running in 60 frames per second, lets say a first person 'whatever' and if i were to maneuver the camera in circles at a speedy' rate i'd get slight blurring + dithering, this is the case on my S30, even worse on my X5, but oddly enough my LG beat them both out. I guess they all vary. Yet on a CRT doing the exact same thing? you'd get a stable picture with zero abnormalities, everything is in tact, it's perfection. This ancient Tv tech is still ze' king of motion.cool.giftongue.gif

But i hear the ST60's motion is a bit better than the S60's, but CNET mentioned that the samsung 8500 is the best of the bunch this year.
post #3671 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Yup this is was the same advice I gave him over PM . He is comparing his plasma to a CRT and LCD that may not have been calibrated correctly in the first place.

Like you the CRT image is far too green/yellow.

I don't really see red bias on the first picture anyways, it seems more blue to me

First and foremost I wouldn't compare to a old old CRT...comparing black levels are different especially on a higher end CRT. But your getting into tech that is pretty obsolete these days. Don't get me wrong I've seen some really nice CRT PQ even today. I'm no expert or anything but I've been apart of these rooms for a while now and it has helped distinguish between an accurate picture or a crappy one.

You should be referencing your plasma off of a reference plasma not an older CRT thats possibly not calibrated...and certainly do not compare to LCD which are over saturated most of the time. I personally believe your s64 PQ is more accurate than the CRT which seems to have a serious yellow greenish tinge.

Just my two cents. Again I'm no expert or calibrator just a average guy who knows what's good to look at...thanks to all the cool people at AVS.
post #3672 of 6832
And all this motion talk..I feel alot of people in this thread are very new to plasma and very used to an LCD motion or picture. Just have to give it time...I don't want to say you will get used to your PQ because then it seems like your just settling. But at some point you will notice how much more accurate a plasma picture is and how much better the motion handling is. I was a LCD fanboy for a long time..even when I
Bought my Kuro it had awesome beyond awesome reviews BUT at the store it looked like crap (not knowing DONT EVER compare at store). But I had serious doubts...even when I brought it home I didn't know what all the fuss was about so I popped in Dnice settings and watched a full screen blu ray at the time. Also at the time my dad wasn't happy bout me running slides all day either lol. But I then went back to my LCD popped in similar settings and watches a movie and wanted to thrown the TV down a mountain because I realized how much better this tech was. And for the time being it still is...I don't think ill ever own a LCD I can't stand the picture it looks trashy to me.

Moral of the story...give yourself sometime to adjust. If you force yourself to get "used" to it then you will have buyers remorse. So try to notice the accuracy of a plasma. Some people enjoy the over saturated and brightness of an LCD and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just most of us like a more accurate detailed picture...👍
post #3673 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

i'll finally be getting a 55" Panasonic S60 within the next couple of weeks before BestBuy's sale ends on Sept 19th. But i've got to say, for the most part i'm just not a big horn dog for HD when it comes to film...Call me crazy, but I feel like it just doesn't really add much nor is the difference as mind blowing as people make it out to be Vs watching bluray in 480i via component cables on a good Sony CRT SDTV. Bluray looks clear enough on my CRT, i don't need the higher res.l

Sorry. But you lost me here. smile.gif
post #3674 of 6832
Wow...might try an optometrist.
post #3675 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post

Wow...might try an optometrist.
Post was meant to have waveboys post attached
post #3676 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci3 View Post

I have posted several times about my perceived Red push issue with my 50S64. This shows up as unnatural facial tones, blue skies that have a purplish tone, abnormally dark ocean water, etc.

I have tried most of the settings posted on this forum but have not succeeded in neutralizing the red bias. The best I could do was when I reduced color to 40-44 and increased tint to +9.
However PQ was not good.

What I'd like to be able to do is tweak settings to reduce red push and increase yellow to give a better facial tone. However the only settings in Pro are for R,G.B .............so I don't know how it's possible to increase yellow tone?.

Included here are 2 screen pictures showing the red push on the S64 and the same image on my 27"CRT TV. I like the PQ on my CRT and I'd be happy if I were able to simulate that on the S64
This image is from a Warren Miller ski movie DVD.

. 50S64
CRT TV

Commentary, feedback and tweak suggestions are welcome.
Thanks to all that have replied to me before and those yet to do so.

I agree with the others, in that image the CRT is overly green. the s64 seems fine to me, sky is nice and blue, face tone looks fine. Ignoring the fact that these are photos, I'm thinking you might just be used to a poorly setup tv, and have become accustomed to it.

If you want to add more yellow, youll have to add more green and red (or remove blue) to the image. Also, the colour temperature will add more red the warmer you go, so if you feel the image is too red, try a cooler setting.

Good luck.
post #3677 of 6832
Well when it comes to motion, WaveBoy is right. Play any game with scrolling 2D art, and the image will scroll a lot more smoothly on a CRT with no dithering or blurring (or at least, a very minimal amount). Depending on the plasma, motion can look a little fuzzy due to the dithering that takes place. A good test for this is a game like Rayman Origins with lots of high quality 2D artwork.

Still, it's not that bad on the S60 and is still a lot better than on an LCD. It'll also suffer from phosphor lag if you're sensitive to it, but I sill don't think it's anything compared to the image butchering that happens with LCD motion blur.
post #3678 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post

Wow...might try an optometrist.

My vision is fantastic, i just don't gush over HD like the majority of users here. If you sit far enough the difference between 480 and 1080(plasma vs SDTV) become far less noticeable. Also, the perfect motion resolution of a CRT to me is more important than unstable HD resolution. PQ looks clear enough on my Wega using component cables, it's pretty amazing. wink.gif Don't get me wrong, i only go Blu ray for new releases and i WILL be watching blu ray content only on my S60 along with the Wii U. My 27" Wega is my secondary(Ah who am i kidding, i watch more oldschool horror movies on DVD and retro game it up far more than modern these days) display and it's ace for SD content. I can't stand watching DVD's on my panny S30, the image looks blown up and soft....And the weaker motion handling seems even more obvious aside from the slew of crippling flaws this particular set has to begin with. lolThe S60 looks to complete;y fix every single issue of the S30, except the ABL is a little more agressive, but what the heck. no TV is perfect.
post #3679 of 6832
Ok guys final thoughts cuz I'm about to pull trigger on one of these once I finally know what I can buy.

50ST50 999$...or 60S60 999$ at Amazon. Only considering the 60 cuz it's same price. My other 50 inch would be the 50S64/60(if the 64 isnt aavailble anymore) If the motion on the s64 is better than the st50 I will take that one. But just wondering what the better buy is.
post #3680 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Ok guys final thoughts cuz I'm about to pull trigger on one of these once I finally know what I can buy.

50ST50 999$...or 60S60 999$ at Amazon. Only considering the 60 cuz it's same price. My other 50 inch would be the 50S64/60(if the 64 isnt aavailble anymore) If the motion on the s64 is better than the st50 I will take that one. But just wondering what the better buy is.

Women keep telling me size matters, so when I bought my TV I got the biggest my console would hold. Too bad I asked that question after I bought the TV.
post #3681 of 6832
Does the S60 have THX I know the st50 does not. Freaking lag man I wish the st60 didn't have it that set looks incredible and that lil sync issue though that's still in question if its TV or source related. Watch I will buy the st50 and the st60 will get a lag fix
Edited by SeLfMaDe111985 - 8/30/13 at 8:29am
post #3682 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaTaGuMp View Post

Women keep telling me size matters, so when I bought my TV I got the biggest my console would hold. Too bad I asked that question after I bought the TV.

So your consensus is that the S60 would best the st50 not only in size but performance?
post #3683 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Ok guys final thoughts cuz I'm about to pull trigger on one of these once I finally know what I can buy.

50ST50 999$...or 60S60 999$ at Amazon. Only considering the 60 cuz it's same price. My other 50 inch would be the 50S64/60(if the 64 isnt aavailble anymore) If the motion on the s64 is better than the st50 I will take that one. But just wondering what the better buy is.

The S64 has a nice picture and adequate features. But, size does matter. I hate saying that, but I like the larger size. I don't know if there is enough difference in noticeable PQ between the S and ST to warrant going 10" smaller to get that PQ. I just don't know. I started with the S64 and figured I would see if it was good for me. I was concerned about brightness and anytime viewing. I've had no issues with that, so I'm pretty happy. Note that the S60 doesn't have the AR filter, and I have seen the S and ST next to each other and to me it makes a big difference. the reflections will still be there, but the filter mutes them so that the content can shine through. Reflections on the S are highly reflective. If you control the room lighting you'll be fine, but I don't want to close all my curtains just to watch TV during the daytime.
post #3684 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Ok guys final thoughts cuz I'm about to pull trigger on one of these once I finally know what I can buy.

50ST50 999$...or 60S60 999$ at Amazon. Only considering the 60 cuz it's same price. My other 50 inch would be the 50S64/60(if the 64 isnt aavailble anymore) If the motion on the s64 is better than the st50 I will take that one. But just wondering what the better buy is.

Didn't you already buy a S60-65" ? What happened? When you compare a 50" -60" the 50" will look clearer on cable channels because it's smaller, shows less artifacts. But if you feed both good 1080p sources the 60" would look better and give you a more home theater experience, because of the size also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Does the S60 have THX I know the st50 does not. Freaking lag man I wish the st60 didn't have it that set looks incredible and that lil sync issue though that's still in question if its TV or source related. Watch I will buy the st50 and the st60 will get a lag fix

No it does not have THX. Some have posted in the ST60 with sync issues but I'm pretty sure it is source related. Don't based your decision on what only a few members have experienced. As for lag, where you happy with the S60's input lag?
post #3685 of 6832
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Didn't you already buy a S60-65" ? What happened? When you compare a 50" -60" the 50" will look clearer on cable channels because it's smaller, shows less artifacts. But if you feed both good 1080p sources the 60" would look better and give you a more home theater experience, because of the size also.
No it does not have THX. Some have posted in the ST60 with sync issues but I'm pretty sure it is source related. Don't based your decision on what only a few members have experienced. As for lag, where you happy with the S60's input lag?
no I haven't purchased anything yet...my debate now is the st50 or st60. But im trying to figure out if the lag is worth the price tag and as far as lip sync it definitely seems source issues cause most are seeing a delay during network viewing which the networks have lag too so maybe the st60 processor is pretty powerful and exposing that issue cause
Blu rays don't seem to bê the issue. s60 is just too reflective and the s64 just doesn't seem to be all I need. So I apologize I'm going to love this question to the proper thread.
post #3686 of 6832
There has to be some reason the ST60 is the best TV cnet has ever tested, FOR NOW. biggrin.gif
post #3687 of 6832
I'm pretty happy with the S60's input lag. No, Mega Man and Mario won't jump with pinpoint accuracy like they do on the NES/CRT, but for almost any other gaming application I've found it more than adequate. Then again, I'm also coming from a TV that had higher input lag, so it's a definite improvement for me.

Currently playing Just Cause 2, which obviously doesn't really rely heavily on precise input, but it feels great. The only thing I have to adjust to really is phosphor lag, which is pretty apparent in the game when the sun is setting and the lighting is very harsh. I'm pretty confident though that it will improve over time, as I've already noticed a dramatic improvement when it comes to any flashing/rainbowing I noticed out of the box.
post #3688 of 6832
He said "I DECIDED to pull the trigger". I guess thats different from " I JUST pulled the trigger".
post #3689 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

The S64 has a nice picture and adequate features. But, size does matter. I hate saying that, but I like the larger size. I don't know if there is enough difference in noticeable PQ between the S and ST to warrant going 10" smaller to get that PQ. I just don't know. I started with the S64 and figured I would see if it was good for me. I was concerned about brightness and anytime viewing. I've had no issues with that, so I'm pretty happy. Note that the S60 doesn't have the AR filter, and I have seen the S and ST next to each other and to me it makes a big difference. the reflections will still be there, but the filter mutes them so that the content can shine through. Reflections on the S are highly reflective. If you control the room lighting you'll be fine, but I don't want to close all my curtains just to watch TV during the daytime.

Problem is that it's going in my room now that's why I had to back track my 65" inch decision which i was ready to buy I had it in a cart and everything but I still live home unfortunately right now cuz of nursing school so I can't put it downstairs. His house his rules. (Mil rules all though lol as usual). So I'm limited to 50-55 inch. 50 would suit my room better but with 55 you only need about 8-10 feet and my room is suitable for that as well. So it's not size anymore it's more about for 999$ I want to get the best for gaming and movies. And eventually the Xbox one and/or ps4 will be in my home as well as getting another cable box for this TV. So it's go with st60 which is obviously superior in every way over the st50 except lag.
post #3690 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

N
no I haven't purchased anything yet...my debate now is the st50 or st60. But im trying to figure out if the lag is worth the price tag and as far as lip sync it definitely seems source issues cause most are seeing a delay during network viewing which the networks have lag too so maybe the st60 processor is pretty powerful and exposing that issue cause
Blu rays don't seem to bê the issue. s60 is just too reflective and the s64 just doesn't seem to be all I need. So I apologize I'm going to love this question to the proper thread.

I would buy the ST60 where they have the ST50 as well and if you are not happy with the input lag ( I know you will be happy with the picture) you can return it for the ST50. One question though, is the ST50 new? I wouldn't buy anything refurbished.
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