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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 138

post #4111 of 6832
If you are going to use black extention which is not recommended you will need to raise your brightness oontrol or you will definitely crush blacks.
post #4112 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00390GFJS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are 6500k and work very well.

Are there any recommended kits for a 65" TV? It doesn't look like this particular seller makes one for that size.
post #4113 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodis View Post

Are there any recommended kits for a 65" TV? It doesn't look like this particular seller makes one for that size.
http://inspiredled.com

You can order any size you want direct or order 2 sets from Amazon.
post #4114 of 6832
any one here measured mll on the 50" S60? and does it float at all based on the APL of the test pattern used?
post #4115 of 6832
PlasmaPZ80u my guess is no based on other Panasonic plasma performance, the panel driving method is consistent across models, see Zoyd's analysis in my sig
post #4116 of 6832
Sorry for doubling up a post in another thread. I must admit that the rainbowing/flashing I've experienced is still present (though not as offensive as it was out of the box).

Is there any way of aging the phosphors more quickly without harming the TV? Is ther any danger in running slides on panel brightness High? I'm very convinced that what I'm seeing is phosphor trailing from eye panning, and I'm fairly convinced this will die down a lot with age. I'm at almost 300 hours with my set btw.
post #4117 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Is there any danger in running slides on panel brightness High?
No
post #4118 of 6832
think so, because of the better panel but the 50" S60 would sure look nice in a bedroom. nxuM
post #4119 of 6832
I've tried searching this, and from what I've found turning Pixel Orbiter off is a good idea... But, and i'm sure you all know where i'm going with this, the only options are auto and on. so, is "auto" the same as turning it off? Thanks.
post #4120 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by joegator81 View Post

I've tried searching this, and from what I've found turning Pixel Orbiter off is a good idea... But, and i'm sure you all know where i'm going with this, the only options are auto and on. so, is "auto" the same as turning it off? Thanks.
Yes
post #4121 of 6832
much appreciated. thanks.
post #4122 of 6832
I stopped at Best Buy and looked at their S60. Darted my eyes all around and saw no rainbowing of any kind.

I assume this because the phosphors have broken in way more than what's on my set. I'm wondering though - How many hours should I have on the panel if I decide to have someone from Panasonic come take a look at it? It's at about 300 hours right now. Mostly slide hours (which is nothing compared to the 2000+ hours the TV likely has on it at the store). I know the store isn't the ideal place to check this out because of all the ambient light, but I was definitely not seeing any of the effects I see at home (even during the daytime).
post #4123 of 6832
I don't know if it will be very noticeable in the showroom. It's most prominent when there light content is shown against a dark background. And I think it's just something you'll see on the plasma TVs. I don't know if aging the phosphors does anything. Maybe you're sitting too close and darting your eyes around to see the content, I don't know. I see it on my S64 if I dart my eyes around, but I don't do that often.
post #4124 of 6832
I think part of it is that I'm very left eye dominant, so my right eye sometimes picks up some of those effects.

I do think aging the TV should help though. The rainbowing seems to be a form of phosphor lag picked up by eye movement. It's less of a rainbowing really and more of a yellow green flashing. I've heard many people say that normal phosphor lag diminishes greatly over time, so I think I'll wait til I have closer to 500 hours on the panel before I decide if any action needs to be taken on my part. Otherwise the rest of the TV is so great, this isn't an issue that would make me want to return it, so I'll just deal with the TV if it had any minor annoyances.
post #4125 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00390GFJS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are 6500k and work very well.
off-topic
On a whim I threw some LED string of Christmas lights (warm colored but not quit incandescent warm) behind my 58" plasma and no one liked it. Maybe it was too much light? Or not the right color temp?
The pics on the Amazon page are close to what my christmas lights looked like in brightness, and it surprises me people are making it that bright.
post #4126 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

off-topic
On a whim I threw some LED string of Christmas lights (warm colored but not quit incandescent warm) behind my 58" plasma and no one liked it. Maybe it was too much light? Or not the right color temp?
The pics on the Amazon page are close to what my christmas lights looked like in brightness, and it surprises me people are making it that bright.
Im hoping you are just joking about this comparison.
post #4127 of 6832
if you want a cheap DIY bias lighting solution consider a clip on desk lamp (mine is all-metal which keeps the clip from eventually cracking) and put a 6500K bulb in it with the highest CRI (color rendering index) you can find... I choose a CFL type bulb with about 13W power consumption (dim but good enough for nightime viewing without eyestrain and really helpful for long gaming sessions too)

post #4128 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00390GFJS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are 6500k and work very well.
off-topic
On a whim I threw some LED string of Christmas lights (warm colored but not quit incandescent warm) behind my 58" plasma and no one liked it. Maybe it was too much light? Or not the right color temp?
The pics on the Amazon page are close to what my christmas lights looked like in brightness, and it surprises me people are making it that bright.
The standard for brightness using a back light is 10% or less of the general image brightness of the display. When in doubt, dimmer is probably better.

Any deviation from 6500K will effect the colors that you see on screen. I'm not aware of any LED lights that are certified to produce 6500k, but I haven't been keeping up with back light technology. Even the paint on the wall can throw off the effects of back lighting.

This site explains back lighting and sells high quality products.

Ideal-Lume Bias Lighting
post #4129 of 6832
I've read people say that phosphor trailing tends to improve over time. Does anyone know how many hours something like that normally takes?
post #4130 of 6832
will any of the S60 sizes currently in production (such as 50") remain available early next-year (at least until the 2014 replacement for the S60 is released)?

how long was the U50 (which I believe was the 2012 equivalent of the S60) available in 2013 before the S60 was released? (again in sizes like 50")
post #4131 of 6832
^^

I'm asking because reading about Panasonic's uncertain future for plasma in 2014 is making me a bit nervous since I know I want either a 42" (2014 of course since the 2013 version is gone) or 50" 1080p Panasonic plasma (2013 or 2014 based on price and availability) before they're gone for good and preferably around the $650 price point the 50" S60 is at now.
post #4132 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by xx2000xx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

What's light bias? Back-lighting?

Yeah. There are so many threads about it on AVS and it does make a difference.

Watching TV in the dark can eliminate screen reflections, but typically causes eyestrain and viewing fatigue.

I rarely watch in total darkness, so it's not something I'll worry about. Thank the plasma gods. I've seen those Christmas lighting pictures, etc. and your whole spiel (that I edited out) about getting the lighting to stay and the following debate about the correct lighting color... I'm just glad I haven't experienced buzzing, light bleeding, or any other defects. The only negative things I've experienced about the 65S64 (being my first plasma/flat screen) are an occurrence of posterization and occasional motion blurring with football. I have OCD (I prefer to call myself a perfectionist) and would go crazy if I experienced all the nitpicks other people have. I think it was in this thread that someone mentioned hearing buzzing over audio on bright screens in Survivor. I watched half of the first Survivor episode on my DVR a couple of nights ago and I didn't notice any buzzing while the scenery and color was incredibly vibrant. That show really shows off what this set can do.
post #4133 of 6832
Well, I pulled the trigger...

First I ordered a Panasonic 60" DT60 from Amazon. My first point of disappointment came from the bezel. The design is different from the 55" version and it includes an excessive, plastic, black strip around the perimeter of the screen creating a much more substantial looking television than I had anticipated. There was also a pronounced vertical band on the right side of the screen that was visible on any light background and some major flashlighting in the lower-left corner that killed dark scenes/letterboxes -- even when the lights were on. Colors and motion, however, were brilliant. To reiterate, I was floored by what Panasonic was able to achieve with motion on an LCD. The technology has truly come a long way and I had absolutely zero complaints with what I observed in that respect after disabling the interpolation option. The dimming system showed the occasional hiccup, (by which I mean there was one scene in Tron Legacy where I was able to trigger it but did not notice the effects at any other point) but overall it actually did a decent job of creating a sense of depth without crushing detail. (when other settings were tweaked properly) It was really a no-go from the start with the bezel design being what it is, but unless the 55" performs significantly differently then the CNET review is laughably inaccurate. (not that anyone should ever trust their opinion without heavy skepticism -- ever) To Amazon's credit, they've been extremely understanding thus far and have made the situation as painless as possible, so they'll definitely be keeping me as a customer moving forward.

I then went with what I had originally been surprisingly impressed by in the showroom: the Panasonic 58" E60. When they first hit the wall at the brick and mortars, I put them and nearly every other panel on display through their paces and had rated it a personal favorite. Sure enough, the reviews have all been positive, so I figured why not go with my first instinct to take the plunge on my first large-screen LCD? Well, on the very first setup screen when I first powered it on I immediately noticed several vertical "streaks" in the center portion of the screen. A few seconds later, two dead pixels came into view. Mind you, I was in no way scrutinizing the screen to see these flaws. I was sitting 9 feet away on my couch and, again, this was visible on the very first screen from the initial power up. I decided to test it out on some real world content just to make sure that they weren't deal breaking, but the dead pixels could be seen on a consistent basis and, even after dialing down the backlight to a comfortable 30 in Cinema and Custom, the streaks were visible on most lightly-colored content. Color accuracy looked very good out of the box, but with both interpolation turned off and on the weak setting it was apparent that motion handling was extremely poor compared to the DT60. HD OTA television blurred and/or juttered (really distracting when people were moving their arms for some reason) often with motion and there was a very plastic look to faces on every channel. It also did woefully poor with standard definition cable making everything appear as flat blobs of color. Blu Rays looked quite a bit better and showed decent depth and dimensionality, but again the motion wasn't nearly as well-handled as it was on the DT60. As has been reported by several outlets, black levels are very good for an LCD. With any ambient lighting the blacks appeared black-hole black... very nice indeed. The screen does not, however, handle direct light well in my opinion as it not only reflects but also disperses it through a larger area than it should making it much more distracting than any glass screen than I've ever viewed. (and again, it was much worse than the DT60 in this regard) These blacks, however, were also marred by an obscene amount of smearing/blurring of shadow detail. When paused or during a stagnant scene the level of detail is fine, but as soon as there's any motion it smears so much and is so obnoxiously distracting that I don't know how anyone could award it any points for its handling of dark content. It may have had a slight edge on the DT60 in terms of the outright amount of detail it was able to derive, but that television didn't evince a similar effect in the slightest. I would rather give up a minute detail here and there that I wouldn't have particularly cared to see anyway as opposed to the way that the E60 takes you out of a scene completely with the technology employed. Test scenes from Game of Thrones were destroyed by this and The Dark Knight Rises was rendered unwatchable... and not because of its subpar-to-franchise-standard plot. wink.gif

It has again been my experience that CNET's television reviews provide little to no value when making a purchasing decision. If my Pioneer 101FD was five stars, then the DT60 earns a solid three (three and a half without the flashlighting/banding) while the E60 gets two. (one for color handling and one for depth of black... although that black level doesn't matter much if it's just leading to constant blurring/smearing anyway)

I went back to the store today with the E60 with the intention of purchasing a Sony W802. I figured that I would give another manufacturer with a solid LCD motion processing pedigree a shot and it also included an IPS panel which seemed to go a long way in providing a "clean" look to the DT60's motion and dark content handling. However, they happened to have a 65" S60 available that's usually special order. (cancelled by the original buyer) Since I had been heavily considering this television in the past and I was able to get a 65" S60 with a 5 year warranty for less than the 55" Sony with no extended warranty, I took the plunge. Perhaps all of the aforementioned was the universe's way of telling me that I'll always be a plasma guy.

The S60 is being delivered this afternoon. (another incentive... no waiting) I intend to tweak the settings to my liking straight out of the box and then watch whatever the heck I want; no break in process. I'll be watching tonight's UFC fight card and football all day tomorrow. I will not be scrutinizing the screen on colored slides or anything and looking for image retention. Since the whole point of making a switch to LCD was to have a television that I could treat like a television instead of a persistent headache, I plan to do just that with this plasma and will not go looking for flaws. If it can't keep up with the pace I set, then I'll take necessary action. I will also not be looking through this thread for reported faults, but if there's interest I will give periodic updates on my experience. (for a while... if I'm happy with this television then I'll likely be at least semi-retiring from AVS)

If you've read this far, thank you for doing so and please feel free to ask questions. I'll respond to the best of my ability -- pending you're not asking me to scrutinize and/or deviate from my normal viewing routine.
post #4134 of 6832
Good for you Curly, that's what our sets are for, to enjoy them. If you are not extremely happy with settings out of the box, there are some that have posted custom settings on this thread. Oh by the way UFC should be fun to watch, Jones will be victorious in my opinion. wink.gif
post #4135 of 6832
Curly, this is what cnet says about the 60dt60: "The DT60 is a case of "better, but not nearly good enough," and until proven otherwise, we'll continue to strongly recommend Panasonic's plasmas and just as strongly tell you to avoid its LED LCDs." I think cnet is an excellent resource and agree with its high evaluation of Panny plasmas.
post #4136 of 6832
Well, the guys came and went. Powered on the TV and immediately put it into default Cinema mode. (will be tweaking) First impression: smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Good for you Curly, that's what our sets are for, to enjoy them. If you are not extremely happy with settings out of the box, there are some that have posted custom settings on this thread. Oh by the way UFC should be fun to watch, Jones will be victorious in my opinion. wink.gif

Jones by domination, (although, it would be cool to see Gusto shake up LHW) but I'm more looking forward to Barao/Wineland and Healy/Nurmagomedov. cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Curly, this is what cnet says about the 60dt60: "The DT60 is a case of "better, but not nearly good enough," and until proven otherwise, we'll continue to strongly recommend Panasonic's plasmas and just as strongly tell you to avoid its LED LCDs." I think cnet is an excellent resource and agree with its high evaluation of Panny plasmas.

I'm well aware of what's stated in the review and I don't disagree with their valuation of Panasonic's plasmas. Still, considering that I do read all of CNET's reviews I think that I'm not incorrect in saying that they downplay the advantages of LCD technology just as much as they do with the shortcomings of plasma tech. (save for LCD flagships and other occasional exceptions like the E60) In addition, their reported measurements are often void and/or laden with discrepancy. For instance, in their DT60 review they report the MLL based on ANSI contrast whereas in their Sony W802 review they report the full-field black measurement -- and the reviews are authored by the same writer.

I don't think that CNET is without value, but they absolutely cary too much influence in the buying public's mind.

Edit: Default Cinema is friggin` bright! I thought that I had read some user impressions calling it dim/dull, but with the blinds thrown open and a table lamp facing it I think it has plenty of headroom with light output. In addition, reflections are there but not at all distracting. (unlike the E60)
Edited by curly21029 - 9/21/13 at 3:35pm
post #4137 of 6832
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Still, considering that I do read all of CNET's reviews I think that I'm not incorrect in saying that they downplay the advantages of LCD technology just as much as they do with the shortcomings of plasma tech. (save for LCD flagships and other occasional exceptions like the E60) In addition, their reported measurements are often void and/or laden with discrepancy. For instance, in their DT60 review they report the MLL based on ANSI contrast whereas in their Sony W802 review they report the full-field black measurement -- and the reviews are authored by the same writer.

I don't think that CNET is without value, but they absolutely cary too much influence in the buying public's mind.

You can trust Consumer Reports to be unbiased if they are knowledgeable enough about the technology. But even CR rates plasmas as very good to excellent - I don't think I saw any ratings as just good or bad (whatever is below good - just one dot). Other sources do not want to offend advertisers and often downplay negatives. Back in the day, Stereo Review reviews used to sound like advertisements for whatever they were reviewing.
post #4138 of 6832
Recent lightning damage to my TV (6yr old 50" Panasonic plasma) has me thinking about a new one. Where are the best places to look these days? I got my last one at Fry's for the then excellent price of $1,299. I'm hoping to do a little better this time around - looking for a reasonably priced 60" Panasonic plasma. Probably should research for a while and pull the trigger in the Black Friday sales, right? BB and Fry's the main bricks n mortar alternatives still? Sears? Walmart? Costco? Or just go straight online - Newegg?
post #4139 of 6832
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jontyrees View Post

Recent lightning damage to my TV (6yr old 50" Panasonic plasma) has me thinking about a new one. Where are the best places to look these days? I got my last one at Fry's for the then excellent price of $1,299. I'm hoping to do a little better this time around - looking for a reasonably priced 60" Panasonic plasma. Probably should research for a while and pull the trigger in the Black Friday sales, right? BB and Fry's the main bricks n mortar alternatives still? Sears? Walmart? Costco? Or just go straight online - Newegg?

Amazon.

If you want a 60" Panny under your budget then the only option is the S60 series. It will run rings around your old Panny in every picture quality category. The only downside to it is it does not have an Anti-Reflective Filter and is much more reflective, but it would only really be a problem if watching dark content in a bright environment (dark areas of the screen become like a dark mirror), otherwise it's pretty bright and can punch through ambient room light pretty well when watching brighter content like sports etc.

The next higher up model is the ST60 (better panel, better PQ, and it has an AR Filter) but it's a few hundred over your budget.
post #4140 of 6832
Looks like Amazon doesn't have any in stock...quoting a 21 Oct estimated delivery date for me. Anyone know of an online retailer that has any of the 60" S60's in stock that will price match Amazon?
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