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Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 150

post #4471 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlVlv View Post

It's about not losing picture quality.  Sometimes, if you are too close, and depending on your source materiel, you might have a less than great picture I believe.

Agreed. For everyone, there is a sweet spot of maximum detail with minimum artifacts.
post #4472 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

Honestly, I'd use the simple solution. Sticky Tack.

I used Black tape and glided it across the back of my Wii U sensor bar, works like a charm. Either way should do it!
post #4473 of 6830
I'm going to jump in on this thread since it appears to get quite a bit of traffic. I have just acquired a 50" S64 and I'm loving it so far, needs some more time but so far so good. What I have been looking for is a guide that explains most or all of the pro setings, ie, luminance, high and low RGB, W/B, etc. I have been adjusting sets as far as I can remember and can achieve a very good pic, but this being my first plasma there is definitely a learning curve.

From where I'm at, I simply want to reduce the slight green hue on flesh, almost like a fluorescent effect with cameras and very slight red reduction. Just lowering the green and red saturation is not the way and it seems even the W/B settings can change these settings. What I would like to accomplish is to learn how each setting changes what color and how much, I have searched but have not found an article on this.....if I missed it then forgive me.

I am currently using Fairchild's settings but slightly tweaked, I have the AGC on 5 and the black extension on 1, and it really brings the set to life...gives the white some "pop" and with these settings it doesn't appear dim at all, only slightly but much closer to my CRT. This may keep me from achieving my desired pic so if this is a wrong setting to use please let me know. Many settings affect other settings and this is what I want to learn.

While only having 20 hours on it I'm sure there will be more changes but for now if I can make the gren and red adjustments I may have it where I want it.
post #4474 of 6830
You really need to first calibrate the White balance/greyscale before you attempt the color detail adjustments.
post #4475 of 6830
I have an older Avia disc but I'm assuming there are better setup discs. Should I use a Blu-Ray player for this setup or can I use a SD player?
post #4476 of 6830
I can get the 55 Inch for under 700 as a basement TV, what's the overall feel? Good - Great TV? is this good for gaming? is it dark?
post #4477 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

As someone coming from a professionally calibrated Kuro, I detect nothing blatantly wrong with my S60's out-of-the-box Cinema white point. Perhaps your particular panel exhibits a different behavior, but I would recommend that you discontinue making direct comparisons with your old CRT regardless as there is a greater chance of it being further from accurate than the S60. Adding excess blue to whites does not make them "whiter" -- just bluer. Still, it's your TV and you're free to adjust to your preferences.

What about Custom's out of the box white point? Perhaps you're right though, maybe my CRT is a bit on the cooler side, i keep acting as if it's the definitive set to go by. It does seem to generate an odd blueish tint with the blacks at times, hell I'm not even sure.

With Panel Brightness set to medium and gamma to 2.4 should brightness really be at 50? I've seen a few people on here dip it down to 48. anyways, dropping the Comparison's with my other CRT, sorry about that! :P
post #4478 of 6830
A question for S60/S64 owners: (65" models in particular; please state your panel size if you respond) do you have any vertical lines/banding a few inches from the right side of your screen? I have two. They appear infrequently, (light to moderately light, solidly-colored backgrounds... think the closing scenes of commercials) but I've noticed them after the first week and do find my eyes drifting to that area during content that I think it may appear on. I've tried to ignore them, but have done so actively rather than passively meaning that they are at least somewhat irksome. They're reproducible on all white/gray/green slides.

This is an issue that has been reported since the 30 series, (possibly even before that) but thought that it was tied to the application of the AR filter and didn't see many reports this year. (none on this model in particular) Instead, I'm thinking that it has something to do with the black filter or possibly the glass. I've seen reports from others stating that they've had their televisions/panels replaced and have gotten a clean one, but I've also read of others cycling through numerous replacements only to receive something similar or worse every time. I don't want to get caught up in a "lottery," but I am considering giving Panasonic a call...

*This is the only complaint that I have about this television so far as part of my decision to go with the S60 was that it would be free from DSE and other uniformity issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

What about Custom's out of the box white point? Perhaps you're right though, maybe my CRT is a bit on the cooler side, i keep acting as if it's the definitive set to go by. It does seem to generate an odd blueish tint with the blacks at times, hell I'm not even sure.

With Panel Brightness set to medium and gamma to 2.4 should brightness really be at 50? I've seen a few people on here dip it down to 48. anyways, dropping the Comparison's with my other CRT, sorry about that! :P

No apologies are necessary. smile.gif

I have no idea how Custom performs. Honestly, I've been so pleased with the Cinema profile that I haven't viewed any others.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the contrast (light output) setting and not brightness (black depth) since the latter should be set to our around 0. I have no idea what the recommended settings for Custom are, but again you're welcome to adjust to taste. I'm still running on panel brightness low at the stock 85 contrast setting (Cinema) and have no complaints -- even with the blinds open during the day.
post #4479 of 6830
regarding sharpness, I've read that high contrast displays will appear sharper than those with less contrast and I think this is true since my 50" S60 looks sharper with most high-quality sources (Netflix Super HD Streaming, BD movies, and HD console games) than my 46" Samsung LED-LCD from the same viewing distances

also, as far as the optimal viewing distance for a given screen size, it has to do a lot with the source material... low res and/or more compressed content requires a farther distance to look good whereas high res and/or less compressed content lets you sit closer and still get a good picture
post #4480 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

I unfortunately do notice a slight amount of banding that I never noticed on the ST50 (which has double the gradation steps). So far, that's been the only inferiority I've observed so far as PQ is concerned (though maybe motion handling on the ST50 was also a little better). I do miss the feature of being able to save settings as default, which doesn't appear to be an option on the S60. I also think the sound quality on the ST50 was a little better, but that's no biggie.

I don't know about the ST50; I was comparing the S60 to the ST60. It is nice, however, that you find the S60 to be on par/better overall than the ST50 given that the S series is entry level and the ST series is mid level. It shows progress from 2012 to 2013 in PDP technology. Too bad, there may not be a 2014 lineup and if there is, we won't see any real PQ improvements.
post #4481 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

regarding sharpness, I've read that high contrast displays will appear sharper than those with less contrast and I think this is true since my 50" S60 looks sharper with most high-quality sources (Netflix Super HD Streaming, BD movies, and HD console games) than my 46" Samsung LED-LCD from the same viewing distances

also, as far as the optimal viewing distance for a given screen size, it has to do a lot with the source material... low res and/or more compressed content requires a farther distance to look good whereas high res and/or less compressed content lets you sit closer and still get a good picture

I don't even consider content with lower resolution than than 1080i for viewing distance. I understand that the large size of my 65" will expose deficiencies in sub par content more than a smaller screen.
post #4482 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I don't know about the ST50; I was comparing the S60 to the ST60. It is nice, however, that you find the S60 to be on par/better overall than the ST50 given that the S series is entry level and the ST series is mid level. It shows progress from 2012 to 2013 in PDP technology. Too bad, there may not be a 2014 lineup and if there is, we won't see any real PQ improvements.

The biggest disappointment I have with the S60 is the visible banding, which I suspect may be due to the limited steps of gradation and/or inferior video processing. I at least didn't notice any banding on the ST50, but then again the banding is visible mostly in dim or darker scenes (or dimmer parts of the image), which is precisely the kind of detail that an A/R filter obscures somewhat.
post #4483 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by i6pwr View Post


I am currently using Fairchild's settings but slightly tweaked, I have the AGC on 5 and the black extension on 1, and it really brings the set to life...gives the white some "pop" and with these settings it doesn't appear dim at all, only slightly but much closer to my CRT. This may keep me from achieving my desired pic so if this is a wrong setting to use please let me know. Many settings affect other settings and this is what I want to learn.

While only having 20 hours on it I'm sure there will be more changes but for now if I can make the gren and red adjustments I may have it where I want it.

AGC and Black Extension should both be set to 0. Wait until your set is at 200-300 hours and you will definitely see "pop" with the recommended settings.
post #4484 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

The biggest disappointment I have with the S60 is the visible banding, which I suspect may be due to the limited steps of gradation and/or inferior video processing. I at least didn't notice any banding on the ST50, but then again the banding is visible mostly in dim or darker scenes (or dimmer parts of the image), which is precisely the kind of detail that an A/R filter obscures somewhat.

Inferior video processing is what makes this set for me, I love playing games and I just couldn't do it on the st series because of its "superior processing".

The set I tried before I got this one had a processing delay slightly lower that the st60, and it drove me crazy. Using it as a PC monitor was hopeless, you could feel the mouse lagging behind. Not sure how much worse the st series would feel but I just couldn't live with it.

So there are up sides smile.gif
post #4485 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

The biggest disappointment I have with the S60 is the visible banding, which I suspect may be due to the limited steps of gradation and/or inferior video processing. I at least didn't notice any banding on the ST50, but then again the banding is visible mostly in dim or darker scenes (or dimmer parts of the image), which is precisely the kind of detail that an A/R filter obscures somewhat.


Color banding is usually due to compression, not the TV. You can reduce it by calibrating your set properly.

If you see it on Blu-Ray, we have a problem Houston. biggrin.gif



Ian
post #4486 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Color banding is usually due to compression, not the TV. You can reduce it by calibrating your set properly.

If you see it on Blu-Ray, we have a problem Houston. biggrin.gif

You may right, but how can I tell? I do have my set fairly well calibrated.
post #4487 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

You may right, but how can I tell? I do have my set fairly well calibrated.

It is either calibrated or it is not, there is no middle ground smile.gif

A set that deviates from the standard, is not standard.
post #4488 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

You may right, but how can I tell? I do have my set fairly well calibrated.


Have you used a disc like the one offered by Spears and Munsil? The color gamut on the S60 is very good and properly tweaking your settings (using the cinema mode only) should keep it on par with even the best TV's.


Ian
post #4489 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Have you used a disc like the one offered by Spears and Munsil? The color gamut on the S60 is very good and properly tweaking your settings (using the cinema mode only) should keep it on par with even the best TV's.

I have several test patterns on one of my BBC-Earth Blu-ray discs that I use. Not ideal, but seems to work good, especially for greyscale (which is the hardest to do). I have had a prior set professionally calibrated twice (Sony XBR960 CRT), so I know the difference between a properly and improperly calibrated set. I have not gotten the S&M disc, though eventually I plan to.
post #4490 of 6830
I cant seem to quote on this phone but I will give it some time and report back. One thing I did notice the other night was quick hand movements on Conan during his monologue rendered the hands a deep red when in motion, then back to flesh--colored at rest. What wpuld cause this?
post #4491 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by i6pwr View Post

I cant seem to quote on this phone but I will give it some time and report back. One thing I did notice the other night was quick hand movements on Conan during his monologue rendered the hands a deep red when in motion, then back to flesh--colored at rest. What wpuld cause this?

Sounds like the rainbow effect, and you, like me, are one of the unlucky ones who notice it. It's more a fleeting after-image than the object itself changing colors. Try pausing the scene and moving your eyes around. You may be able to reproduce it at will. Now unpause the scene and follow his hands with your eyes. You may find you don't see it unless you move your eyes onto something else. That's the way it works for me. Basically anything with red in it can cause this in high contrast scenes. This includes flesh tones and whites, and hand movements near the bottom of the screen against dark clothing is a frequent offender. Other good examples include just about all of Sin City and the opening credits of Alien as the title is slowly spelled out. You may eventually train yourself not to notice it so much, but I'm not sure it ever gets better simply with panel aging, as some seem to believe. You can mitigate it by changing the color temp to cool and dialing down the contrast to make the picture really dim, but then you've sacrificed all the PQ. There's nothing else you can do but try not to move your eyes around so much and to blink when you do.
post #4492 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

I have several test patterns on one of my BBC-Earth Blu-ray discs that I use. Not ideal, but seems to work good, especially for greyscale (which is the hardest to do). I have had a prior set professionally calibrated twice (Sony XBR960 CRT), so I know the difference between a properly and improperly calibrated set. I have not gotten the S&M disc, though eventually I plan to.

As the phosphors age and settle down you will probably notice a reduction in digital anomalies. Once the set has aged a bit, the disc should help, since you will probably need to do some tweaks.


Ian
post #4493 of 6830
Hey guys, deciding between this and the ST60. How bad is the reflection on these units? Is it really that bad where paying an extra $300-$400 is worth it?
post #4494 of 6830
Well, I just pulled the trigger on the S60 60" inch. Think I got a fair price at Amazon. They've sold 3 units in the last few hours and I think I know why. AP reported that Panasonic is going to scrap their plasma line next fiscal year. (whenever that is) So say goodbye to the best plasma folks.. Panny is out of the game for some stupid reason.

Should be a great shock coming from my Pan 42".. can't wait. eek.gif

04rex.. it's like mirror in the day. So be prepared.
post #4495 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Hey guys, deciding between this and the ST60. How bad is the reflection on these units? Is it really that bad where paying an extra $300-$400 is worth it?

In my opinion, no. It does depend on the room lighting though.
post #4496 of 6830
Since my bedroom plasma TV just died, I also am trying to decide between the 60ST60 and 60S60. There is very little outside light, even in the daytime, so I am able to eliminate almost all ambient light in the room, so reflections are not a concern at all.

My initial thought was to go with the S60, since I don't need an AR filter, but the reports in this thread of "dirty" whites, and the picture being a bit "flat" have given me pause. I have also read about banding issues. The Toshiba plasma that died did produce the bright, contrasty picture that I like, so I would not like a new set that seems "flat" in comparison. If I could be convinced that the S60's whites would be bright enough for me in this dark bedroom, I would most likely go that route.

So, I also began considering the ST60 mainly for its brighter whites, so as to be able to achieve a picture with more "pop". Yes, I understand that may not be the most accurate image. No video games will be played on this TV, so lag, as I understand it, should not be an issue. All we watch is cable HD programming and Blu-ray discs.

So, my question is, how much difference in the brightness or "pop" of the picture is there between the S60 and the ST60? Given these considerations, what would you do? The additional cost of the ST60 is not a deal breaker for me.
post #4497 of 6830
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Since my bedroom plasma TV just died, I also am trying to decide between the 60ST60 and 60S60. There is very little outside light, even in the daytime, so I am able to eliminate almost all ambient light in the room, so reflections are not a concern at all.

My initial thought was to go with the S60, since I don't need an AR filter, but the reports in this thread of "dirty" whites, and the picture being a bit "flat" have given me pause. I have also read about banding issues. The Toshiba plasma that died did produce the bright, contrasty picture that I like, so I would not like a new set that seems "flat" in comparison. If I could be convinced that the S60's whites would be bright enough for me in this dark bedroom, I would most likely go that route.

So, I also began considering the ST60 mainly for its brighter whites, so as to be able to achieve a picture with more "pop". Yes, I understand that may not be the most accurate image. No video games will be played on this TV, so lag, as I understand it, should not be an issue. All we watch is cable HD programming and Blu-ray discs.

So, my question is, how much difference in the brightness or "pop" of the picture is there between the S60 and the ST60? Given these considerations, what would you do? The additional cost of the ST60 is not a deal breaker for me.

I've compared the S60 to the ST60 at a bright store and also at a dim store. The ST60 has a better panel, it is brighter, blacker, has better contrast, and has more pop. The only real reason to choose an S60 over an ST60 is to save money, but you end up with a lesser TV.

Shennaniganz(?) created a thread comparing the ST60 to the S64 (AR version of the S60) and it's usually floating around the first or second page of this forum.
post #4498 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Since my bedroom plasma TV just died, I also am trying to decide between the 60ST60 and 60S60. There is very little outside light, even in the daytime, so I am able to eliminate almost all ambient light in the room, so reflections are not a concern at all.

My initial thought was to go with the S60, since I don't need an AR filter, but the reports in this thread of "dirty" whites, and the picture being a bit "flat" have given me pause. I have also read about banding issues. The Toshiba plasma that died did produce the bright, contrasty picture that I like, so I would not like a new set that seems "flat" in comparison. If I could be convinced that the S60's whites would be bright enough for me in this dark bedroom, I would most likely go that route.

So, I also began considering the ST60 mainly for its brighter whites, so as to be able to achieve a picture with more "pop". Yes, I understand that may not be the most accurate image. No video games will be played on this TV, so lag, as I understand it, should not be an issue. All we watch is cable HD programming and Blu-ray discs.

So, my question is, how much difference in the brightness or "pop" of the picture is there between the S60 and the ST60? Given these considerations, what would you do? The additional cost of the ST60 is not a deal breaker for me.

If cost is not a significant issue and you don't mind an A/R coating (despite it appears you not really needing it), then I'd go with the ST60.
post #4499 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I've compared the S60 to the ST60 at a bright store and also at a dim store. The ST60 has a better panel, it is brighter, blacker, has better contrast, and has more pop. The only real reason to choose an S60 over an ST60 is to save money, but you end up with a lesser TV.

Shennaniganz(?) created a thread comparing the ST60 to the S64 (AR version of the S60) and it's usually floating around the first or second page of this forum.

Thanks for that comparison! Yeah, I read that thread, but I still find myself seeking more input and experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

If cost is not a significant issue and you don't mind an A/R coating (despite it appears you not really needing it), then I'd go with the ST60.

Well, that is the question. I'm not sure what, if any, effect the A/R coating might have on image clarity, and I don't think the Best Buy here even has the ST60 on display. I have owned the Toshiba 50" as well as a Panasonic 42" plasma, neither of which has a coating. It seems to me that such a coating would, at least to some effect, diminish the clarity of the image. But, if not, I may go with the ST60 because of the better image dynamics.
post #4500 of 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Well, that is the question. I'm not sure what, if any, effect the A/R coating might have on image clarity, and I don't think the Best Buy here even has the ST60 on display. I have owned the Toshiba 50" as well as a Panasonic 42" plasma, neither of which has a coating. It seems to me that such a coating would, at least to some effect, diminish the clarity of the image.

I believe an A/R coating does diminish clarity and transparency of the image, but this seems to be a minority view around here. The main reason I bought the S60 was because it didn't have a coating (which my prior set, the ST50, had and I didn't like from day one).
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