Paradigm Sub 1 or Seaton SubMersive HP?

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Hey guys,

I've been kicking around a sub upgrade from my M&K MX-350 mkII for 6+ months, and it's about time to pull the trigger. Although comparing these two subs as equal options might be seem odd, let me run down the pros and cons of each and please tell me what I'm missing, or which would suit my situation the best.

First off, ignore the price difference for now. Sure the Paradigm is more expensive any way you cut it, but it has some nice things going for it vs. ID sub solutions. My room is 13'W x 15'L x 8'H, fully enclosed. The location for the sub is near the front of the room next to a side wall, not in the corner however.

Things in favor of the SubM HP:

• Pretty much guaranteed to be bad-ass
• Better "value" than the Paradigm?

Concerns about the SubM HP:

• It's big
• Maybe overkill? IMO, there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to subs. You can always turn it down, but will have the ability to let loose when you want to. Having the headroom allows the sub to run well below its limits where distortion is lower.
• Mail order not ideal for service/warranty concerns There is no way to know for sure, but there seems to be few warranty issues with the submersive and they have always been taken care of. It's gotten better, the one knock on Mark is at times he has been difficult to get a hold of.
• Pro-style plate amp doesn't allow for the most flexibility for auto-on, power cord length, etc Many owners just leave the sub on at all times. The idle power draw for the submersive is about the same as the standby consumption for many other subs. Or you could get some type of remote 12V trigger to use with your AVR / processor. If you are worried about the power cord, Mark could probably send you a longer one or you can easily add the powercon connector to any cord you want.

Things in favor of the Paradigm Signature Sub 1:

• I've got a great local Paradigm dealer, so service, warranty and support is going to be excellent
• Looks great, so much more interesting visually than a big rectangle
  I agree these are two areas that could be advantages over the submersive. You need to decide if having a person you can talk to face to face and the "better" looks of the paradigm are worth the extra cost and slightly less performance. Don't forget that just because there is someone local to talk to does not mean service will be any quicker then from Mark. Just in case you haven't seen the pictures, the submersive comes in a number of different wood veneers or a piano black finish and there is the F2 which is less "boxy."
  
• All the connection and set-up options I could ever dream of

Concerns about the Paradigm Signature Sub 1

• Not likely to go as low/deep as SubM?
• Included PBK-1 is superfluous, as I have a Denon AVP with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 This is where you need to determine if the included features add any value to your situation. I don't think you will need to use the built in crossover or phase adjustment and I don't know how much the PBK will add over XT32.

I know some of you will have different suggestions ("go for dual Rythmik FV15HP's!") but I think dual-anything might be a logistical challenge in my room. Give some feedback, though! I'm not even sure I crave some <20Hz playback...I have two small kids in the house that are usually sleeping when I get to settle in for a movie. Sure, either of these are probably overkill, but I like to buy something fairly nice every 10-12 years and enjoy it thoroughly. I never want to find myself in the situation of "if I just spent a little more I could have had something to be happy with for 10+ years".

Originally Posted by Sam S 

I appreciate the response.

Not sure if I can appreciate the "fire cracker" comment, although I've never heard the Sub 1. Based on the specs, history of Paradigm subs, and reviews I've read, it shouldn't embarrass itself in a medium-size room like mine. Again, I realize the high MSRP doesn't scream "value", but it does have quite a few appealing traits that most ID subs don't have.

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Hey guys,

I've been kicking around a sub upgrade from my M&K MX-350 mkII for 6+ months, and it's about time to pull the trigger. Although comparing these two subs as equal options might be seem odd, let me run down the pros and cons of each and please tell me what I'm missing, or which would suit my situation the best.

First off, ignore the price difference for now. Sure the Paradigm is more expensive any way you cut it, but it has some nice things going for it vs. ID sub solutions. My room is 13'W x 15'L x 8'H, fully enclosed. The location for the sub is near the front of the room next to a side wall, not in the corner however.

Originally Posted by Sam S 


I did email with Mark a few days ago, and found him to be very responsive and helpful.


Sub response in that location is rather good. Room measurements via Audyssey XT32 and my prior SVS AS-EQ1 always returned good measurements and sonics for my current sub.

Hmmm.. now both of you guys got me thinking that an F2 would address my aesthetic concerns. A quick search didn't yield any direct HP vs. F2 comparisons, I'm guessing you trade off a bit of internal volume and total output with the F2?

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton 

We also have the distinction of all parts, including the amplifier, being made here in the US.

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton 

The Sub 1 is visually attractive, less physically imposing while still extend quite low with all reports of very good sound quality. Both are completely valid choices for differing priorities.

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Actually I was about 50/50 on the decision. The comments here definitely helped!

Originally Posted by Sam S 

I appreciate the response.

Not sure if I can appreciate the "fire cracker" comment, although I've never heard the Sub 1. Based on the specs, history of Paradigm subs, and reviews I've read, it shouldn't embarrass itself in a medium-size room like mine. Again, I realize the high MSRP doesn't scream "value", but it does have quite a few appealing traits that most ID subs don't have.

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Understood. I'm normally very decisive when it comes to all A/V purchases, in fact I've purchased several nice upgrades over the past 12 months. For some reason, I always have a hard time deciding and pulling the trigger on the subwoofer. Maybe because the choices are just so overwhelming compared to most product categories?

Originally Posted by jbrown15 

Well considering that a FV15HP can best a Signature Sub2 in the 12.5-40hz range, and the Sub2 is a step up from the Sub1 along with the fact that a SubMersive HP in considered by many to be "on another level" to subs like the FV15HP I don't think the "fire cracker" comment to be to far of a stretch. And lets not even get started on the price difference between the SubM and a Paradigm Sub1. I personally own a PSA XS30 sub and from looking at the measurments from data-bass.com based on the Sub2 it doesn't really even hold much of an advantage over my XS30, so I can't see the appeal of a Sub1 other then you already own Paradign speakers.

On another note I have a friend who is a Paradigm dealer and has been over to my place to check out my dual XS30 set up. He has a Sub1 and Sub2 at their show room and after hearing my subs he said there is no way he would ever spend the money on a Paradigm sub for his own personal theater room. The point I'm trying to make is other then "saying" you own a Paradigm Sub1 there's no real advantage IMO to buying one. The warranty should not be a concern.

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Well, reporting back on my decision... I just talked to Mark and placed an order for the SubMersive HP in Rosenut

I did give the F2 some consideration, but realized that the standard HP would be less obtrusive (physically) in my particular location, and the HP gives me a nice low surface to toss the occasional HT magazine onto

In the end, I didn't mind spending more for the Paradigm, but it appeared that there was no real performance benefit to it. With the help of Mark, I've worked through the power cord length issue and I'll be building a DIY trigger. I am hopeful the Rosenut finish is impressive and brings back good memories of the oiled Walnut Klipsh Cornwalls I had a few years ago. I have always enjoyed a nicely-stained veneer.

Originally Posted by Sam S 

Well, reporting back on my decision... I just talked to Mark and placed an order for the SubMersive HP in Rosenut

I did give the F2 some consideration, but realized that the standard HP would be less obtrusive (physically) in my particular location, and the HP gives me a nice low surface to toss the occasional HT magazine onto

In the end, I didn't mind spending more for the Paradigm, but it appeared that there was no real performance benefit to it. With the help of Mark, I've worked through the power cord length issue and I'll be building a DIY trigger. I am hopeful the Rosenut finish is impressive and brings back good memories of the oiled Walnut Klipsh Cornwalls I had a few years ago. I have always enjoyed a nicely-stained veneer.

Originally Posted by jbrown15 

Well considering that a FV15HP can best a Signature Sub2 in the 12.5-40hz range, and the Sub2 is a step up from the Sub1 along with the fact that a SubMersive HP in considered by many to be "on another level" to subs like the FV15HP I don't think the "fire cracker" comment to be to far of a stretch. And lets not even get started on the price difference between the SubM and a Paradigm Sub1. I personally own a PSA XS30 sub and from looking at the measurments from data-bass.com based on the Sub2 it doesn't really even hold much of an advantage over my XS30, so I can't see the appeal of a Sub1 other then you already own Paradign speakers.

On another note I have a friend who is a Paradigm dealer and has been over to my place to check out my dual XS30 set up. He has a Sub1 and Sub2 at their show room and after hearing my subs he said there is no way he would ever spend the money on a Paradigm sub for his own personal theater room. The point I'm trying to make is other then "saying" you own a Paradigm Sub1 there's no real advantage IMO to buying one. The warranty should not be a concern.