Does it really make a difference painting your movie living room dark or even black?

Yes it makes a big difference to the image on the screen (or it can). Yes it can make a big difference to the viewing experience. And yes it's possible to achieve these benefits without turning your room into a dungeon.


There are generally two main reasons for making your room dark and non-reflective:

1. To cut down on light reflections bouncing back from bright floors/ceilings/walls to the screen, which can reduce image contrast.

2. To make the room "disappear" in terms of reducing visual distractions.

When you get into the details, it's a pretty complex subject given all the variables. For instance, if you have a specialty screen which is made to reduce the room interaction with the image (e.g. gray-based screen with gain, like the Screen Innovations Black Diamond screen or the Stewart Firehawk gray screen), then darkening your room will have less visible benefits vs if you had a regular white screen. But in general, the above captures the issues.

Having your screen against a pitch black background really makes the image "pop" in terms of it's perceived brightness and...depending on the image...it's apparent contrast.

Using a 1.3 gain white screen, I have found benefits each time I've reduced room reflections. Contrast looked better and the image just appeared more stable and believable. And the more of the room I darken and make "disappear" the better and more immersive the viewing experience. Virtually everyone taking such measures feels the same.

As to how to achieve this in a non-dedicated room, I always say: Curtains, Curtains Curtains! They are the non-dedicated Home Theater's best friend. You can use some darker fabric curtains that stay stacked near the screen when you are not watching movies, and then simply pull them across brighter walls to cut down reflections for movie watching. The great thing about curtains is you can choose a really nice looking fabric that adds aesthetically to the room, and at the same time a dark curtain (especially velvet) pulled over a wall will provide significantly better light rejection than pretty much ANY black paint you can buy (and certainly better than any dark paint you'd ever consider in a non-dedicated room).

I turned a main floor living room into an AV/Home Theater room. Using these principles I have a room that is bright and cheery during the day:



But when I pull the dark curtains around the room - takes literally seconds! - it becomes even more of a "bat cave" than the average dedicated home theater:



The above image was taken with the lights on in the room full blast. The furniture and rug are actually dark brown and everything disappears in the dark.
So you get this kind of effect:






Details on exactly what I did from my Home Theater Build thread, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1254505/rich-hs-variable-image-size-home-theater-build-thread-completed/150#post_21997678

Hope that helps.

Rich

To some degree it can have the reverse affect... it becomes much more noticeable your black level isn't quite as good as you thought. When you have predominantly dark scenes and your environment is really dark all of a sudden you begin to notice your image looks washed out. At least this is what I have noticed over the years as my room has become darker and darker. If one cuts down on the obvious reflections I think you're in good shape. As an example you can see how much my ivory trim (click on my Avatar) shows up during a viewing.

 

 

 

 

I have also noticed if my room is very dark I have to reduce the projector's light output or my eyes get tired from fighting the brightness.

Edited by Charles R - 3/3/13 at 5:06pm

Great job Rich. Now you need a dark couch.

To the thread orinator, I obviously agree with Rich. If you can't do it, there are screens that will ameliorate the reflectivemess of the room but at a price.re other elements of PQ.

Har. Exactly what I thought. I actually got dark throws to go over my couches when I had white couches. And, of course, no white shirts or excessive smiling allowed. I know, I know... old joke. But covering my white couches was no joke. As modern projectors give better and better contrast it becomes more important.

Thanks Mark.

Actually the sofa images are (as usual with photos) deceiving. I had the exposure up, and lights full blast, to try and make other things visible in the shots. It's a very dark brown sofa material, chosen after much testing of materials with light rejection in mind.

When I do the Flashlight test, the sofa is so light absorbent, from it's position in the room it reflects no discernible light back on to the screen.

BTW, for those not aware of the Flash Light test (known as the "Torch Test" on the UK forum): it's a very useful test for room reflections that, if you are at all obsessive (describes no one on this forum, I know) it ought to be undertaken advisedly. Because it's very eye opening in terms of telling you what in your room is reflecting light back on to your screen (worsening contrast) and by how much. Once you see what's reflecting back to your screen, it's hard to "un-see what has been seen" and it might nag.

You turn off the lights in your room, stand at the screen and shine a flashlight around the room slowly, along walls etc, while watching to see how much light is thrown back on to your screen to light it up. The bright walls seen in my first photo really light the screen up in terms of reflections, especially the wall are close to the screen. My ceiling is dark felt, so it does a very good though not perfect job of light rejection. It's particularly educational in terms of what is really reflecting and what isn't. For instance, in this post you can see the black vinyl black-out blinds I use for my bay windows:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1254505/rich-hs-variable-image-size-home-theater-build-thread-completed/60#post_18747655

Their color looks a lot darker than my brown sofa. But standing at my screen the screen actually lights up a bit with the flashlight aimed at those black vinyl window covers. It's just the nature of the material itself, being plastic it has a shine and reflects somewhat. Whereas the same flashlight beam aimed at the brown sofa sends back zero discernible (to my eye) reflection to the screen. And that is one example of the nature of a materials like velvet, upholstry, felt etc. By nature most have a rough surface that "absorbs" more light than paint, since even pitch black paint has a flat enough surface to reflect. Anyone who has attempted to make their ceiling pitch black through paint alone has probably noticed you can still see the ceiling lighting up somewhat, especially if it's near the screen. Whereas a good black velvet will be far more light absorbent than any paint you can buy. The first part of my floor, and my L/C/R speakers right next to my screen are covered in Fidelio black velvet and they remain pitch black holes during movies.

Agree with you and Mark. A dark couch is just as important as dark everything else. I did a velvet cover on mine which made all the difference.

I cover my ottoman's sometimes with a black furry throw rug. It's not for picture contrast per se, but I love to make them disappear even more since they are between me and the image.

At one point doing the Flashlight Test I had placed a single 8 X 10 sheet of paper on the sofa. When the flashlight hit that piece of paper it was shocking - the entire room lit up as if I'd just turned the room lights on!

I agree: I've always been amazed to see some rooms in which the owner has clearly gone to lengths in darkening walls and rugs, only to throw in a cream colored (or similarly bright) set of
home theater chairs or something. I never quite get that.

My projector is set up in a room with mirrored walls, ceiling and floor. So, according to your little theory, that is bad for my picture quality?

Also, there is a pole in the middle of the room that casts a vertical black line down the middle of my projected image. I suppose you're going to say that's not good either.

No.

I mean...what if my wife reads this.

Or do you mean just the black curtain install? That was a few hundred bucks.

I don't watch movies during the day, but even at night the moon or streetlights could shine into the room, so the black out blinds stopped that. The velvet curtains going around the room are actually fairly thin and acoustically transparent, chosen for sound considerations. They would not fully block day-light if windows were open, but if I'd bought them "backed" they might. But it's an amazingly pitch black hole when everything is put in place.

Indeed. The flashlight test is a great tool. It's what made me cover my old couches. My wife thought I was crazy and she really, really enjoys the theater. I showed her what happened to the on-screen black levels when the couch was lit up. The next day she came home with covers! I gotta say it again... She came home with covers.

Thanks for bringing up the flashlight test Rich. I think Mark thought I was crazy when I mentioned this test a while back and how protostar was not as effective at killing light reflection vs some cheap Walmart black velvet that I tested/use. The flashlight test is very interesting as things in your room that you might not expect to be reflecting light back to the screen can do just that.

That is crazy.......I had the exact same experience with my GF. Showed her the test with the couch and she found a black couch cover within a day or so!

Thanks rich

I should probably cover my speakers
How do you attach the velvet to the speakers?
Also where do you buy the Fidelio black velvet

I ordered the protostar material too. It was a perfect match with my Carada screen frame "black hole" material, and allowed me to finish off the wall below the screen matching the screen frame for a built-in look. But to my surprise as you mention a dark velvet is visibly darker than the Protostar material in terms of light rejection/absorption. Not exactly what I expected of a material made to be as light absorbent as possible for lining telescopes. (It IS very dark though and quite a useful product).

The reactions of others to these darkening room tweaks has been interesting. It's the trades people who help me put some of it together who seem to wonder "what the hell is this guy doing? Why does he want this?" But once guests see the curtains go around etc, they immediately get it and really like the results. Even during my UFC parties should anyone exiting the room for snacks/beer leave the doorway curtain open a crack, everyone yells at him to close it completely, because they really appreciate what a pitch black room does for the experience.


I wanted things neat and tidy - not like I just put an ill-fitting velvet shroud over the speakers - so I measured my speakers and had velvet covers made for each one. Now it looks like they came that way. The covers stay attached by Velcro. Of course once you do your speakers you notice your speaker stands, so I covered them as well. Pretty simple to do.

Now when I watch at some friend's places who use projectors and the standard "all the equipment on racks around the screen" look, I'm amazed how much visual distraction is added and when I get back to my set up I'm so glad
I put the effort in for (IMO) the better viewing environment.

The difference between a dark and light room is massive. I have a dark dedicated room and when I upgraded to the RS50 my parents took my previous RS2. They set it up in a mainly unused room they have which has light blue coloured walls, light carpet and a white ceiling. The RS2 looks like a 10 year old budget projector in there when anything bright (no matter how big) comes on screen, totally washing out the image. I am often dog sitting at their place when they go on vacation and I don't even bother to use the RS2 because of how bad it looks. The only positive really is I don't think they use it much as they don't watch a lot of movies. I don't even think they have put 150 hours on it in over 2 years.

Anyone who has a good projector and is using it in a light coloured room and who uses it a lot and thinks it looks decent is really missing out. There's almost no point to having a projector if the room is light coloured.

I need to try that flashlight test and see what's up in my theatre. I don't have anything really that is bright coloured yet I get this feeling there is some light being projected back that I could control. I have the area around the screen blacked out now with felt and some bed sheets that stretches out say 6-8 feet from the screen and that creates a neat experience since the screen's frame disappears, can hardly see my speakers mounted tot he side and below the screen and the image appears brighter than when I just had my darkish gray walls and ceiling and darkish green carpet in that area showing. I also agree with Charles on how a dark room makes the shortcomings in digital pj projected black more apparent. A fully black/blank screen with my RS50 isn't anywhere close to black though I do find my aspect ratio bars are quite dark on most lower apl material and bright scenes to a quick black does cause the screen to become invisible for a few seconds, something I didn't get to the same length on the RS2.

Painting my room darker was the best thing that happened for my picture quality. However, reflections and bright spots (I still have a white chair in the field of view) become more obvious. It's a dangerous road that is so tempting, that it will lead you towards the black hole effect in no time at all - beware!

I'm already planning the next steps of optimizing picture quality in my room and get rid of the last bits that disturbs the immersion. For instance, I'll have to get a dark rug to put infront of my screen, as the floor now is more obvious, which it really wasn't when my walls were white.

As has been previously stated, blacking out your room will:
-increase your sense of immersion
-reduce room reflections making in scene contrast better on scenes with bright and dark areas (brigter images will pop more)
-give you an absolute black reference which may make dark scenes look washed out (not as black in comparison)
-become a slippery slope where you'll start wanting to black out everything

I went from a flat grey paint (between dark grey and grey) ceiling and walls, to flat black paint ceiling and walls to black velvet covered ceiling and walls in my room. In my setup, going from grey to black paint was a very marginal improvement, and I would not do it again. Paint reflects a of light, period. Now going to black velvet is a different story. It truly does what I was hoping black paint would. Light hits it and is almost completely absorbed.

So I would do it again in my dedicated room for that immersion and in scene contrast improvement, and an option like rich has suggeted is excellent if you cant get away with that black hole look 100% of the time.

There are lots of ways of lighting a dark pit when you are not watching a movie etc to make it look quite beautiful and not pit like. My room is black fabric covered with appropriate sound treatment materials under the fabric depending on location--absorption, reflective except at low frequencies, or diffusive. i used a dark wood chair rail to cover a horizontal fabric seam running around the room and it richens things up a bit. A small platform with a brass stripper pole and appropriate spot lighting and heated and vibrating chairs also provide for a true multiuse room even if all black. No I did not install a pole, just a perhaps useful idea for you guys.

+1 for Velvet !!!

 

It was just supposed to be a temporary fix to make an otherwise unused basement storage area into a make-shift man-cave,

it's since become the favorite room in the house and has remained basically unchanged for over 4 years now.

 

It's near impossible to get good pic's of a totally blacked-out bat cave. My camera's flash just gets absorbed by the Black Velvet sponge!

 

 

I have to bring in additional lighting just to snap a decent photo

 

 

 

Amazing Video/Audio improvement, and all I needed was a staple gun and a discount card for Fabric Land. :D

Since I have no drywall at all, there are no sound reflections, and my entire room acts as a bass trap.

 

I went with a rich deep black velvet on top half of the room, brown on the lower half, then added just enough textures and accent colors,

that were pulled from the border stripes of the area rugs making the room feel a little warmer with a mix of chocolate brown and dark moss green earth tones.

 

 

some before/after shots...

 

 

 

 

Screen wall just before insulation and velvet

 

Dark Moss Green Velvet screen wall...

 

 

 

Even with a couple strategically placed lamps turned on the image is pretty good because the side/rear walls don't bounce the light back onto the screen...

 

 

lights out and my 120" pops like a giant plasma... ( PJ is a 4 y/o Epson 1080UB, screen is 4 y/o motorized 1.3 gain I found on ebay new for $250 shipped)

 

Edited by PioManiac - 3/4/13 at 11:28am

THX Whitepaper: The Importance of Viewing Environment Conditions in Reference Display Systems (2/3/2009)

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesarticles2009/articles20090302-03.html

Agreed. I was shocked at the improved PQ going from red painted walls to then covering with red GOM FR701 fabric. My highpower screen does not scatter as much light to the sides as a normal screen, but the fabric still improved my pq, subjectively, 5-10%.

One of the neat things you see (or I saw anyway) when cutting down room reflections is how the dynamics of the projected image improve as well as the stability of those dynamics and the image overall.
You may not particularly notice the rising and lowering of contrast in the image before room treatment, but once you see it removed it's a bit of a revelation, the way the image just gets more solid and believable.

I have had to fix my projector lift and for various reasons this means I have not been able to draw the black velvet curtain across much of my back (somewhat bright) wall, which is about 13-14 feet from the screen. Now I notice that lack of image stability, the subtle rising and lowering of image contrast as scenes change, so I can't wait to get back to full bat-cave mode.

I was surprised how much my floor was reflecting light when I did the flashlight test many years ago, even with the darker carpet. I ended up putting velvet there as well which was definitely well worth it for the overall image experience.

I still have a few tweaks I need to make as well which I will do at some point.

Here's a few random pictures I found of screen shots that show washed out images

with greatly compromised contrast levels due to reflections off lighter ceilings, walls and floors...

 

 

 

 

Edited by PioManiac - 3/4/13 at 11:29am

Couldn't these photos just be the result of less than expert photography? It's not easy to take a photo that accurately reflects what a projector image looks like in person. Seems like it could very well just be these pictures are overexposed? I'm not arguing that room reflections don't make a difference, just that these photos might not be representative of that effect.

 

Each photo posted was taken from an AVS user who was complaining about the loss of contrast due to reflections,

and they were asking advice on room treatments and color options to correct the situation.

 

So I was taking their word for it they knew exactly what they were experiencing after describing what they witnessed in person (along with posting photos)

 

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Originally Posted by gammanuc 

I have the exact same scenario as you have, only I have a structural beam that is about 5" lower than the ceiling. A bright scene will reflect off the ceiling and illuminate the whole room. That being said, the picture quality of my Optoma HD65 still blows me away and even looks good when compared to the 50" Viera that I have mounted on the same wall.
In the end though I will be darkening the ceiling at some point, it seems improvements are never ending...unless I stop visiting these forums!

An extremely bright scene (paused)..








 

Edited by PioManiac - 3/4/13 at 11:24am

Fair enough.