Small room decision time.

A thank you to all the advice I got in my first thread, wonderfully helpful, especially as so many good speakers companies are easy to miss, being internet only and little/no marketing past word of mouth or trade shows.

Over the weekend i did a lot of reading and some test arranging in my space with an old pair of bookshelves out of storage.
I found my initial estimate of a 10"(+/- 2") speaker depth was a little high.

My space is only 7x9(w,d) with a large computer desk(fills front wall), desk chair and couch(fills back wall) already. Speakers with 10" depth would make the space go from cozy to cramped i think. After seeing just a pair of small speakers(9hx7dx7w), let alone adding 3 more and a sub I had to rethink a bit of what i had been looking at. If you don't live in a really small space it can be hard to imagine, but trust me in such a small space +/- a few inches can make room go from roomy feeling, to cozy, to cramped.
I may still put in something a little bigger but want to keep it as small as i can without going to satellites.

If anyone has any weigh in on this before I buy i would be very grateful for the input. i am currently on the edge of suffering from the paradox of choice(too many options) so any input would be great even if its to say everything you're looking at is fine and you won't go wrong even if you just random roll pick a set.

More space or more money (1.4k max) is NOT an option. Some WAF is involved in this equation so please don't go making me wish for something i can't have by suggesting "if only a little bigger" or "only a little more money."
I'm already going to catch a fair amount of flack for the price as it is, as well as the wall mounted stuff no matter how small(it's just a part of the cost of what you want sometimes but i can only "afford" so much)


So here is the list in rank order from most to least likely buy based on current costs, availability, and information. List at top break down details below.

FYI: Whatever i buy will be used both with and WITHOUT the sub unit turned on. I'm in a duplex and my floor is another's ceiling so on weekend late nights the sub goes off(current satellite system is terrible to hear without the sub, which is why i'm not looking at a sat. system for such a small room).

1: HSU Research Value 1 - 5.1 Package.

2: Ascend HTM-200 SE + STF-1 Sub from HSU

3: PSB Alpha B1 + Alpha C1 + STF-1
OR
PSB Image B4 + image C4 + STF-1

4: Boston Acoustics A25 + A225C + SFT-1 or BA's
ASW 250)

5: Cambridge Audio S30 + S50 + SFT-1

6: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0 + 10cs + SFT-1 OR DIAMOND 10 SX.





1: HSU Research Value 1 - 5.1 Package.

The Hybrid 2 was suggested(which is how i found to look here thank you very much)but the sub was way bigger than i can fit in the room. However the package here has a sub that will fit great.
Everything i read about this set seems like it's the right fit(for me, but maybe not for the room so much). The speakers at 15" tall are a bit room filling, and due to their size i would likely have to mount these very high on the wall just a few inches from the ceiling.(wrote to HSU asking about this speaker placement and await their reply)
And just maybe i can figure out how to place the fronts on my desk, but the rears would still have to be high wall mounted.



2: Ascend HTM-200 SE + STF-1 Sub from HSU (yes i would like the STF-2 but the 1 fits in the room way better for it's 11"w)

I have seen some posts/reviews from people with a set of 5 of these that were good, and they seem made to be in a small room. This is my second choice and may actually be better for the space i have than the HSU set.
In my email to HSU i described my room and setup options asking them if they feel this space would do their speakers justice or if they think my space would be better server by this configuration.

If this seems to be the way to go i may get the 170s for fronts...but the 200s would fit in the space better...how much flack I can take will be a consideration for this.



Those are the two real contenders for me right now and a reply from HSU is going to carry weight for the decision to be sure. From all that i have read about the company/the person(Dr.Hsu) i feel that i can probably trust them to let me know if they think their speakers are not the best fit for the space(rather than just be sales people that say yes to whatever gets the money handed over).


There were 4 other options i had looked at but found little info, or mixed reviews so i thought I would ask about them here before i go spending money. i don't expect to be in a bigger space or upgrade these speakers anytime soon, so i want to make a purchase I can live with for years to come.


3: PSB Alpha B1 + Alpha C1 + STF-1
OR
PSB Image B4 + image C4 + STF-1

All round seems like decent reviews on these and they get suggested over the Cambridge Audio s30s in a review i found.

Is there any real step up from the Alpha to the Image? both are within budget but the Image set only just.



4: Boston Acoustics A25 + A225C + SFT-1 or BA's
ASW 250)

Decent reviews on this set but about $300 more than the HSU set with the BA sub. Speakers are a good size fit for the room overall, about same foot print as HSU but 3" shorter.
Anyone have a thought on this one vs. the current two contenders?



5: Cambridge Audio S30 + S50 + SFT-1

All reviews on these say great buy, but for some reason when i look at them they just kinda turn me off. I'm not usually influenced much by this kind of thing as i am very much a function over form person, but i just don't like the looks from some reason and so these did not get high on my list, though they probably should be from all that i have read. Hardly a bad review out there about them. My real concern here is that most people seem to say they sound much better a bit out from the wall and that's not going to be an option in my space. So like the HSU speakers they just might mot be a good match to the space i have.


6: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0 + 10cs + SFT-1 OR DIAMOND 10 SX.

The 10.1 were recommended but at 11" deep it's going to be a little more than i had thought i could fit. Also i can't find anyone with 10.1 speakers to sell anyway. A guessed at 4-6 weeks shipping time was the best i could find and that's just a guess not a guarantee. Not really wanting to have to wait around on this one, I'm in project mode now.
But the 10.0 seem to be getting mixed reviews from what i could find. As this set would cost more than the other two I'd rather get more info/input before spending the $.

i did look at NHTs but they just go beyond the budget for me a set of 4 Zeros + C is already 1.2k with no sub, and i don't want to cheap out on the sub to make the budget.


Thanks again for any input you may have to offer.
I will be more patience this time in waiting for replies too.


P.S.
I'm in the computer tech industry as well as it's my hobby. The forums i am used to frequenting have a really fast turn over rate. Things go from OP, to an answer or two, to a conflicting answer, to a flame war and dead in about a 3-6 hour life cycle on average.
I don't know, bunch of people who's 9-5+ work frequently involves getting input from others through forums while on the job, go figure.

Please feel free to ask any computer technical issues, and hardware build/buy advice questions while I'm here, it's all i have to offer yall in return for all the great info you've already given me.
Oh and of course once bought and installed i'll come back and give a review of how things worked out in case any other small room folks roll though.
Edited by FullFrontalYeti - 3/4/13 at 12:55pm

Thanks for the input.


It's going to be for all 3(movies, music, games) run from my computer. Games will be the primary use, so for me surround is important(need to know when to spin around on someone trying to come up behind me).
I know most smaller speakers don't carry a lot of bass, but they will mostly be used with the sub, just has to go off if i'm up late. Currently though after killing the sub from the satellites I have(fairly cheap ones to be sure) it's like listening to a speaker project for kids made out of cardboard box, note paper cone and scotch tape, so much is lost.

So i want something that can carry more range for those times. They need not be bassy, just able to carry a decent range over what i currently use in that situation, while being a great full sound system with the sub in use most of the time.

While the current space will not allow for it, the longer term use plans include output from these sources:

1: computer games
2: DVD/Streaming movies(from computer)
3: music from computer
4: music from turntables
5: output from a Yamaha electric piano
6: output from a Sequential Circuits Drumtraks


For now though there is no room for the turn tables + mixer , piano, or drum machine. So those are relegated to garage use currently with the club speakers until we move to a place where i have space to get it all into one room again. That's not likely to be anytime soon though so rather then wait for us to move i'm settling in as best i can with what space i do have.
For this reason it would be nice to get something that would fit in the current space, but also move with me and remain a decent choice even if my room is upped in size a bit(it will never be that much bigger we like being in a smaller space as it's just the two of us).

Thanks for the tip on the Mordaunt Short Carnival 2 speakers, but they seem a bit hard to come by as they are no longer made.

Google turns up little

And the one place i can find them is Sears? Really, Sears online store with a non-sears vendor selling them called Choice Avenue. they seem to sell a potpourri of whatever which makes me just a bit hesitant to purchase from them.
Supposedly they do have 4 of these in stock and I can get a carnival 5 center from another seller there as well.
This was the only place i found these for sale at all, other wise just one used pair at amazon.

C2s @ 307 a pair + 250 for the center
comes to $1009 shipped without a sub, so is very close to maxing my budget after adding a sub.

i did find S30s at $219 a pair so

S30s @ @219 a pair + center S50 @ 199 is $637 shipped.

A $372 difference.

This seems a bit big of a price gap for a set of speakers that are consider to be close to the same thing.

Worth it? Do you think the vendor may be iffy?

I'm always a little cautious when buying something no longer being made and very low in availability like this.
Would you stick to a vendor that's audio product focused for this kind of a buy?

Thanks again for the input.
Good to hear what the new cost was in the range of for comparison to what i could find.

The C2 seemed like a good fit with the front ports and proper size(<10" deep) for my space but alas all the current lines they make are rear ported. Not that i couldn't use them but it was a + point for the space i have to be sure.

thanks also for the look around to find some deals.

Closer looking at the 5.1 set shows the C2s(front ported) clearly in the picture, but the details in print say it's shipping with the C1s, not the C2s
As i have a good deal more room in my budget over the $400 for the 5.1 C1 setup I'm going to keep looking.


Looking at the Mordaunt-Short Aviano 2 shows a depth of just over 11". A little too big for my room i'm afraid. i got to stay in the 10" or less deep zone and not really nay wiggle room on that one.
The Aviano 1 comes in at 10.7 so is also just a little too big for the space probably...4+ the Aviano 5 at $349 comes to about $850(+ tax and shipping still)

and the S30s are still about $200 cheaper . Worth the cost?

Anyone here use the or have exp. with Aviano 1 speakers?

Looking more and more like the S30s might be the way to go from what i have read and the feed back i get in the forums. It seems to be the speaker most people have nothing particularly negative to say about. Not that others don't come well recommended, just seems like the overall highest satisfaction though from what other users have to say.

Well it's down to these two for me it looks like

2: Ascend HTM-200 SE set of 5....maybe the 170s for the fronts if i feel i can take the heat for their extra size.(WAF heat. What's up with girls and speakers needing to be small all the time?)

or the

5: Cambridge Audio S30 x4 + S50



I did see people saying that the S30 might be a little bright or something(a little in your face treble sometimes) Which is one of my concerns.
Whatever I get will be wall mounted, but the fronts and center will be near field to my computer use position(primary use say 80% and mostly for games) and about 6'+ from the couch for tv/movie watching(secondary use maybe 15%).
Music listening is the least use, as i tend to go to the turn tables in the garage for that most days anyway, and when it is music form the computer i'm not generally in the room but doing stuff around the house while it plays.

I did order the wall mounts a few days ago as they seemed like the way i was likely to go already(the clamping ones).
Also speaker size will have some effect on how high up the wall i will have to mount the fronts (the bigger the higher they will have to be mounted).
All measurements are est.

I currently est. the fronts will be about 3' from me at most unless i mount them higher up the wall. Currently looking at about 6' off the floor but could go higher(may have to go higher for WAF).


So being that they will be near filed listing, used as a 5.1 set most of the time(for games not movies as much), and wall mounted is there a clear choice or is this a coin toss?
Both sets (170x2+200x3 or S30x4 + S50x1 ) cost within a few dollars of each other so no price considerations, just what will i be better served by?


I lean a bit to the ascends. A mix of looks, place of manufacture, and i just like to support smaller and local companies when i can, but i'm no free market sucker i do want to get proper value for my $ not just a good feeling about where it's going.



A couple extra questions if I may.

Both sets also come in cheap enough that i could spend some extra on the sub.

Currently looking at the HSU STF-1. Seemed to get decent reviews and it's over all size is about as big as i could have. The 11" w is quite a perfect fit for the space other wise I would have gone straight to the SFT-2 but at 14" it's going to eat up a bit more room than i want to give up.
Is this a decent plan or would anyone suggest something else that's with in my size and price limits? The two choices above leave me about $500 to burn(yea little more but the spending less is good and factors into the WAF equation). In fact if i could find a set of speakers that i really liked but would only take up 10 square inches total she would probably be ok with spending a years earnings on them



Also as i described the front speaker setup would you recommend mounting the center closer to the LCD or keep it even with what ever height i wind up mounting the fronts?


And a big thank you again for all the great input, it's been really helpful.

^^
The space is 7wx9d, couch on back wall, desk on front wall, desk chair close to center of space(bout 2' closer to front wall then back).
A wall is to my left when seated(about 2-3'' away) open space on right. Total room size is 13x9, but speakers will stay in the 7x9 area as the other part of the room is wife's computer desk/office area.


The front wall is about 2' 6" from my seated position and 6' off the floor mount height puts the speakers(using a tape measure while seated) at just about 3' from my ear(a diagonally straight line from ear to where i est. the cones would be). I am fairly well centered on the wall so this is right about the same distance for both speakers.
This includes that the speakers would be in the clamp mounts so a little bit out from the wall.

they may be about 1' (maybe +/- 2-3" at most) above ear level when i'm sitting in my chair(I'm 6' tall so i sit a little high) and about 2' or so above ear level when on the couch.
The bottom of the front speakers would be just a little above the top of my LCD(maybe 6") so the center could be both inline with the fronts and only a few inches above the display(under is not an option that's precious desk real estate)

i think just a little over about 6' from the fronts while on the couch is correct, but I'm not as concerned about the couch time as that accounts for a fairly small % of total use. If i can get this set up well for my desk sitting spot that's the real goal, i can live with whatever that means for couch time.

Putting the rears even with the fronts(for height) has the bottom of the speakers come to just a little over head height while on the couch. As they are on the same wall(as the couch) they will be close to even(out from the wall) with a person's head sitting on the couch(antique couch fairly narrow back, not a modern over stuffed).

For this, i had wondered if i should mount the rears a little higher and slight more down angle so they might be heard better form the couch. But i would not do that if it would compromise the desk listening position. Desk is number 1, all other positions are not important enough to make any compromises to that listening position.






Super thanks for those two links Resonate. i have been reading that thread(almost got floored) but was not likely to make it 168 posts in.
The pictures of all the speakers next to each other for size really helps(thank you Ster3ohead) and the pics of the speakers set up in home look way better than then the company site pics. I think i'm sold on the S30s now after the side by side compare was given as it sounds like this person may have similar sound tastes to my own.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice yall.

P.S.
any place you prefer to use for such a purchase? The S30 is not found so easy as the S30SL seems to be it's replacement. Found at sears online from a 3rd party called HiDef Lifestye but have not bought form them before(buy lots of computer hardware online so i only really know those sites well), anyone yea/nay on them?
Edited by FullFrontalYeti - 3/6/13 at 12:23pm

They say "some items out of stock. do you want what we have now and ship the other stuff later when we get it in or wait till we have it all and ship it as a group?" but they don't tell me this until i'm checking out and it's not saying what it is that's out of stock so i can't get what they have from them and what they don't have from someone else. geerrrrrrr (actually played with the cart, they are out of both S30s and the S50 they just like to let you pretend your going to buy something)
Hope I didn't miss the boat on these.

I'll keep looking today but i'm wanting to pull the trigger on this buy sometime thur. if i can. I'm lazy(outside my primary hobbies) and this project is already running over my effort budget. I get OCD on this stuff if it goes on too long, and then I'll be dreaming about shopping and installing speakers soon if i'm not careful. I prefer dreaming about tearing apart computer hardware and my computer related DIY projects. Well that and hot sex.

I do have the space and budget for it so i'm going to get the S30s as a 4 set and an S50 center instead of 30s and 20s.
Now if i can just find a set to buy.


Yea I did look at some NHTs but anything that seemed to meet the needs in sound came up over budget. The Zeros don't dip into the lower ranges quite enough for me seeming to be specifically designed for use with a sub for a proper full sound.

Thanks again all for your time and effort here helping me out.
And really if you happen to have a computer related tech issue or build/buy advice needed don't hesitate to ask i do wish I could offer more in return for all your time.

@Robert Cook

yea my est. on where the rear speakers come to is probably off. As i don't have mounts or speakers in hand yet I'm just eyeballing it a fair amount right now. I probably under guessed it in relation to the couch position. I'm using a cardboard box as speaker place holder and my use of the measuring tape is a bit lax. I'll get properly careful once i have things in hand and can actually see how they fill the space.
Thank you for all the input this is going to help a lot.


And now my one real issue left is I CAN'T BUY THESE SPEAKER ANYMORE.
The S30 seems to be out of stock with everyone and the S30-SL is not yet available(don't care for the finish on it anyway really).
A few places say they have S30s, only to find out they don't during check out, or that they list it for buy but your actually pre-ordering for when they get more in. Which I'm not willing to do, especially as it seems the S30 is about to be EOL, they may not get anymore in anyway.





On another note, i was making some jokes before about my honey's willingness to part with more money to save space. Turns out it's no joke.
My honey is a serious penny pincher(which is good cause i just lite money on fire sometimes for no need at all so it keeps me in check) But it turns out parting with money is not such an issue when compared to giving up household space.

So, if the S30s are no where to be had, and i would have to spend more money to get a speaker meeting my needs, around the same size or smaller (as S30, it was the smallest of what i had recommendations on)it's apparently not going to be an issue.
In fact even if the S30 were in stock she would still not care about spending more if it meant space saving.

All previous needs are still in effect of course. While wanting small i need something that can preform on it's own without a sub. Fine if a sub is needed to really fill out the sound, but not if it's needed to keep from listening to tin can sounding higher ranges only speakers.

Or of course, i was sold on the S30s and would snatch up a set of 4 if i could. I have pretty good google-foo, but i keep turning up empty for a seller that actually has these in stock. After 3 days of looking I'm about outta hope.
I could go for the Ascend set still, but that picture of the 170 and the S30 side by side really helped sell the S30's size to me. Space is a real factor for me too, i don't want to sit in a room that feels cramped all the time.


So on that note.
Any speaker suggestions for my wants if i upped the budget a bit?
I had been shooting for around 1k with a willingness to go to 1.4k max, but now i'm more willing to hit 1.6-1.8 or so for a 5.1 setup(smaller speakers = more money is ok according to the WAF variable). Which i interpret to mean: If the S30 was as small as it's going to get and it costs more to get something same sized now that's it's out of stock, so be it.


A little more money, and a focus on small size(10"or less deep, about 12" tall or less) turned up a few other things to consider.

What do you think of these options?
I'm still, open some of the OP options too(the Ascends were next on the list), but if the budget is upped and something S30 sized or smaller/better can be had, i'd be in for it(as is also my honey).


Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000

Paradigm Atom Monitor

Monitor Audio BX1

FOCAL CHORUS 705V


Unless there is a better rec for the sub I'm probably sticking with the HSU STF-1 for it's most proper size fit for me. But i did note that the SuperCube 2000 and the ProSub 1000 both come in about the same size and can be had in a package deal with the 1000 F/B/C set. Any thoughts on that? both more or less = or is the HSU sub a little on top for that size range maybe?

I find the Focal 705Vs to be very nice looking, are they more style then substance for the price($400 pr.)?



BTW sorry to be back to the drawing board on this one yall. Twice now i have been teased with great speaker recs. that met all my wants, only to find they can't be bought anymore. I guess makers figure out pretty quick when they have something too good for the price point.

And as always, a most deep bow and big thank you to all chipping in on this quest for small but full sounding speakers.

OOHHHH look a site called http://www.avhifi.com claims to have the S30 in(and a set of 4 in oak like i want) as well as the S50 center.

Anyone know this place? After 3 days of looking and only turning this up today it makes me a little hesitant as so many other sites claim to have them only to not actually have them. My concern is a BS site willing to get the payment 1st and then say oohh sorry we're out of stock on that item, we'll ship it to you when we get it in. Any company doing that kind of thing is probably a pain in the ass to get my money back out of once they have it.

Of course the budget has been upped a bit, so if i could do better in about the same size package that'd be cool.
I think I'll make this buy in a few hours if i don't hear anything else back in here. I had already decided to go this route so it kind seems like i should move on this one.




Oh yea i'm aware that smaller speakers can only carry so much range and that the lower end bass tends to require a bit of volume to come out sometimes too.

For me it's probably best to state the advice I need most like this:

If you had to have a speaker no bigger than 10" deep(and about 10"h X 8"w +/-1-2"), no sub woofer in use, and a budget of about 1k-1.3k for a F/R/C set. What would you get?


Took me a while to figure out how to state that though as i have been playing around with what my exact space limits are, and of course a recent bump in the budget.
But whatever speaker that may be, odds are good it will beat the daylights out of the tiny satellites i have now when the sub is not on.