Newbie Needs Help with Surround Sound for Media Room

I wanted a speaker package, subwoofer and receiver for $2,000, but ended up spending $3,500.
Edited by isagreg - 3/7/13 at 7:53pm

I think that many would consider stuffing the front soundstage of a home theater system into an entertainment cabinet (even if it's custom) a challenge, and in some respects it is.

Yes, there are many unknowns at this point. You can start by answering the following question:
If you're like most people and listen at "ordinary" volumes, then in a room of this size it shouldn't be that difficult to find suitable speakers. On the other hand, if you wish to listen at "reference" volume, like in a commercial movie theater, then you'd need speakers that are designed expressly for high output (it'd be hard to fit many of them, though), and you'd also want to use some acoustic treatments around the room, I imagine. Which type are you?

It would also be useful to know where and how you could mount your surround speakers. With your couch pretty much up against the back wall, I presume for the time being that you want a 5.1 system, but if you want a 7.1 system with back surrounds, then let us know. I'm guessing that there is a window to the left and a doorway (whether or not there is a door) to the right of the couch--is this correct? If so, then is there some space above both the window and door where surround speakers could be mounted? Then of course there is the issue of how to run cables to them--hopefully you are still able to easily run the cables through the walls.

By the way, I presume that your couch will be situated directly across from the TV, as opposed to being offset--is this correct? I also presume that the center speaker will be placed on a shelf above the TV--tell us if you have other plans or preferences.

As for speakers, if you're going to place them inside cabinets, then it would be best if they were sealed (acoustic suspension) or front-ported, which restricts your options considerably because more and more speakers are rear-ported these days. Here are some sample systems based on sealed speakers for ordinary output levels (all prices include shipping and volume discounts):

System #1
3 x NHT Classic Two = $990
2 x NHT SuperZero 2.0 = $198
1 x SVS PB-1000 = $499
Total = $1687

System #2
3 x NHT Absolute Zero = $660
2 x NHT SuperZero 2.0 = $198
1x HSU Research VTF-2 MK4 = $626
Total = $1484

System #3
5 x Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 SE = $722
1 x SVS PB12-NSD = $769
Total = $1491

These are merely sample systems, just to get things going--actual recommendations will depend on feedback we get from you and others. Obviously you are free to mix & match between various speakers and subwoofers to get the price and performance you prefer, or the rest of us could suggest additional speaker makes and models.

System #1 has the biggest, fullest-sounding speakers at the front, with fairly well matched but small surrounds and a sub that should be just enough to fully satisfy most people in this size room.

System #2 uses smaller, less expensive speakers at the front, but maybe they won't give up much if you don't like listening to movies loudly; some of the savings in cost are put toward a larger sub with adjustable parameters, and the rest is reflected in a lower price, just under the low end of your budget.

System #3 uses the very same speaker all around for the best possible match. These speakers aren't as pretty (important to some folks) and they cost less, but they sound just as good, in my opinion--neutral and accurate like the NHTs, but a touch on the brighter side to my ears, which you may or may not prefer. This sample system also has more capable surrounds that can be crossed over to the sub at 80 Hz, which has some advantages. You could give the other systems more capable surrounds as well if you care to, but it'll cost you. Just for kicks, I put the greater cost savings into a monster sub (compared to your room), and still came in just under your budget. Remember that these are just semi-random examples for us to work with. Any feedback or questions you may have would be useful.

By the way, I chose to use the same bookshelf speaker for all three front speakers in each system because this would give viewers sitting to the sides of center the best sound quality. The NHT centers would be oriented vertically like the left & right fronts, while the Ascend is actually optimized for use as a horizontally-oriented center, which may be more visually appealing to you (performance even in this orientation will be close to that of the NHTs). The Ascend has the best dispersion characteristics of these speakers when used as vertically-oriented surrounds.
Edited by Robert Cook - 3/8/13 at 12:39pm

Placing the center below the TV can work, but you may get harsh reflections from the floor, especially if it will be hardwood, of course. Personally, I think that above the TV works better, and since you can design any cabinet you want, that should work (doesn't always because some entertainment cabinets have a divider right where the center would go)--just my opinion, though.

Generally speaking, these are costly AVRs relative to your speaker budget, although the latter is adequate for your purposes in this case. If you need the features these AVRs offer over less expensive models, then that's fine, but speakers are by far the most important component with respect to the quality of experience you will have. As for the AVRs in question, I tend to prefer Denon/Marantz, as they seem to give people less trouble than Onkyo/Integra.

It's actually $507 with shipping, unless you live in Southern California and could pick it up yourself. It's a quality sub and should be sufficient for your room, in my opinion. But unless you really need/want its flexibility with regard to tuning, the aforementioned SVS PB-1000 digs deeper for about the same price, shipped. So does a few Hz make much of a difference? At this frequency range I think it does, actually (unless you only watch romantic comedies ). Either would be a fine choice for the money, though.

These are all quality speakers and good values, but they're also rear-ported. Now, I'm usually the first to say that rear ports don't make a significant difference in most cases, especially when a bass-reflex speaker's tuning frequency is far below its crossover frequency to the subwoofer, but inside a cabinet is a special case. Will your cabinet be open to the rear? This would certainly help.

This could work alright, but the best performance would be achieved by mounting the surrounds to the sides of the viewers, firing across the room rather than mostly toward the front. If there is nowhere to place the surrounds on the side walls, then they could be mounted on the back wall and rotated 90 degrees inward or a bit less (like my own are). If you'd strongly prefer in-wall surrounds, then try to find a place for them on the side walls, even if they would be a bit high up (you have some distance, so that should help).

As Robert pointed out, you are better off putting your money towards speaker and subs than into expensive receivers. The SQ gain going from a $400 to a $800 receiver will be less than you can get from better speakers and sub.

For instance, I would recommend the Rythmik LV12R instead of the HSU VTF-1 MK2. It's a 12" that will have more output than the VTF-1.2. It uses direct servo technology to improve the accuracy of the driver response. And it's currently on sale for $549 shipped. It's a recent upgrade over their FV12 model (you can find lots of testimonials about that one); thus, the sale price. Rythmik has not updated their website with pictures yet, but you can find them in the AVS Rythmik owners thread starting here (good place to ask questions, too).

If you go with the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE center, then you have to go with the Ascends for left/right. For your front sound stage, it's important that the speakers timbre match. That means either (a) three of the exact same speaker (optimal) or (b) a center that the manufacturer has matched to with the left/right (a slight compromise over three exactly the same).

Now I recently got the CBM-170 SE, and based on my experience with them, I would go for the CMT-340 SE and the matching center for all three across the front. The 170s are excellent, and the CMT's would give you increased dynamics and slightly better midbass response over the 170s. Plus, then you would have three of the exact same speaker across the front. Although because the CBM-170s use the same drivers as the CMT-340 SE center, those three would work very well, too.

While it's not as strict a "rule" as many seem to believe, it would be best to stick with either sealed or front-ported speakers. To tell you the truth, though, bass will tend to interact with the cabinet regardless, so it's really a matter of degree, which is then mitigated by crossing over to the subwoofer in the case of rear-ported speakers that are tuned much lower, as well as room correction systems that are built into most every decent AVR these days. I'll have to think about this some more for your case and do some experiments, but in the meantime I think that I came up with some pretty viable examples.

There isn't much of a difference between the amplifier sections of AVRs until you get to the extremely expensive ones, in which case you would be better served--both in terms of sheer capability and cost--with a combination of separate amplifiers and the cheapest AVR that has the pre-outs and features that you require. For your case, how many other speakers will need to be powered in a separate zone, and what speakers are they?

I'm using the same exact speaker for the center in my examples. There is no hiding the fact that I am an advocate of using a center speaker that is identical to the left & right front speakers (and even the surrounds if you could do that, too--depends on the individual situation). This is ideal in the sense that all three speakers would sound the same, especially for those who are sitting on either side of the central viewing position, since a center that is vertically-oriented will not change in sound and sound quality nearly as much as a horizontally-oriented center speaker would. If you want to know why, here is a non-technical description I wrote for another thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415448/2k-budget-for-7-0-speakers-and-avr/0_100#post_22133469

I tried to be as balanced in my view as I could there, but on the other hand I don't like to compromise when I don't have to. There are those who would still say "There is a matching center speaker available, so just use that--duh!" (and there have been people who literally said "duh" ), but in my view "duh" means that they are simply doing "what everybody else does" while ignoring the reality of the matter. In a case like yours, admittedly the loss in sound quality for off-axis viewers would be subtle, but it's still bigger than the differences between speakers of comparable quality, so I don't see why the latter should matter more than the former.

By the way, the HTM-200 SE is a special case, as its tweeter is offset so much that it's sort of partially a vertically-oriented speaker even when its enclosure is oriented horizontally. The NHTs would be preferred, in my view, if you could and would be willing to orient your center speaker vertically (and tilt it), otherwise the HTM-200 SE would be preferred.

I'm running 5 of the NHT SuperZeros in a room about the same size (13x14x9) on a 50 watt/channel AVR. And for movie watching I have plenty of volume. I have the speakers crossed over at 100hz and don't notice any sub localization.

The speakers sound great and disappear once the movie starts. For small speakers they do a really nice job.

+1 on ...

- Your best (safest) option would be front-ported or sealed speakers. In your price range you can't beat NHT for sealed speakers.

- If possible (i.e. it fits/works in your space) three identical speakers LCR is the most desirable.

For a front ported speaker the KEF Q100 and Q300 are both excellent options. The Q300 gets more "press" and is bigger, but the Q100 is also excellent (in the Kef Owners thread several people think the Q100 is actually just a bit more accurate). Accessories4less has b-stock of these, the Q100 is actually a bit cheaper than Absolute Zeros, the Q300 just a little more expensive.

I auditioned the NHT SuperZero, Absolute Zero and Q100 in home. I ended up keeping the Q100s but would easily recommend all three. (If you decide to go sealed/NHT I would probably suggest the Absolute just because it is a little bigger and extends lower than the SuperZero.)

I haven't heard the HTM-200.

People are selling used NHT all the time...

I think you are missing the boat without given Ascend or Aperion a shot...but its your $... my .02 is free though

Amazon is a good place if you must buy new.