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Is Online Delivery Acceptable for Home Theater Use? - Page 2

Poll Results: Is Online Delivery Acceptable for Home Theater Use?

 
  • 11% (38)
    iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are totally acceptable for HT use
  • 7% (25)
    iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are barely acceptable for HT use
  • 11% (37)
    Vudu HDX and Blu-ray are acceptable for HT use, iTunes HD is not
  • 2% (7)
    iTunes HD and Blu-ray are acceptable for HT use, Vudu HDX is not
  • 67% (226)
    Blu-ray is acceptable for HT use, iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are not
333 Total Votes  
post #31 of 171
It seems to me that this exact or similar vote/talking point comes up quite a bit either on web forums like these, or from online "magazines". Over and over, someone wants streaming to be accepted and wants to be the person to first claim that the physical media is dead. I am not saying that this thread is looking to do that, but I think that we are all smart enough to know that a physical disc has its advantages (minus the down-rezed video and down-rexed audio of some rental discs).

Absolute best quality for anyone who wants the best image and sound. I think that most of us are a bit nuts about out systems, so that should (and voting shows) be evident.
No download issues of lag, studdering, down-rezing, internet caps, internet overage fees, etc.
Can take the movie with you if you go to a buddy's house.

There are more, but until the quality is the same or better, and until I can easily stream 40+ GB of data (give or take) at whim for a 2 hour movie, streaming will never stop me from buying a blu-ray.

Now, as far as movies that I don't want to buy, I might stream one of them, but even that is rare.

So if you enjoy streaming, great. It is a great concept that will, someday, get there, but it isn't ready yet. Fancy compression algorithms may *seem* to be like watching a blu-ray, but then again, their very nature and name ("compression" algorithms) give way to letting you know that something has been striped away. Or if you are watching on a modest sized TV from certain distances away, you might not care. That's cool. I am not going to say you can't enjoy it. Please, by all means, love it. Love what your system has and how you use it.
post #32 of 171
Another factor in considering streaming options is one that has nothing to do with the quality of the material and everything to do with availability. I wanted to watch "Lifeforce" the other day and I remember having added it to my Netflix queue about 9 months back. I logged in and sure enough it was absent. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the title is about to get a Blu-ray release and they don't want any competition in distribution channels...

See also: anything to do with "Spartacus" or Starz content; used to be available - not anymore.

In this era of cloud content storage, the rules around who determines how long a particular piece of content is to be made available are often played a bit loose in my opinion.
post #33 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

It seems to me that this exact or similar vote/talking point comes up quite a bit either on web forums like these, or from online "magazines". Over and over, someone wants streaming to be accepted and wants to be the person to first claim that the physical media is dead. I am not saying that this thread is looking to do that, but I think that we are all smart enough to know that a physical disc has its advantages (minus the down-rezed video and down-rexed audio of some rental discs).

Absolute best quality for anyone who wants the best image and sound. I think that most of us are a bit nuts about out systems, so that should (and voting shows) be evident.
No download issues of lag, studdering, down-rezing, internet caps, internet overage fees, etc.
Can take the movie with you if you go to a buddy's house.

There are more, but until the quality is the same or better, and until I can easily stream 40+ GB of data (give or take) at whim for a 2 hour movie, streaming will never stop me from buying a blu-ray.

Now, as far as movies that I don't want to buy, I might stream one of them, but even that is rare.

So if you enjoy streaming, great. It is a great concept that will, someday, get there, but it isn't ready yet. Fancy compression algorithms may *seem* to be like watching a blu-ray, but then again, their very nature and name ("compression" algorithms) give way to letting you know that something has been striped away. Or if you are watching on a modest sized TV from certain distances away, you might not care. That's cool. I am not going to say you can't enjoy it. Please, by all means, love it. Love what your system has and how you use it.

It's worth mentioning that Blu-rays are also compressed and lossy in the video department, just less so. True 12-bit 1080p lossless-compressed video would likely be mistaken for 4K in double-blind tests against Blu-ray. Of course with audio Blu-ray is currently untouchable, you get the same soundtrack that plays in the theaters, no lossy compression whatsoever, simple as that.

The question really is: When will Blu-ray will actually be beaten by a digitally distributed movie? I'm looking forward to the Playstation 4 doing it this year with 4K video. Sure there are a ton of caveats and unknowns regarding Sony's plans, but at some basic level 2013 is the year Blu-ray will likely lose the crown of "best quality format for home theater" to a digitally-distributed offering. So yes, we've seen this kind of poll before but this is the year digital distribution is likely to beat Blu-ray in revenue and quite possibly in quality as well. Two or three years ago, none of the technology was anywhere near where it is today, just look at what you get with a Roku 3 for $99 bucks.
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 12:40pm
post #34 of 171
I got to admit streaming technology has made a lot of waves and lots of progress. But still it does not compare to a well made blu-ray movie. I voted blu-ray only, because my home HT deserves it. After investing on a big screen tv and a kick-ass 7.1 sound system, I'm sorry streaming is not there yet. Specially in bandwidth capacity(But thats more of ISP problem and location) . For watching a series, maybe an old movie from my computer screen yeah i'm ok with streaming. But at home? To watch transformers 3 in 3D? Tron 3d? LOTR extended? all with 7.1 sound tracks?

Sorry blu-ray disc are still the way my brothas!!! lol
post #35 of 171
"Just less so"? True, still the maximum datarate of BD is still 500% compared to the best streaming service currently available right now.

Also the Sony 4K download offering will be at least 100GB per movie (based on a 90-minute movies). Considering most 90min bluray movies are in the 20GB range, 100GB per movie in 4K will be as good as if they're putting it onto a physical media.
post #36 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPMorph View Post

I got to admit streaming technology has made a lot of waves and lots of progress. But still it does not compare to a well made blu-ray movie. I voted blu-ray only, because my home HT deserves it. After investing on a big screen tv and a kick-ass 7.1 sound system, I'm sorry streaming is not there yet. Specially in bandwidth capacity(But thats more of ISP problem and location) . For watching a series, maybe an old movie from my computer screen yeah i'm ok with streaming. But at home? To watch transformers 3 in 3D? Tron 3d? LOTR extended? all with 7.1 sound tracks?

Sorry blu-ray disc are still the way my brothas!!! lol

I want to re-iterate that Vudu HDX 3D is terrible, I was doing comparisons last night with Dredd 3D and Wreck it Ralph 3D. Let me emphasize that again: Vudu HDX 3D is TERRIBLE. No comparison to Blu-ray, it's like comparing NTSC 480i to 1080p, that's how big the gap is. On top of that, if Vudu HDX 3D experiences a glitch in playback, the effect is very jarring and very unpleasant.
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 12:53pm
post #37 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

"Just less so"? True, still the maximum datarate of BD is still 500% compared to the best streaming service currently available right now.

Also the Sony 4K download offering will be at least 100GB per movie (based on a 90-minute movies). Considering most 90min bluray movies are in the 20GB range, 100GB per movie in 4K will be as good as if they're putting it onto a physical media.

Physical media that does not exist today and likely will not exist when the PS4 is released, ergo 2013 is likely the year online delivery beats physical media for total quality.

And yes, true lossless 1080p video would be an equal order of magnitude larger than Blu-ray as Blu-ray is to current download offerings.

The funny thing is that every single angle/argument being made for Blu-ray was made on behalf of film and medium format cameras about a decade ago. There were some pros who absolutely swore that film could never be replaced, that the quality obtainable by using a physical medium would always offer an advantage over digital. Then they switched to arguing on behalf of medium-format digital cameras. Now full-fame DSLRs have just about completely replaced film and medium format digital for pro use, and there's zero chance those platforms will make a comeback, meanwhile people argue whether you really need anything more than the a camera phone.
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 12:50pm
post #38 of 171
Does not exist? Where have you been? BDXL is 100 GB
post #39 of 171
I base price compared to actually going to the movies. And whether it's a Blu Ray I'll enjoy watching more than once. For instance, I can wait for Zero Dark Thirty to sell for just under $ 20.00, considering the tremendous review -

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Zero-Dark-Thirty-Blu-ray/63170/#Review

After all, I have bottles of wine I'm waiting 20 years to drink. Whats a month or two?smile.gif
post #40 of 171
I don't know. I kind of have to put the 100GB download more in the physical media court than online delivery. The advantage to online delivery is immediate on demand consumption. Depending on download speed I might be able to run to walmart and buy a bluray before the 100GB download finishes or even buffers enough for me to start watching without a rebuffer every 5 minutes.
post #41 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Does not exist? Where have you been? BDXL is 100 GB

Then show me a link to a 4K movie distributed on BDXL. I'm familiar with the format, the drive in my HTPC is a BDXL drive.
post #42 of 171
Quote:
Also the Sony 4K download offering will be at least 100GB per movie (based on a 90-minute movies). Considering most 90min bluray movies are in the 20GB range, 100GB per movie in 4K will be as good as if they're putting it onto a physical media.

I'm not holding my breath on this. Seems like 4K makes even more sense on a physical disk. Anyway, I have yet to see a list of what content is going to be available in 4K. I'm giving 4K about 5 years to be ready for prime time IMO. Downloading 4K seems unrealistic for most people.
post #43 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by natedogg661 View Post

I don't know. I kind of have to put the 100GB download more in the physical media court than online delivery. The advantage to online delivery is immediate on demand consumption. Depending on download speed I might be able to run to walmart and buy a bluray before the 100GB download finishes or even buffers enough for me to start watching without a rebuffer every 5 minutes.

Right, but the point is Sony's 4K offering ought to be better than Blu-ray, not just the same thing. The whole argument of the Blu-ray only camp is "nothing but the best for my home theater" and "quality is worth waiting for" so if Sony 4K online delivery is the best, according to that logic there is no choice. With a 100GB download, the key is to pre-order the movie so when release day arrives, it's already downloaded in the background.

Also, unless Wal-mart or Best Buy is right next door to you house, the moment you get into a car to buy a Blu-ray you are spending quite a bit more than just the cost of the Blu-ray in order to acquire it.
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 1:05pm
post #44 of 171
Well duh! You're no longer comparing apple to apple. It's like sayingVuduHDX is better than regular DVD. rolleyes.gif
post #45 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Well duh! You're no longer comparing apple to apple. It's like sayingVuduHDX is better than regular DVD. rolleyes.gif

That's exactly why some people are skipping Blu-ray altogether, going from a DVD player to a Roku, Apple TV, a laptop or tablet hooked up to a TV via HDMI, or a TV with built-in apps... and not looking back. At least we now know you are absolutely certain Vudu HDX looks better than DVD. tongue.gif
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 2:54pm
post #46 of 171
PS: when there is no chice, then there is no argument at all. Even this very second if (say) the life of pi will never be released on Blu-ray, then of course I'll watch it on VuduHDX... Because there is no choice. rolleyes.gif

You keep claiming that you're being neutral but it's clear for anybody with even the most minute grasp of the English language that you want the physical media to be dead so you can say "I told you so" when streaming become the only way to watch movies. rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
post #47 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

PS: when there is no chice, then there is no argument at all. Even this very second if (say) the life of pi will never be released on Blu-ray, then of course I'll watch it on VuduHDX... Because there is no choice. rolleyes.gif

You keep claiming that you're being neutral but it's clear for anybody with even the most minute grasp of the English language that you want the physical media to be dead so you can say "I told you so" when streaming become the only way to watch movies. rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

How am I claiming to be neutral? The poll is neutral. I have my opinions and they are based on clear trends and personal experience including the comparisons I have done.
post #48 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

That's exactly why some people are skipping Blu-ray altogether, going from a DVD player to a Roku, Apple TV, a laptop or tablet hooked up to a TV via HDMI, or a TV with built-in apps... and not looking back. At least we now know know that you are absolutely certain Vudu HDX looks better than DVD. tongue.gif

Another duh! biggrin.gifbiggrin.giftongue.gif but at the same time I don't watch any of my DVD anymore wink.gif
post #49 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

How am I claiming to be neutral? The poll is neutral. I have my opinions.

On the other threads when someone confront you about your neutrality, you calim that you're being neutral and just showing the comparison for the sake of doing a comparison.
post #50 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Any chance you could elaborate on that? Do you mean the Vudu HDX version eliminated the aspect ratio switching, or was it impossible to see the additional detail IMAX renders unless you watch the Blu-ray? Was it both those things? Vudu HDX did not simply omit 72 minutes of the movie, which is how much IMAX footage is used in "The Dark Knight Rises".

Hey Mark - to my eyes it was really both...for sure the aspect ratio during the iMAX scenes did not change. During the first scene with the airplane hijacking, the aspect remained in 2.35 the entire time.
As for detail, I did notice less sharpness in the picture, especially in facial detail, but that could just be due to my connection. Also the sound track sounded much less subdued...much more so the difference you would hear between a DVD soundtrack and bluray. When I put the bluray in and started the same scene, the soundtrack had a huge improvement from VUDU.
post #51 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

On the other threads when someone confront you about your neutrality, you calim that you're being neutral and just showing the comparison for the sake of doing a comparison.

The comparisons are just that, comparisons. Neutrality is achieved through process. Before I ran the first comparison, my opinion was that Blu-ray totally blew away iTunes in terms of quality. I saw that was not the case with Skyfall, and I expect it to be a very interesting year. Let's just say 2013 is the right year to be running these comparisons on an ongoing basis, and to have this discussion about formats and delivery methods. If you can, please find the statement that led to your conclusion and perhaps paste it into a response to this post, I would like to see where I might have caused any confusion. AFAIK only thing I defended in the comparison threads is my technique for performing the comparisons. That, and of course I had to deny being on anybody's payroll, because some people just don't know when to stop being obnoxious.
Edited by imagic - 3/8/13 at 2:35pm
post #52 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarithers View Post

Hey Mark - to my eyes it was really both...for sure the aspect ratio during the iMAX scenes did not change. During the first scene with the airplane hijacking, the aspect remained in 2.35 the entire time.
As for detail, I did notice less sharpness in the picture, especially in facial detail, but that could just be due to my connection. Also the sound track sounded much less subdued...much more so the difference you would hear between a DVD soundtrack and bluray. When I put the bluray in and started the same scene, the soundtrack had a huge improvement from VUDU.

I wish I had a way to quantify the sound difference, but generally speaking I agree that Blu-ray sound is much, much better. The sad thing is that Vudu's Dolby Digital Plus has the potential bandwidth to properly reproduce the soundtrack, but Vudu is using it for maximum compression instead, while still promoting the 7.1 channel capability.
post #53 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I wish I had a way to quantify the sound difference, but generally speaking I agree that Blu-ray sound is much, much better. The sad thing is that Vudu's Dolby Digital Plus has the potential bandwidth to properly reproduce the soundtrack, but Vudu is using it for maximum compression instead, while still promoting the 7.1 channel capability.

I checked Dolby's website for some specs on DDP and it does confirm what I am hearing from VUDU. The bitrate is much lower of even Dolby and DTS...only 256 kbps for broadcast and online.
I agree with Mark, I would much rather have an uncompressed 5.1 track than a 7.1 track with a bitrate that low.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-plus.html
post #54 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Also, unless Wal-mart or Best Buy is right next door to you house, the moment you get into a car to buy a Blu-ray you are spending quite a bit more than just the cost of the Blu-ray in order to acquire it.

You must get bad fuel mileage. tongue.gif
post #55 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by natedogg661 View Post

You must get bad fuel mileage. tongue.gif

I don't own a car, I live in downtown Philly. I pay for immediate access to cabs, rail, Zipcar, bike lanes, and super-fast internet. It costs money to keep a car around, ready to take you to Wal-mart. The cost of driving is more than just gas, that's why hybrids have such a hard time paying for themselves. Then there's the thought of exposing myself to the Wal-Mart experience just to get a movie, when I can get the same thing at home with zero extra cost, time or effort? No thanks. If it's all about impulse buying, online delivery will win. I do bike to Best buy and Wal Mart, BTW, so no extra cost for me.
post #56 of 171
Quote:
Right, but the point is Sony's 4K offering ought to be better than Blu-ray, not just the same thing. The whole argument of the Blu-ray only camp is "nothing but the best for my home theater" and "quality is worth waiting for" so if Sony 4K online delivery is the best, according to that logic there is no choice. With a 100GB download, the key is to pre-order the movie so when release day arrives, it's already downloaded in the background.

At this exact point in time, a Sony 4K download is still just a future possibility. Hopefully there will be 4K content ( that somebody actually wants to watch ).
Quote:
Also, unless Wal-mart or Best Buy is right next door to you house, the moment you get into a car to buy a Blu-ray you are spending quite a bit more than just the cost of the Blu-ray in order to acquire it.

Ya, it costs me $ 2.98. I buy them online from Amazon. smile.gif
post #57 of 171
For people with 100" screens or bigger we definitely need 4k and I agree that a new physical format will be needed as downloading a 100GB file is unrealistic at best and impossible at worst.
post #58 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky08016 View Post

Not for me!! I'll gladly wait in order to get the best possible presentation of a movie. Right now that's Blu-ray but I have no doubt that online delivery of HD content will catch up. Maybe not in the near future but it will catch up and surpass.

Exactly. I've already waited 3 months for the Blu-ray, what's another couple weeks? So many movie releases sneak up on you. They come out in the theater, you know you want to watch it, then you forget about it, then all of a sudden they get released on Blu-ray. There is always something to watch. It's the reason why I never watch most movies more than once. I barely have enough time to catch up on all the new movies I want to see.
post #59 of 171
While I do believe bluray has the best pq and aq, I also would like to say I feel proud of my collection when I see it on the shelfs. I would not even remotely feel the same when that collection would just be a text list on some device. I like to own the fysical object.

Probably a sign I am getting old...
post #60 of 171
I sure am glad that people still purchase movies but I will never understand the logic behind it. After I watch a good movie, even a great movie, I have ZERO interest in ever watching it again.
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