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YPAO crossover setting?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I have NHT VT-2 main speakers that have built in 10" subs that I bi-amp with a Yamaha 861 and Parasound HCA1200ii amp. When I run the YPAO it always sets the crossover to 200hz when my manual states the crossover for my speakers is 125hz. Any reason it is choosing 200hz? Should I leave it or change it? Thanks.
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
No help? Should I post this somewhere else maybe?
post #3 of 11
Is the sub downstream with its own crossover and hence transparent to the Yamaha? If so, then set the speakers to large. Don't let it insert another crossover into the path.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure how its wired. It is a tower speaker with side firing sub and separate high and low speaker connectors. The low (sub) powered by the parasound amp that is fed from the subwoofer output (y connector) of the Yamaha. Main speakers are set to small with bass and lfe set to subwoofer out.
post #5 of 11
Let's see if I understand. Each speaker has it's own internal crossover, but it gives you the option of not using that, but instead using the large drivers separately. And that's what you're doing. But the receiver wants to use a different crossover point than the speakers themselves were set at. Right? If so, since crossovers differ in detail, and since the best crossover point might be different depending on the crossover filters, I'd guess you'd be better off using the receiver's choice for crossover point, since you're using the receiver's crossover filters.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Well, I've since tried to simplify my setup and use my amp to power my towers full range. It really sounds nice. I can now use the pure direct mode for music. The sound is smooth, dynamic, and less fatiguing.
However, there is a noticeable drop in bass. I don't know why, but my speakers had WAY more bass before. Any help?
post #7 of 11
I really don't understand exactly how those speakers work, but if you have them set up so that the subwoofers are connected to the receiver's subwoofer output only, and if you set your receiver to "pure direct" (telling it not to use bass management), then the subwoofers are not getting used at all. That would explain why you hear less bass.

(If you can use the subs inside your fronts separately, I don't understand how the receiver's signal to the sub(s) gets amplified. Do the fronts contain amplifiers for the subs? Or maybe you have separate amplifiers?)
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
There are two sets of speaker connections, one for the sub and one for the midrange/tweeters. At first I had the receiver powering the mid/tweeter while using the subwoofer out to my parasound amp then to the subwoofer speaker connector. Now, I am using a jumper to bridge the subwoofer and mid/tweeter speaker connector. I use the main L & R pre-outs from the receiver to my amp, then to my speakers so that they are set to "large" with all bass directed to them in my receiver setup. Now my receiver is only powering my center and surrounds and my amp is powering my mains "full-range"

I hope that clears up my setup. I would think that using a 250W/ channel amp for my "full range" speakers would produce adequate bass. My speakers -3dB point is 25Hz, so it should sound fine. And when the subs were being powered separately by my amp, the bass was great.

I can only guess that when they were powered separately and I was using the sub out, that the YPAO was setting the sub TOO LOUD and I got used to it. Either that, or something is not right now with either my wiring or something else.

Thanks for helping!smile.gif
post #9 of 11
It beats me. When you set up your receiver for this current arrangement, you did tell the receiver that you don't have a sub? There are two subs, right? One inside each of the fronts? Is their bass performance the same? (If not, maybe their inputs are filtered and a filter is no longer working correctly.)
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Well, I've since tried to simplify my setup and use my amp to power my towers full range. It really sounds nice. I can now use the pure direct mode for music. The sound is smooth, dynamic, and less fatiguing.
However, there is a noticeable drop in bass. I don't know why, but my speakers had WAY more bass before. Any help?

I downloaded the speaker's user manual from http://www.nhthifi.com/ServiceCenter/VT and it explains quite a bit.

Your speakers, as you seem to grasp correctly have two modes of operation. The simplest way to use them is to jumper the two sets of banana jacks together and use it like it was a ordinary more-or-less full range speaker.

A possibly improved way to use them is to remove the jumper which requires the use of a second power amplifier connected to the subwoofer output of your AVR. One complication of this is that the speaker has some kind of a crossover inside of it that is always affecting the operation of both parts of the speaker. The subwoofer has some kind of low pass filter, and the upper range drivers have some kind of high pass filter and both filters are permanently wired in.

This makes the use of your speakers with a modern AVR more complex because there has to be some kind of coordination between the crossovers in the AVR and the crossovers in the speaker.

I see multiple references where NHT says that the speaker's internal crossover is 125 Hz, so I understand your consternation when YPAO comes up with a 200 Hz crossover.

One possibility is that NHT built a different speaker than they say they did which would not be much of a problem if used as they seem to have intended in the early 2000's when it was introduced. For example the permanent low pass filter on the semi-subwoofer may interfere with LFE usage if @ 125 Hz. Raising the crossover frequency would improve the dynamic range of the midrange speaker driver in the system.

Another possibility is that your room's acoustics are affecting what YPAO's microphones pick up in such a way that YPAO is getting a different idea about what the speakers are like.

As others have pointed out, using your AVR in direct mode may pretty well kill the subwoofer output of your AVR unless it is used with a source that itself has 5.1 analog outputs, such as some more expensive blu ray players.

It may be that your speakers are mismatched enough to a modern environment that using them as plain old full range speakers with the jumpers in place and avoiding the use of an outboard amplifier may be your best idea.

You could then add another subwoofer to exploit the bass management of your AVR, which could be a good idea. The 10" so-called subwoofer in the VT-2 is not very substantial by modern standards. Your outboard power amp may end up being excess.

It may also be true that your system could work if you hooked your power amp to the front L & R outputs jacks on your AVR instead of the subwoofer output, set your speakers for large, and adjusted the gain controls of your HCA 1200 amplifier for desired bass balance. This would put the passive crossovers in your speakers into the driver's seat where they may belong. This would not give you a lot of benefit in terms of offloading your AVR. and the benefits may not offset the extra complexity.
Edited by arnyk - 3/20/13 at 8:55am
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the help. I have found a fix, for now. I am still using the amp to drive my mains as full range. I used the receivers tone control to raise the bass to +4. This sounds much better, the only problem is I can't use pure mode as it defeats tone control. Anyway, I'm using straight and everything seems fine. I also re-ran YPAO and chose natural instead of flat. It still chose a 200Hz crossover and labeled my center as large and the mains as out of phase. I changed the center to small and the crossover to 120Hz. Just watched The Hobbit and it sounds really good. I guess I will leave everything as is for now. Thanks again.
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