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UPS vs expensive A/V power conditioner? - Page 2

post #31 of 40
3/18/13 at 7:57am
Multi-tap transformers are helpful but in many regards (for electronics), a placebo. Innovolt at one time had the documentation on their site about the damage caused as a result of voltage fluctuations (Georgia Tech research). We have seen this many times...more frequently in homes with back-up generators.

http://www.innovolt.com/problem
http://downloads.avaya.com/css/P8/documents/003678886
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post #32 of 40
3/18/13 at 10:12am
Quote:
Do you know who makes the transformer in the IsoCenter?
IsoCenter (Middle Atlantic) and ExactPower are now the same company ... if that provides a clue.
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post #33 of 40
4/13/13 at 11:17am
A while back I found the following transformer + online UPS combo unit:

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/paragon-series/OL8000RT3UTF.html

Step-down transformer, 7200W of power, sine wave output, rack-mountable, 5 minute run-time at full load (and, you can add additional battery packs), user hot-swappable batteries, and relatively inexpensive at $5600 MSRP, available for around $4K retail.

Curious if you guys have any thoughts on whether this is likely to work well for home theater, or if it's better suited for computing equipment and the like.
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post #34 of 40
4/13/13 at 8:27pm
You would have to measure it to find out. A lot of the computer UPSs even the expensive ones put put out a lot of noise. There are good ones and bad ones.
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post #35 of 40
4/14/13 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

You would have to measure it to find out. A lot of the computer UPSs even the expensive ones put put out a lot of noise. There are good ones and bad ones.

You mean, audible noise, or electrical noise in the sine wave?

If audible noise, not an issue for me, since the equipment rack is far outside of the theater.

If electrical noise, the specs at least claim less than 5% total harmonic distortion. No idea if that's good enough or not though.

Thanks for your advice. Anything else to be aware of? Any idea if components like this are safe for residential use?
Edited by aligborat - 4/14/13 at 6:30am
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post #36 of 40
4/14/13 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligborat View Post

You mean, audible noise, or electrical noise in the sine wave?

If audible noise, not an issue for me, since the equipment rack is far outside of the theater.

If electrical noise, the specs at least claim less than 5% total harmonic distortion. No idea if that's good enough or not though.

Thanks for your advice. Anything else to be aware of? Any idea if components like this are safe for residential use?

5% is rather good these days. Commercial power can be worse than.

As long as the unit is UL, ETL, or CSA listed, it should be safe for residential use. I know all the major UPS brands are. That is Liebert,APC, Triplite, Cyberpower.

WHAT IS NOT UL LISTED, are some of the "audiophile" power conditioners. The more expensive units are usually not listed by any safety agency as the charlatans in this business segment tend to be at the highest price point. I WOULD BE CAREFUL HERE.

I always enjoy throwing that in the face of these guys when at stereo shows or when inside a store where they are demoing. "So certified customer electrical safety isn't important to you?"
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post #37 of 40
5/22/13 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

The only legitimate reason for a "audiophile" grade power conditioner is looks. Computer UPS units are ugly! So if you like brushed aluminum trim and fancy blue LED displays get an audiophile unit.

If you are serious about power protection just get a Home Depot surge strip. It will do everything an expensive audiophile power conditioner does except look sexy in your rack.

If you have seperate high power amplifiers, do not plug these into surge protectors. Big high power amps are basically immune to power spikes because their power supplies are well, big and tough. An AV receiver is a quandary because while the computer processing circuits will benefit from power line filtering, the power amp section will not. Line filters restrict current spikes and in turn they can limit the dynamics of high power amps.

As for UPS units, they are great for satellite, CATV boxes, media servers but not so much for AV gear. Most of the cheaper units output highly distorted waveforms when running on battery instead of the relatively clean 60hz sinewave the utility supplies. This is OK for TVs, DVD players, and other "digital gear" but not suitable for fine audio gear with linear power supplies. You can get pure sinewave UPS units but they start at over $1000.

I am glad you brought this up as I am currently needing help with implementation. I have 3 Carver Lightstar 2.0 amps that have large Plitron transformers in them. I also have a 60" plasma tv and a new Marantz AV8801 preamp. My question for you is....can I plug everything into a http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR3000LCDRT2U.html or smaller unit and not have any negative effects on sound or dynamics. The UPS's are pure sine wave and Line Interactive Topology.

The reasons I am interested in plugging all of them into this unit are for ground loop hum issue, power surges and protection. I live in Pensacola FL and the weather is quite dynamic sometimes which can cause power issues. I have lived here for about 6 months and there have been many power surges where the UPS's on my servers kick in.

The reason I chose CyberPower is that I get them 50% off of MSRP....for me only.

If this is not a good choice then what would be? I do have a degree and many years of experience in electronics although it has been a while.

Thanks for your help in advance.
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post #38 of 40
5/22/13 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

I have 3 Carver Lightstar 2.0 amps

So they do exist. I was looking for them a long time ago but no dealer could get them for me back in the day. You ever sell...let me know.
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post #39 of 40
5/23/13 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

I have 3 Carver Lightstar 2.0 amps that have large Plitron transformers in them. I also have a 60" plasma tv and a new Marantz AV8801 preamp. My question for you is....can I plug everything into a http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR3000LCDRT2U.html or smaller unit and not have any negative effects on sound or dynamics.

I believe the Carvers are SMPS amplifiers, which typically places less demands on voltage fluctuation, yet higher demands for quality, garbage free line voltage. Amp design isn't my forte, but it's odd they've got a toroid. However Carver is a trick power supply pioneer, and knows more than just about anybody about their design. Plitron is the best, so that's good.

Question is will it squash dynamics,...yes, absolutely, it sure could .. depending on the application (mains, subs, surrounds), the load, and of course how spirited the playback levels are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

The reasons I am interested in plugging all of them into this unit are for ground loop hum issue, power surges and protection. I live in Pensacola FL and the weather is quite dynamic sometimes which can cause power issues. I have lived here for about 6 months and there have been many power surges where the UPS's on my servers kick in.

Be mindful, a proper grounding scheme can be achieved in other ways too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

If this is not a good choice then what would be?

Of the commercially available products, I like the Plitron based products the best, .. of those I like Torus RM series. But, their price is commensurate to their performance mad.gif

If you're so inclined to roll your own, there's mucho info out there as well. If interested, hit me up, I've been into DIY iso protection for a very long time.
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post #40 of 40
5/23/13 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

I am glad you brought this up as I am currently needing help with implementation. I have 3 Carver Lightstar 2.0 amps that have large Plitron transformers in them. I also have a 60" plasma tv and a new Marantz AV8801 preamp. My question for you is....can I plug everything into a http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR3000LCDRT2U.html or smaller unit and not have any negative effects on sound or dynamics. The UPS's are pure sine wave and Line Interactive Topology.

The reasons I am interested in plugging all of them into this unit are for ground loop hum issue, power surges and protection. I live in Pensacola FL and the weather is quite dynamic sometimes which can cause power issues. I have lived here for about 6 months and there have been many power surges where the UPS's on my servers kick in.

The reason I chose CyberPower is that I get them 50% off of MSRP....for me only.

If this is not a good choice then what would be? I do have a degree and many years of experience in electronics although it has been a while.

Thanks for your help in advance.

CyberPower are good units. I would rate them right under APC and Liebert which are the higher end commercial units. If your carver amps do have big linear power transformers, then they really don't need any further protection. Big linear unregulated power amp supplies are very tough.

As for grounding problems a properly wired UPS that is UL, CSA, or ETL listed, will not in most cases fix a ground loop. The reason is the power ground is carried through the unit from input to output. Where it might fix a hum problem is where combining all the power grounds at the UPS somehow cancels a ground loop. But this is impossible to say without seeing your setup.

But your TV, satellite receiver, preamp/processor, Bluray, would all be well served running from a UPS like the CyberPower especially in heavy lightning areas.
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